In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.
Dear parents,
You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.
They say that measles isn’t a deadly disease.
But it is.
They say that chickenpox isn’t that big of a deal.
But it can be.
They say that the flu isn’t dangerous.
But it is.
They say that whooping cough isn’t so bad for kids to get.
But it is.
They say that vaccines aren’t that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children’s lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.
They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.
They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine. For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.
They will say that doctors won’t admit there are any side effects to vaccines.
But the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.
They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
It doesn’t. (The question of whether vaccines cause autism has been investigated in study after study, and they all show overwhelming evidence that they don’t.)
They say that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism.
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t been in most vaccines since 2001 anyway.
They say that the aluminum in vaccines (an adjuvant, or component of the vaccine designed to enhance the body’s immune response) is harmful to children.
But children consume more aluminum in natural breast milk than they do in vaccines, and far higher levels of aluminum are needed to cause harm.
They say that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (and/or the “vaccine court”) proves that vaccines are harmful.
It doesn’t.
They say that the normal vaccine schedule is too difficult for a child’s immune system to cope with.
It isn’t.
They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.
This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.
They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine.
They aren’t.
The truth is that vaccines are one of our greatest public health achievements, and one of the most important things you can do to protect your child.
I can predict exactly the sort of response I will be getting from the anti-vaccine activists. Because they can’t argue effectively against the overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines, they will say that I work for Big Pharma. (I don’t and never have). They will say that I’m not a scientist (I am), and that I’m an “Agent 666” (I don’t know what that is, but I’m pretty sure that I’m not one).
None of these things are true, but they are the reflexive response by the anti-vaccine activists because they have no facts to back up their position. On some level, deep down, they must understand this, and are afraid of the implications, so they attack the messenger.
Why are they lying to you? Some are doing it for profit, trying to sell their alternative remedies by making you afraid of science-based medicine. I’m sure that many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful. But as a certain astrophysicist recently said “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”. In the case of vaccine truthers, this is not a good thing. Good intentions will not prevent microbes from infecting and harming people, and the message that vaccines are dangerous is having dire consequences. There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.
In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learn what the scientific community says. Learn how the immune system works. Go read about the history of disease before vaccines, and talk to older people who grew up when polio, measles, and other diseases couldn’t be prevented. Go read about how vaccines are developed, and how they work. Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked. Read the numerous, huge studies that have explicitly examined whether autism is caused by the vaccine…and found nothing. (While you’re at it, read about the ongoing research to determine what IS the cause—or causes —of autism, which is not helped by people continuing to insist that vaccines cause it).
That may seem like a lot of work, and scientific papers can seem intimidating to read. But reading scientific articles is a skill that can be mastered. Here’s a great resource for evaluating medical information on the internet, and I wrote a guide for non-scientists on how to read and understand the scientific literature. You owe it to your children, and to yourself, to thoroughly investigate the issue. Don’t rely on what some stranger on the internet says (not even me!). Read the scientific studies that I linked to in this post for yourself, and talk to your pediatricians. Despite what the anti-vaccine community is telling you, you don’t need to be afraid of the vaccines. You should instead be afraid of what happens without them.
Edited to add: This video is an outstanding summary of many of these issues. I encourage you to watch it.
“Humans try to make sense of the world by seeing patterns. When they see a disease or condition that tends to appear around the time a child is a year or so old, as autism does, and that is also the age that kids get particular shots, they want to put those things together. Parents watch kids more carefully after they get shots. Sometimes they pick up on symptoms then. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean that one caused the other. This is why we need careful scientific studies.”
Note: For people coming via a direct link, please also feel free to participate in a follow-up discussion
here.
1/13/15: Edited to update broken hyperlinks. If you find any additional broken links, please don’t hesitate to let me know. –JR
4/19/16: Edited again to update more broken hyperlinks. If you find more, keep letting us know and we’ll keep fixing them. –CM
Violent metaphors 
Yes darlings I had POLIO. Yet I walk. No longer painlessly Have some problems who my age doesn’t. At least it’s not cancer, diabetes, Gauches, asthma and 20 other things. I and my children had measles, Gr. measles, chicken pox and no one is the worse for wear. I rolled all over my Dad when he had Scarlet Fever. Never got it. No Mono in our house we ate too healthy. You know ORGANIC Food. My brothers came into my bed the night before they got the mumps. My eldest had a mild case…nothing happened to me.
Get real these diseases are not dangerous if you are bedded down and cared for while you go through it. Even I who dragged one leg after Polio went off to school two months later with a new gait and within a few years I was a modern dancer full of great energy and athletic prowess.
Do not let the scare mongers scare you.
Occasionally, very occasionally, one comes across a post that is so stupid the only appropriate response is fuck off. This is one of those times.
Fuck off, Laeh.
Actually. from what I read, that has been your thoughtful response to everyone who doesn’t agree with you. Why you bother, I have no idea.
Polio does have a high mortality rate. Just because you were lucky enough to have a mild infection (as did I) doesn’t mean that other healthy individuals will be so lucky. There were several children at the school I attended back in the mid to late 1950s that had withered and unusable limbs due to polio, and I can assure you that they had as good as, or better, care than I had.
Did this really happened? (20th line) ”For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.” Tested on 37,868 children …seriously?
Yes! REALLY! Educate yourself about how studies like this are carried out and their results compiled before you just completely discount their findings. Ignorance is a choice, and a very unattractive one at that.
One of the more important concepts that ANYONE needs to understand is that of ‘CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.’ Coincidences exist, even within the field of science. Correlation does not PROVE anything. It is an impetus to research the co-occurring events to see if there is indeed any real link between the two.. But just because they happen at the same time does NOT automatically mean that they are a cause-and-effect duo.
I don’t have a problem with people not vaccinating their children, but they should be refused healthcare for any illness that can be prevented by vaccines. Their choice. Either the illness is a problem, or not.
Great post. As a pediatrician who’s spent extensive time working in the US and overseas and has seen children die from EVERY disease (except small pox) for which there is a vaccine I am appalled at the lack of education by the general public on the vaccine issue. This is my rant:
I had two unvaccinated children in the US die from whooping cough, one from tetanus, and 2 from meningitis in the past few years. Perhaps this reflects our country’s generally poor understanding of math and science in general. A recent large study in the US showed that no matter how scientists try to educate US parents about disease and disease prevention, whether it is vaccines or hand washing, parents simply cannot follow the logic. It’s devastating to see children die from preventable disease and despicable that it is happening here. I would like to know why those who’s children end up in the PICU with tetanus or whooping cough now trust us to save the life of their child? Why do you run to a doctor when you are terrified your child has tetanus after refusing to vaccinate? (Tetanus is everywhere in the environment, by the way.) Why am I now competent to save your child’s life when they have meningitis or epiglottis, but I wasn’t competent enough to keep them from getting sick? Perhaps if I wasn’t here to clean up after your bad decisions you’d think more clearly about vaccines. If there was no medical help for your unvaccinated child if they acquired a vaccine preventable illness would you think about vaccinating? If you’re not willing to run to your anti-vaccine friend, treat your child with advice from non-scientific sites on the internet, go to your chiropractor, or your holistic healer with your dying child perhaps you shouldn’t be taking their advice about vaccines. I’ll also note that not only do we get NO “kick backs” from “big pharma” for vaccinating, but we also get no “kick backs” for staying up for 48 hours straight, comforting you when your child isn’t doing well, softening the information that you may have given the infection to them, working any day at any time so they get better, and assuring that your child doesn’t give it everyone else including ourselves. On a side note: wouldn’t “big pharma” prefer if everyone got the disease so they could sell expensive medication to treat it multiple times? Educate yourself, do some math, self-reflect, go watch a child die from a vaccine preventable disease and try to explain to the parent why you don’t vaccinate-do whatever you need to do so your child and other children aren’t dying in my ICU because of YOU (or perhaps you’re also smart enough to treat them on your own).
I used to be a vaccine believer simply because I *knew* on a very superficial level vaccines prevent disease. I had never researched them before, but that’s what we hear as a general knowledge topic.
When I started working in pediatrics, the shear number of parents calling in terrified about their children’s behavior after being vaccinated and the doctors’ dismissive attitude to their concerns peaked my interests. I started asking questions to the drug reps when they came in and they either full on said they didn’t know the answer, there was no data, or made a generic (false) statement about the vaccine. Then I was told by the doctors NOT to ask questions. All they need to know is the insurance reimbursement amount.
As time when on, I noticed we were constantly seeing patients for sick visits shortly after they received shots. I ran a report using our billing software and found over 80% (I believe it was 82.something%) of the children who received shots came back for a sick visit within 10 days. These were upper respiratory infections, coughs, fevers, eat infections…..overall just sick stuff. Of course children get sick, but I found the high proportion soon after getting shots interesting.
During my time in pediatrics, while I did work for doctor who DID accept non vaccinating families, I also saw how staff were instructed to LIE about vaccines being required for school and daycare for financial reasons. The difference between the insurance reimbursement for a fully vaccinated early childhood visit and a vaccine free well child visit was $400+ vs. about $50.
There were a handful of times patients had severe enough and immediate enough reactions to vaccines 911 was called. One that stands out in particular was when an obnoxiously outspoken pro-vaccine mom brought in her 12 year old son against her husbands wishes for his first HPV shot. While checking out at the front desk, within about 20 minutes of his shot, the boy fell to the ground and had a seizure lasting about 3 minutes. It ended just before the paramedics arrived. He spent a couple days in a coma and just over a week in the hospital. Another time a 2 month old baby girl left the office after her shots and was rushed back into the office by her parents not 10 minutes later. She had completely stopped breathing. The ambulance was called, CPR and oxygen given. She did not die, but was severely brain damaged after that.
VAERS is an important tool and doctors are REQUIRED by law to report ALL possible vaccine reactions. They don’t. Many, many, times I asked the doctors if/how/when they would be filing the report. I even asked how I should get the reports started for them to make them less time consuming and (when they actually know what VAERS was) always sort of scoffed and dismissed it.
While my experiences and time spent researching make me confident in never vaccinating myself of children, I am not “anti” vaccines. I believe in informed choice. My risk factors for certain diseases may be different than yours. Your experiences may be more on the danger of diseases than danger of the vaccine.
I am “anti” 3 commonly held beliefs of many people who are adamantly pro vaccine:
The belief that vaccines are mandatory to attend school/daycare. Exemptions are available.
That non vaccinated people are walking biohazards and need to be avoided at all costs. (The majority of the adult population is under or non vaccinated based on the current vaccine schedule)
The refusal to acknowledge that vaccine injures can and do happen and that they can be devastating and far more expensive, dangerous and deadly than many of the vaccine preventable diseases.
Fascinating and heartbreaking.
“I ran a report using our billing software and found over 80% (I believe it was 82.something%) of the children who received shots came back for a sick visit within 10 days.”
Eight out of ten vaccinated children became so sick within ten days that they had to return to the doctor? That is an astonishing number. If it’s true, it makes me wonder how such incredible results could possibly be concealed from the public; doctors would have to be in on the conspiracy, as well as researchers, nurses, billing coders, and pretty much every patient-facing medical caregiver I can think of.
I’m truly so very appreciative that you shared this perspective. No doubt I’ll read on and see people try to poke holes in your story – I wish they only did that nearly so much when it came to reviewing what confirmed their beliefs.
To me, these are facts. Facts from one health practitioner with some insider knowledge about some of the things we worry about as parents, as outsiders.
Thank you. Please know no matter who disagrees with you, this was an important perspective to share. I hope you’ll share it elsewhere.
No wonder so many people are undecided and confused on this topic. Senseless name calling on both sides. Everyone should just act like responsible adults and have a debate. I wonder how many of you would be proud of you actions and comments if all your children saw how you act on the internet. I guess bullying is not just a problem with children. Wow. Proud to be apart of this civil discussion. Not. There is a lot of evidence for both sides, if you take the time to read it. Must be nice to think you have all the answers and are making the 100% correct decision.
Well it looks like the anti-vaccine crowd just destroyed this blog like always. The anti-vaccine crowd is, by far, way more informed and educated than the needle pushers.
Don’t you think the parents of children dying in underdeveloped countries whose children are dying from diseases for which the developed countries have vaccines wouldn’t do anything they could to obtain these vaccines for their children? These parents must be smarter than the anti-vaccines radicals in developed countries..
Actually no, they so NOT want vaccines as they observe that they CAUSE western diseases and disorders. Like recently, they shot polio pushers… Google it.
The anti-vaccine crowd is not more informed and educated than those that support them. Medical doctors are more informed and educated on the human body than people who are not – and medical doctors are very supportive of vaccines.
Like
then why do more then 60% of medical doctors do NOT vaccinate themselves????
Got any evidence to back that up??
Because that’s not true, and you’re a liar.
Way to take it
to a nastier level in just eight words. What must your world be like ?
It’s a world where science talks and bullshit walks. You probably wouldn’t like it.
There are more people in the world’s countries where people do not have access to vaccines (I.e. Tanzania, Somalia etc..) therefore you will find many more doctors who they themselves have not had access. I would look at this statistic and ask, “of all those Drs who are not vaccinated who would have wanted to if given the money and resource?” Unfortunately, being a doctor somewhere in Pemba, for example, does not mean that that doctor has wealth and access.
I think you need to check your research. Maybe even look at a credible evidenced based source that is peer reviewed. Doctors, nurses and health care professionals alike must be Sero-converted to Hepatitis B in order to practice. The only way to sero-convert is through vaccination. It is a pre-requisite of employment. Every year, I can guarantee you that the majority of health care professionals, teachers or anyone who is in contact with children will opt for the flu vaccination which changes seasonally. Also rendering your point invalid!
People who are anti-vaccination cause more harm and are essentially selfish. Would you walk over a bridge that is deemed 0.1% unsafe and 99.9% safe by the engineer? There are people out there who are immunocomprimised and are unable to be vaccinated. Don’t do it for yourself, do it for everyone else, especially for the one’s who can’t be!
As someone who will be an MD in 5 more weeks, This last post is spot on. If you want to be in the health care industry, you get vaccines. I’ve never heard of this stat, but a moment of thought could provide a simple explanation…many vaccines are to cover childhood illnesses. If an older doc never had that vaccine before, it would be useless now because they already were exposed to it as a child. So yes, they never would have received it. Others, such as hepatitis and chicken pox, you have to prove you have immunity to. Again, if you were exposed to developed immunity prior to the vaccines being available, you don’t have to get it.
it is because the pro-choice and anti-vacs as you call us are much more educated than the doctors and pro-vac sheeple are about vaccination. We want to know the facts and truth and not what the pharmaceuticals teach you so that the pharmaceuticals and physicians benefit at our expense. The myth of herd immunity is clearly explained in these two articles
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/07/05/herd-immunity-the-flawed-science-and-failures-of-mass-vaccination-suzanne-humphries-md-3/
http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/herd-immunity-from-vaccination-is-a-myth-by-dr-russell-blaylock-md/#.U0AHYVfLJ8c
You can learn more at
The CDC states that an average of 10% of sheeple who receive vaccination do not develop an antibody http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm
How effective are vaccines?
Research Efficacy – The ability to provoke an antibody. The science of vaccines is based on research efficacy not clinical efficacy
Clinical efficacy – The ability to prevent an infection which is associated with cellular immunity, your T and B cells, not antibodies.
The only fact the pharmaceuticals know is that we may develop an antibody from a vaccination and not immunity along with it.
Dr. John March is Head of Mycoplasmology at the Moredun Research Institute (MRI), Edinburgh Vaccine development; molecular biologist where they study vaccines on animals said “Human trials generally correlate “antibody” responses with protection – that is if the body produces antibodies (proteins) which bind to vaccine components, then it must be working and safe. Dr March says “antibody response is generally a poor measure of protection and no indicator at all of safety. Particularly for viral diseases, the ‘cellular’ immune response is all important, and antibody levels and protection are totally unconnected.”
In addition to their toxic composition, the second problem with vaccinations is that they stimulate the wrong immune system. In my opinion, this is the greatest threat to our immune system that we have ever faced. You see, when a virus, parasites, or cancer cells threaten your body, they will activate an immune response called a Th1 (cell-mediated) response. This is your body’s first line of defense, which will then stimulate a Th2 response (humoral). The Th2 is an emergency response which produces antibodies that resolve inflammation so that healing can continue. The problem is that childhood vaccinations or flu shots stimulate the Th2 response, not the Th1, thus violating the natural sequence. This violation has serious consequences. First, when you stimulate a Th1 response, you produce a lifetime immunity; however, when you vaccinate, you need boosters every 3 to 5 years because the Th2 is stimulated first. In other words, you do not have a lifetime immunity.
Another danger in violating the Th2 response sequence is that it teaches your immune system to over-react with the wrong defenses, thus producing a high antibody count which then leads to temporary immunity. When the over reaction (the emergency responses) is repeated again and again, the immune system is now educated to respond in this way. This only confuses the body and drives the diseases internally deeper, thereby causing chronic diseases later in life. Top scientists have said that we are exchanging childhood diseases, which actually strengthen our immune system, for diseases like cancer and autoimmune problems.
Your comment “Doctors, nurses and health care professionals alike must be Sero-converted to Hepatitis B in order to practice. The only way to sero-convert is through vaccination. It is a pre-requisite of employment.” is not accurate where I live. I’ve worked in a multi hospital/clinic organization for the last 3 years. We are NOT required to be vaccinated for Hep B. It is not a pre-requisite in any way. We either get the vaccination or we sign a waiver an opt out. I worked in another healthcare facility the three years prior to that and the same rules applied.
It may be a rule where you live, but certainly not everywhere.
Great post Jon! Thank you
You say, “People who are anti-vaccination cause more harm and are essentially selfish. Would you walk over a bridge that is deemed 0.1% unsafe and 99.9% safe by the engineer?”
My reply, “Would you get in a car where the brakes fail 10% of the time and you can’t sue the manufacturer to recoup your medical costs?”
The federal government has granted the vaccine industry total immunity from ever having to face the legal system for its crimes against humanity. Nonsense!
On February 22, 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court shielded drug companies from ALL liability for harm caused by vaccines mandated by government.
Drug companies selling vaccines in America will not be held accountable by a jury of our peers in a court of law if those vaccines brain damage us. Yes, adults too. if you get paralyzed by a flu shot or your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine required for school and becomes learning disabled, epileptic, autistic, asthmatic, diabetic or mentally retarded, you are on your own. Essentially, you are screwed.
“The federal government has granted the vaccine industry total immunity from ever having to face the legal system for its crimes against humanity. Nonsense!
