Dear parents, you are being lied to.

Standard of care.

In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.

Dear parents,

You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.

They say that measles isn’t a deadly disease.
But it is.

They say that chickenpox isn’t that big of a deal.
But it can be.

They say that the flu isn’t dangerous.
But it is.

They say that whooping cough isn’t so bad for kids to get.
But it is.

They say that vaccines aren’t that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children’s lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.

They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.

They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine. For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.

They will say that doctors won’t admit there are any side effects to vaccines.
But the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.

They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
It doesn’t. (The question of whether vaccines cause autism has been investigated in study after study, and they all show overwhelming evidence that they don’t.)

They say that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism.
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t been in most vaccines since 2001 anyway.

They say that the aluminum in vaccines (an adjuvant, or component of the vaccine designed to enhance the body’s immune response) is harmful to children.
But children consume more aluminum in natural breast milk than they do in vaccines, and far higher levels of aluminum are needed to cause harm.

They say that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (and/or the “vaccine court”) proves that vaccines are harmful.
It doesn’t.

They say that the normal vaccine schedule is too difficult for a child’s immune system to cope with.
It isn’t.

They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.

This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.

They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine.
They aren’t.

The truth is that vaccines are one of our greatest public health achievements, and one of the most important things you can do to protect your child.

I can predict exactly the sort of response I will be getting from the anti-vaccine activists. Because they can’t argue effectively against the overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines, they will say that I work for Big Pharma. (I don’t and never have). They will say that I’m not a scientist (I am), and that I’m an “Agent 666” (I don’t know what that is, but I’m pretty sure that I’m not one).

None of these things are true, but they are the reflexive response by the anti-vaccine activists because they have no facts to back up their position. On some level, deep down, they must understand this, and are afraid of the implications, so they attack the messenger.

Why are they lying to you? Some are doing it for profit, trying to sell their alternative remedies by making you afraid of science-based medicine. I’m sure that many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful. But as a certain astrophysicist recently said “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”. In the case of vaccine truthers, this is not a good thing. Good intentions will not prevent microbes from infecting and harming people, and the message that vaccines are dangerous is having dire consequences. There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.

In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learn what the scientific community says. Learn how the immune system works. Go read about the history of disease before vaccines, and talk to older people who grew up when polio, measles, and other diseases couldn’t be prevented. Go read about how vaccines are developed, and how they work. Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked. Read the numerous, huge studies that have explicitly examined whether autism is caused by the vaccine…and found nothing. (While you’re at it, read about the ongoing research to determine what IS the cause—or causes —of autism, which is not helped by people continuing to insist that vaccines cause it).

That may seem like a lot of work, and scientific papers can seem intimidating to read. But reading scientific articles is a skill that can be mastered. Here’s a great resource for evaluating medical information on the internet, and I wrote a guide for non-scientists on how to read and understand the scientific literature. You owe it to your children, and to yourself, to thoroughly investigate the issue. Don’t rely on what some stranger on the internet says (not even me!). Read the scientific studies that I linked to in this post for yourself, and talk to your pediatricians. Despite what the anti-vaccine community is telling you, you don’t need to be afraid of the vaccines. You should instead be afraid of what happens without them.

 

Edited to add: This video is an outstanding summary of many of these issues. I encourage you to watch it.

“Humans try to make sense of the world by seeing patterns. When they see a disease or condition that tends to appear around the time a child is a year or so old, as autism does, and that is also the age that kids get particular shots, they want to put those things together. Parents watch kids more carefully after they get shots. Sometimes they pick up on symptoms then. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean that one caused the other. This is why we need careful scientific studies.”

Note: For people coming via a direct link, please also feel free to participate in a follow-up discussion
here.

1/13/15: Edited to update broken hyperlinks. If you find any additional broken links, please don’t hesitate to let me know. –JR

4/19/16: Edited again to update more broken hyperlinks. If you find more, keep letting us know and we’ll keep fixing them. –CM

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5,927 thoughts on “Dear parents, you are being lied to.

