In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.
Dear parents,
You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.
They say that measles isn’t a deadly disease.
But it is.
They say that chickenpox isn’t that big of a deal.
But it can be.
They say that the flu isn’t dangerous.
But it is.
They say that whooping cough isn’t so bad for kids to get.
But it is.
They say that vaccines aren’t that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children’s lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.
They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.
They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine. For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.
They will say that doctors won’t admit there are any side effects to vaccines.
But the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.
They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
It doesn’t. (The question of whether vaccines cause autism has been investigated in study after study, and they all show overwhelming evidence that they don’t.)
They say that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism.
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t been in most vaccines since 2001 anyway.
They say that the aluminum in vaccines (an adjuvant, or component of the vaccine designed to enhance the body’s immune response) is harmful to children.
But children consume more aluminum in natural breast milk than they do in vaccines, and far higher levels of aluminum are needed to cause harm.
They say that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (and/or the “vaccine court”) proves that vaccines are harmful.
It doesn’t.
They say that the normal vaccine schedule is too difficult for a child’s immune system to cope with.
It isn’t.
They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.
This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.
They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine.
They aren’t.
The truth is that vaccines are one of our greatest public health achievements, and one of the most important things you can do to protect your child.
I can predict exactly the sort of response I will be getting from the anti-vaccine activists. Because they can’t argue effectively against the overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines, they will say that I work for Big Pharma. (I don’t and never have). They will say that I’m not a scientist (I am), and that I’m an “Agent 666” (I don’t know what that is, but I’m pretty sure that I’m not one).
None of these things are true, but they are the reflexive response by the anti-vaccine activists because they have no facts to back up their position. On some level, deep down, they must understand this, and are afraid of the implications, so they attack the messenger.
Why are they lying to you? Some are doing it for profit, trying to sell their alternative remedies by making you afraid of science-based medicine. I’m sure that many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful. But as a certain astrophysicist recently said “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”. In the case of vaccine truthers, this is not a good thing. Good intentions will not prevent microbes from infecting and harming people, and the message that vaccines are dangerous is having dire consequences. There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.
In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learn what the scientific community says. Learn how the immune system works. Go read about the history of disease before vaccines, and talk to older people who grew up when polio, measles, and other diseases couldn’t be prevented. Go read about how vaccines are developed, and how they work. Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked. Read the numerous, huge studies that have explicitly examined whether autism is caused by the vaccine…and found nothing. (While you’re at it, read about the ongoing research to determine what IS the cause—or causes —of autism, which is not helped by people continuing to insist that vaccines cause it).
That may seem like a lot of work, and scientific papers can seem intimidating to read. But reading scientific articles is a skill that can be mastered. Here’s a great resource for evaluating medical information on the internet, and I wrote a guide for non-scientists on how to read and understand the scientific literature. You owe it to your children, and to yourself, to thoroughly investigate the issue. Don’t rely on what some stranger on the internet says (not even me!). Read the scientific studies that I linked to in this post for yourself, and talk to your pediatricians. Despite what the anti-vaccine community is telling you, you don’t need to be afraid of the vaccines. You should instead be afraid of what happens without them.
Edited to add: This video is an outstanding summary of many of these issues. I encourage you to watch it.
“Humans try to make sense of the world by seeing patterns. When they see a disease or condition that tends to appear around the time a child is a year or so old, as autism does, and that is also the age that kids get particular shots, they want to put those things together. Parents watch kids more carefully after they get shots. Sometimes they pick up on symptoms then. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean that one caused the other. This is why we need careful scientific studies.”
Note: For people coming via a direct link, please also feel free to participate in a follow-up discussion
here.
1/13/15: Edited to update broken hyperlinks. If you find any additional broken links, please don’t hesitate to let me know. –JR
4/19/16: Edited again to update more broken hyperlinks. If you find more, keep letting us know and we’ll keep fixing them. –CM
Violent metaphors 
Still no actual references cited. I think that speaks volumes. If you’re reading scientific studies that support your anti-vaccine propaganda why won’t you cite them?
Thank you!!! Wikipedia is not a reliable source. It is not accepted as a reference in Coleges/Universities here in Canada, nor are any .com, .ca or .org websites. Back up your opinions people!
*colleges
Let me start this off by saying I’m not the most educated of people. I haven’t done a ton of research. I’m an emotional mess and a fucking disaster. But, who wouldn’t be when you watched your perfectly healthy 5 1/2 month old daughter suffer and die from influenza A a little over 2 months ago. My daughter died from a vaccine preventable disease, it killed her. She was 2 weeks away from being elegible for the vaccine (yes I know she wouldn’t have been fully protected until she received the second shot a month after the first). 2 weeks. I live in a house with our other daughter, 3 young boys, my husband, my sister and her husband. Every other person had their flu shot and not a single one of us got it. We are all still alive and breathing while my sweet beautiful innocent baby is dead. So tell me vaccines don’t work. Until you watch your child suffer horribly, until you watch doctors and nurses furiously try to resuscitate her for far far too long, until you fly on a helicopter with your lifeless daughter as they continue to try and save her life, until you hold the dead body of your baby in your arms, until you experience all of these things from a vaccine preventable disease do not tell me vaccines don’t work. I have to live the rest of my life without my beautiful sweet Violet because most likely some person had the flu, went out, and coughed/talked/sneezed in the direction of Violet and I. My daughter died because some ignorant asshole decided not to get the flu shot. If you don’t believe this or think I’m making it up or think I work for “Big Pharma” go ahead and take a peek at my blog. Yes I’m an emotional grieving mother. Yes I probably shouldn’t post this, but I need people to know how their decisions affect others and potentially kill innocent babies.
Avioletlifeforme.blogspot.com
I’m sick and tired of reading about this cr*p. It’s a parents choice if they vaccinate or not. Science has been proven wrong countless times yet people always turn to science because they don’t want to think. You know what causes kids to get sick? Over-protective rules around hygiene.
I’m curious too. If the vaccines prevent diseases what’s to stop those diseases from mutating into something stronger?
And no I’m not anti or pro-vaccine.
Thank you for this post. I live in a city that’s had a measles outbreak and it’s so sad and terrifying. I have heard the stories from the elderly about what it was like back in the day. Your post was a good roundup of links and resources, now if only people would listen, but alas, I fear that they will not. I’ll be sharing and linking back here as often as I can.
Hey! It’s Shank! ::fist pump::
And I’m laughing at the person who censored “crap.”
The ironic thing is is that the writer is the one being lied too. And it’s wrong for her to say the ones pushing the movement are trying to push other products. I’m not. I’m just a mom wanting the best for my child and choosing not to poison my son, or compromise his natural immune system, and not possibly injuring him. Yet it is the vaccines that are causing those out breaks of measles, whooping cough, chicken pox and the like. If only these pro vaxers would wake up to the real truth of reality when it comes to vaccines. But of course they believe they are more knowledgeable without actually looking at the true scientific facts. Vaccines never saved us and they never will and they are the ones who are being tricked into believing they have saved humanity when in truth, their children have damaged immune systems just like many of our own children, as we learned the hard way on a much greater scale, they just can’t see it like we can. Stating the obvious that this “blog” is fully someone’s opinion it’s not backed up on medical science it is a scare tactic which is used right alongside with big Pharma and our government. Anyone can write a blog, I would like to see a pro VAX blog with medical science backing up that these vaccinations are safe and there are no side effects!!
The ironic thing is is that the writer is the one being lied too. And it’s wrong for her to say the ones pushing the movement are trying to push other products. I’m not. I’m just a mom wanting the best for my child and choosing not to poison my son, or compromise his natural immune system, and not possibly injuring him. Yet it is the vaccines that are causing those out breaks of measles, whooping cough, chicken pox and the like. If only these pro vaxers would wake up to the real truth of reality when it comes to vaccines. But of course they believe they are more knowledgeable without actually looking at the true scientific facts. Vaccines never saved us and they never will and they are the ones who are being tricked into believing they have saved humanity when in truth, their children have damaged immune systems just like many of our own children, as we learned the hard way on a much greater scale, they just can’t see it like we can. Stating the obvious that this “blog” is fully someone’s opinion it’s not backed up on medical science it is a scare tactic which is used right alongside with big Pharma and our government. Anyone can write a blog, I would like to see a pro VAX blog with medical science backing up that these vaccinations are safe and there are no side effects!!
Actually, it is backed up. All the little blue words, if you click on them, bring you to the site she sources her information on. She also attached her CV, which shows she is an anthropologist, not just a blogger.
Also, it is impossible to create a vaccine with absolutely no side effects, because every human being is different. There are no human beings with the same DNA. Every human will react differently to absolutely every treatment/pill/vaccine out there (due to allergies, and you won’t know you are allergic to something until you are exposed to it…this is why some people are allergic to certain things, and others aren’t. Also why some people respond to chemo, and someone with the same type of cancer, does not..every person’s genetic makeup is different, and will respond differently). There is always going to be a level of risk associated with every medication, every procedure, and every treatment out there. No, I do not have a “medical source” to cite this, this is just what you learn when you go to school in the medical profession, and quite honestly, is just basic biology and common sense.
Which source did you use when saying it is actually the vaccines causing the outbreaks? I believe if you are asking for proof and sources for people to back up their pro vax claims, then step up and cite where you found this nugget of info. And as you also mentioned, anyone can write a blog, so any source you add that ends is .com, .ca or .org is not considered a reliable source in many college and universities (here in Canada anyways) and needs to be backed up with a credible source, be it a medical journal, research study paper, etc.
I am not trying to discount your decision, because after all, it is your decision and I’m not trying to change your mind. I am interested in seeing your sources, that’s all.
They don’t mention the mercury – so this is a “lie of omission”
Actually I’m pretty sure they said no mercury have been in vaccines since 2003! How about you listen to all the facts instead of just the ones you like.
When my son was born, I did a little internet searching and came across the anti vaccine argument, I was concerned, so I asked my pediatrition. He explained how this argument was based a study that was later found to be fraudulent. I appreciated my doctors informed opinion and choose to get him vaccinated. I wish this was everyone’s story, because no amount of internet surfing will give me the knowledge and experience a doctor who spent 10 years in university has. My point is, asking questions is fine and good, but listening to the answer, is something a few need to work on.
Yes, parents, we are indeed being lie to. See what the world’s leading immunologists are said about vaccination last week:
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/new-autoimmunity-syndrome-linked-aluminum-vaccines
The “ASIA” claim you’re linking to seems to be a pet project of Dr. Schoenfeld, who has something of a checkered reputation when it comes to vaccines. For example, he is editor-in-chief of a journal that accepted and apparently was going to run an article from the Geiers, “who have no demonstrable expertise in the field of autoimmunity, and whose research involves subjects completely unrelated to the focus of the journal.”
That article got retracted, and Dr. Schoenfeld obstructed efforts to find out why (the interest arose from the significance of a retraction): http://web.archive.org/web/20110514140345/http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/136/
Some additional information: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/
One time, at a conference for animal science, a presentation was made as to why male rabbits should be used for ocular procedures over females. The presentation that followed explained why female rabbits should be used for the same procedures instead of males. This was not planned, nor did they bicker like children about the difference in opinion afterward. Years from now, they will post statistics regarding how much time we all wasted doing this stuff. Make your choice, and then get over it?