On February 22, 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court shielded drug companies from ALL liability for harm caused by vaccines mandated by government.”
This is at least the second time that you (or at least, someone named Anonymous) has posted essentially the exact same comment. As I’ve written before, it’s not true. The Supreme Court held that Congress foreclosed *one type* of products liability suit against vaccine manufacturers; the other two major categories (defective manufacture and failure to warn) are still possible.
And liability exemptions are hardly unprecedented. It’s how workers’ comp works, for example. The post office also enjoys such immunity; you can’t sue them for losing or breaking a package. But they, like vaccine makers, actually have a great track record. The results are what matter.
They didn’t know they were going to be doctors when they were children, and it is the Parents who make that decision. Perhaps you meant they do not vaccinate their own children?
70% of statistics are made up on the spot
60 out of 40 people believe things without researching :p
XD yes!
Because their good parents did it for them when they were children
I’d like to see a few dozen links to support that. And not http://www.stupidpeoplebelievethisconspiracytheory.org (for sarcastic example)
Vaccination for MMR among doctors is close to 100%, as it is for all of the childhood vaccinations.
You may be confused because vaccination rate for doctors against flu is substantially lower- about 87% – http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6138a1.htm
Still, none of those figures are even close to being as low as 60%. Most medical practices require all staff to be fully vaccinated so that statistic doesn’t pass even the most cursory logical inspection.
Thanks for the fact-checking.
That’s not true!! I’m a nurse, it’s a REQUIREMENT for any nursing or health program and a lot of hospitals require them to work there. A lot even require a yearly flu shot. So show we the study where they found this info….
I agree with getting vaccinated but I have to correct you I am a nurse as well and it is not a requirement for employment to get vaccinated. All you have to do is sign papers that you choose not to be vaccinated. But you have to really be nuts to not want to be vaccinated when you work in the health field.
I’m not saying your wrong or right on this because i don’t know if doctors vaccinate themselves, I’m just wondering where you got this 60 percentage from. Did you actually read it somewhere or are you pulling a percentage out of your head? And if you did read it somewhere or someone did tell you this i would like to know where and/or who.
I’m studying to be a health professional. I have a pretty extensive list of vaccines I had to have before I was allowed in clinic. I’m going to guess that percentage is a lot closer to 0%.
Nonsense
another made up statistic….
ummmm, ITS A REQUIREMENT TO EVEN ATTEND MEDICAL SCHOOL! Medical schools take vaccinations so seriously, that in addition to getting the vaccines, you also have to get antibody titers to prove you have immunity from the vaccines. (I would know, I went through medical school). People like you are part of the problem. Maybe have a little clue of what you’re talking about before you spread your retarded bullshit
Many are not!!! I’ve personally spoken with medical professionals including doctors that have some scary stories about things they’ve seen happen to kids and adults after certain shots! I don’t care to be right or wrong – just safe in decision making. I say no to putting loads of neuro toxic chemicals, gmo, DNA from animals, aborted fetal cells… Of any kind into my kids’ bodies. When it really comes down to it – safety is our main concern… No need to fight with anyone about it but it does become a little frustrating to see such fallacies going around. I’ve seen them on both sides. I just wonder how any semi-educated person would not think that known neurotoxins such as msg, aspartame.. Excitotoxins mixed with heavy metals wouldn’t have an effect on neurons. Of course they do it’s a no brainer! Vacs are not the only culprit – just one of the numerous other factors… These harmful substances are in our water, air, foods, etc. unavoidable. The more resistant people are lucky but some people are very sensitive. I hope you and your families are safe and able to handle whatever toxin they come across – no matter what side of the ‘debate’. We are all one family, one species of loving people who only want what is best
Then you are responsible for your kids probable and horrible death. Good job.
Really! U need to dictate yourself before posting anything!!
Love your work!
I am a clinician and ALWAYS vaccinate and I love my children. I would never do anything to harm them. I have been in healthcare for 25 years and have been prescribing medications for 14 of them. I don’t know a single physician, nurse practitioner or physician assistant who is not vaccinated. There is my data. Where is yours?
Your statement in not credible. I know of many nurses and some doctors that do not vaccinate because they see the damage done by vaccines and are far more educated than the ones who do not seek the truth and facts. How many vaccinate for fear of losing their jobs? You do not know any inside information, just your opinion.
As a healthcare professional myself, most of my colleagues do vaccinate..but they follow the schedule from the 1970’s (pre-1980). We all believe this to be very sound as no credible studies for today’s schedule currently exist. Better to be on the safe side. We all turned out fine from the reasonable schedule given to us a few decades ago.
Well please stay away from me if you are not immunised! I am a Type I Diabetic and even getting chicken pox can kill me or I can end up in the ICU. I feel that by not getting immunised YOU do put me and my immunised children at risk. It is selfish self centred and irresponsible for you to do this. What about the woman standing in front of you at the supermarket who is fighting cancer and your child, who may be carrying chicken pox and you may not know it, passes tis virus to someone who’s immunity is already compromised, they die, because of your selfishness. That was someone’s mother, daughter, wife, grandmother. Very very selfish and uninformed, I’m sorry but go join a commune and continue to smoke you pot and hug and love in a hole. Oh and I see all you hippy lovers are too scared to post your name well I’m not!
Actually you are staying away from the wrong people, you need to stay away from the recently vaccinated as they have “shedding” that will most certainly expose you to the diseases before any non-vax person will.
Um, if YOU’RE immunized, then you’re protected, so how would being near an
un-immunized person harm you?
Your very misinformed sadly and angry at the wrong group of people. It is not anti-vaxers that put you at risk, not even close actually. The recently vaxxed “shed” the virus they were vaxxed from and that is exactly how you will get it if/when you do. I feel sorry that because of the obvious bias you have and for what reason nobody but you knows, you will likely at some point get exposed and when that happens I am sorry for what you will experience, and likely I’m sure you will find a way to tell yourself it came from a non-vaxer and you will harbor more hatred. All I can say is Good luck on your journey and I hope you find the answers you so desperately need before it’s to late.
50 MILLION died of the flu in 1918.. you have to be a complete ignorant asshole to perpetrate this shit. ” I say no to putting loads of neuro toxic chemicals, gmo, DNA from animals, aborted fetal cells… Of any kind into my kids’ bodies. ” COMPLETE BULLSHIT.. you are a whackadoo.. I wish you could get a Vaccine for your stupidity. .. mixed with heavy metals.. you get more of EVERYTHING poisonous in there.. from BREATHING. foll.. foolish liar.
I GOT MY SHOTS MY KIDS GOT THEIR SHOTS THEIR KIDS GOT THEIR SHOTS AND WE ARE ALL FINE . iF MY CHILD DIED FROM A DESEASE FROM NOT HAVING THE SHOT I WOULD NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF.
There really is no need for the hate that you have. Your angry because non vaxers are liars? Liars about what exactly? There is simply nothing to be lying about. I’ll tell you who lies and why though! Pharmaceutical companies lie with their “statistics” and “trials” why? well because of course they make money silly! If you can’t see that then really your the one with the problem. I suggest you stop ingesting fluoride and decalcify that pineal gland so that you see things a bit more clearly (I suppose this will make me a hippy in your eyes, I assure I am not, although that would not hurt my feelings) and stop harboring so much hatred where it doesn’t need to be. Quite frankly your only hurting yourself. I wish you the best of luck and truly hope you find the truth.
Glutamate is actually a neurotransmitter, but hey, you got the neuro part right! You’d die without glutamate :). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid
Just an addendum: your body can synthesize glutamate, so while you would die if you didn’t have glutamate, you don’t need to ingest it to survive :).
From my power point http://www.slideshare.net/db61/exposing-the-myth-of-vaccination-essential-information-you-need-to-know-to-be-fully-informed-30978670
A short list of neurotoxins that kill existing brain cells and prevent myelin and brain interconnections from forming:
Aluminum – In many vaccines!
Mercury – In some vaccines!
Formaldehyde – In many vaccines!
Aspartame (Nutrasweet, Equal & Spoonful) – When the temperature of this sweetener exceeds 86 degrees F, the wood alcohol in ASPARTAME converts to formaldehyde and then to formic acid, which in turn causes metabolic acidosis. Formic acid is the poison found in the sting of fire ants. The methanol toxicity mimics, among other conditions, multiple sclerosis and systemic lupus.
Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) – The Law states companies only have to list MSG if it is 99% pure. If the product contains 98% pure MSG they can label it with a different name but it is still MSG. In some vaccines!
In regards to MSG:
Humans are 5 x’s more sensitive than a mouse
Humans are 10 x’s more sensitive than a Rhesus Monkey
Newborns are 4X’s more sensitive than an adult.
If you are pregnant and are eating MSG this crosses the placenta and damages the babies brain.
Glutamate interferes with uptake of glucose, one of two fuels used by the brain. The other fuel that can be used is medium chain triglycerides (MCT) found in coconut oil. The liver converts the MCT’s into keytones.
Vaccines that contain Glutamate and/or Gelatin or Hydrolyzed Gelatin (11% glutamate by weight) are, Influenza (FluMist), MMR (MMR-II), MMRV (ProQuad), Varicella (Varivax) for chicken Pox and Zoster (Shingles –Zostavax).
Natural glutamate in plants and animals is known as L-glutamic acid. The breakdown of MSG typically consists of 78% glutamate, 12% sodium, and about 10% water. Any glutamate added to a processed food is not and can not be considered naturally occurring.
In contrast, processed free glutamic acid (MSG) as found in processed foods and vaccines contains both L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid, and is also accompanied by pyroglutamic acid and other impurities. The impurities differ according to the starting materials and methods used to produce the glutamic acid (MSG). It is only acid hydrolyzed proteins that contain mono and dichloropropanols (which are carcinogenic), and it is only reaction flavors that contain heterocyclic amines (which are also carcinogenic).
Proponents that say MSG in vaccines and processed foods are safe try to rationalize the argument by stating there is much more MSG in natural foods than in vaccines. While this may be true to some degree, the naturally occurring MSG is different for two reasons:
The chemical composition of processed MSG is completely different as in both the vaccines and processed foods.
The way the body processes MSG because it is ingested (natural) and not injected(unnatural) as in the case of vaccines.
Proponents of MSG state that:
1/2 cup of peas contains 48 times the glutamate in Varivax and 127 times the amount in FluMist
One cup of breast milk contains 352 times the amount found in Varivax and 936 times the amount in FluMist
The safe, daily intake of glutamate is 12,000 times the MSG in Varivax and 32,000 times what is in FluMist
It is now essentially unregulated when it comes to labeling standards. A label may say “yeast extract“, “calcium caseinate”, or “beef flavoring”, but the product still contains varying amounts of “free” glutamic acid. This makes it very difficult for consumers who are trying to avoid it. It is also very dangerous for those who suffer severe reactions to it. Many people who are very sensitive to MSG experience respiratory, neurological, muscular, skin, urological and even cardiac problems.
Some of the common ingredients which contain MSG are: Plant Protein, Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten, Hydrolyzed Pea Protein, Textured Protein, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Autolyzed Plant Protein, Yeast Extract, Calcium Caseinate, Sodium Caseinate, Gelatin, Disodium Guanylate, Disodium Inosinate, Carrageenan, Xanthum Gum, Maltodextrin, Natural Flavor, Barley Malt, Malt Extract, Soy Protein Isolate, Ultra-pasteurized Soy Sauce, Whey Protein Concentrate, Soy Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Protease Enzymes, Protein Fortified anything, Enzyme Modified anything and Citric Acid.
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/04/24/hydrolyzed-autolyzed-and-other-msg-containing-ingredients-in-foods-and-vaccines-kick-start-schizophrenia/
Jon’s comment is an example of a little knowledge being dangerous. He(?) is using the words, but not in a way that makes me think he understands them. All human bodies make formaldehyde, then breaks it down rapidly- same for the formaldehyde found in vaccines (same exact molecule). There is much more formaldehyde in an apple than in vaccines. There is more glutamate in a hamburger (after digestion) than in 1,000 doses of any vaccine- because glutamic acid is a natural amino acid found in all protein (meat!). Dosage Matters! Jon is wrong across the board. Most of the anti-vaccine crowd are not just uninformed, but totally misinformed.
Jon’s comment is an example of how knowledge and empowerment can be dangerous to industry. HUGE difference between INJECTING chemicals into the body, bypassing the natural defense system..and that of eating foods with trace amounts or that of what the body makes by way of metabolic processes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvy6scwaaaU
You’d be suprised how uninformed most medical doctors are, especially when it comes to actually helping people create health as opposed to suppressing symptoms. Most general practitioners and family medicine physicians are “informed” by the parmaceutical companies that sell the products they want them to subscribe.
That flat out is not true and it always insults me as a doctor to be told I get all of my info from drug companies and drug reps. They don’t buy us anything! I only see them to get samples for my patients that need them. I don’t take heed to science they are selling and give them only seconds to see me. I make all of my own judgments on medications. Vaccine reps don’t even come in and speak directly to me. To portray doctors as drones that are led by big companies and can’t think for themselves is insulting. We have worked hard to get where we are and we are obviously intelligent. Most of us think for ourselves, research information for ourselves, and make decisions on that research. Unless you are a doctor, and can walk in our shoes, do not speak to what we know and do not know!
You are among the few then or a liar yourself MANY doctors have admitted part of their paycheck comes from pharmaceutical companies.
Big pharma regulates it all! Why do you think that the halls of some med colleges have rx posters hung? Why did courses on nutrition get almost completely cut? Why are cancer treatments that are known cures for cancer illegal in the US? The therapies that have saved numerous lives… Many that I know personally. Btw.. Don’t assume that people who comment here are uniformed without degrees and experience that brought about wisdom. I know that there are many informed MDs – married to one in fact. That exposes me to many more – interesting conversations especially at parties! Funny how the common consensus among them is that people need better nutrition and less dangerous free radicals. Alkaline and supplements. Apparently the problem with many people has to do with being malnourished and overloaded with u healthy non nourishing ‘foods’. They know that the symptoms being medicated isn’t the best cure for their patients, but it’s their only option. Many know the consequences of really educating their patients on true preventative care. Sad but true. Of course the med schools are sponsored by big pharma. The Rockefeller gang owns it all, a little research can uncover that simple fact. When the gang took over the schools – they did away with many of the original courses. But it’s still easy to know the truth behind being healthy is nutrition rich and toxin free! Many diseases have passed through all species as ‘we’ become resistant. This is true of many of those diseases that the vacs supposedly miraculously eradicated. Drs are great with statistics, those statistics are easily found. If people truly cared about the health of their future generations – they would work on minimizing toxins and putting an emphasis on making sure bodies receive proper nutrition. It’s how our organic bodies were made – with organic nature. We can tamper somewhat, but too much tampering will obviously result in what we have currently – diseases that are OFF THE CHARTS like never before. Kids are sicker than ever, cancer killing 1/2 adults (roughly). Why? The answer is obvious – unhealthy factors in the internal/external environment. Adding more toxins is not the cure. We all need to bring ideas together with tolerance and willingness to give consideration to another persons ideas. If not for ourselves, for our grandchildren and theirs.
Prescribe*
Everyone realizes that to a neutral person in this argument you all look to be banging your heads against the wall. These arguments go nowhere and prove nothing other then most of you do not like other’s opinions.
And who makes money out of these choices? Oh thats right DOCTORS
My doctor doesn’t vaccinate, explain that.
Yes, because people at home on the internet are “by far, way more informed and educated than the” needle pushing doctors and nurses. No wait actually they aren’t. Not in the medical field at least.
And some people are naturally suspicious of anything that the government supports, mandates, and manufactures errrr *cites* “statistics” for….especially the current regime and their destruction of our healthcare system.
Like
The anti-vaccine crowd are a tribe of witless prattlers who think that, just because they’ve pissed around on Google for a few days, they know more than experts with decades of real-world experience. They are so stupid that they don’t even know that they’re stupid, and talking sense to them is like showing a card trick to a fucking dog.
They’re not smart, they’re not mavericks, they don’t even have a decent grasp of basic logic (as evidenced by their persistent refusal to grasp that correlation does not necessarily equal causation). They’re just a bunch of panicky dullards who’ve been duped by scaremongering quacks like Joe Mercola and Andrew Wakefield and are too arrogant to admit they got scammed.
The anti-vaccine crowd is anti-vaccine because they WANT to be, not because that’s where the evidence leads. They want to think they’re smarter than everyone else because they sneer in the face of authority (a phase most if us grew out of in our teens). They make insane, ridiculous demands of vaccines that they would never dream of making of any other product. Cars crash, but they still drive; bridges collapse, but they still use them; jet planes careen into the fucking ocean , but they still fly their kids on holiday. But when it comes to vaccines, nothing less than an absolutely 100% pitch perfect, utterly, unblemished and completely unimpeachable safety record will do. This, despite the fact that vaccination is infinitely safer than driving a car, and even flying. Hundreds of millions of people are vaccinated the world over without incident, but the anti-vax crowd don’t care. Debilitating diseases are making a comeback thanks to them, and they don’t care. Children who rely on adults to keep them safe are sickening and even sometimes dying because of their pig-ignorance and bullheaded stupidity and they don’t care. And centuries if scientific progress – progress which should have sent measles, pertussis, and polio the way of smallpox right now – are being rolled back, all because THEY’RE too fucking haughty to listen to the experts. No, they’d rather get their medical information from discredited quacks and dirt-stupid celebrities who wouldn’t know a lymphocyte from a fucking pop-tart.
Fuck these people and their arrogance. What they do is nothing less than simple child-endangerment and there’s no need to tap-dance around calling it anything else.
Well this is a helpful reply. Probably time to take your medicine Skank.
So true. Sad, he doesn’t realize how many well educated pro-choice people are out there. I use pro-choice and not anti-vaccine. Very few people are actually anti-vaccine. But I know a heck of a lot of pro-choice medical professionals, including pediatricians who refuse to follow the current vaccine schedule for their own children. Sounds like poor Skank had a hard day. Too bad he is a vaccine-injury denier.
“Pro-choice” is a silly label for this crowd. Yes, you have a choice. You have the choice of making a responsible, informed, intelligent decision, or you can choose to make a poor decision based on alarmism, unfounded conclusion-jumping, untested hypotheses, and fear-mongering. The “choice” is a no-brainer: I’ll choose the scientifically tested way of promoting my child’s good health.
If we’re assigning labels, then anti-vaxers can be “pro-choice” and the rest of us will be “pro-child.”