    • Chris July 3, 2016 / 1:45 pm

      Yes, we know about the The Cutter Incident. I would suggest just reading the book and not that muckraking blog post that then makes the claim that polio was redefined.

      Upon further reading, it would note that Dr. Greenberg did not pontificate past 1960:
      http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/09/anti-vaccine-terminology-defined-the-greenburg-gambit-and-the-natural-decline-gambit.html

      In short, the Cutter Incident actually prompted more regulations to make vaccines safer. And also since the Dr. Greenberg wrote those words in 1962, lots has happened in medicine and DNA analysis. The “polio was redefined” is a pretty silly argument when they have sequenced the genome, and can tell the three serotypes apart.

      I am at the maximum of two links, but I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the blog and podcasts of Prof. Vincent Racaniello. He is a virologist who spent much of his career working with polio, starting doing the long drawn out lab methods to sequence the virus, which is why he as a “Wall of Polio.” There is a great deal of discussion on the types of polio and the preferred methods of eradicating the disease.

      Prof. Racaniello is certainly more informed than someone who cherry picks something written over fifty years ago.

    • Chris July 3, 2016 / 1:55 pm
      • Chris July 3, 2016 / 1:57 pm

        Mucked up the html:

        Why should we care what that blog writes? Apparently it is by someone who does not have a clue as noted here:

        This time it’s someone named Marco Cáceres di Iorio. It’s someone about whom I’ve never heard and whom I’ve never encountered, blogging on both an antivaccine website called The Vaccine Reaction, which is listed as being published by the Orwellian-named National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) and his own personal blog. The NVIC, as you might recall, is one of the oldest existing antivaccine groups and was the sponsor of the recent antivaccine protest at the CDC. The post itself is entitled Internet Trolls Attack Anyone Resisting Vaccine Party Line, but it might as well have been called Connecting the dots very poorly. Apparently di Iorio is very antivaccine.

        Apparently Marco does not limit himself to cherry picking over fifty year old quotes!

        • Melissa April 8, 2017 / 7:46 am

          Lol!

          Author suggests above that the anti-vaccine side can’t present an argument based on fact so they attack the messenger. Provaxxer gets presented with facts, can’t argue and attacks the messenger. There you have it!

          • MaGaO April 8, 2017 / 9:36 am

            Not, the messenger, dear: his methods. If you bothered to understand what is written in the link. Marco doesn’t bother to learn that Orac and Skeptical Raptor are different persons, relies on… incorrect (well, actually false) information
            But, hey, you will believe what you will, reality notwithstanding 😉

          • Chris April 8, 2017 / 12:04 pm

            You have an odd definition of “fact.” Now, if you wish to provide some facts then provide the PubMed indexed studies that the IPV polio vaccine presently used in the United States of American causes more harm than polio. I really mean presently, manufactured under the federal laws that are in effect now, not over fifty years ago.

            Polio s a disease where two of the three strains are no longer in circulation due to vaccines. Information I learned by listening to the “This Week in Virology” run by someone who studied polio for years:
            http://www.virology.ws/about/

            Also, Dr. Paul Offit’s book The Cutter Incident is a very good read. So is Polio: An American Story by David Oshinsky. You should try reading them, but I know you won’t because you have a closed mind and they are both longer than a blog post.

            • Jeanette April 11, 2017 / 2:13 am

              You are not old enough to remember polio outbreaks which left people disabled and some in iron lungs. I do. We had a hospital in our city just for this. my uncle was crippled by polio. if they survived the polio as adults they could get post polio syndrome and die young any way. my kids and grandkids are all vaccinated.

              • Chris April 11, 2017 / 10:17 am

                True. I was born just after the original Salk vaccine was introduced. When I was in my twenties I worked in an office where there were a few who had limps from the experience with polio.