Not as simple as making a choice, and moving past it. The point is that people who do not make the same choice as you are being effected by these choices. So if the anti-vaccers are wrong, it is not just something that we can tolerate and move on. It has the potential to be a deadly mistake.
Sorry to be brusque, but yeah, duh, not as simple (making some all-encompassing generalization seems to be the trend on these types of forums). If it was, we wouldn’t be arguing about it endlessly over the internet. My main point was that even if something seems like it should be done because it makes sense and has data to support it (i.e. getting vaccinated), someone, somewhere is going to come up with something that opposes it. Things aren’t so cut and dry, even in clinical research, that one thing would be without at least one piece of data that shows or is construed as a (potential) pitfall. Don’t get me wrong here, I’ve been poked with enough vaccines in my life that I don’t have much to worry about if these people choose not to be vaccinated. I would have been incensed if my parents chose to not vaccinate me when the time was appropriate. We have to weep for the future, because so many will not be able to because of choices like this.
Remember, science can bring us progress. It’s the human part of it that slows it down. :]
How does someone not getting a vaccine affect you or yours who do get vaccines? If the vaccines are as efficient as they are claimed to be then there should be no worry.
The answer is they can’t. The unvaccinated cannot affect the vaccinated by their own logic. However, the freshly vaccinated can “shed” and threaten the health and well-being of both the previously vaccinated and unvaccinated. This is exactly what is occurring in recent outbreaks.
Yes they can! Lets say you (an adult) are not vaccinated for whopping cough and you are around a baby that is not yet vaccinated b/c they are not yet old enough to be. YOU can make that child sick and could even kill them.
Uh…no. They don’t “shed.” All childhood vaccines are inactive, or “dead.” Which means they are dead. Dead dead. They cannot infect the child receiving them, and they certainly can’t “shed” off a vaccinated child to infect others. Can dead people go around punching others? Nope, they are dead. Unless you’re living inside a zombie movie. “But wait!” You say!my child got sick and ran a fever after receiving a vaccine. Yes, but viruses and bacteria don’t cause fevers. A fever is tool that your immune system uses. A fever after a vaccine is a good thing. It shows that your immune system is working properly, and responding appropriately by recognizing foreign cells and planning to attack them. One way it does this is to heat up your internal temperature so that it provides a inhospitable environment for viruses/ bacteria which destroys RNA and proteins, making it difficult for them to replicate themselves. Unfortunately, the body does not realize that the viruses are dead and already pose no threat. All your body can do is recognize foreign invaders and construct antibodies to that particular foreign invader. So the next time you come into contact with that (living) virus, your body can rapidly identify it and already knows what antibodies are needed to destroy it before it is ever able to make you sick. Who is more likely to win a battle against space invaders? An army who has no information about the aliens and it totally unprepared? Or the army who 10 years ago, found a crashed spaceship contains a dead alien and had plenty of time to study this alien, study how it moves and what weaknesses it has, and has therefore already designed weapons that will be affective against this type of alien, should they encounter more in the future?
Not all vaccines are “dead.” Several are live viruses. When our friend’s immuno-suppressed child visits, she always asks how recently my children received vaccinations. There are a list of vaccines that do not “shed,” so those are o.k. for her son to be around. There is another list of “live ones” such as chicken pox and measles, which he is not to be exposed to. If I know she’s visiting around the time our kids are due for shots, I opt to get the ones that are o.k. for the friend’s child to be around and we save the other for after the visit is over.
Consideration works both ways. As a “vaxer” I try to be considerate of those who b/c of health issues have to be “non-vaxers.”
Also, most of my children received the LIVE polio vaccine, as did I as a child. It’s only been in the last 15 years or so that the killed polio vaccine was offered as an option and eventually replaced the live vaccine. It was because of problems with the live vaccine that it was replaced.
Also, back in the 90’s we were told that one chicken pox vaccine provided a lifetime of immunity. Within 10 years it was determined that a booster was needed.
While our children are fully vaccinated, we are well aware that the protocol changes over time. And what may seem best today maybe revised in a year or two.
It is not unreasonable to question and exercise caution as protocols and recommendations change over time.
To BLahhhhh, You are so very inaccurate with this statement, “All childhood vaccines are inactive, or “dead.” Which means they are dead. Dead dead.” Look up varicella, rotavirus, MMR, and flu (nasal spray). Nice try though.
Amen!
There’s a very small window of shedding and you’d have be immune compromised to get sick from “shed” the amount she’s is less than in an actual vaccine…theoretically you could possibly vaccinate someone through shedding. But again only the people with weak immune systems could have a problem and the person would have to breath/kiss/handle a poopy diaper to transmit since the shedding is even less than the amount of a vaccine. It’s important to get some of these vaccines to keep herd mentality and protect those that can’t get vaccinated. These diseases are current in other countries and people visiting bring them back.
My cousin had measles 55 years ago and has issues from it today. My uncle also had polio and has never been able to run.
Exactly! I’d even go one step further and say they guarantee what flu, and what disease will be prevalent this year as THEY introduce them into the environment through “live-virus” vaccines. The shedding is not only possible, it happens and they even admit it if you read the fine print. The fact that it CAN be passed is all you need to know that it IS passed…weakened immune or not…it CAN and IS passed this way. Where there would have been no virus present in a community, there is now a potential for an outbreak due to vaccination. The vaccinations start the outbreaks, they don’t prevent them. The correlation between vaccinations and outbreaks are far too coincidental to not be related.
It’s like you didn’t even read the article…
THANK YOU! I had prepared a long argument back to some of the preceding comments but figured it would be as much of a waste of time as the article itself in their eyes…
I article spews very misleading “facts” and links to very outdated sources. It is very easy to extract nothing from this blog. Terribly written and terribly cited.
This, and all other pro-vaccine articles are a bunch of miscalculated and heaped up crap. YOU are the very ones being lied to. The fear campaign running rampant in this country is dispicable, and it is sad to see the sheep fall one by one for this garbage. The big pharmaceutical companies are and have been spouting this nonsense to scare people into vaccination. They want it to be mandatory. They love this stuff from you people, because they see that their efforts are not in vain. Wake up and realize that the pharma companies want more profit from their vaccines. People have lived for a long time without vaccines, and they will continue to survive without vaccines. Grow up and stop being keynote speakers for your pharma overlords. It’s about money – NOT DISEASE.
Perhaps you should read the entire article where it states that there some who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. And there have NEVER been claims of 100% effectiveness. Foolish decisions to not vaccinate put others at risk. Of course, anyone who is willing to risk the health and life of their own child won’t give a flying patootie about other children either. Ideology first and all that nonsense.
Not wanting to be injected with viruses, mercury, and other poisons is a perfectly legitimate medical reason.
It doesn’t . It does affects your loved one who is one of those rare people who are totally ineligible for vaccination due to other medical problems. When that ineligible person catches measles or whatever from the non-vaccinated person, that loved one of yours could die or be made seriously ill, by reckless others who decide to not partake in the vaccine. Simply put, the unvaccinated person is a poisoned arrow pointing at any others they might contact who are unprotected and have no choice.
Jeremiah, I will give you one very important instance. When a person who has not received a vaccine against measles, contracts the disease and is at the contagious stage and then comes in contact with a pregnant woman. Depending on what stage of the pregnancy she is in can determine how her unborn child will be affected. Measles can cause deafness and blindness.
If you’d bothered to read the article you’d already know the answer to this question. Herd immunity is a well-known concept that states that if the majority of people who are quote unquote normal make responsible choices about their health then the few who are not normal, and therefore not eligible, are safer by association. Essentially the normal people act as a buffer, a society-sized immune system, if you will, for the weaker individuals.
Your responsibility here is a direct result of the social contract. You sacrifice a little bit of your personal freedom for the privileged of being allowed to associate with other people. In exchange for being allowed to participate in society you agree to adhere to certain standards. It’s the same set of ideals that says it’s wrong to steal from or murder people. You agree to make reasonable effort to help keep your fellow man safe. THAT’S how your choices effect others. If you want to go live in a cabin somewhere, completely segregated from the rest of society, then feel free to openly expose yourself to otherwise preventable ailments, but as long as you wish to participate you have an obligation to do what you can to preserve the herd. Refusing to accept vaccines when you are otherwise able to do so is socially irresponsible. It’s incredibly selfish considering how much we depend on each other to do the right thing. It’s incredibly stupid considering the tremendous amount of evidence in favor of vaccines.
And just what is “normal”?? Is it normal to do something, because everyone else is doing it? Who are you to believe anyway? One day it’s “take this, it’s good for you”, and two years down the road, there’s a class action lawsuit, because “they” were wrong!!
I completely agree with that statement, very well said!
Babies who are not of age to receive vaccines are affected the most
Honest to God, babies get vaccinated from birth… what babies do you speak of! And someone who can’t get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, could probably die from a cold.
Organ recipients , who take immunity suppressants, would also be affected! And no they don’t die from a cold. Even if the disease doesn’t kill them, it could end in a long stay in the hospital and a very long and painful recovery!
Read about “Herd Immunity”
LOL, “heard immunity” More statist talking point garbage.
The article did say that its never 100 %…
Here’s another interesting point. An impeccably-credentialed, pro-vaccine PhD immunologist said that it’s pointless to administer drugs intended to stimulate antibody production to babies who are too young to produce antibodies. Infants in their first year mostly depend on generalized, non-specific immunity, including (hopefully) immunoglobulins from breast milk, to protect their young bodies from infection. They do not produce antibodies of their own until about age one.
Despite this basic fact, the medical establishment insists administering a total of 19 shots, containing 24 vaccines, to infants on the 2, 4 and 6 month pediatric visits. Somehow, the basic facts of human physiology and development do not apply to vaccines. She also knows that anyone who speaks the truth about vaccines is savaged by the medical establishment and their compliant lapdogs in the mainstream media. It is professional suicide for anyone in conventional medicine to question the unquestionable (yet unproven) assumptions about vaccines: that they are effective, safe and necessary.
The science is fairly clear that for the first year of life, probably, that the immunization is not stimulating the kind of response we expect it to stimulate. So what’s the rationale of giving vaccines to infants? The idea is that you are training the parent to bring their child in at all the pediatric wellness visits, and that it’s only the year visit that actually is truly important. But that for most parents you are not going to get them to bring their kid in if they don’t come in at two months, four months, and six months. And so it’s actually more of a training thing.
How’s that for herd immunity.
May I as the name of your impeccably-credentialed, pro-vaccine PhD immunologist and and links to any of her studies to back this claim? I was immunized as an infant and when I returned to graduate school at age 42 I had titers drawn and had full immunity. How does she explain that?
You’re awesome
One reason is that my younger child and infant are not old enough yet to be immunized. Therefore if someone makes an uninformed choice and does not vaccinate, they are putting my children at risk. There is NO reason that measles and other preventable infectious diseases should be making a comeback in our country, yet they are. Please read the research. Some major “studies” the anti-vaxxers rely upon in their arguments have flat out been proven wrong. Also, do a quick google search on the anti-vaxxer’s queen, Jenny McCarthy, and you’ll see how wrong her propaganda turned out to be.