Both replies are illogical. When are too many vaccines too much for young children? As a medical professional that works in a pediatric ER, I am very much for vaccines. Anyone that doesn’t question today’s schedule over the last decade is unreasonable. Vaccines are BIG money and it’s been said that there are 250 more in the pipeline. There is a middle ground. Those that can’t see this are paid shills for Big Pharma. Period.
Frankly, I’m not in the least bit interested in being helpful. I used to be, a while back, when I first started learning about the vaccine controversy, but not any more. You know why? Because being polite, respectful, and helpful simply doesn’t work. I spent years trying that and didn’t manage to get anywhere with anyone. Over, and over, and over again, I patiently, politely, respectfully, and helpfully explained the difference between ethyl-mercury (Thimerosal – harmless) and methyl-mercury (the bad stuff), the relative dangers of vaccines (negligible) vs. the dangers of the diseases they prevent (severe), the concept of herd immunity, and the reams and reams of studies which support both the science and safety of vaccination. I even had a little blog about it once, and on that blog I conducted myself with a level of tact and diplomacy that made Gandhi look like a fucking dock worker.
And it was all a total, total waste of time. I don’t think I ever managed to convince anybody. All I managed to do was incite a loose assortment of random internet half-wits to call me a shill for “Big Pharma”. Hell, the OP’s post is one of the best and well referenced layman’s guides to vaccination I’ve seen in years, but for all the difference it’s made to you idiots it might as well have been written in Chinese. This, despite the fact that nearly every “objection” the anti-vax commentators have made in this thread was both anticipated and pre-emptively rebutted in the OP itself. As awful as it is to say, I really don’t think you people will learn how wrong you are until all the diseases vaccines have reduced or eliminated over the years come back and your kids start dying off. And even that won’t be enough to convince all of you.
Nowadays, I almost never bother trying to debate you people, because there’s simply no point. Convincing an anti-vaxxer that vaccines are safe and effective is like trying to kick a puddle up a fucking hill. But when I read haughty, sanctimonious, self-satisfied crap about “needle-pushers” from people who have almost certainly never so much as given an injection in their lives, and who probably couldn’t explain how herd immunity works if their very lives depended on it…well, then the red mist descends and I just have to tell that person what I think of them. I stand by every single word of my previous post. You people are stupid, uneducated, dangerous and wrong. Worst of all, you’re arrogant. You think a few days, or weeks, or months idly clicking through Google makes you as qualified to speak about the safety of vaccines as the people who invented them. You think that good ol’ fashioned “Mommy wisdom” is better than a scientific education. You think anecdotes trump studies, and you have no respect for the people who have actually bothered to go out there and do the work, work that not only involves researching, developing, and testing vaccines, but also actually treating real patients in person, patients who, occasionally, are sick because their idiot parents didn’t vaccinate them.
Fuck you people. You deserve no respect, and I’m not going to cheapen myself by showing you any.
Being an asshole doesnt help either.
It helps my blood pressure.
You probably get in a car every day and pollute the air that my children have to breathe. Shank, your arguments are floored and maybe you need to read more than whats on the Internet.
Herd Immunity you say? You obviously dont understand the concept of it either. Shame on you for speaking that way to others for making decisions for them selves. Herd Immunity is biased on 70-80% of the population is protected the other twenty percent DOESN’T HAVE TO BE, BECAUSE EVEN VAC’S AREN’T 100% effective, PROVEN. The theory is and yes its a theory, if the MAJORITY of people are protected then the RISK is very low so we should be ok. SO on that theory it wouldn’t matter if a SMALL percentage of the population isn’t vac’d…..so why are you getting your panties in a bunch if you your self believes in HERD IMMUNITY?!?!?!?!?
Here here, sir. It is high time we all stopped tolerating the stupid. No, your fucking opinion doesn’t count. Stick them in a sealed room an expose them to, say, smallpox (there are two samples of the stuff left in the world) and let them fucking die.
Then put their orphaned children with families who actually pay attention to their medical needs.
Bit invective-heavy there, Shank, but spot on. I not only think you are right, but I totally share your depthless frustration. Lots of people here like quoting statistics, so here are some, even referenced: http://www.who.int/wer/2014/wer8906.pdf. I draw special attention to the second sentence on the second page: “Compared with a scenario of no
vaccination, an estimated 13.8 million deaths were prevented by measles vaccination during 2000–2012”. No doubt the “needle pullers” will tell me that the WHO fakes all of its results, but, just assuming for a moment that these figures have even the most tenuous connection to reality (actually I’m pretty sure they’re accurate), I’d really like to see ANY piece of evidence from ANYWHERE based on sound, unbiased observation and quoted objectively by ANYONE which even BEGINS to suggest that there were 13.8 million vaccination “victims” between 2000-2012.
Shank, maybe these idiots need to post with a name instead of hiding behind anonymity! No factual information from them just bullying and self centred ignorance.
Well said
There is no point. You can’t argue with stupid people. Unfortunately it doesn’t only affect their children—otherwise only the morons’ genes would die out along with their children. They need to all be arrested. I just hope that in the future more and more pediatricians refuse to treat these idiot’s kids AT ALL. Let them take care of every illness at home (incl terrible bacterial infections, diabetes, cancer, car accidents). Hey, they can google it all. This is what needs to be done if the govt won’t make a law to arrest these people who endanger everyone else. I have reas medical reports that there are now even polio like cases in california. And you know on most controversial topics you can find educated, reasonable people on both sides…but with child vaccines it’s always the dumb, uneducated, jobless women who have accomplished nothing in life and this is their big life cause since they have nothing else to do. How about you also don’t feed yourself either because it’s literally IMPOSSIBLE even at health foods to find food not tainted with chemicals and processing (and I highly doubt these type of morons even care about that) I think you should all starve yourselves, please, for the sake iof humanity.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/22-medical-studies-that-show-vaccines.html
I used to be a vaccine believer simply because I *knew* on a very superficial level vaccines prevent disease. I had never researched them before, but that’s what we hear as a general knowledge topic.
When I started working in pediatrics, the shear number of parents calling in terrified about their children’s behavior after being vaccinated and the doctors’ dismissive attitude to their concerns peaked my interests. I started asking questions to the drug reps when they came in and they either full on said they didn’t know the answer, there was no data, or made a generic (false) statement about the vaccine. Then I was told by the doctors NOT to ask questions. All they need to know is the insurance reimbursement amount.
As time when on, I noticed we were constantly seeing patients for sick visits shortly after they received shots. I ran a report using our billing software and found over 80% (I believe it was 82.something%) of the children who received shots came back for a sick visit within 10 days. These were upper respiratory infections, coughs, fevers, eat infections…..overall just sick stuff. Of course children get sick, but I found the high proportion soon after getting shots interesting.
During my time in pediatrics, while I did work for doctor who DID accept non vaccinating families, I also saw how staff were instructed to LIE about vaccines being required for school and daycare for financial reasons. The difference between the insurance reimbursement for a fully vaccinated early childhood visit and a vaccine free well child visit was $400+ vs. about $50.
There were a handful of times patients had severe enough and immediate enough reactions to vaccines 911 was called. One that stands out in particular was when an obnoxiously outspoken pro-vaccine mom brought in her 12 year old son against her husbands wishes for his first HPV shot. While checking out at the front desk, within about 20 minutes of his shot, the boy fell to the ground and had a seizure lasting about 3 minutes. It ended just before the paramedics arrived. He spent a couple days in a coma and just over a week in the hospital. Another time a 2 month old baby girl left the office after her shots and was rushed back into the office by her parents not 10 minutes later. She had completely stopped breathing. The ambulance was called, CPR and oxygen given. She did not die, but was severely brain damaged after that.
VAERS is an important tool and doctors are REQUIRED by law to report ALL possible vaccine reactions. They don’t. Many, many, times I asked the doctors if/how/when they would be filing the report. I even asked how I should get the reports started for them to make them less time consuming and (when they actually know what VAERS was) always sort of scoffed and dismissed it.
While my experiences and time spent researching make me confident in never vaccinating myself of children, I am not “anti” vaccines. I believe in informed choice. My risk factors for certain diseases may be different than yours. Your experiences may be more on the danger of diseases than danger of the vaccine.
I am “anti” 3 commonly held beliefs of many people who are adamantly pro vaccine:
The belief that vaccines are mandatory to attend school/daycare. Exemptions are available.
That non vaccinated people are walking biohazards and need to be avoided at all costs. (The majority of the adult population is under or non vaccinated based on the current vaccine schedule)
The refusal to acknowledge that vaccine injures can and do happen and that they can be devastating and far more expensive, dangerous and deadly than many of the vaccine preventable diseases.
Spot on ! From Denmark
Thank you! Yes to all of this!
Holla! Nicely put.
Shank, Are you so sure you have figured out everyone and their choices? I think I have the liberty to chose my own health care for me and my family without you or anyone else questioning or condemning me for that choice. Name calling is childish, cussing show lack of understanding of language and all the arrogance in the world comes of looking down on others. We live in a free country, it is my right to be wrong, just like it is yours. We live in a Republic, and encouraging a mob mentality to pressure people to violate their consciences is never right.I understand public health concern, and the need for education about disease but you can never force someone to do something they don’t want. Propaganda does not inform, it give the appearance of education without the knowledge. The same thing said over and over does not make it true unless you believe it. The links in the article lack data, it was very hard to figure out how they come to their stated beliefs without supporting data, or a true explanation of how they calculated their numbers. I hope that you never have to hold and care for a child injured by a vaccine. I hope you never develop an autoimmune condition do to the toxic overload and hyperactivated immune system from vaccines. Please be civil in public places.
The problem with the “liberty” argument is that your decision not to vaccinate doesn’t just affect you. If your choice not to vaccinate only affected you then nobody would care. Unfortunately, it doesn’t just affect you. It affects other people’s children as well. Vaccinations are very effective, but they are not 100% effective. Every child who skips a vaccination increases the risk of illness for other people’s children. They also increase the risk of illness for people who cannot be vaccinated such as cancer patients, transplant patients, HIV patients, and children who are too young to be vaccinated.
As for my lack of civility, well, there are plenty of anti-vax trolls on this page who are refusing to be civil too. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
So you’re an eye for a eye kind of person. Who is going to listen to someone that believes in the old testament…lol
A Little FYI, When my father was imuno comprimised during his battle with cancer, recently vaccinated people were not allowed to visit him…why? In other countries around the world, it is illegal to vaccinate children under the age of 2 years because of their own studies by their own scientists that conclude the end does not justify the means. In reality that is exactly what health care professionals base most of what they do. Does the end justify the means…. Is the death of a child or serious medical complication due to the vaccination, justifiable because it is believed (because we are told) that it is for the greater good? I am equally as frustrated by those who vaccinate because they are sheep and do so because they are told to do it. They are told they are BAD parents if they do not which is simply not true.
There is so much going on in our country that those who are sheep do not know, are not told but are asked to accept. I believed once that the scientists, government would not allow medications that kill HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent people EVERY YEAR to be sold on the market, but it is FACT that they are. So YES lets believe the Pharmaceutical company who said all of these drugs, prescribed by physicians and taken as prescribed that kill so many people every year. Lets inject our children who do not have an immune system with vaccines that we are TOLD by pharma companies work. Because after all, they know best….right. It could not POSSIBLY be that the decline in measles, pertussis and all the others was a natural event, that immunity was developed naturally? If you did your research, you would see that these diseases were already declining when the “VACCINE” for them was introduced. It IS possible, that the OVER vaccinating of our population is what is IN FACT creating MUTATIONS of the diseases, resistances to the recourses we have against them. This is also FACT.
The bubonic plague STILL exists, yet we are not told to vaccinate, nor do we hear about the deaths resulting from it.
My unvaccinated children, are healthy, free of infection and ANY childhood illnesses. Have not missed a day of school as they have not had the FLU or even a cold. Their immune systems were not bastardized as infants and are able to fight off that which they are exposed.
Human Kind is remarkable at stitching people up and putting them back together bar none. Keeping people healthy with drugs, not so great.
THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE MADE WHEN PEOPLE ARE HEALTHY.
The notion that vaccine-preventable diseases were on the decline prior to vaccines, and therefore that vaccines did not control those diseases, is a very deceptive talking point. You can read more about it here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vaccines-didnt-save-us-intellectual-dishonesty-at-its-most-naked/
The chart in that article is particularly stark.
As a side note, it is obviously not true that “THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE MADE WHEN PEOPLE ARE HEALTHY.” Lifestyle drugs, from Rogaine to Viagra, are hugely profitable products.
As an educator being exposed to your unvaccinated children all day long, I say we open a special school for you “pro-choicers.”
I feel that this would be a wonderful study in natural selection without harm to the rest of the population because of certain parents’ irresponsible choices.
With that mentality you clearly don’t belong in the education system! Wow is really I can say here. You would be in a world of hurt if your were my childrens teacher talking like that.Of course you posted Anonymously so it didn’t come back and effect your job. How appropriate 😉
I agree. The pro-choices using an alternative vaccine schedule would certainly thrive over the mild brain injured kids that we see today. Great idea!
Wow.
Not sure if I’m reading here to Shank’s reply or the article in general.
I don’t vaccinate. I apologize if you’re bothered by that. I sincerely don’t mean to hurt anyone.
There is so much information from doctors and other health professional that make me question the risks of vaccinating, this is why I do not vaccinate. It’s not because I don’t trust that these diseases are actually hurtful. I’vw never heard anyone deny the potential harm of a disease, especially from anti-vacciners. I recognize that vaccines can work.
I personally lack faith in Medicine. From all I know they study remedies to disease but never look at what health is or how to maintain it. This distrust is increased almost everytime I see a Dr. I have rarely found their assistance help and more often have found care of other holistic practitioners did help.
I think it is unfortunate that there are not resources available that I trust. If I did I would get a vaccine. I do believe they can do harm. I am making a choice of which potentially harmful situation I expose my self to.
Other say vaccinate and think I am selfish. I could turn that around and say that people who vaccinate are harming the planet by not allowing natural selection to take its course, over popularity the planet. I could criticize all the people I believe are making this world a worse place for me and my future family. I don’t. Because I recognize everyone’s right to freedom of choice.
I read this article because I want information. About both sides of the issue. As many other do too, who choose not to vaccinate.
I appreciate the article. I believe many of your (the authors) ideas about why anti-vacciners feel the way they do is I correct, perhaps true for many.
Shank, you’re hateful attitude won’t help anything.
Both sides need information they trust, and need to work together instead of attacking one another.
Thank you for being intelligible and respectful first. Let me start by saying that personally, I am pro vacine, but I can see how some people are concerned with information that is floating around about the “risks” of them. I did want to comment on your mention of natural selection and how we are being selfish by not letting natural selection take its course. You probably meant this as a devils advocate half sarcastic way but when it comes to an individuals child, there’s no such thing as natural selection. Or I should say, that I would rather grab a hundred people that dont believe in the benifit of these life saving vaccines by their hair and inject them myself, than see one of my children suffer a life threatening sickness that could have been avoided. This sounds barbaric and extreme but protecting ones offspring is a form of survival of the fittest as well. None of us want the government to force us to put anything in our bodies, but we also need to be responsible as a community. The vaccine was created, tested and used extensively to treat a disease that was previously ravaging our world…so to say that we’d rather go back to the way things were because a select few are saying there are side effects is irresponsible.
Hey anonymous, I’m not sure how educated you are. When you say that you don’t vaccinate your children and that natural selection should take place, you are saying that if your children get sick and die of disease which is preventable you have no issue that you may have been able to prevent their death?
Either you are throwing around words to look smart or you are convinced that there are too many people on the planet. People die from the simple flu every day.
I’m not going to argue with you either way. But if you are going to pretend that you are informed you are mistaken.
If your doctor is a bad one, that’s ok, get another one. but the teams of scientists, immunologists, pharmacologists, doctors, chemists, toxicologists, etc. that make vaccines are the top of their field. They, as a team are working every day to prevent the loss of human life, and as such deserve your respect.
At the very least you should go to uni and study biomedical science. It’s only 3 years but you may learn some fact, instead of relying on your “instinct” or whatever you call it.
I don’t respect where you come from because what you are doing is so wrong.
“teams of scientists, immunologists, pharmacologists, doctors, chemists, toxicologists, etc. that make vaccines are the top of their field. They, as a team are working every day to prevent the loss of human life, and as such deserve your respect.”
Yes, and they are ALL employed by the PHARMACEUTACAL company themselves.
HUNDREDS of thousands of people die taking the medication of these companies and no one bats an eye…..100 people die of the flu and its an EPIDEMIC. You tell me “MR. Educated” one drug that actually “CURES” a disease. Most “Mask” the disease or simply treat the symptoms.
Ezra, you are fear mongering.
No, they aren’t all employed by the pharmaceutical companies. Some are, but many are employed by universities, governments, and independent labs.
As for your question, which is bizarre, the obvious answer would be any antibiotic.
My father had diphtheria as a child. They printed his obituary (prematurely, it turned out) because no children from his neighborhood survived that disease in the 1930s. My father-in-law had polio and was out of school for over a year. He still has a limp in one leg as a result. Read your history when you are deciding your child’s future.
Ok, well, you are unfortunately incorrect about what healthcare professionals study. I am in medical school. We absolutely study what health is and how to maintain it. The vast majority of what we study is what health is. We learn how the body works and how to make it function correctly, and the diseases are like minor asides that come afterwards. We mostly learn about how everything works properly, and then they will tell us how things can mess up, and how to return them to normal. If you had a bad experience with doctors, then maybe they were crappy doctors. Is every electrician good? No. Is every waiter good? No. Do you discount their entire field because you had a bad experience? Probably not. And you probably enjoy holistic practitioners because it sounds like that is something you are into. But that does not make Doctors bad, just because you want to like alternative medicine. I don’t understand how there are no sources you trust from which to get information. Go to pub med or google scholar or something and type in vaccines, and you will literally get THOUSANDS of studies, from people all over the world you can read. Dont trust OU’s medical school? Check a study from Duke. Don’t trust Johns hopkins? Get a study from England. Don’t trust them? Check one from Poland. There are so many studies that you can look at it is unbelievable for you to say you dont trust any of them. Maybe you, as a previous commenter said, go to a university to learn about biology and biochemistry and immunology. But if you don’t learn about it at a university level rather than on the internet, it seems that you cant make a good judgement about whether or not to trust the people making vaccines and the doctors telling you to take them and the people preforming the studies that show how effective they are. I thought most of them were straight forward. Some of them eve were doctors guides to parents telling why something wasn’t bad or was bad. This website has provided you some 40 odd links about vaccines, and you couldn’t find a single one that is trustworthy, in your opinion? That seems like nonsense to me. Look, you have qualified experts telling you to get this. People who aren’t paid by pharmaceutical companies. We don’t sign up for our big pharma pay checks when we become MDs. We learned about how important these are, how they work, and how bad the diseases they prevent are. I wouldn’t tell Peyton Manning that the study methods he was using to learn about defenses weren’t trustworthy, even though I watch alot of football. I wouldnt tell experts who came to fix my house what tools would be the best in their practice. I might ask questions, but if experts told me my concerns were off base and why, then I would listen, because they know alot more than me. And they aren’t providing THOUSANDS of studies proving their point, or even a single webpage giving you ore than 40 links. I call BS on not trusting anything. Sounds like a blatant choice, because that’s what you want to do. You can’t have a reason to distrust every study ever in ever university and every country, so if you have somewhere you did trust, and you read actual peer reviewed real studies with real data, you would figure out this website had lined it all out for you perfectly. I will be asking my patients to vaccinate. Not because I am paid by pharma, or but because I care about people. I have 2 autistic cousins, and family that all hates vaccines, and I was with them, until I got into medical school and I began to learn all about vaccines, and found out I was wrong. Please, for the sake of your kids, vaccinate.
im sorry but the information out there, and the body of knowledge really could not be clearer as to the benefit and relative safety of vaccines.