                • Sarah August 3, 2017 / 5:18 pm

                  I have a colleague who was in an iron lung as a baby and now wheelchair bound as an adult. It’s a bit more than a limp you can get if you survive at all

                  • Richard Daggett August 4, 2017 / 6:28 pm

                    I actually contracted polio. I was in an iron lung for almost six months. If a vaccine had been available then (1953) my parents, and every parent I knew would have fought tooth and nail to get it. I can’t understand the ignorance of the vaccine haters. They seem to take pride in their ignorance.

                  • brad August 7, 2017 / 9:40 am

                    You do know that those pictures of all those polio victims in the iron lung ward were victims of the POLIO VACCINE, right? Every one in there. It is possible this also caused your friend’s problems.

                    Most don’t know that the polio rate INCREASED when polio vaccine came out through changes to the definition of polio myelitis – the diagnosis being changed exactly when the vaccine came out…

                    • MaGaO August 7, 2017 / 10:08 am

                      “You do know that those pictures of all those polio victims in the iron lung ward were victims of the POLIO VACCINE, right? Every one in there. It is possible this also caused your friend’s problems.”
                      False, of course. Iron lung ward images belong to early 1950s when Salk’s vaccine hadn’t yet made available nationwide (it was tested in 1952 and became publicly available in 1955). See this polio ward in 1955. http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/nyu-hosts-retrospective-polio-virus-article-1.1985152
                      “Most don’t know that the polio rate INCREASED when polio vaccine came out through changes to the definition of polio myelitis –”
                      False. Also, cum hoc ergo propter hoc. I know you can’t help it but try to avoid fallacies.
                      ” the diagnosis being changed exactly when the vaccine came out…”
                      Again, false. But, hey, that never stopped you before. Also, you cherry-pick USA in order to shore up the idea of vaccination not being related with polio plummeting. The rest of the world, “surprisingly”, saw polio incidence go down when polio vaccines were used widely.

                    • brad August 7, 2017 / 4:11 pm

                      Actually, polio rates had decreased over 50% from ’52 through 55 – before the vaccine. The first polio outbreaks – EVERY ONE OF THEM – started in the late 1800s and EVERY outbreak occurred EXACTLY where and exactly WHEN they sprayed apples with an arsenic/lead pesticide they’d just developed for gypsy moths. Arsenic poisoning symptoms exactly mimic polio…

                      Before the vaccine, the diagnosis for polio was paralysis in 2 or more muscle groups for TWO DAYS. If you took 1,000 people who by this diagnosis HAD POLIO before the vaccine – 999 out of those 1,000 (who by definition were polio victims) LOST THEIR SYMPTOMS WITHIN A COUPLE DAYS TO A COUPLE WEEKS. This means that ONE person out of one thousand polio victims had permanent damage or was killed.

                      When the vaccine came out the diagnosis was immediately changed. Then polio was diagnosed as a person who had paralysis in 2 or more muscle groups FOR TWO MONTHS. By doing this change in definition, they actually reduced the defined polio victims by 99.9%. If you took the same thousand people WITH polio from yesterday – and changed them to the day later – the thousand victims would turn into one, single victim.

                      When the vaccine came out, history shows that deaths and paralysis numbers from polio increased pretty dramatically – but the over all “polio rate” had allegedly “dropped” because of this dishonest reclassification of victims through semantic manipulation.