Because getting significantly vaccinated lowers the risk of getting infected (enough that it’s worth doing) but doesn’t completely eliminate it. If I choose to get vaccinated and then an unvaccinated person comes along with a virus, my odds will be better because I got vaccinated but said unvaccinated person could still infect me, and their choice not to get vaccinated (or their parents’ choice if they’re young enough) would likely be at fault. Secondly, there are those with compromised immune systems for whom getting vaccinated really would be harmful, and choosing to increase your own risk of infection by denying yourself vaccination in turn significantly increases their risk of infection.
When someone is not getting a vaccine, there are at least 2 negative effects on the whole community: (1) When less that 90% of the population is protected against some vaccine preventable diseases like measles, it may cause severe outbreak among the non-vaccinated group, (2) When a non-vaccinated person get sick with the disease, there are involved costs not only for him but for the whole society for the treatment and long term care if the illness leads to disabilities…
In the case of a global effort such as for polio eradication, the resistance to vaccination in some communities like in Northern Nigeria or tribal zone in Pakistan is a big obstacle for the success. As a result, polio is still making children disable in some parts of the world especially among the poor, and the thread of a come-back in “poilo free” countries is permanent for the future generations!
Wondering if you actually read the article. This was taken from above:
They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.
This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.
And what if they’re right?? I’m just saying…
And likewise, if the vaxxers are wrong, it has the potential to be a deadly mistake. Try to play devil’s advocate with this subject. Try to see a different point of view [this is directed at everyone], what if your child has a vaccine related injury? Should it be dismissed because vaccines are GOOD and vaccines PROTECT? Are vaccines still good if they cause injury in some? What if the things that cause the injury [outside of allergic reaction] can be removed from vaccines and have them still be effective?
Jade Thompson, even more so than if the pro-vaccine community is wrong, if the anti-vaccine community is wrong, then the consequences are MUCH more dire. Hence why many keep repeating the “weighing risks vs. benefits” argument. We all as humans have MUCH more at stake if we choose to ignore vaccines as one of the greatest public health achievements in the history of mankind than if we choose to have faith in them.
In the original description of herd immunity, the protection to the population at large occurred only if people contracted the infections naturally. The reason for this is that naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime. The vaccine proponents quickly latched onto this concept and applied it to vaccine-induced immunity. But, there was one major problem – vaccine-induced immunity lasted for only a relatively short period, from 2 to 10 years at most, and then this applies only to humoral immunity. This is why they began, silently, to suggest boosters for most vaccines, even the common childhood infections such as chickenpox, measles, mumps, and rubella.
Then they discovered an even greater problem, the boosters were lasting for only 2 years or less. This is why we are now seeing mandates that youth entering colleges have multiple vaccines, even those which they insisted gave lifelong immunity, such as the MMR. The same is being suggested for full-grown adults. Ironically, no one in the media or medical field is asking what is going on. They just accept that it must be done.
That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.
If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.
I had measles as a small child (in the 80s) and I still to this day have to have boosters because I lose immunity. I will get it one year, the next I need a booster, and the next and the next. My last shot has lasted 9 years.
Immunity can be lost even when you naturally had something.
ThANK YOU!!! Exactly.
To hell with “vaccine” supporters, because you want to MANDATE and FORCE people (even your own children) to get shots full of monkey guts, mercury, formaldehyde and deadly disease causing substances. A bunch of the “vaccinated” kids are giving people pox, and soldiers getting loads of vaccines have given their whole families pox.
Thank you, Bob F!!!
Did you know there is more formaldehyde in a pear (organic and otherwise) than in all the vaccines a child receives during the first 5 years of their life (if on schedule). And have you even looked into WHY they use some of the ingredients they do use? Would you prefer human “guts”? And the article clearly corrects the myth that mercury exists still in most vaccines. Oh, and my husband is a soldier. A physician in the armed forces, in fact, and we’re as healthy as can be. No “pox” because we’ve been vaccinated. Oh wait, nope. That’s right. I didn’t get the chicken pox vaccine when I was a kid. I got it from my brother who got it from a “chicken pox party”. I have scars still to prove it, cause you know… how do you stop a 3 year old from scratching in the night? And guess what, I have to get boosters in another 10-15 years to ward off shingles which is a complication from having chicken pox. My husband, who never had the chicken pox, but got the vaccine (it was new when we were kids) won’t have to have that shingles booster. Lucky him.
Wow, your husband is a physician, that means everything, you must be SO proud…Oh, and he’s in the armed forces, WOW!!!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhdh3UpK0Yo My husband is the real hero, Mrs, Military wife, PSHHHH
I notice that your link claims that this man was court martialed for refusing experimental vaccines. His own writeup says nothing about the vaccines he refused being experimental, and a press report refers only to flu and anthrax vaccines.
http://vaccinebattles.wordpress.com/
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120801/NEWS03/708019872/-1/news
The press report also notes that the court martial was his own choice.
Finally, I notice that your link goes straight to the heart of much of the anti-vax sentiment: it’s loaded with direct push ads for supplements and other “alternative” nostrums.
One hand pushes fear of medical treatment, the other sells an alternative to that medical treatment.
How does that bile taste?
Pox on you!
Seriously! Is it really necessary to say things like this on a forum about vaccines – Shame on you!!
EXACTLY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhdh3UpK0Yo My husband was a medic in the Army and we went through a nightmare when he stopped taking and giving the vaccines. Check out his interview with Mike Adams on Infowars.
All of which has nothing to do with the point of this blog. I do not agree that, “…many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful.” There is simply too much information available to give them that out. I also do not agree that, “Make up your mind and get over it.” is a viable way to address this issue. It is, in fact, a remarkably stupid and dangerous way to address it. On the science side of this question, the time is not wasted. Trying to save the lives of children is never time wasted. Despite Americans’ obsession with all things equality, the ignorance of the anti-vaxxers is not equal to science, and should not receive the sort of “you pikkem” equality you suggest with vaccination supporters. Anti-vaxxers should be laughed off the stage at every opportunity.
Many of the links provided just went to other blog posts or sites that are “pro-vaccine”). How is that using proper sources? SIte the actual sources from now on or sites that are simply providing un-biased research, please. Herd immunity should be in full effect right now. According to the CDC, we are ABOVE the levels needed for “herd immunity” (70-80%). Our country is at a 90%+. So, with this being fact, why is the “herd immunity” theory NOT working?
I did my research. I guess you can say I got my degree from Google U. I read the vaccine inserts, I read books, and I also looked at studies (done with more than 12 kids) online to make our decision. We do not opt out of all the vaccines, but we do opt out of a few. But all of that should not matter since herd immunity is at an all-time high.
You are relying on the rest of us to protect your kids. That is not right. You should do the same. If you do not then I hope your kids get sick and you suffer the guilt of knowing you could have prevented it.
^^^^ What a sick “human being”!
why would you ever wish a kid get sick?
That is a disgusting remark to make!!!! Some children CAN’T have vaccines due to being immune suppressed or allergic to some of the components of the vaccine itself. Take it from someone who knows what it is like to worry that your child will get sick when there is an outbreak of one of these diseases because they couldn’t have the vaccine!
That’s not nice
You wish for someone’s child to get ill to teach them a lesson? I hope this is a case of not realizing what you said….
everything comes down to choice unfortunately
Thank you, for wishing my child to get sick. Especially since he isn’t able to have the vaccines, per his pediatrician. Grow up or keep your mouth shut.
That’s so messed up. Why would you say that about not getting vaccinated. You’re horrible
What a completely fascist remark. You belong in a George Orwell book. You must be an Ameri-cretin
Yet another fallacy spread by the anti-vaccine crowd. The problem is that people tend to hang out with similar minded people. it reinforces our personal beliefs. Whether it’s about religion, positions on abortion or gun control, or even vaccines, we like to hang out with similar minded people. That means parents who are anti-vaccination tend to hang with parents that are anti-vaccination and their children play together. So one child exposure could put a group at risk. This is why we’re seeing these serious diseases at their highest level in decades in the US. Here;s an update for you. Just ask any parent whose child received permanent brain damage as a side effect measles or another preventable vaccine – how that herd immunity is working for them: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-outbreak-in-orange-county-california-worst-in-decades/
More fear and propaganda. Hardly anyone is actually “anti-vaccine.” The most educated professionals I know in medicine are “pro-choice.” BIG difference. Only sheep would follow today’s untested vaccine schedule. Most doctors I know follow the schedule from the 1970’s and their families are doing great. These are very conventional physicians working in large hospital settings. The whole herd immunity is a myth by way of artificial means. You simply cannot protect the “herd” with vaccines. This ONLY occurs with natural exposure and life-time immunity. CBS news? Okay, real credible. The measles outbreak has NOTHING to do with the unvaccinated. The science is showing VACCINE FAILURE to be the cause. The outbreaks are occurring in highly vaccinated areas (NY and Cali). Notice that states that have high unvaccinated population (like Michigan) do not have outbreaks? Hmmm. This failure has been going on for at least 25 years and it will only get worse. Thanks MMR!
Besides, measles is benign in developed nations if one is actually eating healthy and taking care of themselves. NO measles death in over a decade in the United States. It’s as scary as chicken pox. Most vaccine injured kids would prefer a fever and rash for a week..followed by lifetime immunity that actually helps the herd.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/anti-therapeutic-action/vaccination-measles
The area of California seeing the highest incidence of measles is also the area with a high population of unvaccinated children. In addition, that same area sees many travelers and immigrants from other countries experiencing measles outbreaks such as the Philippines and Vietnam.
Oh, and I personally know a child left neurologically devastated from the chicken pox. Not as “benign” as you think.
Why are there “travelers” and “immigrants’ there? Oh, I know. Because the government of USA does not prevent illegal aliens anymore, but instead rewards them by giving them our money, jobs, and benefits far beyond what we get even as citizens.
It makes sense that a traveler or immigrant may have triggered the outbreaks in Cali and NY. I believe the last measles death in the USA was an old man who was a world traveler. Back in 2003.
Bob F, I think they’re called tourists…definitely not aliens…unless you know different because you are an alien yourself.
I know a child(ren) who is permanently damaged from a vaccine. Not as “safe” as you think.
All vaccines are preventable, eduardo. Just say no. And hang out with other people that say no. And we will get representation for people that do not want to inject children with disease causing substances, mercury, and formaldehyde. We will get representation for people that do not want their children genitally mutilated for “hygiene”. We will find people that want to drink fresh cold clean water without “flouride” added to it. We want to breathe fresh clean air without aluminum compounds sprayed in it to “prevent global warming”.
The anti vaccine crowd? As opposed to what, the childless statist sycophants? I left NYC to get away from you hipster zombies. You can’t stand it when a woman comes into Starbucks with an Autistic child while you’re smelling each other’s farts. Most of these kids getting sick are already vaccinated. while the un- vaccinated are healthier and robust. That is a scientific fact. http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/studies-outside-the-u-s-show-unvaccinated-children-healthier-than-vaccinated-children/
I’m sorry but “Google U” does not even begin to compare with a real degree in science or medicine. Do you know anything about real scientific research? No study with only 12 children is going to provide statistically significant results. For it to be valid, there must be at least 30. Had you taken a real statistics course at Google U, you would know this. Don’t assume that you are educated about science, medicine, and vaccines just because you know how to Google.
I read books.. Really good for you moron.