Well fucking said!
Funny how you exemplify so many of the traits you attribute to others.
*tips*
Proofreading your own work will make you look a little less ignorant. Also, truly intelligent people have a strong enough command of the English language that they can do more than use the same 4-letter words over and over again to convey a point. Maybe invest in a dictionary or thesaurus?
Hey. Shank. *like*
Absolutely correct on all fronts. There is no “thinking for yourself” when you’ve not done the work of all the qualified people who’ve devoted their lives to saving yours. And it’s not a personal decision because it affects the rest of us and our families and children. I’d be irate if a child knowingly gave my child headlice. How is this any different?
Shank, yes we are all ignorant and haughty and your ad-hominem vitriol is the height of intellectual pragmatism not to mention eloquent. You sir, are a self-righteous hypocrite who is reduced to insults because your logical arguments have failed. Most of us don’t decry all vaccination, just as we don’t celebrate all of it either. There can always be too much of a good thing. And the collusion between the vaccine producers and vaccine providers is most definitely eyebrow raising. It seems you would advocate forced vaccination because we are too stupid to decide for ourselves or because its whats best for the “herd.” That type of collectivist ideology would be right at home in China. if you hate the idea of individuals choosing for themselves, why don’t you move there?
Yes! Truth
I freely admit my logical arguments have failed. They have failed because anti-vaxxers have about as much regard for logic as Carroll’s Queen of Hearts. Against the hermetically sealed mind of an anti-vaxxer, logic is about as much use as a fishnet condom. It’s like trying to take down a Bradley tank with a pea-shooter.
I could use logic, or I can use insults. Neither has a hope in hell of changing your mind, but only one makes me feel better. Hence the tone of my previous post, of which I stand by every word.
Also, I can’t help but be amused by the notion that some random internet moron – who believes Google U. Has taught him more about vaccination than the concerted studies of every PhD holding immunologist on planet earth – thinks I’M self-righteous. The irony is so thick I could wrap it around my car and call it a safety cage.
This is the voice of straight to the point reason. As coarse as it is, this sums up the situation exactly.
The definition of ‘witless’ would be someone who reads a few opinions then stereotypes anyone with similar beliefs by using derogatory slurs. I personally have not formed a concrete opinion upon this subject, but reading a foul response like this lends your opinion less credibility. If you have an opinion you are more than welcome to articulate it, but anger is merely an attempt to gain control by losing it. People have fears. They are entitled to question things that pertain to their bodies. Information is available pro or con. Who are you to call someone names because they believe in something that differs from your POV? Seriously. 😛
A few opinions?!? I’ve been fighting this corner for years! I’ve debated scores of anti-vaxxers, and for ninety percent of that time I conducted myself with a level of decorum that made Emily Post look like Tommy from Goodfellas. It didn’t make a blind bit of difference, so nowadays I don’t bother. Way I figure, since they aren’t going to listen to reason anyway, I might as well tell them how I really feel. It may offend smarmy milquetoasts like you, but I’m about a thousand miles past giving a fuck. At the very least, I stand a chance at galvanising those on my side. You will note that about half the responses my previous posts received were from pro-vaccine posters and were complimentary. Well, that’s more than I ever achieved by being “respectful”, so I call that a result.
Bottom line: After years of researching and debating this issue, there’s not a single anti-vax argument in circulation that I can’t crush in my fucking sleep, but no matter what I try, no matter how many studies I reference, no matter how many statistics I present, and no matter how many ludicrous, factually vacant “arguments” and swivel-eyed conspiratorial lunacy I debunk, it never seems to make any difference at all. You people are like the fucking Walking Dead! You just keep coming back. Respectful? Disrespectful? It makes no difference.
Can you really blame me for being a bit tetchy?
You go Shank!! Anti-vaccination is like a religion… They don’t listen to reason.
Shank,
I don’t blame you. Any/all of us can become so frustrated that we can’t answer the same question one more time without blowing our tops.
The question is whether it is useful in any way (other than to relieve your frustration) to blast at the people you may want to reach. Even if it’s not helpful to be polite (which I think can be argued), it’s probably detrimental to become so strident that your audience is turned off even before they hear the message. I learned that through experience before I ever read important essays from people who know about such things.
This essay is written much better than I ever could, by a man who thinks more deeply and carefully about such things than I ever will.
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2014/03/28/daniel-dennett-rapoport-rules-criticism/
You are not alone in this.
If you need to, please feel free to tap out and let a teammate in the ring for a little while.
If I’ve been remiss by taking too long a timeout, I apologize to my brethren.
lol
Its funny that there are no comments from anyone that is undecided. Everyone is a radical for one argument or the other. For the record, I am not an ant-vacciner, I sit on the fence. There are persuasive arguments for and against vaccines. One thing I do know is that for anyone to adamantly blame the extreme minority for causing the supposed disease comback, it seems a bit stretched to me. It actually seems to be less scientific and more of a infantile, shaming tactic. Scientist have long spoken of diseases and bacteria developing a resistance to vaccines and antibiotics, so why has evryone forgotten this fact? What about the fact that North America has opened the flood gates to immigrants and temporary foreign workers that come from third world countries?
On another note Shank, you are the poster child for every stubborn, close minded, university molded academician, who refuses to acknowledge that “science” is disproved on a daily basis. What scientists learned as “fact” 100 yrs ago was disproved a short time later. Things that were taught as “fact” even ten years ago are now being questioned. We live in an age where we discover new things so quickly, that to be rigid in your beliefs is asking for trouble. Another thing I would like to point out is your toxic attitude. To quote your own words, “They want to think they’re smarter than everyone else. (a phase most if us grew out of in our teens).” Your attitude shows that you feel you are intellectually superior, but it is clear to me that you are like an insecure child who resorts to insults to win an argument.
Being open minded is fine. Being so open minded your brain falls out isn’t. Believe it or not, some questions do actually have definitive answers. On some issues, and this one is a prime example, some people are right and other people are just flat out wrong. Anti-vaxxers are just flat out wrong.
While science does, of course, evolve rapidly, and while theories thought to be firmly established are occasionally overturned (although nowhere near as often as you imply) they are generally not overturned by laypeople who got their “educations” on the fucking internet. They are overturned by other, better scientists. The science of vaccination is so solid because it is based on decades of accumulated discoveries which corroborate one another. These discoveries have been subjected to an incalculable number of tests and they have passed with flying colours. Just because other, less established discoveries have been overturned in the past does not in any way imply that it is likely that the discoveries on which the practice of vaccination is based will suffer the same fate. Similarly, it is very unlikely that, after 400 years of study, we will one day discover a fatal flaw in the theory of evolution. While many things are uncertain, there are some things that, after years of intensive study, we can safely say that we know. That vaccination is both safe and effective is one of those things.
The important thing to realise is that the controversy surrounding vaccination is entirely manufactured. It represents nothing more than the power of both marketing and of stupid people in large groups. There are simply no good reasons to believe that vaccines are dangerous. While there are, of course, a number of people who suffer adverse vaccine reactions every year, they are tiny in comparison to the number of people who are actually vaccinated. The VAERS database records about 28,000 adverse vaccine events per year. The number of vaccines administered every year runs into the hundreds of millions. Do you know what 28,000 is as a percentage of 100 million? 0.02%. Of course, it goes without saying that there are far more than 100 million vaccines administered every year, so the REAL number is actually far lower than that. Furthermore, many of these reactions are very mild. They are certainly far, far milder than a case of measles. Even if, by some miracle, it turns out that vaccines are both horribly dangerous and utterly ineffective, you have absolutely no good reason whatsoever to believe that today. Persisting in your uncertainty is nothing more than a sign of your own paranoia.
And as for my attitude? Well, I may be angry but that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not I’m right. If you want to get a sense of where I’m coming from, imagine that you are a Latin professor, but you are unable to teach any of your classes because every time you try you’re interrupted by an angry crowd furiously insisting that the Roman Empire never existed. They can’t think straight, most of the time they can hardly spell, and they’ve not even done 1% of the work that you have, but they insist that YOU are the one who needs an education. That’s how wrong the anti-vaxxers are. It wears you down after a while. Occasionally, you come across some dickhead calling you a “needle pusher” and you just have to let off a little bit of steam. If it bothers you so much, maybe you should try not being such a pussy?
Still, I am nothing if not obliging. If you want an argument to chew over, try this:
http://www.bmj.com/content/330/7491/558.2
That is a link to an article published in the highly prestigious British Medical Journal. It details a study carried out by Japanese scientists on no fewer than 30,000 children. Japan banned the MMR vaccine in 1993. Now, if, as anti-vaxxers allege, the MMR vaccine causes autism, one would expect the incidence rate to go down after the vaccine was banned. However, the study showed that, far from decline, autism rates in Japan just kept going up and up and up. No anti-vaccinationist that I have ever debated has ever been able to account for that.
Now, I have lost count of the number of anti-vaxxers as I have shown that study to and it has never even come close to making a blind bit of difference. Anti-vaxxers are pathologically close-minded. Argument simply doesn’t work. Reason simply doesn’t work. Maybe a little abuse will have more of an impact.
P.S. – If you want to see some really nasty attitudes, head on over to Natural News sometime and just dare to make a single post approving of vaccines. You’ll be called a baby killing Pharma whore by a half dozen posters by the end of the day. Seriously, those people make me look like fucking Gandhi!
“After 400 years of study” is obviously a typo. I meant 150 years of study. I originally wrote “After 400 years of study it is highly unlikely that the theory of gravity will be overturned.” I changed the word gravity to the word evolution because I thought it might make the example a little bit clearer but I forgot to change the year number.
Also, 0.02% should be 0.03%. Damn typos. This is what I get for writing huge posts on my phone.
“Thus autistic children have a hyperimmune response to measles virus, which in the absence of a wild type of measles infection might be a sign of an abnormal immune reaction to the vaccine strain or virus reactivation.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883
“Stemming from this evidence, we suggest that an inappropriate antibody response to MMR, specifically the measles component thereof, might be related to pathogenesis of autism.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534
Very nice. Tell that to my husband’s stepbrother. Oh, that’s right, you can’t. A vaccine killed him in infancy. Vaccine reactions are real. According to FDA officials, less than 10% ever get reported to the VAERS system. No one’s going to catch anything from my unvaxxed kids. They could have to actually get sick, first. They get the sniffles about twice a year, and just the sniffles, not even a lot of snot or a cough, despite being between 2 and 7, so totally at the germy age.
My eldest was born premie, due to a car wreck, and needed NICU care for immature lungs. The NICU doctor tried to insist on administering a Hep B vaccine to my sick premie who was unable to breathe unassisted. Hep B is transmitted sexually and via intravenous drug use. The only time newborns are at risk is if their mothers have it. More newborns have bad reactions to the vaccine than used to get the disease. Administering such a vaccine to an ill premie is NOT science. It’s religion.
I’m so sorry for your loss! People need to be informed – thank you for sharing:) I’m 6 months pregnant and researching. Seems that there are a lot of statistics and there is a lot of junk science similar to those who adamantly advocated for smoking during that round of unfortunate brainwashing. The most tyrannical posts seem to be those who are angry with people who have decided against the vaccines. I have heard of “clean vaccines” that supposedly leave out the worst of adjuvants. It’s a scary world and deciding what is best in the face of so many differing opinions with so many ‘facts’ purported by people we don’t know – is very difficult. I’m relying on my memories from statistics college classes in order to really find out. Also with what people who surround me have been through and observed. Seems as though vaccine shedding is one issue that isn’t spoken of much by the angry pro vac people. I wonder about disease mutations? Like rodent, bacteria, or insect mutations that occur with too many man made pesticides – of course viruses mutate also. The angry ones seem to also avoid the issue of SV-40 also. I’d love to see some real research, not just an explanation of research.. The stats behind them and how the studies were conducted. It’s well known that drug companies minimize ill effects of their products and glorify the positive. The loss of lives to diseases are tragic just as much as those hurt and killed by the medicines! Sad that people have to choose between dangerous toxins injected into innocent babies or risk deadly diseases!
A lot of the information you’re looking for is actually available. Here is some data about SV-40, for example: http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/sv40.html
The short version? It hasn’t been present in vaccines for at least 50 years, and epidemiological studies don’t show an increased risk of cancer in those who were exposed to it.
I would suggest that whatever source convinced you this was something to worry about is not credible.
“According to FDA officials, less than 10% ever get reported to the VAERS system.”
I searched for information to corroborate this claim and can’t find anything. Can you cite a source?
Click to access VaricellaVAERS.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888271/
Former FDA Commissioner David Kessler estimated in a 1993 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association that fewer than 1 percent of all doctors report injuries and deaths following the administration of prescription drugs.
Your first link is about what I’d expect. Goldman has something of a reputation for trying to use VAERS to attack vaccines, and making a hash of it. Here is a takedown of the second article you linked to:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/11/28/h1n1-vaccine-and-miscarriages-more-antivaccine-fear-mongering-about-flu-vaccines/
An excerpt: “What Goldman has done is to take two sources, one a passive surveillance system prone to reporting biases (both over- and underreporting) that can’t be used to estimate incidence or prevalence, the other an internet survey performed by an advocacy group, and combine them. Somehow he expects that from these sources he can come up with a halfway reliable estimate of the incidence of spontaneous abortion and stillbirth after vaccines, compare it to data from other sources for total number of pregnancies, H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccine uptake, and then use this gmish of data sources to prove that the H1N1 vaccine adds some sort of synergistic toxicity to the seasonal flu vaccine. And, to top it off, he seems to think he can do it accurately for three different flu seasons. Surprise, surprise, he can’t!”
The first article you linked to, also by Goldman, is odd. He shoehorns in a hearsay reference to a parent’s claim that a child developed autism from the MMR vaccine, about the hoariest of urban vaccine legends. Half the article is a recitation of borderline random facts about varicella vaccinations and VAERS (the date of the first reported adverse event) and unsourced fiat claims that VAERS underreports adverse events. In fact, although he claims that reporting rates “have typically been shown to be only 5% to 10% of the true rates,” he prefaces that comment by claiming that the true rate of events is unknown. If the true rate is unknown, then how is he arriving at the 5-10% rate?
Other information I’ve been reading since your original comment makes a more cogent point: underreporting can be a problem with self-reporting regimes like VAERS. But so can overreporting; since there’s no attempt to control VAERS reports for causation (it’s just a listing of adverse events that happened following a vaccination, not necessarily ones that were caused by a vaccination) it’s almost certainly true that many events that weren’t caused by a vaccine get reported.
For example, the second half of Goldman’s piece is essentially a list of bad stuff that happened to someone who got vaccinated. Here’s one entry in its entirety:
“A man who was vaccinated against varicella in 1995 developed encephalomyloneuritis and required hospitalization for months. He remains permanently disabled.”
No discussion of timing, much less causation. If this is the sort of thing that gets lumped into VAERS statistics, overreporting is likely to be a problem as well as underreporting.
I would need to see some actual studies before I accept that there is enough data to accurately estimate the over- or under-reporting of adverse events in VAERS.
(One exception would be minor adverse events; some FDA testimony I read made the point that just about no one would report minor swelling in VAERS, even though it’s technically an adverse event. I would assume that very minor side effects are significantly underreported.)
Marry me Shank! Or maybe we can’t get married, for you are my identical twin.
You must be an idiot. Anti-vaccine crowd is more informed and educated?? Nope. Dumber than a stick they are! Medical Science is far beyond the pathetic cynicism of these conspiracy addicts. Sad ill informed dupes.
Why do whack jobs on at antivax side always say “they know a doctor..”
Please, show me one iota of proof from any reputable child care organization based on research that says not to vaccinate.
I’ll take any university, a research hospital, government organization – literally anything with a .edu, .gov.
False
The evidence based science of why vaccines are not safe, why vaccines do not protect us as touted and why vaccines are not the reason for the decrease and elimination of disease. How to strengthen your immune system naturally, breast health-mammograms versus thermography, safe natural cancer cures the FDA is suppressing, amalgam fillings, flouride in the water, pesticides and neurotoxins in our food, GMO’s, recommended websites, documentaries and books for further research, High dose liposomal C and Lipospheric C therapy. All work is properly cited and referenced from the FDA, CDC, Pink Book of the CDC, NIH, WHO, PubMed, prestigious journals, top experts in their field, vaccine inserts, material safety data sheet and governments from around the world.
1. MUST WATCH! FREE FOR A SHORT TIME ON YOU TUBE. Full Documentary “Silent Epidemic: The Untold Story Of Vaccines” – slide 143 of Power Point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1m3TjokVU4 108 minutes
Opening night of “Silent Epidemic: The Untold Story of Vaccines” on opening night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjYaEeMgXZk 34 minute trailer
See all of Gary Nulls Documentaries on Natural Health and Healing -http://www.gnhealthyliving.com/Scripts/pfprod-dvdscds.asp
ORDER YOUR Silent Epidemic: The Untold Story Of Vaccines DVD – http://www.gnhealthylivHng.com/Scripts/pfprodview.asp?idproduct=1222
2. MUST WATCH! How Vaccines Harm Child Brain Development – Dr Russell Blaylock MD. (Neurosurgeon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs#t=417 88 minutes
3. MUST WATCH! How the studies that doctors site as evidence are skewed (lied about) in the pharmaceuticals favor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-3yrrgkcLY&feature=youtu.be 8 minutes
I go into 3 other ways that the pharmaceuticals twist and distort the truth.