                    • MaGaO August 7, 2017 / 4:59 pm

                      “Actually, polio rates had decreased over 50% from ’52 through 55 – before the vaccine.”
                      This is false, as shown in the link I provided. Death rates decreased, not infection.
                      ” The first polio outbreaks – EVERY ONE OF THEM – started in the late 1800s and EVERY outbreak occurred EXACTLY where and exactly WHEN they sprayed apples with an arsenic/lead pesticide they’d just developed for gypsy moths. Arsenic poisoning symptoms exactly mimic polio…”
                      This is, again, false. Poliomielitis happens everywhere independent of pesticide use including places where there were no apples. Polio was described centuries before arsenic/lead pesticides existed.
                      “Before the vaccine, the diagnosis for polio was paralysis in 2 or more muscle groups for TWO DAYS. If you took 1,000 people who by this diagnosis HAD POLIO before the vaccine – 999 out of those 1,000 (who by definition were polio victims) LOST THEIR SYMPTOMS WITHIN A COUPLE DAYS TO A COUPLE WEEKS. This means that ONE person out of one thousand polio victims had permanent damage or was killed”
                      One out of a thousand against, what one out of a hundred thousand (actually way less but whatever)? Perhaps division is still tough for you but I would put my bets on the 1/100000 chance of losing EVERY time before betting on the 1/1000 chance.
                      “When the vaccine came out the diagnosis was immediately changed.”
                      You haven’t proved this. With your record, I’m calling bullshit.
                      ” Then polio was diagnosed as a person who had paralysis in 2 or more muscle groups FOR TWO MONTHS. By doing this change in definition, they actually reduced the defined polio victims by 99.9%. If you took the same thousand people WITH polio from yesterday – and changed them to the day later – the thousand victims would turn into one, single victim.”
                      Keep lying.
                      “When the vaccine came out, history shows that deaths and paralysis numbers from polio increased pretty dramatically – but the over all “polio rate” had allegedly “dropped” because of this dishonest reclassification of victims through semantic manipulation.”
                      This is, again, FALSE. Back your words up. Hint: you can’t. because you are lying.

                    • brad August 8, 2017 / 9:09 am

                      i am at a disadvantage here. i used to use a laptop computer which had over 320 articles, medical abstracts, interviews, historical data, etc. along with some permaculture videos, martial arts forms, farming links, songs, etc.
                      My computer died or was hacked, and i still have everything from that hard drive on an external hard drive – except EVERY vaccine link. Those are totally gone, wiped, and missing. Three days ago, the desktop i was using with over 200 replacement links was killed.

                      So my charts etc are gone, but when i see your new stats on old diseases i still feel like you do – there seems to be dishonesty afoot. EVERY disease for which there are vaccines and many diseases which don’t have diseases had decreased about 90% before they ever had a vaccine – proving the vaccines didn’t cause the drops. Projections of the curve for measles show a zero death rate in the USA for measles at the time we actually had hit that.

                      As for polio – Gates’s polio vaccine is far, far worse than the “wild” polio is. He caused destruction in over 47,500 people in just India. In Pakistan he had his distributors shot and killed in the boonies because the villagers knew how damaging his vaccines are – SO much worse than the disease itself. What would YOU do if your MD said “I can cure your headache – here, have cancer.”

                      As for polio taking place all over where pesticides aren’t done – i suggest you think. The hottest polio spots in the world are near Pakistan, India, and some of the former Soviet nations. In those locations you can buy DDT in brown paper bags without instructions on them. The other places that it happens is war torn countries like Syria – where the WHO is pushing polio shots. Not a coincidence.

                      i’d had charts showing where two provinces in Canada had doubled rates of paralysis and death after the vaccine showed up, and in the USA there were states which had NEVER had a case of polio and suddenly had them sprouting up AFTER the vaccine came online.

                      Bottom line – it doesn’t matter. You love vaccines. FINE – you go and take every vaccine that you are moved to get – and you are probably happy that there are over 271 new vaccines in development right now. You can become a pincushion for all i care.

                      But i grew up when virtually every kid got measles and the childhood diseases – i grew up in the late 50s and 60s – and we had NO fear of these diseases unlike todays foolish cowards. Had i the chance to do it over again i would again voluntarily get those diseases and again have PERMANENT IMMUNITY – an impossibility for you and your vaccines. One shot with a bit of discomfort for a couple days and never have to deal with it again. YOU have other worries. Your vaccine WILL lose effectiveness – even with boosters – and people who are fully “immunized” (not immune of course) can and do get those diseases all the time. At their greater ages – YOU are in MUCH greater danger. Chicken Pox in post pubescents is many times more likely to kill you or give you permanent injury. Same with mumps, Same with measles…..