You misunderstood. They said, “more than 12” and didn’t mean 13.
You are gross. You should do whatever you can to protect your children! If I was your child I would want a refund……. Sad.
The reason herd immunity “isn’t working” is because it isn’t as simple as just considering the total population vaccinated. While our country may be at 90% (a value for which you site no source for), what really matters in herd immunity is the people an individual is surrounded by. Maybe of that 90%, 92% of people over 30 are vaccinated but only 60% of kids under 10 are vaccinated (these aren’t real numbers; just giving an example). If your kids were hanging out with 45-year-olds at school all day, then maybe herd immunity would be sufficient. But when some 40% of their classmates aren’t vaccinated, herd immunity breaks down.
First, I grant you that blog posts are no more or less valid on their own than any other blog post/news article/etc. However, several of the links lead to scientific studies, or reports on them (granted, the latter offer the writer an opportunity for commentary). Second, the “herd immunity” theory only suggests that the likelihood of *epidemic* outbreak is decreased by high rates of vaccination, but does not guarantee anything; more to the point, it is completely unacceptable if one person dies from a preventable disease because another person made an ill-informed decision, let alone the development of a catastrophic level of infection. As noted by the California CDC, outbreaks of preventable diseases, including fatalities, are occurring at rates higher than seen for several decades in areas in which higher numbers of parents are deciding not to vaccinate. In other words, diseases do happen, and they are being spread within communities that are still within the recommended limits of the “herd.”
Dear Tia,
One number describing vaccination rates in the whole United States or even more locally by state can only tell us so much. There are pockets of communities within our general population who refuse vaccination at higher rates than others. Since you are looking at the CDC to support your statements, also please see this other report on measles, as an example of reasons why herd immunity is imperfect. It is not because vaccinations and herd immunity don’t work; it is because herd immunity needs to be worldwide and evenly distributed across every single person. http://www.cdc.gov/measles/outbreaks.html
Thanks!
Herd immunity requirements depend on a few things. There isn’t a golden number for all vaccines, and all illnesses. It depends on how contagious a virus is, how it’s transmitted, and the levels of resistance in those who have antibodies to the virus. The USA is at “herd immunity” level on many vaccines… if you look at the nation as a whole. There are population “pockets,” however, that have far lower vaccination rates, and that’s where you’re seeing outbreaks. There are also people who, for whatever reason (lack of health insurance?) are not getting their boosters, so they THINK they’re immunized, but they failed to get the boosters as adults, and their antibody titers went down to the point where they were less effective.
The 70% to 80% statistic you just quoted is actually far too low for effective herd immunity against many diseases (seriously, where are you getting your sources???), and it’s not the same for all diseases/vaccines.
Oh… you did “research”. More research than my husband who spent 4 years in pre-med undergrad work, 4 years in medical school, 8 years in residency and fellowship, and every year obtaining additional education and training via CME (that’s 16+ years)? You know more than he does? And that’s just one medical doctor… Think of the millions of cumulative hours of “research” from doctors nation, nay, worldwide. Oh, and on google no less and proudly site “Google U” as a credential. Did you only read the anti-vaccine sites? What else were they attempting to sell you? Oh, and I see that you read some of the books they were selling too? Buy any supplements from any of them too? Because, you know, these guys exist only to provide truth (and are also trying to make an “honest” buck).
I’m sorry to be snarky, but… really? Is this a joke? Truly, I agree they should have linked to original studies and peer reviewed journals, etc., but its your 2nd paragraph that just made my draw drop…
And I imagine your PhD in virology, immunology, and chemical engineering from Google U make you more the qualified to understand this research and weed through the pointless books.
Hi Tia,
Don’t suppose you could tell us which ones you went with and which ones you avoided?
Just thinking it would be good to have some direction to go in from those who went before!
Thanks
Here it is as delicately as I can put it. The fact that my son(going on 16) is UTD on all his vaccines and doesn’t have autism or any illness he was vaccinated for is good enough proof to me that vaccines work. Bottom line is if MY kid gets sick because one of you know-it-alls refused to vaccinate your brats…I’m going to sue you for every penny you have. Have a nice day.
That’s stupid. You can’t sue someone for not vaccinating. Not to mention you should really do some research before spewing your crazy talk since vaccines are not 100% and your vaccinated child could still catch the disease he was vaccinated against.
Good Luck, especially if the child/parent has an exemption.
Hopefully you sue the vaccinated child that infects your child as well, bc it is well known that vaccinated children can serve as silent reservoirs and spread diseases. Pertussis anyone?
Your awfully worried for having a vaccinated child.
Good luck with that.
But..but..if you’re convinced vaccines work right? That vaccinating your child is the absolute best choice, why would you blame someones UN-vaccinated child? Why not sue the manufactures of the vaccines because they failed to perfect your child? Kinda flawed logic there, no?
What about all the adults that are not up to date on their boosters? Technically they are unvaccinated. You can blame them too. Sue everyone! Good luck
And try to get a vaccine as an adult! The cost is outrageous!
Contact your local health department. My local one does low cost vaccinations for adults who need to get up to date, regardless of income, for all of the major stuff. (Measles, mumps, polio, etc.)
My workplace gives free whooping cough boosters to new mums whilst in hospital postnatally, also MMR if their immunity has been shown to be low during pregnancy. We also educate everyone to have the grandparents get a booster if needed. As health care workers, it’s our duty to promote good health in the community and prevent illness. Just like promoting the dangers of smoking, educating about correct child restraints in cars, and encouraging breast feeding……it’s no different. Also, in Australia, parents have part of their centerlink payment withheld if they can’t prove their child is up to date with their vaccinations, so the government do their part as well.
Many childcare center managers won’t allow children in unless they can show a record of their immunizations up to date, or a medical exemption.
Perhaps if they took government payments away completely if parents are being irresponsible, there may be more action, I look forward to the day it is policed more carefully, I think that day will come sometime with the outbreaks in preventable diseases.
I had to get a handful of vaccinations because work that I do takes me into hospitals (and many hospitals require that contractors / vendors must demonstrate full vaccination), and my insurance paid for all of them, (even though I was probably current on a couple, but lost my medical records when I moved several years ago). This is a pretty specious argument.
Yes this is why “herd immunity” as it is defied is bull shit. The “herd” of school aged children may be at proper herd level but after those vaccines wear off (do people who love vax w/o question realize this?)… we have many adults not vaccinated ever against xyz issue or most with vaccines that have worn off. The reality of the % of people who are UTD on any given vax is really super low and yet “outbreaks” of 11 kids in a year (not hundreds or thousands) in a large metropolis happen. Herd immunity is a crock of shit. The vax either took for your kid or it didn’t, there is no “herd”.
Many of us older folks have natural immunity because we actually had these diseases as children. Some of us more than once.
If only children were allowed to experience the wonderful benefits of lifetime immunity instead of the band-aid artificial immunity for everything under the sun..with a side of autoimmunity.
I recently found out I had NO immunity to measles at 43 yrs old. I had NO IDEA that adults needed and MMR booster. I only found out because of nursing school I wonder how many adults have NO immunity and just don’t know it/
The only adults that have lifetime immunity were the ones that actually got these benign childhood infections. Those that were vaccinated over 10 years ago have no protection. Careful with that MMR booster. Pay attention to how you feel afterward if you have to get it.
its every adults responsibility to get up to date with which boosters they need, go to the doctor and find out, as you could be putting others at risk. Common ones which come to mind are hep B and whooping cough. There is more education needed in the adult community about this issue. Unlike kids, we are big enough to make choices about our own health.
Great point. I’ve been saying this all along. Most extreme pro-vaxers are don’t even follow their own advice. Even the CDC came out with a report in Feb saying that only 14.2% of adults are up to date with Tdap. If they are going to blame the herd or outbreaks on something, they need to take a hard look into the mirror and ask themselves, “Have I had my boosters lately?” That means every 5-10 years, without exception.
“Vaccination coverage levels among adults are low,” the CDC researchers wrote. “Improvement in adult vaccination is needed to reduce the health consequences of vaccine-preventable diseases among adults and to prevent pertussis morbidity and mortality in infants, who need the protection afforded by the Tdap vaccination during pregnancy recommendation.”
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6305a4.htm?s_cid=mm6305a4_w
Umm yeah they can’t sue the doctor or pharmaceutical companies. The National Child Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 protects the manufacturer from liability for unavoidable adverse side effects as long as the vaccine is properly prepared and accompanied by the proper directions and warnings. [14]
The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) also protects your doctor from any liability if a vaccine injures your baby.
If you decide to vaccinate your child, you do so at your own risk.
I’ve corrected this misapprehension several times already; ant-vax rhetoric relies heavily on such talking points, which are false but sound true when they’re repeated often enough and forcefully enough.
The language you quote, “as long as the vaccine is properly prepared and accompanied by the proper directions and warnings,” belies your false claim that it’s impossible to sue the doctor or manufacturer. The Act only forecloses one of three types of product liability suits; defective manufacturing and failure to warn cases are still possible.
And of course, parents whose children are injured by vaccines (it’s very rare, with less than a thousand cases per year filed despite many millions of vaccines given in that same time period) can still be compensated under the NVICP even if they don’t or can’t sue in normal court. The NVICP actually makes it substantially easier for parents to be compensated, in fact–for table injuries they don’t even have to prove that the vaccine *caused* the injury. All they have to show is that they have an injury and that it happened after a vaccine. In addition, the NVICP pays for their lawyers so they don’t need to pay out-of-pocket to file a case in the first place.
NVICP plaintiffs are actually in a much better position than litigants in normal courts, where it could take years and millions of dollars to litigate a case.
Wow, many misleading opinions in this blog! For starters the different aluminum adjuvants in vaccines is NOT comparable to the aluminum in breast milk. That is like comparing apple to oranges.
more like comparing crack to fruity pebbles lol
A few parting thoughts before I unsubscribe from this thread, which has become rather ridiculous. Full disclosure:
I do not consider myself pro-vax or anti-vax.
I vaccinate my child, but we use an alternative schedule. I read a lot. I ask a lot of questions. I consider a lot of input from our medical community. And then I make the best decision I can for my family. This goes for ANY medical decision.
I know more than one vaccine injured child. Children with permanent damage.
I know and associate with people who have chosen not to vaccinate their child, or are unable due to a range of allergies or other conditions. And I do not condemn them for it.
I have friends with children who are immunocompromised and worry everyday about the safety of their child at school, on the playground, at amusement parks, etc.
1) Remember this “article” is a blog post. Graff is a scientist. She is a Research Fellow in Anthropological Genetics. She is not an expert in the science of immunology nor has she worked inside big pharma.
2) Regardless of your opinions, beliefs, education, or lack thereof, it is neither productive or appropriate to spew cruelty to ANYONE. Profanity and hateful remarks have no place here or in any conversation, really.
3) Rarely, is ANYTHING, even science, completely black and white.
4) For those of you terrified your vaccinated kids may pick something up at school from the unvaccinated kids, remember, our vaccinated children shed many of the viruses they are vaccinated against for weeks after they get the shot. So ANYONE around them, kids, adults, seniors, vaccinated or not, are at risk. Including you and your other children.