Yes they are ..
insanity is to continue doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results .
We are lead and dictated by a narcissistic sociopath government that has been subject to financial flattery for the last 90 plus years , come on people do your homework and you will see the lies behind there so called truth.
I will leave it as that
hahahaha! Too funny, I guess you see what you believe regardless of the facts.
tl;dr for the comment section: pissing contest between those who believe in vaccinations and those who do not.
it makes me genuinely sad to see such hatred between commenters. we all have agency to act and say what we like, but for the love of god, please remember that the person you’re talking to is a human being with feelings, emotions, and dreams.
stop being assholes, it’s really unbecoming.
Well said Lara.. I have been attacked for daring to have an opinion on this subject and I think as a parent it is my duty to research everything that doesn’t feel right but apparently according to some that makes me stupid and I should just follow the pack. So again thanks for your support for all people making their own minds up and being treated with respect in the meantime 🙂
But the work has already been done! And it’s been done by people who have decades of real-world experience. Why isn’t that enough?
Oh man, after reading multiple remarks from you Shank I must ask you, do you know how many times “science” and the medical field have got it wrong? You couldn’t count how many times that the “studies have shown” or “scientists say…” have been wrong. Very wrong. Is it all wrong? Of course not. There are many wonderful and amazing findings clumped into this generic term “science” which everyone is expected to believe is a synonym to the word ‘fact’. But its not all fact. The actual fact is that people are realizing that just because some kid gets a piece of paper at a university and gets a certificate at med school doesn’t mean they know what is best for their children. Your comment about the anti-vaccine crowd “sneering in the face of authority” explains your anger. You actually think you are the “authority” and when the lowlings who can never know as much as the doctors (authority) actually disagree or choose an alternative that they know is better for their family, that threatens your implied “authority”.
Never ever blindly trust in someone just because they hold a title or a certificate. Especially when its your children. It is so common for doctors to prescribe antibiotics to kids and even babies now even for just a runny nose or a cough. It makes me sick. These “authorities” who make women believe they are unable to give birth on their own, without Being connected to a bunch of machines and drugged up. Yeah we trust you! Ya know what, please move to China because the “authorities” will even choose your religion for you over there. They must know best, because they say they do. What a deal. You’ll love it
Scientists are often proven wrong. But they ‘re proven wrong by other, better scientists. Anti-vax rubes don’t qualify.
I hear this argument a lot, and I think that Isaac Asimov, the science fiction writer, deals with this topic quite well in an article called “The Relativity of Being Wrong”: http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm
Quite simply put, science is a march towards better and better truths. Surely it can sometimes go backwards, but for the most part we get better and better. Yes, science has been wrong. It’s wrong now- but MORE RIGHT than the science done before!
In the case of the link of MMR and autism, it started with a study performed 15 years ago with 12 children. Thereafter, year after year, more and more studies with more and more children and better and better samples came out. There has been no link found.
What are we supposed to believe? That the 15 year old study with a by all accounts poor study design and 12 children was the correct one? Or that the literally 100s of studies with 100s or in some cases 1000s of children with by better study design are the correct ones?
And floride is good for your teeth. So lets put it i the water.
Fluoride is naturally in many water supplies. And people who live in those areas have less tooth decay. That’s how it was discovered that fluoride prevents tooth decay.
@araneae is right. I grew up in a town with natural fluoride levels so high that kids growing up outside the county water system got brown teeth from fluorosis. Historically the region has very low rates of cavities; I learned in school that cowboys from that part of Texas had exceptional teeth, which was one of the early clues to the benefits of fluoride. (I don’t know if the part about being a clue to fluoride is strictly true, it could be a tall tale.)
And yet our county’s rates of cancer, developmental disorder, and so on were no different than any other community. Somehow the harms that people associate with fluoride never manifest in any detectable correlation with natural fluoride levels.
I can’t help but feel bitter toward people making poorly educated decisions that could hurt not only their child but MINE. Its hard to be respectful to people making bad decisions in the face of mountains of evidence. Maybe its just me.
like
Um well I sort of agree and sort of disagree. While I am absolutely in favor of many vaccines, I am not in favor of all of them and certainly not the way we do them. Kids tiny bodies do not need mass quantities of chemical cocktails injected into them all at once. There is no need to give a 6 month old 4 vaccines at once. Period. Sorry. I heartily believe in a spread out vaccine schedule. I also do not believe we have to vaccinate against every single thing known to man. Chicken pox didn’t kill me. I don’t even remember having them. I know of no one normally healthy that has died from having Chicken Pox. Does anyone else? Doubt it. My parents can’t recall any either. There are years I’ve gotten a flu shot and still managed to get the flu and years I have not gotten the flu shot and managed to dodge it. Fact of life is we will all get the flu at some point. Kids today get about 49 doses of 14 vaccines before they are 7 years old if you include the flu vaccine. In the 70’s we received about half that. Autism, learning disabilities and other issues have skyrocketed in the last 30 years. Is there a connection? As a mom who lives with autism every friggin day. I think so. It’s insulting bullshit to say (which this article does) that I just didn’t catch Walkers autism signs before his vaccines and after he received his two year old shots and quit talking completely, that I just noticed because I was watching a little more closely. Really?!?! Great to everyone with perfectly normal children that don’t live with what I do but I don’t deserve that from people that have no idea what my family lives through. Daily. Do I think vaccines are ALL bad? No. Do I think they were a trigger to a light switch my son was genetically predisposed to have had? Yes. Do I think there are other things that can trigger those genetic light switches besides vaccines? Of course. Aren’t there many other factors such as environment, crap we eat, fluoride in our water, and a host of other potential factors? Sure. But to blindly rule out vaccines as a cause and refuse to see correlations between the two and not give parents the choice to have single dose, spread out vaccine schedules as a viable option is irresponsible. I’m not crazy, running around believing that we shouldn’t vaccinate against very dangerous, deadly diseases. But if I could go back in time and do things over again after Walker was born, you bet I would. There are LOTS of autism parents out there that say the same. I don’t need articles that insult me.
Paige, the same virus that causes chickenpox, herpes zoster, also causes shingles in older adults. Moreover, the “chemicals” used in vaccines are trivial compared to the amount of chemicals to which many parents expose their kids without a second thought. I suspect BPA is much worse for children than the chemicals used in vaccines, and that stuff is practically ubiquitous in the USA.
You have got to be kidding. Really…BPA worse, huh? Talk about arrogant, unsubstantiated conjecture. Vaccines contain some of the disease germ (virus or bacteria) or parts of the germ. Vaccines are touted as not causing the disease itself to occur because the germs are weakened and thus claimed to be inactive.
Other ingredients in vaccines help keep them stable and prevent contamination of multi-dose vials by bacteria and fungi. It is also a fact that some vaccines have ingredients tailored to boost the immune response to the vaccine (are you familiar with these and what they might do to your child if they are in some susceptible 1%)? If a young child’s own immune system is still developing, weak, or somewhat genetically flawed, might it not be adversely impacted by that virus or “material intended to boost the immune response” being injected? Might not said child being injected with 4 or more vaccines containing multiple “weakened” viruses all at once be adversely impacted by this? What “medical entity” or pharmeceutical company would ever even seriously study this possibility? It would not be in their own self-interest from a business standpoint. No one is blaming them for this, and statistically a given person may well be better off giving their child such vaccines, but you should really stop being an arrogant jerk about this. It is not unreasonable for folks with autistic children to desire more research in this area (for the sake of prevention..whether it’s 10% of cases or .005%.
Vaccines have been studied though. I can understand your distrust of business and pharmacy companies. I also wonder about their motives and even some doctors let money from these companies cloud their judgement of what is best for their patients. But it is not just a few doctors that are recommending vaccinations, it is almost all of them.
I also understand your mistrust of chemicals that are in vaccines and wanting to be very cautious with what your child receives through vaccines, but once again it has been tested and the risk from receiving the vaccine is much less than the benefit of receiving the vaccination. That is why almost all if not all doctors recommend vaccinations for most healthy children.
If a child is so immune compromised that a vaccine could harm them, the disease the vaccine could prevent would certainly hurt them or possibly kill them. That’s a lot of the reason why it is important for as many healthy people to receive vaccines as possible. Then there is less chance of us spreading diseases to those who are truly immune compromised. Obviously this isn’t working as well lately. There have been a lot of outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases over the last few years and I think this is why both sides get so passionate about the subject.
It would be amazing if in the future we could develop a vaccine that everyone felt safe with that had no chemicals etc. but I don’t see this happening in the real world. For now most medical professionals agree that based on studies of the vaccines, that the benefits of vaccination outweigh any risks.
Such an intelligent comment. Thank you for speaking up. I believe every parent should do their own research from credible certified sites. Not a guy posting what he believes to he fact…..
My child born 7 weeks early weighing 3 pounds has had 2 vaccinations. Yep that’s it people van bash me all they want. At 18 months I knew something was wrong with my child and for 3 years was told it was most likely autism and doctors still pushed for me to vaccinate which I always declined ignoring their judgment. At 4 my daughter was Finally officially diagnosed with Williams syndrome a chromosomal disorder.
I have done extensive research and through that made my own decision to.not vaccinate. With her body already fragile I felt it was not smart to have 15 or however many shots they have by 3… Besides her chromosomal deletion my childs.vrry healthy. Never getting a . cold or sick. Only has run a fever three times. She is extremely healthy. Why weaken that.
Parents should always do what they choose but should do research and gain knowledge in the area especially before constantly having something injected into your child’s body for the first couple of year’s. A are vaccines safe sure in some cases
There are many many many side effects to vaccines and remember just because your vaccinated does not mean you will not get it, it improves your chances they say, but you are still at risk.
Vaccines have changed chemically since they first came out. They are said to now be safer yet when first developed it was saving lives and now seems to be harming some…
Our bodies at times needs to learn to fight an infection off. If we are constantly trying to fix it and make it better by vaccines, antibiotics, and so forth our body is only becoming more susceptible. Sometimes it’s ok to run a fever or let a virus take its course. Let your body fight against it and win before running to a medicine only masking the symptoms and making damaging your immune system making it more likely for another infection.
You obviously didn’t read the article. The only way someone has a chance of getting something the have been vaccinated for is because of people like you. Period. HERD IMMUNITY!!! You know not of what you speak. Keep your kids away from my kids.
Are you really that stupid Anonymous? If your kids are vaccinated then how do unvaccinated kids pose a threat? Only if the vaccine didn’t take… But then what does that do to the credibility of the efficacy of the vaccine. Further more… Where are these diseases coming from?! Vaccinated kids get them when they get live virus vaccines, but unvaccinated kids aren’t exposed to the virus, so who’s kids are to blame?? It makes little sense to say it’s all the fault of unvaccinated kids for two reasons. First, the kids who do get vaccinated, but whose bodies don’t develop an immunity are on equal ground as the unvaccinated kids, perhaps worse because now they can be carriers of the virus and pass it along to others. Hello??? The second is what I said above, unvaccinated means not exposed, so where is the virus coming from? Not the unvaccinated kids, they don’t have it in their systems to pass along. I know, let’s round up all those darned vaccinated kids whose bodies’ didn’t develop immunity and put them on a deserted island somewhere so they can stop putting everyone else at risk because really they sound like they’re to blame. Darn those kids. They probably pose more of a risk than unvaccinated kids do. It’s not a black and white issue. In fact, if you knew anything about medicine or physiology you would know this. Anyone who thinks that it is black and white needs to go back to school. As for the RN who made her comment about “most, if not all, doctors recommend it”… Ugh. You’re caught up in that brain washing trap of medicine. And yes, I’m a medical practitioner. No not an alternative health practitioner. I’ve seen many nurses and doctors have their eyes opened after letting go of the brain washing because they’ve seen the other side.
Packaging of live virus vaccines actually include immunodeficiency as a contraindication so for your child you are correct in saying that vaccines would not be beneficial. That means that your child is someone who benefits from the vaccination of others to help keep her safe from the diseases scientists have fought so hard to eradicate.
“Our bodies at times needs to learn to fight an infection off.” I’m afraid you have no idea how vaccines work. The body learns to fight off the disease in weakened form with the vaccine. With contracting a disease, it hopefully learns to fight off the infection and if not the person dies or becomes incredibly debilitated. This is what everyone is talking about educating yourself with facts not myths.
Correlation is not causation….
One thing we can conclude from all this arguing and fact flinging…
This story isn’t over yet ! you’d like it to go away, move on, nothing to see here etc.
Until we find out what’s causing all the illnesses, bad health issues as well as autism
everything is under suspicion especially vaccines.
Well said!
Amen, Paige. The more articles and comment threads like this are passed around, the more we polarize the situation, which isn’t productive for anyone.
I don’t know why it has to be the “anti vaxxers” vs the “pro vaxxers”? How is that helpful/productive? I guess I don’t understand why people are always threatened by those who ask questions, who simply suggest the possibility that things aren’t always black and white, that there are always exceptions, always those who don’t fit in the box.
I would also encourage those who are 100%, full board, pro vax to consider reaching out to people like yourself to learn more about vaccine injured children. Get your heads out of your books, white papers, computer screens and look beyond to see what can happen. Maybe you will begin to understand the terror some of us who have injured children are feeling and why we push back.
Also, to your point, I’d love to see people thinking more wholistically about how we bombard children’s immune systems. It’s not just about the vaccines and the chemicals they contain. It’s about the environment we subject them to, the water they drink, the chemicals in their food, their beds, their walls, their schools, their playgrounds. It’s affecting ALL of us, ALL ages. Our bodies can only tolerate so much. Some can tolerate more than others. Seems so logical to me.
“how we bombard children’s immune systems”
Do you really think that it’s only manmade things that provoke an immune response?
Any microbe, piece of dust, piece of pollen, etc. affects the immune system.
We’re all responding to dozens of immune challenges every day.
Read that link about how the immune system works.
“I don’t understand why people are always threatened by those who ask questions”
It’s not a threat, other than that the anti-science people are promoting entirely preventable illnesses in innocent people.
It is annoying that the same questions are asked over & over & over, and answered over & over & over, and the perfectly logical science-based research-backed answers are ignored in favor of an almost religious insistance that science is wrong.
Lynne,
I don’t think only man made substances provoke an immune response. I am merely suggesting that our systems are overloaded–man made, natually occuring, what have you.
To your point, my daughter and I are under seige right now with horrible tree, grass and pollen allergies. Allergies, btw, I didn’t develop until I was 42 years old (I am almost 45). In fact, I am so aware that her immune system is under attack right now from “natural” sources that I am postponing one of her vaccinations until she feels a little better. It’s her second MMR vaccination which is supposed to be given between 4-6 years of age. She is 4 1/2, so we’re still within an acceptable window to wait a bit.
I don’t see how asking questions, sincerely desiring information and being a part of the decision making process for our own health and the health of our children equates to “promoting entirely preventable illnesses in innocent people.”
HERD IMMUNITY! It’s not just about you. Do you still ask for proof that the earth is round. That is how silly you sound. And sorry to damage your fragile ego but my child’s health is somewhat dependent on your child being vaccinated. That’s why this is polarizing. Because the questions you ask are maddening and not logical. If you read the science the answers are there. Period! And you have the luxury of being irrational because the rest of us do the right thing which makes your kids safer. Keep your kids away from my kids.
Well said, Paige. The whole tone of the article is arrogant and condescending with no support for its assertions, and generally seems to be geared toward getting people worked up for no good reason. People are ignorant, and love to “follow a pack”. They assume if you aren’t in their pack, then you must be in the “other one” (it’s called a straw man in debating terms) that they have made up in their own heads. This might actually be a mildly interesting discussion if there were more than 2 people researching a topic and thinking for themselves rather than blindly following the pack, and throwing out unsubstantiated conjecture in favor of it.
“with no support for its assertions”
You didn’t see all those links to various bits of research which provide scientific support for the assertions presented in the article?
“to blindly rule out vaccines as a cause and refuse to see correlations between the two”
Did you pay any attention to the multiple places in that article where there are links to scientific studies, research, proof, etc. that vaccines do not cause autism?
Nobody is “blindly ruling them out”.
In fact, the anti-science folks have caused a lot of time, effort, and money to be wasted proving again & again & again that vaccines do not cause autism.
That’s time, effort, & money that could have gone into finding the actual cause(s) & maybe even cure(s).
I’m sorry your kid is sick. It’s obviously negatively affected you. I hope you all get help.
Lynne, you need to read more than this propagandized article and its links. For the record, my chldren (I have 5) have all recived standard vaccinations, and they are all healthy at the moment. And when I was referring to unsubstantiated assertions I was refferring to people like you, not the article. Your rhetoric is actually funny to read. You don’t even know who you are arguing with, or their background. You sound like you really trust in “science”. Lynne…I am a scientist. Scientists are people. Who died and made us all-knowing gods? Anyone can make their research sound good to the uninitiated. Neither Paige, nor I were denegrating vaccines or the helpful things they have done for society. The article is polarizing and insulting. In fact, so are you it would seem.
Brian, sorry your ego is so fragile. I don’t need to know the son story from these other people. I need to know that they understand that vaccines are based on HERD IMMUNITY. This article minces no words which is exactly what people need. A straight kick in the pants to wake up to the reality. Their ignorance is a luxury in this country but sadly their ignorance is starting to affect the public health. It is not ok. It is not time to play kumbayah. It is time for people to wake the **** up and stop screwing around with what has been proven. It is time for them to stop putting my children at risk.
Anonymous, I feel fairly certain that, if your children have the same “people skills” that you exhibit, they won’t have to worry about getting illnesses from others. Others will probably have little or nothing to do with them.
Anonymous..what do you have to say about the 14.2% of ADULTS that are not up to date with their Tdap boosters according to the latest CDC report from Feb? I’m assuming you’re all up to date then right? Because vaccines only last 5-10 years, so if you haven’t had the full range of vaccines injected lately, then you are putting them at risk too. Right?
Really Tdap? Please, please educate yourself…. How do you think you get tetanus exactly? Wow I am underwhelmed by your lack of educate and argument.
I agree with you Paige. We are fully vaccinated, but it has been spread out. I don’t believe vaccines cause Autism. Genes and environment while in utero do. But I believe children who have the genes for Autism are neurologically different, possibly more fragile. And our neurological system and immune system are connected. No reason not to take vaccines slow. Not infant, whether or not neuro-typical, needs that many shots before 1…..
“our neurological system and immune system are connected”
How? Please post links to the scientific references which support your assertion.
Because none of the college anatomy, physiology, biology, or nursing classes I’ve ever taken has ever said anything like that.
You have to be kidding me! You are not familiar with the entire field of Neuroimmunology? That’s VERY disappointing. As a medical professional, I am well aware of this field. Read the journal:
http://www.jni-journal.com/
There’s that ole’ pesky “scientific references” again. People are funny when they are arguing against something they know nothing about just becuase they think they have the “pack” and “science” on their side. Gotta laugh!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroimmunology
I’ve taken anatomy, physiology, biology, and nursing classes (college and masters level) and the neurological system most definitely CONTROLS the immune system (along with every other system in the body) so what in the world areYOU talking about Lynne?
First of all, chicken pox can be dangerous to pregnant women oradults who have never developed an immunity to it. I had never developed chicken pox so the vaccine was a better option for me. As a woman who worked in the hospital, I could not going into rooms for patients with it because my child could contract it and it could cause miscarriage/death for her. So preventingchicken pox in young children can protect these women.
Second, there is no evidence for anything you are suggesting, and many people who are autistic find the argument that vaccines are bad because they cause autism quite offensive. Nor is there evidence that it somehow triggers autism, and as someone who understands basic science/research there are a lot of random things that correlate but have no relationship.
Hi Paige I am sorry for your situation with the autism, that must be really hard. As a medical scientist though I just wanted to comment on a couple of things in your post, the first thing being about not exposing your child to four vaccines at once. I’m assuming your concern is that your child’s immune system will become overloaded. This is not the case. Every day your child’s immune system is exposed to hundreds of things it sees as foreign….dust, per hair, particles in the air breathed in, new foods). Hundreds. You are adding another four. The only difference is it’s being introduced artificially. It’s no different to your child putting his hand on his high chair tray, picking up some bacteria from an old piece of good and then putting his hand in his mouth. Most probably he will not get sick but at the same time your child has now developed antibodies and immunity to that particular strain of bacteria. So the immune system does not get overloaded. Four things is a drop in the ocean compared to what your child is exposed to everyday from his of her natural environment, which elicits the exact same immune response, you just don’t see and know it’s happening. So four vaccines at once just gets if out the way in one hit, with multiple vaccines in the one shot, your child only has to get distressed on one occasion as compared to four separate occasions. The second thing is about getting sick from the flu shot. The flu vaccine only covers you for the most common strain going around that year. So if you got the flu even though you had the vaccine, you got a different strain that wasn’t in the vaccine hence you weren’t immune. Had you gotten the strain that was in the vaccine you would have been fine or at the worst had just a mild case. You can’t possibly account for all the strains of influenza in one single vaccine, which is why they develop the vaccine for the most common strains only for that year. I hope this puts your mind at ease a bit.
Kind regards
Yes, our immune system is facing numerous attacks a day but how many of them bypass the first line of defense, like the digestive system, and go straight into the blood stream or muscles? The body’s immune system is built to fight those things you mentioned, not so much those things that directly injected. Also a cientist friend, 4 vaccines are being exposed to so much more than 4 new threats. I am sure you have seen the ingredient list of the vaccines. There are so much more than just the germ/bacteria/virus.
Poppy, while it is true that the immune response is not identical for pathogens introduced orally and for pathogens introduced intravenously, it’s a fallacy to suggest that our bodies aren’t able to cope with those introduced intravenously. Look at any rambunctious, tree-climbing, bike-riding 6-year old. How many nicks and scrapes does that kid pick up in a given week? Every single one of those introduces pathogens into the body other than through the digestive tract.
When we treat a kids scrape or cut, we are only treating the topical infection, but the same pathogens that we can access and treat there also made it inside the kid, where the immune system (typically) swiftly kicks the pathogen’s butt, and does it quicker and more efficiently than mom or dad can treat what’s left on the surface.
“It’s a fallacy to suggest that our bodies aren’t able to cope with those introduced intravenously.”
Please show me a double blind “actual “placebo study (saline control) on the current vaccination schedule and the outcome of multiple vaccinations. You can’t. They don’t exist.
Kids receive 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6 and 70 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18. To date, there has not been one single large scale scientific study of the neurological impact and biological impact and the cumulative effects of adjuvants and shot ingredients in children and adolescents.
Anonymous, I was responding specifically to Poppy’s implication that our immune system is robust as hell when dealing with ingested pathogens, but rolls-over and plays dead to pathogens introduced to the blood stream.
Are there differences in the way(s) in which these two systems address pathogens? Sure there are. But to suggest that our bodies don’t cope with with pathogens introduced intravenously or intra-muscularly is a canard.
chicken pox very nearly killed me. I most certainly remember having it
There have been hundreds of scientific studies done debunking the autism-vaccine connection. So they aren’t “blindly ruling it out”. And just because two things have increased at the same rate, doesn’t mean that one is a dependent variable of the other. Oh and if you know theses articles are going to hurt your feelings or piss you off, then why do you read them after seeing the title?
They didn’t blindly refuse the possibility of a correlation between autism and vaccinations. In fact, the medical community has studied it thoroughly, examining tens-hundreds of thousands of children, with randomized controlled trials (the most reliable forms of research).
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and free speech. But it is naïveté to think that just because you have free speech, it makes what you say true. Or, that all opinions are created equal. The opinions of those who are knowledgeable on a subject (either for or against) are much more worthy of listening to, than those who know little. Nobody is saying that you can’t feel a certain way about the subject, we are just saying, if you don’t know much about the subject, than keep your under-informed opinion to yourself. Let the evidence be your decision guide. By the way, argument by anecdote is the least reliable form of evidence that can be used.
Like all medical treatments and medications, there are always pros and cons to every action, as you are altering the physiological function of the body. However, in these cases you need to understand the severe implications of contracting these viruses and compare with the relatively minor drawbacks of taking a vaccine.
Nothing in this article is slanderous. It is a list of arguments from both sides with references to relevant studies. The tone is obviously in favour of vaccines but this is not an attack on you personally. I hope you can be objective and not find me insulting in what I’m saying. Your personal anguish and experience does not give your opinions validity. This is a fundamental part of the scientific method. The truth is learned from lots of tests and data from many thousands of times your own experience. On this scale, ( A Nation or a Planet, Millions or Billions) no single person can experience what this is. It is only possible to understand the problem with the help of many others, and stepping back to observe huge quantities of data.
There is a solution for both sides. Vaccines, even if guilty of so far unproven charges are a net gain for society. Every time the anti vaccine movement gains momentum diseases will reemerge and cause much greater and obvious harm. This is why the anti-vaccine movement will never win. The only progressive actions is examine all the variables of vaccines including the schedule and determine improvements. Improvements will be found. They always are, but usually not what we expect.
I am sorry for your hardships. And you are owed all the help our society can give you. I believe that you always cared and watched your son, but it is possible that the timing was coincidental, and until you prove that it is related we can not accept it as fact. It is the same as the sacred rule that we are innocent until proven guilty. I know we will continue to correct and learn about the human system and vaccine relations. I wish everyone the best
I strongly disagree with the anti-vaccine crowd and believe the majority of them have been duped by false internet articles and do not understand vaccines in the least. I have to say one point in their argument has always driven me particularly nuts. They say for children’s tiny bodies to receive so many vaccines at such young ages is dangerous due to an underdeveloped immune system. I have to say I would prefer my child be exposed to dead viruses early on in life than the actual diseases. I don’t understand how even the simplest mind cannot grasp the concept that being exposed to a dead virus at a young age so the body can build immunity is far better than being exposed to the full fledge thing, with no immunity whatsoever, that has risks exceedingly higher than those associated with vaccines (which again are MINOR with the majority experience nothing). Some of the people on here mentioned fevers after vaccines, lets look at it this way. A minor fever for a few days compared to a major fever with complications possible leading to death…. which would you choose? Seriously, think of those third world countries, use the googling you all are so fond of a take a gander at some images of the havoc these disease we are fortunate to be free of have on those children. Look at the high death rates in childhood, look back 80 years on our own society. Realize the risk you are putting your children and many others in! What do you think, with no scientific thought here just common sense, a underdeveloped immune system will handle better, a few dead viruses that pose virtually no risk or a few diseases (like be honest measels is clearly coming back as is growing outbreaks of whooping cough, etc) that pose an almost 100% chance of infection, severe illness possible followed by sever complications.
Paige,
I wanted to say I am sorry to hear about you child having to live with Autism! I am glad to see you are thinking for yourself! I am not pro vaccine or anti vaccine! I am pro thought! And I am truly glad to see you exercising your ability to think. You will run into opposition on any thought or opinion you will ever have!
I am not even going to touch this issue as I am not educated on this topic to where my personal opinion matters! I just wanted to say I am glad to see people researching and formulating their own opinion based upon that research! We need more people like you in our society!
Good luck with you child and their development!
-Mike
Paige, I agree with you on everything. I am not against vaccines, but my younger brother is autistic and it was definitely caused by a vaccine. My mother wishes she could go back in time and do things different. Thousands of families have the same story as you and I. I wish all kids just had a mild reaction, but some have a severe reaction that is life long and parents need to be well informed and know what to look for in their own children. Chronic diseases have skyrocketed in the last 30 years and I know it would surprise people to know that many informed medical professionals do not vaccinate their children because they do know the research that has been done and it does show there is a connection.
Kristi, and you have scientific proof that a vaccine caused autism??? You must have missed the most recent article in the news that is proving that autism form in utero. You must have not read the article that proves there is no link. So if you have proof the entire world would live to hear it! Where can I find the medical journal published article of the particular case you are speaking of?!?! Please provide a link.
Toxic exposure creates epigenetic mutations in the womb. This explains why there are unvaccinated autistic cases. It’s still the environmental impact on the genes and not the genes by themselves. Today’s child are born pre-loaded and our current, heavy vaccine schedule can push a certain % over the threshold into chronic illness, including any neurodevelopmental disorder.
The burden of proof is on the vaccine manufacturer. Unfortunately, industry has yet to do the correct studies. Real scientific method has never been done to disprove this. Please show me a double blind “actual “placebo study (saline control) on the current vaccination schedule and the outcome of multiple vaccinations.
Kids receive 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6 and 70 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18. To date, there has not been one single large scale scientific study of the neurological impact and biological impact and the cumulative effects of adjuvants and shot ingredients in children and adolescents.
Kristi,
I am certainly sorry that your brother is autistic. But first off, regardless of what you may want to believe, there is no way you have definitive proof of what caused the autism, regardless of what it was, because nobody really knows yet. I am not a human medical professional, I am actually a DVM. So at the very least, I vaccinate plenty of pets and I understand how vaccines work. (And why they work…we sadly see many vaccine preventable illnesses and just like in humans, people often choose not to believe us until they’ve had a pet become very ill or die from one of those illnesses.) You better believe I vaccinate my child on schedule. My pediatrician won’t see people who won’t vaccinate and I love him for it.
But back to the point, I have two autistic nephews. Yes, both are vaccinated. However, I can tell you with certainty that the signs were there well before they got the MMR vaccine. My son is the same age as my oldest nephew and the stark differences between them was apparent really early on. My mother first noticed something wasn’t “right” when my nephew was three months old. He is an amazing kid, even if he is autistic. He’s brilliant and funny in his own way, even if everyone doesn’t always get him. But he did not get autism from a vaccine. I hope someday we know what causes it…I really do. It’s just not from vaccines. I really understand why people want something to blame. It’s hard and I see the struggle. But let’s try to put our focus and research dollars toward figuring out what’s really going on instead of wasting our money on yet another study trying to prove to people that it ISN’T vaccines.
Autism is a tag for a collection of symptoms, not a discrete disease. There is absolutely no scientific reason for it to have only one cause.
Btw, some of the vaccine inserts, themselves, list autism as a side effect.
If getting my child the chicken pox vaccine (which I did) will prevent him from suffering the horrendous pain of shingles I would do it again in a heart beat. Once the chicken pox are gone the virus stays dormant, until for some reason, stress or other factors causes the body’s immune system to be unable to fight against it any more. The dormant virus comes back in the form of shingles. Sometimes the nerves are damaged so bad, the pain NEVER goes away, even after the blisters and inflammation have healed.
When one of my children got their chicken pox vaccine, her uncle (cancer patient) developed shingles after holding her at the ballpark one night.
After my next child got their shingles vaccine, I developed shinges–in my face– which led to a chronic, painful condition Trigeminal neuralgia.
Noone told me that my kids were “shedding the virus” for up to 3 weeks after getting the shot.
I’ve heard many, many accounts of teens getting shingles in the past few years. These teens had the vaccine, not the illness.
It is not proven that the chicken pox vaccine prevents shingles in the future. In fact, the immunity wears off more quickly than we were first told, meaning boosters are necessary.
I was scared for my oldest daughter when she became pregnant, b/c we weren’t sure the vaccine was still protecting her.
That vaccine is not necessarily better, from a shingles perspective, than having the actual illness.
Great post. Most people don’t realize that vaccine shedding occurs. Working in a pediatric ER, I have seen this occur hundreds of times.
My brother died from chicken pox (1968). He was a healthy child as far as I know. He died before I was born, but his untimely death scarred my family – the suffering that he went through was unimaginable. As a healthcare provider, I have cared for several children/adolescents who have died or suffered permanent disability from flu – for whatever my experience is worth. Yes, I do know people with normal immune systems who have died from common illnesses. As long as I’m running the list, I have care for several babies/toddlers who died from pertussis (whooping cough), and this year I have seen my first death from epigottitis – considering I’ve been practicing for more than 15 years and this was the first time since my first year out of school that I even had to take care of a child with H. flu – speaks volumes…at least to me.
For some reason I suspect anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy won’t be happy until they get to watch the children they claim to cherish die of smallpox. How do they think we eradicated that disease? By asking it to stop infecting people?
Man, that’s below the belt–even for internet discussions.
Just pointing out the stakes, and why Edward Jenner created the first vaccine in the first place. Some people have no sense of history, and no sense of the stakes, and I see no reason to pussyfoot around that.
The smallpox vaccine (really cowpox) is actually the CAUSE of the worst smallpox epidemics ever, and smallpox wasn’t eradicated until smallpox vaccination was abandoned. May I suggest you read Dissolving Illusions for an accurate historical timeline. This collection of historical documents is amazingly well researched.
I think this is pretty on point. I wonder if those people who are against vaccines are also against using things like hair dye, cleaning chemicals, or even chlorine. Those are harmful chemicals that people come into contact every day that can cause things like cancer yet people still use it around their kids. Is autism the new fad for people to be upset over?
Easy answer. People that choose an alternative vaccine schedule are often very well educated and have the ability to make wiser choices. This means purchasing non-toxic cleaning and body care products, water filtration systems, etc. There is zero choice when it comes to the toxic soup that comes through that needle.
The smallpox vaccine (really cowpox) is actually the CAUSE of the worst smallpox epidemics ever, and smallpox wasn’t eradicated until smallpox vaccination was abandoned. May I suggest you read Dissolving Illusions for a thoroughly well researched historical overview. Any real scientist will greatly appreciate this read. Try to debunk it. http://www.amazon.com/Dissolving-Illusions-Disease-Vaccines-Forgotten/dp/1480216895
The fact that Humphries had to publish this on her own is proof enough that her book is arrant bullshit, “Someone”. What’s wrong? Don’t have the courage to use your real name?
Ok where do I start??? The idea of a vaccine is brilliant. Right? Inject the strand and your body builds a defense to it and protects you against the real threat. I get it. But the problem is the FILLERS. Just take a look at Wikipedia’s list of ingredients in a vaccine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients This may take a moment for you to dissect these ingredients. Take your time. It is just extremely unnatural to be injecting these fillers into the body. For example hmmmm lets see….. Vero (monkey kidney) cell culture, Mouse brain culture, formaldehyde, Aluminum hydroxide, monosodium L-glutamate. The list goes on and on. You almost need to be a chemist to break it all down. Its the fillers that is damaging our bodies. These ingredients aren’t meant to be injected in our bodies. There are side effects to every medication out there so why not vaccines as well.I seriously can go on and on but I think you all see my point. ITs not the strand thats the issue its the other stuff.that causes neurological damage. Consider autism a side effect. We are fighting an invisible war called chemical warfare! Its in our food, air, water and vaccines.
The formaldehyde is mostly removed during the processing.
Mercury has been removed from nearly all vaccines.
Aluminum is an adjuvant. It increases the immune response so that less of the actual virus or bacterium needs to be injected to make the immune system work. Would you prefer having more virus / bacteria injected?
And so on.
Being afraid of chemicals is silly.
Go look on wikipedia to see the list of chemicals in a strawberry. Scary, huh?
Yes, vaccines can have side effects. They’re listed on the CDC website, as well as the insert which your doctor can show you. They’re also usually mild, and generally rare.
The most common are things like “pain at the injection site”. Well duh!
Redness and warmth at the injection site shows that the immune system is working properly, yet some people think that’s a negative side effect.
A typical troll / paid shill response. Mercury-free vaccines contain 0.05mcg to 0.1mcg of neurotoxic mercury, still posing a danger to the infant considering that injected mercury tends to accumulate in the body. The aluminum and formaldehyde present in vaccines makes the mercury, in any form, 1000 times more toxic through a process called synergistic toxicity.
“Being afraid of chemicals is silly.” Yeah okay, just keep drinking the kool-aid.
Typical uneducated idiot response. Please stop drinking kool-aid, sugar appears to be damaging your brain.
Don’t worry, I broke a thermometer as a child that contained mercury, played with it and tasted it..I’m not dead yet and I’m 42. I’m pretty sure that is way more exposure to mercury that a vaccine has.
Don’t forget that most individuals with dental work place prior to 1985 had fillings made of of mercury.
“You almost need to be a chemist to break it all down..”
Yes. This is true. And an average chemist has about ten years of higher education, plus about 150 (charitably) years of chemical and genetic research to analyze. Have you had a dose of penicillin or other antibiotic in your lifetime? I assure you, we do not produce them from moldy bread any longer. Thank a chemist. You may deny vaccines, antibiotics, or chemicals in general. But you’re deluding yourself if you think the advances made in science, and chemistry in particular, have not made a gigantic positive impact on everyone’s (including your) life in the last hundred years.
Peer-reviewed research or GTFO.
I think I love you.
I think I’m flatters, Ms. Akers. 🙂
people need to stop citing Wikipedia. they don’t let high school kids use it as a reference. don’t bet your health on it
Seriously! Citing Wikipedia is liking tattooing “imbecile” on your forehead.