As some of you have mentioned, many adults, parents, caregivers are outdated on their boosters. Many of us, never even make time for regular check ups and teeth cleanings–let’s face it, there aren’t enough hours in the day. But if you’re truly concerned and pro-vax, get yourself in for a thorough check up and consider bringing your own vaccinations current. Then you don’t have to worry and you don’t have to sling anymore condescending remarks to those who can’t or choose not to vaccinate their children.
Brava! Thank you for taking the time to comment.
Best response Amy! Very well said!
Re: 4 – only live virus vaccinations shed. It is pretty easy to find out if a particular vaccine is live virus or not, too.
And the problem with just saying “if you are pro-vax be up to date and stop worrying” is that there are people who cannot get up to date due to allergies or illness. My mom has a form of bone marrow cancer. She is up to date but her immune system doesn’t work properly due to the cancer, so she is dependent on other people also being vaccinated to reduce the chances she will be exposed to anything she may have no or only partial immunity to.
Beautiful reply. This is what it’s all about. Pro-choice.
Unless your choice negatively affects others. I’m going to ‘pro-choice’ to drive my car on the pavement now, because I’ve done my research, and it’s the safest way to protect my kids from road-related deaths.
Where were you and everyone else when I was vaccine injured immediately after a required set of boosters? Hospital mandated I get a series of shots while working in emergency medicine. Your statement is absurd. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a hoax. Nobody’s choice negatively affects you or anyone else. Take full responsibility for your health. Worry about yourself. Health does not come through a needle.
Ok but drive slow and use your horn
Excellent article, and very well written. Thank you for sharing this.
I wholeheartedly agree, and Google U did not help me in any way to perform my benchtop undergraduate virology research, receive my bachelors degree in microbiology, my medical doctorate, nor my board certification in pediatrics. 🙂
Parents can get reliable info from
CDC.gov/nip
Healthychildren.org
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/immunology
https://www.khanacademy.org/search?page_search_query=Vaccine
Yes, of course, your government will tell you the truth. I mean, they’ve always been perfectly honest with you in the past, right? Right???
But why in the world would 99% of physicians worldwide participate in a “government” conspiracy? Its not just physicians in the US who are pro-vaccine.
who wrote that absolutely laughable letter of “truth”?
I remember lining up at the Western Savings and Loan in Gardena, CA to get my sugar cube polio vaccine! I had a Girl Scout leader who was in a wheelchair because of polio. I had a boss whose legs were shriveled because of polio. These “celebrities” who are anti-vaccine don’t remember the terror kids and parents felt when an epidemic broke out! One of my own children got chicken pox before the vaccine was approved here in the U. S. He was too young to develop full immunity from the disease and so got shingles when he was in first grade. The inflamed nerve ran all the way down to the side of his left pinky (he’s a lefty) and made writing an agony for him. My daughter managed to get the vaccine and has never suffered the effects of chicken pox. From this post, you can guess what side I’m on. Oh, by the way, I hold a BS in Microbiology and an MS in Biology and worked as a Biology teacher before retiring. Have NEVER worked for a pharmaceutical company!
You people with your, “my degree this and my degree that” make me sick. If you truly believe that you need a degree to have knowledge of a subject, you’re a moron.
I could be wrong, but I think Jo’s reference to her academic pedigree was intended as a pre-rebutal to the “but you’re not any more of an expert than I am” argument, which is likely why she also notes that she has never worked for a pharma group.
all I have to say is, do your own research whether you’re anti-vaccine or not. And by do your own research, I don’t mean “this is what my doctor said!”. Then decided whether you want to vaccinate your kids or not.
Stop attacking other people because they disagree with you. Believe it or not, you can learn a lot from the internet even though it is definitely not the equivalent of a scientific degree, you just have to understand which is false info and which is not.
basically my point is, calling people disgusting human beings, uneducated, or terrible parents does NOT get people on your side. jeepers.
I didn’t even read this whole post but the one thing that stuck out to me was where whoever wrote it said “not only are parents who don’t vaccinate putting their own children at risk, but also many others.” If said vaccines work as well as you’re saying, and the Dr’s tell us, then how would it be putting vaccinated children at risk?? They either work or they don’t. And if they do, then go ahead and vaccinate. But leave the parents alone that choose not to. That being said, my children are vaccinated on a milder schedule than proposed by studies. I’m not anti-vaccine, but I do believe the parents that choose not to have that right and they deserve to be left alone!!
I would agree, if not for the considerable increase in risk infection that comes from those children who are not vaccinated. Also, it is important to remember that vaccines are not a guarantee that a person will never be infected, but that infection is less likely (and of course, highly likely for those who cannot take the vaccines). For example, the recent stats out of Orange County, CA, on recent outbreaks of measles indicate that people who have been vaccinated are still contacting the disease.
A Stanford trained immunologist speaking on herd immunity: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dts3ebwWlo
Here is some context on Dr. Obukhanych: http://biologyfiles.fieldofscience.com/2012/01/what-makes-expert-dangerous.html
Her critical thinking seems a bit askew, if she’s recommending books on homeopathy–I know that they don’t teach that at Stanford.
WHY can none of these anti-vaccine people spell? CITE. Not site.
If you get that wrong, your argument is f*****g invalid.
I’m tempted to say that (barring people who brag about their education and try to make an argument from authority) it’s self-defeating to complain about someone’s grammar or spelling; sooner or later we’re all going to make an embarasing mitsake.
But you pointed to a particular error that’s pretty telling. I think the problem is not so much a spelling error as a failure to understand what a citation really means–not “here’s someone who agrees with me,” but “here is the factual basis for my claim.” I suspect a lot of people who have bought into pseudoscience don’t read or write much cited material.
When you resort to using profanity to get your point across, your argument is invalid.
It won’t let me post my long comment so I’m testing to see if it’s the length.
I wanted to leave a few comments, after reading your article and all of the links. We are on the fence about vaccines. Some we know we don’t want for ethical/religious reasons (MMR and Varicella because of the fetal tissue used in making it), some we find pointless for us who are monogamous and will be homeschooling our children (HepA, HepB, rotavirus), but that we would consider if moving to a foreign country where they would be more at risk. We are seriously considering DTaP for the sake of pertussis (but wouldn’t hesitate for a Pertussis alone shot, not because we find pertussis especially dangerous but because it requires so much antibiotic use and we are concerned about antibiotic resistance), HIB, and Pc, and somewhat considering Polio, and Meningococcal if we have children going to college. The flu shot is something my family never got, with the exception of my mother who had a lung condition which is now healed and she doesn’t get the shot any more, though we are open to flu shots when more at risk, ie, over 65 which is when 90% of the deaths occur.
We would also be open to a single measles vaccine. In fact, I wish they DID make it, after reading your article, but we feel so strongly against the use of fetal tissue for ethical reasons. We also don’t believe everyone should be unvaccinated, not because we want to hide in herd immunity, but because we do believe walking around unvaccinated is dangerous if you’re not living a healthy lifestyle. All that said, there were a few other things I wanted to add specifically regarding your article.
1. The numbers for measles are for the whole world, including the 1/1,000 cases of encephalitis, while in the US it’s 1/10,000, and the deaths are also not in the US – meaning while sanitation may not cause less instance of the disease, that and access to good health care may play a large role in the danger of the disease.
2. I got especially curious about eradication and smallpox, but couldn’t find much. My question was: what percentage of people were vaccinated? I couldn’t find answers either way, but I did find a PBS article suggesting that not everyone had to be vaccinated to eradicate the disease. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dm79sp.html (again, that leans toward herd immunity which I do find a selfish reason not to vaccinate and doesn’t guide my reasons).
3. The instance of both disease and reactions to vaccines (I don’t believe autism is caused by vaccines, though I don’t rule it out as a possible trigger from the research I’ve done, but there are many, many possible triggers) – have many factors to them, which is why while I trust many of the studies, I think that there’s far more involved than most health studies account for.
4. The article you linked to about “natural infection” being better than vaccination said nothing about natural infection, only that measles was dangerous, which you already established.
5. Strong reactions are very rare, yes, but half of my family had reactions to different vaccines (I turned blue, my sister cried all night long), which makes me extra cautious. We also have an enzyme deficiency which makes us possibly allergic to ingredients in MMR, Hep A, and a number of the flu shots, which also leads me to be wary of them for us, and also reiterates my belief that while vaccines have done good and still can be good, it’s not a black and white issue for everyone.
6. Last comment, about aluminum in breast milk. According to this article: http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf – only 1% of the aluminum we receive from food enters the bloodstream, while 100% of aluminum from vaccines enters the bloodstream, which is why I AM concerned about aluminum in vaccines, not so much on the at-the-time safety level but for long-term effects that we just can’t tell about yet, as well as the lack (tell me if I’m wrong, here!) of testing for vaccines as the group they’re given as and not just individually.
I feel I should emphasize that the articles I’ve linked to are the only ones that said anything either way about these topics; I did not pick and choose based on what suited my beliefs.
I did appreciate your article, as someone who is partially decided about vaccines, but like my sister who has decided to forego all vaccines, is always reading and re-considering and open to new data and reassessment of our conclusions, especially when traveling or moving to foreign countries.
I will be back to read any follow-up comments but may or may not have time to reply to them right now, but do know I will have read them.
Reading blogs, even this one, is not research.
I’ll check my spam queue–sometimes things get caught in it if they contain multiple links. Please let me know if you have any more problems posting.
I think it was a problem with my computer – I was able to post but broke it up into chunks and had to post in a new tab.
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreports.html#_ftnref1
I think vaccines are great and SHOULD be used. What I disagree with is the age in which we begin to give some of the vaccines. Little immune systems CANNOT always handle the side affects.
Is that the conclusion of your research, or just an assumption?
I agree Josue. I do believe they give way too many at an early age. And Colin as far as that being research or an assumption it is actual research done in other countries. They do not vaccinate their children as we do. They spread the vaccines out and one country waits until the child is 5 yrs of age before giving certain ones. Just in case you are wondering these countries are not third world. They are right in line with the US.
May we see this “actual research done in other countries”?
I would add to the “educate yourself” to-do list, visit an old cemetery and notice how alarmingly many gravestones you see for little babies and children – 100 years ago so many more children died, and if you go with a scientist frind/professor (as I was fortunate to be able to), see if you can match up the trends of many deaths in a certain year with known disease outbreaks at the time. It’s heartbreaking to see, and makes you not want to take our modern medical advances for granted.
More fear and propaganda.
“Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunizations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available – the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water.” – Andrew Weil, MD
This is a common and misleading myth. It’s trivial to say that a disease was in decline prior to vaccines; all you have to do is pick a time period in which the normal fluctuation of rates is trending downwards. The question is what effect vaccines had. Here is some good information: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vaccines-didnt-save-us-intellectual-dishonesty-at-its-most-naked/
The same chart and some additional information can be found here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#Diseaseshadalready
A useful analogy is to think of stock prices. We can say that Apple’s stock prices have been in decline over the past month for a variety of reasons. If it turned out tomorrow that iPhones cause cancer, their stock price will collapse. The collapse would be due to the bad news, not the current downward trend. Similarly, whether a disease was in decline prior to vaccinations isn’t relevant to the powerful impact of immunization on controlling disease.
And of course for all those who break a sweat worrying about the corruptive influence of Big Pharma’s money funding studies, it’s worth pointing that Dr. Weil has profited tremendously from the same fear, uncertainty and doubt about science-based medicine that he spreads.
What I never understood is that those who feel pro-vax will often say “correlation does not equal causation” ..yet the same is true between correlation of vaccines introduced at a time when infectious diseases where largely eradicated. Case in point..the disappearance of such infections like Scarlet and Typhoid Fever are two cases where there were no widespread vaccines.
http://www.amazon.com/Dissolving-Illusions-Disease-Vaccines-Forgotten/dp/1480216895
http://vaxtruth.org/2011/09/proof-that-vaccines-did-not-save-us/
I had no idea that pasting a link to amazon would do this. Sorry!
Correlation is not proof of causation, but obviously correlation can correlate with causation. In the case of vaccines, there is an understood pathway for how they prevent disease and a great deal of testing in which they empirically do so. For example, the sharp decline is something seen in vaccine-preventable diseases when the vaccines are introduced, Diseases for which there is no vaccine don’t see that kind of decline. And when vaccination rates go down, vaccine-preventable diseases see a resurgence.
It’s the difference between “X happened then Y, so X must have caused Y” and “there is no biologically plausible cause for Y other than X; Y arises only when X has happened; and when X is removed Y stops; therefore we have good reason to believe that X causes Y.”
Yeah, and those children died before antibiotics, anti virals and fever reducers. I challenge you to visit several group homes and educate yourself. I know, I have two adult sons with vaccine induced brain injuries( autism). 30 yo and younger filled with “autistic” adults, while the older ones almost none except for CP,MR and the other old scourges. Medical advances are great but they also can be harmful, unintentionally and with criminal intent. Do I need to remind you of the Tuskegee experiment, the “ringworm children” , and our eugenics programs of the early 19th and 20th centuries?
And the one Hillary just had to apologize for : http://www.news-medical.net/news/20110831/Guatemalan-Syphilis-study-in-1940e28099s-violated-ethical-standards-US-presidential-commission-report.aspx
Do you need more proof NOT to give blind trust scientists and government?
Reblogged this on Trans/plant/portation and commented:
Word. As someone who was quarantined along with my family for whooping cough even though we’d all been vaccinated (resulting in a more mild illness for us), I can say that anti-vaccination stances are all based on misinformation and fear. Vaccinate your kids. You may be saving a life.
as a Ph.D. in Microbiology & Immunology I find this article a serious waste of time, you claim to be educated and to be a scientist? I’m guessing your science background is in something completely unrelated? botany maybe? You, like many other argumentative people provide no facts or findings to definitively support or prove your statements but somehow expect everyone to trust that your opinion is the correct one. You wax intellectual on subjects you clearly don’t understand. its no shock that pharm companies only care about the all mighty dollar and not your well being and there is countless research to suggest that vaccines are not effective and can cause illness.
Knowing what I know I opt not to receive vaccinations for my self or my family, thats my choice as it is yours to get them.
I’m sure Anonymous University has a great Microbiology & Immunology program. But all that’s on display here is your comment, which in terms of content and grammar is . . . not so great. Like a lot of anti-vaxers, for example, you seem to have not realized that all the blue, underlined words are hyperlinks.
If you have a Ph.D. in Micro and Immunology from a reputable institution, why are you posting anonymously? What are your sources? What pearls of wisdom do you offer from on high? I’m a biologist with a very strong background in immunology and microbiology, but… of course, I defer to your obvious expertise. Please, grace us with your wisdom. Explain to me, as if I might know a thing or two about basic biosciences, why vaccines are inherently harmful and why they don’t work.Cite your sources for the “countless research to suggest that vaccines are not effective and can cause illness.” And then, pray tell, teach us the right way to protect ourselves from dangerous viruses, oh wise one.
I await your words of wisdom.
I sincerely DOUBT you have those credentials given your grammatical errors and piss poor judgment. While there MAY be a lot of research to suggest that vaccines are not as effective as suspected the research on the other side is 100 fold. Fighting a losing battle, my friend.
I have read these remarks and the hate that some of you put in your remarks is sad. Those vaccinating have said you did your research. Those against vaccinating said you did your research. See where I am going. There are 2 sides to every coin. I personally would only believe third party research facilities to get my information from. Third party facilities with no connection what so ever with pharmaceutical companies. There are so many things wrong with this. First, “herd immunity” is what the CDC calls it. I understand what this is. CDC says that “herd immunity” is at an all time high. We can protect each other by everyone getting the vaccine is the pro vaccine belief. Now the other side. People who do not vaccinate. Some choose not too for various reasons. Religious reason (real religious reasons), fear of side-effects, people who have a medical condition that does not allow for vaccinations, those who truly believe that vaccines are bad (and it isn’t because they drink the kool-aid), and then those who choose an alternate vaccine schedule. So they are automatically wrong for thinking as such. Those who vaccinate cannot understand why those who do not vaccinate would put their children, and others, at risk. Those who do not vaccinate believe vaccines can be dangerous and do not understand how others can blindly follow and give their children vaccines b/c CDC says so and has research to back it up. Why is the CDC research better than the other party’s research that is against vaccines and have shown issues that happen due to vaccines. You say that there is more research backing the notion that vaccines do not cause problems? Have you looked into the costs it takes to execute this kind of research? Those that are trying to make people aware of harmful effects of vaccines do not have this kind of money to do the research. That is one reason you don’t find a lot of information. There is research done in other countries on certain vaccines. I would suggest looking there. Both sides to look into research done overseas. They are usually non-partial. Those who vaccinate did you know that there are thoughts (and even research/documented cases) where there has been vaccine “shedding”. Some vaccines are a live virus and just like any virus it can spread through spit (coughing/sneezing), sharing food/drinks, breast milk, feces, etc. So on one side those that vaccinate blame people getting sick on those that are not vaccinated. They are the only ones that can spread the disease, right? Those that believe in vaccine “shedding” say it is those that are getting the vaccine that are spreading it to the vaccinated. I am talking about certain vaccines that shed, those who believe in shedding know that no all vaccines shed. Just the vaccines that contain live viruses. There are always 2 sides and honestly, we do not know which side is completely right. Have you ever considered that both sides can be right and wrong at the same time? It is not an all or nothing approach here. So before either side starts throwing punches stop and put yourself in each other’s shoes. Debate, but do so calmly. Share each other’s point of views and why you think this way. Share research (and not from blogs and articles, but from actual research). Telling the other person they are wrong and they are killing their child or someone else by vaccinating or not vaccinating is not going to educate anyone.
Here’s a list of some of the preservatives / ingredients in vaccines, provided to me by my children’s Pediatrician : one child is vaccinated & the other a newborn
Aluminum hydroxide * aluminum phosphate * ammonium sulfate * amophotericin B * animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain * dog kidney, monkey kidney * chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg * calf (bovine) serum * betapropiolactone * fetal bovine serum * formaldehyde * formalin * gelatin * glycerol * human diploid cells ( originating from human aborted fetal tissue ) * hydrolized gelatin * mercury thimerosal ( thimerosal , Merthiolate(r)) * monosodium glutamate ( MSG ) * neomycin * neomycin sulfate * phenol red indicator * phenoxyethanol ( antifreeze ) * potassium diphosphate * potassium monophosphate * polymyxin B * polysorbate 20 * polysorbate 80 * porcine ( pig ) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein * residual MRC5 proteins * sorbitol * tri (n) butylphosphate * VERO CELLS, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells * washed sheep red blood
Yes, that is a list. It has many words on it.
Yes Colin, that is a list with many words. But did you actually read those words? I am allergic to MSG. I could not take a vaccine that contains it. Words ARE important. There are many other ingredients i there that have been taken out of food due to health risks/issues, yet they remain in vaccines. A double standard?
A list of ingredients is not an argument; “there are many ingredients that have been taken out of foods” is barely an argument. No, it’s not a double standard. Every chemical–which is essentially everything you can eat or drink–can be toxic depending on the dosage. Are the scary ingredients like MSG present in vaccines in anything like the dosages that would be present in foods? Are they injected intravenously, or intramuscularly? There’s a lot of data that needs to be filled in to determine whether an ingredient is actually problematic; throwing a list up of long and/or scary-sounding names without any such data is a particularly odious anti-vax topic.
You’re allergic to MSG? Really? I am curious… what sort of reaction do you have? If you tell me that it gives you a headache, I’ll accurately inform you that it’s not an allergy. If you tell me that you break out in hives and/or experience difficulty breathing, then I’ll concede that it’s an allergy.
Did you know that monosodium glutamate is simply the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most abundant naturally occurring non-essential amino acids. Did you know that you can find it abundantly in tons of all natural foods? Do you like Parmesan cheese? Did you know that Parmesan cheese has one of the highest concentrations of natural MSG known to human cuisine? So… if you’re truly allergic to MSG, then you must have a horrifically limited (and bland) diet, and I feel very bad for your plight.
As for taking things out of food but keeping them in vaccines… did you know that dosage matters? A one-time dose of something that will help protect a person from life-threatening diseases, in exchange for an incredibly tiny risk of reaction to one of the ingredients is, from a medical, scientific, logical, rational standpoint… a very, VERY good trade.
If I knew that the polio vaccine contained an ingredient that would give me a migraine headache for a day, while preventing me from getting a disease that could leave me paralyzed or dead, I’d take the migraine every time.
Yes Leo, my food is pretty bland and boring. I get tired of eating it and when I go against reason and try to eat something containing MSG my chest tightens. I have not gotten hives though. I think I would rather have the hives over my chest feeling like it does.
Oh and migraines. Can’t forget the severe migraines I get. Still, rather have the hives.
Honestly, I’m happy we have anti-vaccers. The world is overpopulated and corrupted by the virus that is “man”. So let people stop vaccinating so we can kill off several billion and not have as much competition for resources and return mother earth to nature.
This is quite true! Perhaps it is evolution’s way of balancing. Good point…
I am not against vaccines. They do hello in most cases. My body however reacts odd to some. The flu vaccine makes me so sick I was once hospitalized. I don’t get the flu vaccine anymore. The chickenpox shot caused shingles. I have not gotten the second chicken pox shot, nor will I. If I have children, they will get vaccinated.
We use an alternative schedule as well. We even got Hep A before it was required.
Our doctor strongly believes that an alternative schedule is best for many children.
When my 15 year old got her chicken pox at age 3, she gave her uncle (a cancer patient) shingles. 6 years ago when our youngest child got her c’pox shot, I got shingles. Then every time I was around a child who’d recently had that shot, the shingles reactivated.
I asked my doc about the shingles vaccine and she said, “Absolutely not! You get shingles when others get shots. What do you think will happen if you get one yourself?”
I think it’s irresponsible that children and adults are not quarantined about that shot in order to protect others from being exposed to that “shedding virus.” This seems to be a fairly common side effect. In the process of protecting kids from chicken pox, we are causing others to get shingles!!
i’m not anti-vax, but I believe there are more responsible ways to handle the issue.
The problem JE is that people do not believe in vaccine “shedding”. Pharmaceutical companies say it doesn’t happen. I believe some of these outbreaks we have here and there can be linked partly to vaccine shedding. Not all, but I bet there are some.
My doctor believes so strongly in vaccine shedding, that she will not allow patients inside her clinic who have recently received certain forms of the flu vaccine (like the nasal spray.)