All meat has glutamate in it. As does soy. And beans. All protein sources have glutamate in it. That’s because it’s an amino acid, one of the building blocks of proteins. Our brains use glutamate as a neurotransmitter. It’s pretty much everywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid
Wikipedia is never considered a trustworthy source. Sorry!
Where are the fighters to see the CURES for Cancers?? Unbelievable and shame on you!! More Children are DYING TODAY from a Cancer than common viruses! This is just my opinion but measles, mumps, chicken pox, excluding whooping cough, cancers etc etc- I’m speaking of ordinary viruses that have been around for decades if not centuries… we all know even a common cold can kill by developing into a phenomena, but we were all born with an immune system. We also all know that we have to allow our natural immune systems to build in order to ward off and fight certain viruses. We all also know if we don’t- our immune system is no good for anything. Now I for one IMV, would much prefer to have kids today including my own build their own natural immunities to measles, mumps, colds, chicken pox actually I would invite my children to be around them especially if they are under 10 yrs of age, but over 3. Soon there will be a shot (vaccine) for everything and an HONEST doctor will tell all it is best for some viruses to allow our own bodies to build a natural immunity to them. I know growing up my mother did not stop me from eating mud pies, and being around kids who had the measles etc., as there were simply too many siblings to avoid these viruses. The odds of dying from naturally fighting them off are far less than a person young and old getting a form of cancer in their life time yet I fail to see the same people finally getting angry that although there are CURES out there for many cancers, hardly any one is fighting for those. Now the CDC ADMITS to toxins in FLU vaccines and suddenly…. we’re being lied to??? I think not! I feel so sorry for parents today being co-hers ed into believing their children can no longer fight off measles etc., but hear NOTHING about cures for cancers that are KILLING MORE CHILDREN than a dam virus that as children we all had with NO vaccine, where maybe 1 in 100,000 actually died from measles etc! take a good look at the additives. The CDC-Government site for ADDITIVES in Flu Vaccines: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm This is just my view but growing up with 12 other kids… how is it we all survived those pesky common viruses. Seriously… SHAME on you all! HELP FIGHT to get the KNOWN Cancer CURES (and they are out there!) to CANCER CLINICS!! Children’s lives are DEPENDING on it!!
More people are dying from cancer and not polio or smallpox because of vaccines .
But that being said I agree with you about natural immunity. I wish I didn’t have to vaccinate my kids from chicken pox, but now I do because of herd immunity. If they don’t get vaccinated, and don’t get chicken pox as a kid (because everyone else has the vaccine), then get shingles later in life, it could be life threatening. That sucks that were put in that predicament.
You only get shingles if you have had chicken pox as the varicella virus lies dormant in your body. Then it can appear later (or earlier) as shingles. My siblings have had shingles in their 20’s so don’t delude yourself into thinking it’s only an older person’s disease.
Vaccinations save lives and in most cases, the benefits outweigh the risks. Meningitis can take a child from health to dead in 24 hours; I’ve seen it happen.
Whoa. You’re kidding, right? If our natural immune systems throughout civilized history couldn’t naturally fight off and eventually, through evolution of the immune system, ERADICATE measles, mumps, meningitis, chicken pox, etc., what in this age of toxins and poisons and pollutants would make you think that today’s children would have stronger immune systems than in previous generations?! Cancer is a problem, agreed. But cancer happens through mutating cells in our bodies. And they mutate ALL the time. But most of the mutants die because they aren’t viable cells any longer. The body does this when it can, to protect its cellular integrity, as it should. But sometimes it can’t. Sometimes it doesn’t see the mutation until the mutation has spread large enough to change the way the body sees it, and then it can no longer fight it. This, in super-simple terms, is cancer.
Why should the body be able to fight a virus or a bacteria any more effectively than it fights itself? That’s a foreign entity that attaches itself to our cells and wreaks havoc in a somewhat similar manner. Chickenpox can be nasty. I just watched my almost-5yo daughter battle a simple norovirus for two days that had hit me the day before, and it broke my heart to see her pain and nausea and cramping and fevers. Then I remember getting the pox at nine and being delirious with a 105 fever for almost two days. I hallucinated. I was covered in rash and still have scars at 37. I vomited and wept and was kept apart from my sisters. No matter…my 7yo and 2yo sisters both contracted it, one light case, and one bad…the baby, of course. We all survived, no one is brain-damaged. But would I want my kids to go through it if they didn’t have to? Uh, no. My 3rd sister never caught it from us, and got it later as a teenager. It took her weeks to recover, and could have damaged her internal organs, including her reproductive organs. That doesn’t seem much better. One of my popular, athletic classmates contracted meningitis at 16. He returned to school a couple of months later…his exuberant and outgoing personality dulled by the actual physical damage the fever and swelling had caused to his brain. When he graduated two years later, he still wasn’t the old Bill, and doubt he ever is going to be. Save my children that? Yes, please.
I’m sorry, I take issue with a few statements here, one of them being, “There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.” The link brings you to an article about an 8 month old Amish girl in Long Prairie, MN. who has polio. The article actually states, “The 8-month-old Amish girl, whose name has been withheld by health officials, has an immune deficiency that makes her unable to rid her body of the virus, even with vaccination.
How she got the virus in the first place remains a mystery.” So…even if she had been vaccinated, she still would have contracted polio. (According to the article she linked to)
That’s the article she used to get you to believe that non-vaccinated kids are spreading illness and disease rampantly across the US. “Outbreaks”, as she referred to one 8 month old girl with polio.
She got it from SOMEONE NOT VACCINATED. That’s the point.
That’s not what the article said. That’s what you’re saying.
Again, the article says, “How she got the virus in the first place remains a mystery.”
I worked in a school that did not require illegal immigrants to be vaccinated, yet if our kids did not have an updated vaccine record they were not allowed in school until one was brought. So it is not just religious sects. But consider how many people our children are really around that haven’t been vaccinated
Ok but she didn’t get it from the toilet seat Ben.
The above is nothing but “common sense”, no factual evidence at all!!!!!
Idiot post.
When I was about 2 i got chicken pox. The other child i got them from has an extremely severe case, where she got pox in her mouth and on the palms of her hands. these are not typical places to get pox. I had been vaccinated so I less than 20 pox all together. Had i not been vaccinated I would have most likely gotten a very severe case as well. I am glad that i don’t have any scars or other lasting injuries from chicken pox.
Last year I got chicken pox. It was a week before my 31st birthday. I caught them from a friend who had shingles. We were out of town sharing a hotel room with the friend who was coming down with shingles. The chicken pox didn’t show up in me for another week or 2. My mom always tried to sit me next to kids who had chicken pox when I was a kid so I would catch it and I never did. It sucked but it wasn’t nearly as bad as I expected. I had always heard how it’s so much worse in adults than in children. I would describe it more as uncomfortable than actually feeling bad. That being said, the reason chicken pox is so bad is b/c of the possibility of getting shingles later in life. Correct me if I am wrong, but can’t you still get shingles even if you just had the vaccine and didn’t have the actual chicken pox?
Yes! A lot of teens in our community have had shingles. They were all vaccinated against chicken pox and had not had the actual illness. This makes me wonder how long the immunity actually lasts. I and another family member have gotten shingles while my kids were shedding the virus from their chicken pox vaccine.
The problem I have with the type of ‘science’ that is used to back pro vaxxers arguments, is that it’s completely one sided and totally subjective! As an ‘anti-vaxxer’ (thanks for labelling us, pharma) I have researched the hell out of both sides of this ( hey: I even read this nonsensical article) and I have drawn my opinions based on that inclusive research. There has never, not one time, in the history of vaccines been a comparative study done of a vaccinated group and un-vaccinated group. That is a problem for me… That would be proper sciences. When it comes to disease and prevention – comparative studies between the controlled opposite groups, is the only ACTUAL valid answer to these questions… Yet it’s never completed by the government or pharmaceutical companies who pushes vaccines… The reason behind this neglect in research, perpetuates distrust in the medical industry and makes me that much more apprehensive about vaccinating!
“There has never, not one time, in the history of vaccines been a comparative study done of a vaccinated group and un-vaccinated group.”
This is not true. Here is an example of such a study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110304091458.htm
The key finding: “A recent evaluation showed that unvaccinated children and adolescents differ from their vaccinated peers merely in terms of the frequency of vaccine preventable diseases. These include pertussis, mumps, or measles. As expected, the risk of contracting these diseases is substantially lower in vaccinated children and adolescents.”
“As an ‘anti-vaxxer’ (thanks for labelling us, pharma) I have researched the hell out of both sides of this…”
As I’ve written elsewhere, there is a strong connection between anti-vax and creationist rhetoric. It’s quite common to see this kind of statement among even the most radical creationists: they are honestly convinced they know everything there is to know about biology. And often (but not always) they have actually read quite a bit of the science. But reading doesn’t equate to understanding; if you research something only in order to support your preexisting conclusions, you won’t learn very much. And you don’t appear to have learned very much, based on your misrepresentations of the research and the reasons why scientists cannot do a de novo head-to-head study using an unvaccinated control group.
If we asked you what you think a vaccine researcher would give as their reason for not doing such a study–not what you think their secret evil motives are, but what they would claim their motives are–what would you say? I ask because it’s not clear you even understand what that argument is, much less whether or not it holds water.
There is also a strong correlation between pro-vaxers and atheists. Why is that?
Probably because they look at facts, not stories?
‘Like”
I am pro vaccinations and I am also a creationist! Blows your mind.
I am more anti than not and am not a creationist…
I believe God created science and that neither side of this issue will ever be 100% correct. When I have children, I have no idea what I will do. This is a very tough decision b/c I see flaws and truths to both arguments.
So, are you suggesting that I am an atheist?
Why bring religious choice or religious skepticism into this discussion?
Would you also suggest that “anti-vaxxers” are also exclusively products Gaia?
Or maybe they are just romantic Darwinists?
It was an observation and nobody is suggesting anything. Colin brought up a good point. I do see a strong correlation between what he calls “anti-vax” and creationists. I used to be part of a skeptic society where a large % were atheists, extreme pro-vax (no middle ground), and evolutionists. I always found this observation fascinating. As the result of a vaccine injury (required set of boosters while employed at hospital ER)..my stance has changed a bit. I take a more common sense approach to the vaccine schedule. Still pro-vaccine, but slower and spread out.
>There has never, not one time, in the history of vaccines been a comparative study done of a vaccinated group and un-vaccinated group. That is a problem for me… That would be proper sciences.
Hmm? That’s exactly how vaccine trials are done. Literally all of the vaccines available have gone through these trials. Here’s the chickenpox one, for instance: http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198405313102201
“We conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled efficacy trial of the live attenuated Oka/Merck varicella vaccine among 956 children between the ages of 1 and 14 years, with a negative clinical history of varicella. Of the 914 children who were serologically confirmed to be susceptible to varicella, 468 received vaccine and 446 received placebo. The vaccine produced few clinical reactions and was well tolerated. There was no clinical evidence of viral spread from vaccinated children to sibling controls. Approximately eight weeks after vaccination, 94 per cent of the initially seronegative children who received vaccine had detectable antibody to varicella. During the nine-month surveillance period, 39 clinically diagnosed cases of varicella, 38 of which were confirmed by laboratory tests, occurred among study participants. All 39 cases occurred in placebo recipients; no child who received vaccine contracted varicella. The vaccine was 100 per cent efficacious in preventing varicella in this population of healthy children (P<10-9). (N Engl J Med 1984; 310:1409–15.)"
How do you make that assumption? I had full-blown chickenpox when I was 7. I caught it from my 5 year-old brother. I was itchy and annoyed with my brother because missing 4 days of school derailed the perfect attendance I had been aiming for. It was going around at the time, and all Mom did was phone the doctor to confirm that it was chicken pox. The doctor didn’t see any reason to look at us.
Sometimes people “follow the pack” because the pack is right.
And sometimes they follow them right off a cliff.
Some people do Brian
And sometimes people follow the pact and do horrible things. Proves nothing.
What about the scientific evidence in front of us? You don’t need to read articles to know that millions of people receive vaccinations with no harm, that it has saved lives, and that it has eradicated deadly diseases in countries that can afford it. It’s scientific evidence in front of our eyes. Is it free from flaws and adverse effects? No, and I don’t need to read an article to come to that conclusion either. But I’m certain the benefit outweighs the risk. Obviously someone who has suffered a reaction, or has a loved one that has, is going to feel differently – of course – I would expect that.
P.s. The ‘vaccinate for everything’ movement (ha… Now I’ve labelled them!) has gotten so, ridiculously out of control that they are trying to introduce a behaviour vaccine.. To attempt to curb undesirable behaviours in individuals… If this is not gross example of just how twisted the vaccination (and medical industry) is… I’m not sure what is. They believe that they can do trials of this ‘behaviour altering vaccine’ on smokers and alcoholics and then once it passes proper safety regulations (meaning once it gets fast tracked through the FDA system like most other vaccines) they will market it to children with ADD/ADHD, anxiety etc. ‘Here let me make money off giving you an inadequately studied vaccine that likely contributes to the development of ADD, then make more money by offering a vaccine that will fix that ADD and alter your natural brain fuction some more.’ Seriously?? It makes me physically ill!
Evidence or GTFO.
“Seriously?? It makes me physically ill!”
You know, they have a vaccine for that now 😉
Yes, we have seen a decline in certain diseases, and even an eradication of some, but we have seen a disgusting and unacceptable amount of other diseases grow and be introduced in that same time period, disease that are just as ‘risky’ if not more so, then these, once common, childhood illness’! Things like type 2 diabetes in toddlers, obesity, ADD/ADHD, autism, ASD’s, angelmans disease,childhood leukaemia, all on an unacceptable rise and all since the introduction of mass vaccination! Until thy comparative study is done .. I can’t rule out (personally) that correlation! Simple as that’s. Show me the science that the benefit truly does outweigh the risk, with a proper comparative study! (If I have to make the crappy choice between measles and leukaemia or my child – I’m clearly going to take the less dangerous of the two) prove to me that those vaccines, riddled with carinogenic ingredients, is NOT a contributing factor to the insane rise in childhood cancers!!!
Vaccines aren’t science. It’s medicine. Synthetic. Man-made. Fallible. REAL evidence based studies have never been done. The risks of vaccines today FAR exceed any temporary, artificial benefit. Intelligent people don’t follow the current schedule which has NEVER been studied. I am not anti-vax, but we all need a healthy dose of common sense. Spread out your shots or follow the vaccine schedule from 20 years ago.
The safety of the current schedule has been studied; you have been given bad information and are spreading it.
The Institute of Medicine, a nonprofit NGO, published a report analyzing that research: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13563
Epidemiological studies don’t count. Smoke and mirrors. Where’s the hard science?
Kids receive 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6 and 70 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18. To date, there has not been one single large scale scientific study of the neurological impact and biological impact and the cumulative effects of adjuvants and shot ingredients in children and adolescents.
This, again, is a type of thinking that connects creationism, anti-vaxism, and a number of other irrational ideologies: studies that I don’t like don’t count.
Creationists need to exclude evidence like radiometric dating or astronomical studies. Anti-vaxers need to exclude epidemiology. The reason is the same in both cases: the evidence doesn’t support the desired conclusion. And the rationale is the same in both cases: somehow, for some reason, the inconvenient evidence isn’t hard science.
Answers in Genesis likes to complain about how some science is “historical science,” because you weren’t there to personally see that rock get formed or you can’t personally test how far away that star is. Anti-vaxers claim they need to see kids left unvaccinated to test how dangerous it would be to leave kids unvaccinated.
The people who know the most about this type of work, though, come to two conclusions: it would be unethical to leave kids unvaccinated given how much we know about the safety of vaccines and the danger of the diseases they prevent, and it’s clear from the evidence that vaccines are highly effective and highly safe.
It’s not just studies that show this. Personally, as a lawyer, I look for the fallout. For example, Congress made it incredibly easy to file a claim for compensation for a vaccine injury. The government pays for your lawyers, and you usually don’t even have to prove that the vaccine caused your injury! Despite how easy it is, though, in most years many millions of vaccines are given and less than a thousand people file for compensation.
BTW, I agree with your views. The burden of proof is on the vaccine manufactures and they have not provided any proof that their product is safe. It may be effective in creating an antibody response in the blood, but what does this mean for protection is a guess. Nobody knows. It’s an unscientific assumption to correlate this with “protection.”
What exactly do you think happened to wipe out previously uncontrollable smallpox and polio infections?
Polio never disappeared. It was renamed in 1955 and now hides behind these names: acute flaccid paralysis (AFP), Transverse Myelitis, Viral or aseptic meningitis, Guillaine Barre Syndrome (GBS), Chinese Paralytic syndrome, CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME, epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, ME, post-polio syndrome. http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e2398/rr/578260
In 1959 there were over a thousand people on iron lungs. Ten years ago there were about forty. (http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/howpolio/ironlung.htm)
Redefining a disease can’t make its consequences go away. Vaccination can.
Dr. Douglas Kerr from Johns Hopkins, who stated on pg. xv in the Forward to Donna Jackson Nakazawa’s book “The Autoimmune Epidemic”…
“Infants as young as five months old can get Transverse Myelitis, and some are left permanently paralyzed and dependent upon a ventilator to breathe… my colleagues at the Johns Hopkins Hospital and I hear about or treat hundreds of new cases every year.”
Does the public have any idea that there are hundreds of cases of something that would once have been called polio, and some of those children will be dependent on a modern version of the iron lung? No. Parents today think that the Salk vaccine eliminated any need for ventilators, because the pictures of all these children on iron lungs are no longer paraded in front of people in order to create fear. Besides which, today’s “iron lungs” don’t look like a prototype submarine. They are barely recognizable as today’s “ventilators.”
– See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/11/17/smoke-mirrors-and-the-disappearance-of-polio/#sthash.fWD3M17U.dpuf
Not only was the smallpox vaccine a complete failure (most cases had been vaccinated) but it was actually the main cause in the spread of smallpox, with the most obvious example being the huge epidemic at the very height of compulsory vaccination. Most smallpox mortality was in the years with the most vaccines.
“Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunizations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available – the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water.” – Andrew Weil, MD
Your argument doesn’t make logical sense; even if the facts you cite are true, it’s like pointing at a house fire and saying, “Did you see how the fire peaked just as water was being poured on it? Water doesn’t extinguish fire! The water companies are lying to us!”
All i can say is that my four children are vaccinated and completely healthy. I understand that no vaccine is 100% effective, but I do what I can to protect my children. If my child gets a vaccine-preventable disease from your unvaccinated child, you had better fear the wrath of God because my punishment to you will be much worse. Either vaccinate your child or keep him/her away from the non -aluminum foil helmet wearing, educated society.