Your doctor is wrong. Shingles is simply reactivation of the Varicella Zoster Virus in a single dermatome. The only way a person can get shingles is if they have previously had chicken pox. Your uncle’s immune system, which had previously kept the VZV dormant, was impaired by the cancer +/- chemotherapy/radiotherapy, and this allowed reactivation of the virus, causing shingles.
There is no plausible, biological reason for you to have reactivation of your shingles caused by other children being vaccinated. But there is also no reason to have a booster vaccine against shingles, as you have already had the disease.
So my doctor as well as my uncle’s medical team who filed an official report of his shingles outbreak being a cause-and-effect from my daughter’s shot were all wrong? I guess if you say so . . . . (read with sarcasm)
Interesting Logan. Are you a doctor? Is your field of study in vaccine research or lab research that deals with vaccines? I do have a colleague that does work in a lab and we have had many discussions. He is not against all vaccines but there are certain ones that he refuses to give his children.
Do Vaccines Cause Autism? This is the independent and real side of the story, that lets you know perfectly who is really and actually being lied to.
Vaccine aluminum adjuvant causation of neuroglial activation and neuroinflammation in the brain of patients with autism. (Numerous independent studies)
http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-aluminum-adjuvant-causation-of-neuroglial-activation-and-neuroinflammation-in-the-brain-of-patients-with-autism.html
Vaccination toxicity: The Zeta phase of MASS and “blood sludging”
http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccination-toxicity-the-zeta-phase-of-mass-and-ldquoblood-sludgingrdquo.html
The Mechanisms of Vaccine Injury and Via Cytokine Storm
http://www.vacfacts.info/the-mechanisms-of-vaccine-injury-and-via-cytokine-storm.html
Vaccine Production With – Human Diploid Cells (aborted fetal cell tissue)
http://www.vacfacts.info/vaccine-production-with—human-diploid-cells-aborted-fetal-cell—tissue.html
Learn what the real, unbiased, and independent science that the CDC ignores and continues to ignore, is showing us. Clearly a situation with potentially more harm than good being done by vaccines.
Callous Disregard Research
http://www.callous-disregard.com/research.htm
Interesting that no one responded to this. Confirmation bias, perhaps?
I have one question only–don’t worry, you don’t have to answer it. Likely because you can’t.
If Vaccines are so safe, why is it we have to sign a waiver from making any claims against the physicians, and the pharmaceutical company that provides the vaccination? Why is it we have to relinquish our rights to hold liable those companies? The physician or clinic?
They can’t truly believe the vaccines 100% safe and effective if such a waiver is necessary.
After all, I don’t have to sign a waiver to take my blood pressure medication, and even THAT has side effects, some of them life threatening.
Just food for thought.
Simple – because people are lawsuit-happy. If a litigious person gets so much as a sniffle or a wart, no matter how UNRELATED it is to the vaccine, within a few weeks of getting a vaccine, they’ll sue just because they can. Doctors can get overrun by frivolous lawsuits over anything and everything, all by people who want to make a quick buck at the doctor’s expense. Without waivers, there would be no medical profession left in the USA because they would have all been sued to bankruptcy… not because the people filing the suits would win, but because they’d be forever stuck in court and paying lawyer’s fees.
No one believes that vaccines are literally 100% safe–nothing is. As has been often observed, even car seats and seatbelts aren’t 100% safe. The question is whether the benefits outweigh the harms, and the research confirms that they do.
Incidentally, liability waivers are a very, very common thing. I probably sign two or three a year, to so things like rent a kayak or a car or, most recently, take a beekeeping class. Bees aren’t 100% safe, people can die from them. But they, like vaccines, are very, very safe overall.
Too simplistic reasoning for the elites. They need to grovel to academia.
I will try my best to answer it (and I’m not trying to be a smart ass…just offering a health care professional’s point of view)…
The reason they make you sign a waiver, is likely because it is almost impossible to be able to tell if someone is going to react to a particular vaccine or medication, or treatment. All humans are different. Every person’s immune system is different, all DNA is different, and everyone reacts differently to vaccines, pills, treatments such as chemo, etc, whether it be an allergic reaction, adverse effect, or throwing off one’s equilibrium. For most allergies, you will not even know you are allergic to something until you are exposed to it. So, short of doing an allergy test for absolutely every chemical and ingredient in the vaccine, prior to receiving it to make sure you ill not react, it is impossible to tell if you will react to it before you are exposed to it. Same with vaccine injury. Physicians have no possible way of being able to tell if the vaccine will impact that person negatively until you are given it. Heck, even when people receive the vaccine, depending on their immune systems, sometimes it doesn’t even give them immunity. No, vaccines are not 100% safe, or effective, however, it is up to the health care professional to point out these risks of adverse effects, and the pros and cons prior to you receiving treatment, and they let you make your decision based on that, and if you agree, they make you sign to waiver, showing you have heard and understand these risks. If you do not understand the risks, do not sign and ask for more information. I’m not saying EVERY health care professional approaches it this way, some fail to bring up the risks associated with it at routine check ups. However, if you take your health into your own hands, and ask the questions, I’m sure they would be more than willing to go over them with you. (mostly..I know all too well how some crotchety physicians can be).
For argument’s sake, let’s say two people have cancer (affecting the same organ, at the same stage, etc, and they have the same oncologist). They both go in and receive the same kind of chemotherapy treatment. One patient, it works. The tumor shrinks, disappears, and the person is in remission. However, the other patient, it does not work, and the cancer progresses, and the patient dies, simply because their body reacted differently to the chemo. Would it be fair for the patient’s family to hold that oncologist accountable because “it worked for the other patient”? They are simply covering their butts, because it is impossible to be able to tell the efficacy of the vaccine, or the reaction to the vaccine in every person, and they do not wish to spend all their time in courts explaining this fact.
I hope this shed a little light from the other side of the table.
Whether or not you believe in vaccines or not it should still be your choice on getting the vaccines. You should not be subject to being forced into getting them just on government (CDC) say so that they believe in them. I know many people who get them and still get sick with the diseases. You have now idea what the government (who I have very little trust in especially lately) has or does with these vaccines. We all have our own believes but should not be forced to get them just to keep a job. We are suppose to be a free country, but as we all know that is not true with all the outrageous laws and taxes which get wasted.
I support vaccines. I’ve been vaccinated, got measles anyway at age 16.
Nothing is perfect. Being vaccinated is less harmful than not.
But here’s the thing. This entire article makes the case for about a dozen claims, and its essentially: “Nuh Uh!” No way Jose’. You’re being lied to.
In a world of complexity this level of dumb does not serve us well.
People have seen lots of research be contradicted years later.
Do you remember when DDT was “perfectly safe to use around children?”
A bad argument in favor of the truth does not advance the cause of the truth.
People want to know if big Pharma has compromised the CDC.
People want a better explanation about the toxic effects of mercury.
People are being told that everything being consumed or drunk, or injected is perfectly safe, and yet autism is rising.
-Someone- is wrong, Saying “Nuh Uh” It’s just not helpful.
People want answers that do more than repeat – “Its perfectly Safe.”
My words exactly Dan. You said this very well. They used to give the live polio vaccine until MANY MANY years later they realized that is was actually doing more harm than good so they switched to a vaccine that does not carry a live virus. They say the MMR is safe, but it has a live virus. Who is to say down the road they are not going to say, “oops”. I do not disagree with the vaccines themselves. I have an issue with some many being given to babies and children. Their bodies are new to this world and we pump them full of not 1, not 2, but sometimes 3 or 4 vaccines at a time. The number of vaccines given to a baby under the age of 1 has more than doubled in the last 35 years.
“I have an issue with some many being given to babies and children. Their bodies are new to this world and we pump them full of not 1, not 2, but sometimes 3 or 4 vaccines at a time.”
This is not an evidence-based argument – you’re implicitly saying that you think your intuition is better than decades of scientific research and medical practice for the purpose of determining how best to protect infants against disease.
I do have an issue, and I did NOT say my intuition is better than decades of research. Show where I said it was better. It was my OPINION. Just like every other person who has commented on this article. They are all OPINIONS. There are other countries though that do not give as many vaccinations to babies under 12 months as the US does. That is a fact.
You have every right to be concerned. I work in a pediatric emergency room. I want answers too. And yes, keep trusting your intuition. I read the journals and there are holes in the science.
Michael..can you please point to a double blind “actual “placebo study (saline control) on the current vaccination schedule and the outcome of multiple vaccinations. Kids receive 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6 and 70 doses of 16 vaccines by age 18. To date, there has not been one single large scale scientific study of the neurological impact and biological impact and the cumulative effects of adjuvants and shot ingredients in children and adolescents.
As a medical profession in the clinical setting, please help me find this science. Thanks.
It would seem that the best strategy is still to follow the evidence-based wisdom of the time, despite the rare cases in which it turns out to be incorrect. You are right to point out that medical evidence is not perfect, but the point remains that any alternatives are far worse.
Also, the article does not say “it’s perfectly safe”. Quoting from the article: “the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.”
Your statement “People are being told that everything being consumed or drunk, or injected is perfectly safe, and yet autism is rising” is concerning to me – are you assuming that autism has to be rising because of something being consumed or injected? There could easily be another cause. This sort of statement is particularly dangerous because, despite having no basis in evidence, it could easily have persuasive power over people who don’t understand the need for evidence.
I think you’re also making the point that there is a lot that ordinary people don’t understand about medicine, and that better efforts could be made to inform them of key issues. I would definitely support this, while also noting that there will always be room for improvement on this front.
An excellent summary. It would be nice to get to the point where society is educated enough that ideas that are contravened by irrefutable evidence cannot survive. At least in developed countries we no longer take accusations of witchcraft seriously.
“They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine” is not true, the H1N1 vaccine was rushed out without much testing, and some people now have problems cause by that vaccine, like instantly falling asleep (passing out) from common acts, like laughter…
Same thing with the Gardasil vaccine. It was fast tracked for approval. I have treated a few of these unfortunate teenagers in the emergency setting following the second or third dose. I am in the trenches. That is my science.
So sorry. I know that must be tough. 😦
It was really announced insinuating stream media that the pertussis vaccine can actually spread pertussis for up to 3-6 weeks post vaccination. So all the mothers and immediate family members who are vaccinating them selves with the whooping cough vaccine to protect their baby for the two month period leading up to when their baby can have their first DTaP shot, could actually spread the disease to their newborn. Not everything is black and white. I am pro choice. Whether you want to risk your child getting a “vaccine preventable disease” or risk your child having an adverse reaction to their vaccinations, should be up to the parents.
. . . In scrolling through recent posts to this site, this reader-by-chance-visit has his own 2-¢-worth comment about an issue not seen here among the others’ posts: one problem nowadays is vaccinations are often “bundled” with several unrelated vaccines being injected simultaneously. This cost- and time-saving approach may have negative synergistic effects, especially to a marginal immune system. Personally, I keep up with as much verifiable nutritional news as possible, learning what vitamins, minerals, hormones, enzymes, etc. work with each other or should be ingested apart, and I get several hours’ aerobic exercise bicycling and occasionally running to destinations across the city (Houston). I have not had any flu shots, nor other vaccines in years, though i’m not opposed to them and got many commonly available in the 1950s and ’60s. At age 67, I believe the artificial fever of elevated blood temperatures following exercise is of benefit in suppressing pathogens. I’m not a doctor, and I’m cautious whenever encountering “professionals” who may have ulterior motives from bribery by pharmaceutical companies. Weighing research and facts, I make informed choices as best I can, taking vaccines only if I feel they are appropriate in my environment and circumstance. Living alone, on $740/mo. S.S.I., I am working politically with http://HCFAT.org and http://Healthcare-Now.org to have single-payer healthcare like most industrialized countries.