Please. Your vaccinated child is shedding the very disease causing the outbreaks. It’s the intelligent unvaccinated families that are scared to bring their children around your kids. Who knows what DNA mutated organisms came through that needle. The unvaccinated kids are by far the healthiest kids around. Period.
you are not smart. you are wrong. also you were vaccinated, so maybe you’re right after all.
M.D. Ph.D MPH
Indeed I was vaccinated…in the late 60’s when the schedule was sound. Today’s recommended schedule is untested. Where is the hard science? Could you please show me a double blind actual placebo study on vaccine, where a vaccine is compared to a saline solution. Please, show me all of the studies on the current vaccination schedule and the outcome of multiple vaccinations. You can’t. They don’t exist.
Kids receive 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6 and 70 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18. To date, there has not been one single large scale scientific study of the neurological impact and biological impact and the cumulative effects of adjuvants and shot ingredients in children and adolescents.
As far as shedding, be sure to click the links in this article to see the science:
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/those-vaccinated-pertussis-vaccine-are-spreading-disease
M.D.
The vaccination crowd is getting belligerent. Her punishment will be worse than the wrath of God!? She must work at the post office.
Biggest argument for why I don’t vaccinate.
Why are you so scared of your child getting something if your child is vaccinated??
Isn’t that supposed to prevent them getting whatever disease you have vaccinated for?
Second argument: All kids in South Aucklabd N Z were encouraged to be vaccinated against meningitis. Problem was, the vaccine was supposed to be kept at a certain temperature to be effective. At Los of clinics, the vaccine was stored in the same fridge as the milk for the staff tea and coffee. Tests done revealed that a lot of the vaccines would have been ineffective. Now there will be lots of people thinking they are immune when in fact they are not. So glad I did not vaccinate my kids.
No vaccine works 100% of the time. But isn’t partial protection better than NO protection? If you don’t vaccinate your kids, there’s 100% chance they will lack antibodies to the disease they’re being vaccinated against. If you do vaccinate your kids, they are very likely to have the antibodies against the disease, usually between 90-99% for most vaccinations.
As you point out, you can actually tell if the vaccine “took” by looking for the antibodies in their blood. If you are concerned about a particular vaccine failing you can have your kid tested to see if they have detectable antibodies and know for certain whether or not the vaccine was effective.
I am not a full supporter of either side. Many medical studies are manipulated to produce results that favor the bias of the researcher; due to big pharma or radical anti vaccine funding. But even with some of my own skepticism about vaccines; I could not take the chance on my children. Purely, because vaccines have been given for years with very rare cases of severe harm. I do not see the harm in modifying the schedule of vaccination, allowing 2 shots instead of 3 or 4. Just to make it less traumatic and potentially safer (just in case too much vaccine preservative, does lead to issues).
Well said!!!
It’s websites like this from bloggers and not creditable at all and people flock to it and believe it.
Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. But your post on how parents are being lied to is a horribly put together blog like rant.
Many points you attempted to make, stating there is absolutely no links between vaccines and autism shows how uninformed you are.
Again I’m just another opinion but parents I wouldn’t take any advice from a site like this at all. Do credible research talk to doctors. Find out what’s in vaccines and research what they are made of so you know more. Read sites that are certified.
Don’t take advice from someone who is only pro-vaccine and the same for anti-vaccine. Use your brain and truly find out do you want to vaccinate or not.
I have 2 vaccine damaged grandchildren. We sure would have rather had chicken pox, measles, mumps and whooping cough, than a life time of Autism. The package insert for Tripedia vaccine, states Autism as an Adverse Event. Vaccines are neither safe or effective for everyone. Please read: http://www.livingwhole.org/a-parents-response-to-the-new-york-times-article-eliminate-vaccine-exemptions/
Patient: Doctor I’d like to know more about this before I take it.
Doctor: Why? It’s perfectly safe. I know about these things and it’s fine.
Patient: Well I believe I’ll look into it a little more before I take it.
Doctor: What are you? Some kind of a nut? It’s people like you that cause medical problems! You’re an idiot! Get out of here.
Patient: Well I guess you know best. I’ll take it. What’s it called again?
Doctor: Thalidomide.
Exactly!
Well said LR! It’s similar to “vaccines don’t prevent the illness, they make it so if you get the disease, it’s not as bad as it could be without the vaccine.” And that’s supposed to be a scientific statement, lol
First it was: “Take this vaccine, it will prevent illness.”
Then it was: “Take this vaccine, it may prevent illness.”
Then it was: “Take this vaccine, it may not prevent illness but it will make it less severe.”
Now it is: “Take this vaccine, it may not prevent illness, but it may make it less severe, and any adverse events are acceptable for The Greater Good.”
Notice a trend here?
Another good one:
Vaccines are based on the old weatherman trick. “tomorrow has a 50% chance of rain” if it rains I am right, if it doesn’t I am right. So, they always say it works in 90% of cases…..but if you get the disease, well you were just part of the unlucky 10% but “thank god you were vaccinated” cause it could have been “much worse” if you weren’t. The other trick is claiming the injuries are “rare” if they are so rare, how come I have read about a thousand different parents with the same sad and terrible story? But if their kids were vaccine damaged right after their vaccinations, well it is just one of those “rare” occurrences. whoopsidoodle. sorry your kid is mentally challenged for life, at least they didn’t have to stay home from school for a week.
I completely understand every parent wanting the best for their children. I was 17 when I had my first daughter. I will say I was completely ignorant to most anything that had to do with a baby. I quickly learned that there are so may things that happen in the first few months of a baby’s life. I remember when they put her on my chest and before she was even cleaned off they jabbed two needles in her legs and walked away. I was terrified, but trusted that the professionals knew what they were doing. I continued on the reccommended schedule for my daughter and was amazed at how many vaccines they would give her at one time. I felt like a monster holding her down while she got her shots. But again I trusted in the system. So naturally when I had my second daughter I did the same. When she was 2 months old she had surgery on her stomach for an abnormality in her stomach muscles (nothing to do with vaccines). We waited u til she was fully recovered before getting her shots. Those I noticed that she ran a little fever and was very sleepy for a couple of days. I was told it was normal, so I didnt think too much about it. She got better and we wnt on about our lives until her 4 month shots. After those she spiked a fever over 105 and had to be rushed to the hospital with difficulty breathing. I had never been so scare in my entire life. I related her situation to the vaccines because they could not find anything else wrong with her. After a few days of being on fluids and medication, her fever went down and her breathing returned to normal. I was told there was no possible way it was the vaccines. I believe that the first time around was a warning sign that her bofy could not tolerate the vaccines, and I ignored it because I put all my trust into the Drs. When I did that I almost lost my child. I began to do more research and seek a second opinion before we continued with any more vaccines. The second Dr and I decided it was not worth the risk to continue with vaccines. And she has no immune defficiancies that would have indicated a problem before. Now with my 3rd daughter I have chosen not to take that risk either. I work very closely with her pediatrician to make sure she stays healthy. When any of us do get sick, we stay in our home at all ti.es unless we are going to the Dr. . And make sure that they are cleared of any more illness before we return into public places. So I guess if you wanted to put me in the “anti” group you could. But I have seen both sides of vaccinating and not with my own children. And for our family it is the right choice. Just like foe another family vaccinating is right for theirs. I do not think that people who choose to vaccinate are horrible people putting poison in their bodies. I believe they are good parents who want what is best for their children. So I guess we are not so different after all. As with every decision in life, what is best for some, is not best for all.
Parents want to blame something when their children aren’t “perfect”, hence the reason they blame Autism on vaccinations!
When children who are vaccinated get an illness they are being vaccinated against (vaccinations arent fool proof) you can thank all these parents who are anti-vaccinations. And when these children who aren’t vaccinated get sick, you can thank their parents again.
Why are we seeing more cases of measles, chicken pox, polio today than 20 years ago? You got it, those wonderful parents who neglected to keep their children safe and help keep the world safe.
It has been scientifically proven that there is no direct link between Autism and vaccinations. Those that say there is, have no physical proof, just studies that have no final conclusion.
Shame on you parents who put your child in harms way voluntarily, let alone all the children they come in contact with. Please keep your children in your home and out of public places cause they’re a danger to others! There should be a law that all children must be vaccinated. It’s just another form of child neglect!
I’m interested in seeing the sites or articles a lot of people are researching to base their opinions on. We were always taught in College, that you should only reference or site what you read on credible sites. Anything that ends in .com, .org, .ca, is not considered a reliable source for information (as anyone can make or build a website, that is why the .gov, .edu are considered more reliable sources). Same as wikipedia, not a reliable source, and not accepted as a valid source for College/University research papers. Any good medical journal entries? Any university studies? We had access to these in school, and if I were on either side of the fence on this subject, would refer to those before forming an opinion. The unfortunate part, is many of the research studies, and comparative studies that people want to see, have been done, but these articles and papers are not readily available to the public (often College/University libraries have access to many of these journals). I am on the side of research, then think and make your own decision. I, personally, am FOR vaccines, but as a nurse, I have studied it, and based my opinion on that, and my experiences from work. We can debate until our faces turn blue about the pros/cons of vaccines…but please, if you’re going to give your opinion, make sure it is an informed one.
I think your rule is a little too cut-and-dried; I would neither trust everything on a .gov site nor discount everything on a .com site. I think you have to have tougher and more flexible rules: is this source doing actual research? Testing their conclusions? Do they change their opinion when new evidence comes in? Questions like that are going to be more useful.
Your point about public access to studies is very good. It’s a shame that so much of the research is behind a paywall; I think that may be one reason why anti-vaxers think their arguments are part of a scientific controversy, while scientists look at the data available to them and wonder why anyone would find the utility and safety of vaccines controversial.
I can appreciate this reply actually, and you make a good argument about the websites. Let me add to my comment. The websites should not be discounted, but rather backed up by additional sources that also agree/disagree with the information provided. This is how we were taught to approach our research in school (if we were to source one of those websites, we had to be able to back it up using a journal or, what the school would consider, an “accredited website”) I believe this is a fair argument.
And yes, the public access to studies is unfair, but at the same time, I can appreciate why the researchers made it like that, seeing as they spent lots of time working on it, and wouldn’t want it to fall into the wrong hands. A double edged sword really.
I agree, although I don’t know if it’s “the wrong hands” so much as “paying hands.” A lot of journals make money from institutional subscriptions (universities, hospitals, etc.). Opening research up to the public could deprive them of their business model.
I don’t know how it works for science journals (so take my comments about them with a grain of salt) but Lexis and Westlaw went through this with legal opinions. Judges, working for the public, write them and Lexis and Westlaw collect and report them, charging huge sums for access to the database. The public can get the raw materials at a library, but getting the useful online search tools is quite expensive. It’s hard to strike a good balance between letting the publishers make enough of a profit to keep the service going and providing equal access to materials originally generated by tax dollars.
Colin, it’s the same in science. The compromise that has been struck is that articles are supposed to be “open access” two years after publication, but not all publishers abide by this compromise.
When the chance of catching a given disease times the impact of catching it is less than the chance of side effects times side-effect impact, then the parent is doing their child a disservice by immunizing. Rare is the parent who would knowingly agree to prioritize the group (herd immunity) over the welfare of their own child. Nor should we expect them to, or label them despicable, as this article did. What we should do is make certain we drive the right-hand-side (side-effect chance times side-effect impact) so low that herd immunity is effective given rational (“selfish”) parental decision making. Critically, we must in our research produce data useful for such decision making, rather than just data about herd immunity and disease eradication, as it the lack of data in support of “selfish” decision making itself feeds distrust, and the anti-vac cause.
you don’t seriously think that kids these days really need the number of vaccines they’re getting?
none of our parents got as many vaccines as we have and most of them are healthy, are they not? anyone’s parents contracting measles out of the blue?
by the way, 19 people isn’t really an outbreak. that number is normal for each year.
we’re talking about a million dollar industry for pharmaceutical companies who don’t want marijuana legalized despite its proven medicinal properties.
I can understand having vaccines to prevent disease, that’s great. But if you completely trust all doctors and all pharmaceutical companies, then you’re just naive. they’re doing it for $$$$$$$$….
and yeah, poorer nations need help. the market is the reason they need help in the first place though. the market is not the solution. a “market for liberty” necessarily means that those who cannot participate in the market have no liberty. kids are dying in other countries from starvation and disease. you really think that if there were cures for diseases, they’d be giving them away for free? that’s not “profitable”. you think they care about preventing disease? then why is the government spending more money on war? why do people for some reason think that medicine isn’t going to have a negative effect everyone? there is always going to be someone what has a reaction to it. don’t defend corporations that are there to make profit simply because it’s worked in the past a certain way and then ignore the changes taking place present time.
the main argument of the article is to not trust “strangers” on the internet and trusting doctors.
turns out, doctors don’t trust each other. some are there to help, and some are there to make money. this article is an appeal to authority when the medical field itself is compromised
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=194592
Good job. Well said. I say if people want to vaccinate, the best thing they can do is follow the vaccine schedule from the 1970’s. Better yet, wait until 2 years of age and spread them out one at a time. This is logical and heck of a lot more scientific than the pin-cushion schedule today’s children have to endure. I feel sorry that our kids have to play Russian Roulette. What’s worse is that the vaccine-injury deniers don’t even care.
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=13EAAF22CDA367BB3C2F94D2CD90EF7B
Why is anonymous wasting valuable educated energy here?
This made me second guess vaccine
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=13EAAF22CDA367BB3C2F94D2CD90EF7B
Whoever said that unvaccinated kids are the blame because they do not get exposed and don’t build up an immunity!! Really?? That is the point of the vaccine. That is the exposure and your body develops antibodies towards the disease. Oh my goodness. I am no expert on vaccines but even I know that. Obviously, you have not done your research at all.
If these diseases are allowed to propagate they can mutate beyond what we are able to vaccinate against. That is why it is dangerous to all of society for people to choose not to vaccinate. One is potentially harming their entire community.
You contradict yourself right away in this. First you say its a lie that they say vaccines arent effective. Then you say vaccinated kids are in danger from unvaccinated kids because vaccines dont work…
Marry me Shank! Or maybe we can’t get married, for you are my identical twin.
Reblogged this on stumpthesquirrels and commented:
Thank you to this scientist, for bringing a coherent argument together with actual facts and source material. I too have neglected to comment on this issue directly, but this is worth your time and if you take the time, you will come out of reading it with a new understanding of the issue.
Perhaps a simpler solution: If you choose not to vaccinate your child is NOT eligible to receive medical care, particularly, since this likely means exposing many other health providers and children to the disease while seeking treatment AND if you choose not to vaccinate and someone contracts a disease from you or your child (which we can generally track easily now) you are legally (both criminal for negligence and reckless endangerment and civil for any damages) responsible for all harm that is done to that child and family. If YOU give your own unvaccinated child the disease as many parents do with pertussis you should be held accountable for endangering your child. If you can provide scientific evidence that 1) vaccines are unsafe or 2) vaccine preventable diseases are not dangerous- bring it, but I haven’t seen one study referred to, linked to, or cited by the anti-vaccine crowd on this page. If you want the references that support vaccination we can easily pull over 800 for you to read.
P.S. The made up statistic about 60% of physicians not being vaccinated made me laugh. I don’t think this is helping your cause of showing that the anti-vaccine crowd is educated :).
Totally agree
It’s interesting that if you read articles or scientific publications and come to the conclusion that vaccinations pose some threats to our children then you’re deemed a Google idiot that’s incapable of interpreting data or making an ‘informed’ decision. If, however, you read the same data/articles, etc. and come to the conclusion that vaccinations are the answer you’re deemed an intelligent, informed and highly educated individual. This argument, like so many others, most often results in name calling and choice bashing as opposed to important, meaningful and respectful discussion. It’s pointless.
I believe that if you put off your child’s immunizations tip’ they are two… the crap you would have gave them doesn’t go through the blood brain barrier to the brain. Just wait til’ they are two before giving them the immunizations. The gal I’d learned this from didn’t try to sell me any natural forms of anything for financial gain.
My ob/gyn told me not to getting any vaccinations…
Not to get** stupid phone
I’m a physician and I never get vaccinated. I was vaccinated completely as a child and again when entering the Navy. Not getting vaccinated is a personal choice, that isn’t based on any fear of vaccines. I find both sides of this argument amuzing. How many pro-vaccine advocates have had all of their booster shots? How many on the anti-vac side were vaccinated as a child and are fine now? Give kids a fighting chance. Do it on a delayed schedule. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Define ‘fine’.
Vaccines are a trillion dollar industry….don’t you see a conflict of interest here?…you’d have to be insane not to be just a little apprehensive.
Like many anti-vax talking points, this is a falsehood. The global vaccine market was worth less than $24 billion in 2013, a fraction of what you claim. To put that in perspective, the overall pharma market was worth just under $1 trillion in 2011. Even assuming the global market didn’t grow in the intervening years, vaccines were about two percent of pharmaceutical revenues. Big Pharma would make more money selling drugs to treat a big scary outbreak than they make in vaccines to prevent it.
Let me cite my source: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/big-pharma-supports-antivaccine-movement-conspirac-vaccines-maybe-not/
http://youtu.be/Eac7zJi_rDc Interesting about 19 years survival of cancer without chemo etc
Also watch. Cancer is big business about doctor burzinsky curing previously in curable brain cancers and what the FDA has been trying to do to stop him. It’s all about the money. The person who filmed the movie also has a website that will furnish all published data to back everything in the video. He even shows the official documentation by the FDA of approving drugs for cancer treatment and the Studies that they based their decisions on. Sabby the study show that the treatments they approved don’t even work. It is sad but true I also am a provider and I have participated in studies and I am well aware of how they are done and manipulated.
Antibiotics are big business too, but doctors aren’t dumping e. coli in the water supply…
Your information about Burzynski seems to come from the publicity machine built around him; for having supposedly discovered a miracle cancer cure, he seems to heal very few people and charge an awful lot of money. Some outside perspective:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/stanislaw_burzynski_four_decades_of_an_unproven_cancer_cure/
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/skeptic_activists_fighting_for_burzynskis_cancer_patients/
and more technical (and personal) information at http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/03/15/my-response-to-david-lauser-re-liza-cozad-stanislaw-burzynski-and-antineoplastons/
If Burzynski could cure cancer, wouldn’t his patients show statistically greater long-term survival rates than similarly situated patients outside his clinic? The fact that he can’t show such data is powerful evidence against his self-serving claims.
corporate media is owned by the major vaccine manufacturers. Everyone is so dumb.