You have my condolences! I used to live in Houston, the weather and traffic were the worst of any place I’ve ever lived. I do miss the museums, though, that city has surprisingly good public art.
How is it as a biking town? I lived downton, and I can see riding a bike there, but it would be an intimidating city to get around that way outside of that small area.
What is so great about this article? Anyone who is researching this issue has seen these ‘links’ and much more.
Curious – is the death of a child caused by vaccine more acceptable than the death of a child caused by disease? If the chance of a severe reaction is 1 in a million – how do I know where my child stands in that pool? Isn’t it 100% if my child is THE ‘one’?
If individualized/personalized immunization/vaccinations can not be a part of this process than this issue is not going to be solved. And no, it’s not the same as getting in a car even though the chances of dying in a car crash are greater (the same can be said in reverse- the chances of dying of childhood disease is less than chance of dying in a car accident). Please don’t simplify the issue. It’s more complex than comparing car to vaccine.
Very good point.
I don’t think your math checks out. The probability of anything that has actually happened is, retrospectively, 100%. For example, we can just replace the subjects in your comment:
“If the chance of a [winning lottery ticket] is 1 in a million – how do I know where my [ticket] stands in that pool? Isn’t it 100% if my [ticket] is THE ‘one’?”
If that logic doesn’t persuade you to go out and spend all your money on lottery tickets, then it also shouldn’t persuade you to forego vaccines.
I am old enough to have suffered from the Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox as a child, my mother had Polio. When the Polio vaccine was made available, we were 1st in line!! We are now several generations away from those who have had these childhood diseases which you are now debating about the effectiveness of – GET YOU CHILDEN VACCINATED!!!! Stop this foolishness!
Here is a very good article. Both sides of the coin people.
http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/newsletter/autismandvaccines.aspx
As I’ve said before, anti-vax rhetoric closely mirrors creationist rhetoric. It seems that groups with an ideology that isn’t supported by empirical science have a few productive ways that they can try to drum up the appearance of legitimacy.
This comment is essentially the “teach the controversy” tactic. Just announce, over and over and over again, that there are “two sides to the coin!” or “two sides to every story!” or “lots of facts on both sides of the issue!” If you say it loudly and often enough, some people will believe it.
But if you dig deeper, what you find is what you should probably expect: the science is done, and the experts are lining up solidly on the side of vaccinations. The anti-vax movement is firing back with rhetoric and scare tactics.
The NVIC will pound the autism drum until hell freezes over, without regard for facts or data. The link you posted even cites Wakefield’s fraudulent paper as if it hadn’t been discredited and retracted; the NVIC has its ideological position and makes no concession whatsover to the overwhelming amount of data contrary to that ideology.
In other words, there may be two sides to the coin. But they aren’t equal. Heads, data and scientific consensus. Tails, ideology and rhetoric. Only one side wiped out the iron lung.
I can say the same about the vaccine movement. Rhetoric and scare tactics, In fact as you read this you are probably are thinking I am an anti-vax nut. Truth be told, I do vaccinate. I also read research so that I know the risks. And I read both sides of the argument.
Sure, you can say it. And you will, just as anti-vaxers and creationists always do: since the science is one-sided, they can’t produce actual data that refutes the scientific consensus. They resort instead to rhetorical arguments intended to create the perception of an actual scientific controversy, such as saying, “I can say the same thing about the vaccine movement, rhetoric and scare tactics, etc.”
I don’t think you’re a nut. I think you have been subjected to a very active and high-volume rhetorical campaign and have internalized its messages.
I’m a pro-vaccinne creationist…… does that mean I am a oxymoron? ha 🙂
Canadian woman with 2.5 yr old. Is this a joke? It is more than advocated to the point I ponder the risks or side effects or even necessity. This whole read is opposite my real life experiences by me, not a panel of peeps pretending they relate. Thumbs down.
Unfortunately, there are experts (including doctors) who will vouch for both sides of this story, so it is very difficult to get a definite answer.
One of the things I vehemently object to when it comes to vaccinations is the alacrity with which they shoot little infant bodies with all sorts of toxins. They begin very, very young, and they give them multiple shots at the same time, with no knowledge of the synergistic effect.
Consider this: When the time comes to start babies on solid foods, the doctors are all in agreement that foods should be introduced *ONE AT A TIME* over a period of time, so that if allergies or other reactions occur, it will be possible to know which food caused it. And yet….when it comes to vaccinations, they give them multiple shots all at once. Shouldn’t the same logic they use when it comes to foods be applied toward vaccinations? Sometimes, reactions to vaccinations do occur, and they can be quite severe. But when your baby has just had five shots and he has a reaction….which shot was to blame?
I agree marytoo. As to your comment as to when a baby has five shots and has a reaction which shot is to blame… the answer is easy. The shots aren’t to blame. They tend to blame it on anything other than the shots. This is not an opinion. I have several friends who have had this said to them, “Oh, it wasn’t the shot. It was just a coincidence.” Well, how many coincidences do they need? Another problem is b/c it is considered a “coincidence” it is not reported to the CDC or company that makes the vaccine so a record of these “coincidences” is not kept.
I agree 100%. We need to study the synergistic toxicity of 1+1+10 from all vaccine ingredients based on today’s schedule.
There are experts, including PhDs, who will vouch for just about anything. It’s a consequence of the fact that there are many thousands of experts, and being human beings you can always find someone who believes anything. The vast majority of experts, though, are comfortable with vaccination in terms of safety and efficacy. If you find the small number of experts opposing vaccinations credible, why don’t you find the much larger number of experts supporting vaccinations more credible?
You say you’re concerned about the pace of vaccination. It’s a reasonable thing to have questions about, certainly. But are you aware that those questions have been extensively studied? The Institute of Medicine, an elite non-profit and a chartered branch of the National Academy of Sciences, released a report on the childhood immunization schedule: “This report is the most comprehensive examination of the immunization schedule to date. The IOM committee uncovered no evidence of major safety concerns associated with adherence to the childhood immunization schedule.”
If these studies don’t allay your fears, what would? And if nothing would, are your fears really rational?
The sky is falling! Help, is there a scientist who’s not a big pharma or academic sycophant in the house? I left the big city and now I’m surrounded by Amish and statist sheep. The scared vaccinated sheep are always sick, while the Amish kids are the healthiest around, they don’t get autism and they don’t vaccinate. 2+2=4
Thank you for commenting and reminding us that anecdotes are not data. Your claim that Amish “don’t vaccinate” is a canard, often repeated by anti-vaxers for ideological reasons but not grounded in fact.
When someone actually examined the data, they found a vaccination rate of around eighty-five percent: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/128/1/79
DERP!
Only 359 respondents in this study. 68% stated that all of their children had received at least 1 immunization, and 17% reported that some of their children had received at least 1 immunization. Many parents indicated that they allow their children to receive only some vaccines because of concern about the way certain vaccines are produced.
CONCLUSIONS: The reasons that Amish parents resist immunizations mirror reasons that non-Amish parents resist immunizations. Even in America’s closed religious communities, the major barrier to vaccination is concern over adverse effects of vaccinations. If 85% of Amish parents surveyed accept **some** immunizations, they are a dynamic group that may be influenced to accept preventative care. Underimmunization in the Amish population must be approached with emphasis on changing parental perceptions of vaccines in addition to ensuring access to vaccines.
Nowhere does this study suggest that the Amish are following Today’s heavy vaccine schedule. “Had at least 1 vaccine” means just that.
Yes, 85% of families gave their kids at least one vaccine, possibly more but no less. You have accurately read that paragraph. The rate of vaccination generally among Amish is reported to be only marginally lower than among the general population, and it is inaccurate to say (as anti-vaxers often do) that they “don’t vaccinate.” Nor is it true that Amish kids don’t get sick or don’t get autism.
http://combatingautismfromwithin.blogspot.com/2008/01/guess-what-amish-vaccinate.html
Has anyone done a study to see if food preservatives and artificial additives can be a factor in autism? We ingest so much chemicals anymore in our food and our water, it has to leave some kind of problems behind. I believe in vaccines. Anyone who doesn’t should just go out and shoot their child.Because you are doing just as much damage to them as you think a vaccine would.
You statist pro-vacers are pushing this issue to where you’ll start a civil war. Too many parents are looking around at their friends and family with a child who suffered from a vaccine induced brain injury, they’ve researched and will wait to vac, or choose not to. You eugenic control freaks who have no children will pay for lobbying government to forcibly lobotomizing the children. That will give rise to another Pol-pot and no one will shed a tear for you.
I think so much time has passed since the polio outbreaks, people have forgotten about the thousands of children paralyzed because of this terrible disease. Very few people alive now remember pre-vaccine days and don’t seem to know how many deaths occured because of the dieases we are now protected from
Polio never disappeared. It was renamed in 1955 and now hides behind these names: acute flaccid paralysis (AFP), Transverse Myelitis, Viral or aseptic meningitis, Guillaine Barre Syndrome (GBS), Chinese Paralytic syndrome, CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME, epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, ME, post-polio syndrome.http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e2398/rr/578260
So that curious onlookers don’t get the impression that you’ve linked to research supporting your odd claim, let me point out that the link goes to a “rapid response” (it looks a lot like a letter to the editor to me) by Dr. Vera Scheibner, apparently a professor of geology who retired in 1987. Dr. Scheibner believes that vaccines cause shaken-baby syndrome and that there is no significant harm posed by measles, polio, whooping cough or rubella. I think her beliefs are on the far, far, far, far, far fringe of medical science; she would be an outlier in 1887, much less 1987 or 2007 or 2014.
I don’t know anything about Dr. Scheibner, but she seems like a woman with a conscience. BMJ is a credible source and am surprised that anyone on the far fringe of medical science would be allowed on the pages with BMJ. Here is another source. Sometime you have to look at international journals to escape conflicts of interest.
http://www.neurologyindia.com/article.asp?issn=0028-3886;year=2003;volume=51;issue=4;spage=544;epage=545;aulast=Anlar
BMJ may be a credible journal, but BMJ isn’t the source. Dr. Sheibner, a paleontologist with no discernable expertise in vaccines or medical issues and some completely outlandish, unsupported beliefs that call her objectivity into serious question, is the source. Even if you agree with her bizarre positions, it seems like a frank and objective fact that she’s on the far fringes of medical science–I’m not aware of any serious source that would agree that there’s no harm to polio, measles, whooping cough, or rubella, or that vaccines cause shaken-baby deaths. The journal opened space up for her to comment, which seems like a common enough thing to do–it exists to host a variety of opinions. It is not an endorsement of her radical and unsupported beliefs.
The article you link to here states that five children presented with GBS after an anti-polio vaccination campaign. It does not support your claim that polio was just hidden by renaming it.