                      By having the disease – AS DESIGNED BY NATURE – THROUGH THE ENTIRE IMMUNE SYSTEM my body has permanent immunity – and i’ve “waded” through outbreaks in various situations with impunity since my youth. You are at risk for those situations.

                      So feel free. Get shot up. Be a Vaxassination hero. i am not and never have stated that you have to do what i choose to do for myself, but the vaxassination religion people DO insist that i have to poison myself for THEIR mistaken benefits. My getting shots won’t decrease your risk of disease and in fact increases your risk of disease.

                      You also never get into my informed consent rights. NOBODY IN THE WORLD has the right to force medical practices upon you. Look up the hierarchy of law and find out that your statutory legislation has no power (legally speaking) to over-rule the constitutional and common law. The Nuremberg Code, the Geneva Convention IV, the UN, the US constitution, and my state constitution all clearly state that i have the right to refuse such vaccination – but the fake governments (they are literally corporations,you know) make money for the rich people who run the chemical and medical industries and pass bills that are invalid, null and void from the moment of signing – like SB277 – and because they have a big stick and own the media – they get their way by tricking we the people. So – go ahead, get your shots. But if you come to my door with a needle to inject my, my right to self defense will allow me to destroy your hands and arms so that you can’t do that. And i will.

                    • brad August 7, 2017 / 2:13 pm

                      You imply dishonesty in our viewpoints – and ignore the fake science inherent in the vaccine program – the very BASIS of the current vaccines.
                      i refer to the so-called “effectiveness” of vaccines as measured by “antigen response”. Antigen response is an antibody production in reaction to things THAT SHOULDN’T BE IN YOUR BODY. whether allergen, cancer, vaccine virus or genetics or poison ingredient.

                      So you pretend that vaccines increase one’s disease protection response – and increase “antigen response” (make more antibodies) with the poisons you shove in there. So let’s look at aluminum. Yes. It makes the body increase antibody production – but this is why this procedure is counterproductive and yes, STUPID. While some protein antibodies can function in removing multiple proteins and thus increase the response to the diseases you stuck in someone’s bodies – but when you put aluminum into a person THOSE ANTIBODIES WILL NOT REMOVE PROTEINS FOR THE DISEASES.

                      This means that you just put a poison in the body, you did make more antigen response, but the increased antibody production DID NOTHING TO REDUCE RESPONSE TO THE DISEASES THAT YOU PRETEND ARE THE FUNCTION OF THE VACCINE since the aluminum antibodies won’t remove the pathogens you claim are the point of the shots.

                      So you’ve increased the toxic load, proven that that person’s immune system worked fine without all the vaccines, and made it more difficult for the person to stay healthy since you not only gave them a disease but also poisoned the crap out of them unnecessarily.

                      If they get an “antigen response” and make antibodies – then their immune system works – and the shot was basically unnecessary almost all the time. If they DON’T make any antibodies – then you loaded their immune system unnecessarily and perhaps dangerously.

                      In the middle of the last century there was found a condition called agammaimmunoglobuminaemia in which some people DON’T MAKE ANTIBODIES. However – they got the childhood diseases AND recovered just like those who did make antibodies. This proves that “effectiveness of vaccines because of antigen response” is at best a grossly inflated measurement of true effectiveness, ignores other aspects of the natural immune system which protected those people without antibodies,

                      Vaccine fail.

                    • MaGaO August 7, 2017 / 3:23 pm

                      “You imply dishonesty in our viewpoints”
                      I don’t. I assert that your statements are false and that your references manipulate data to fit their beliefs.
                      ” – and ignore the fake science inherent in the vaccine program – the very BASIS of the current vaccines.”
                      This will not prove your earlier assertions. You are just diverting as usual.
                      “i refer to the so-called “effectiveness” of vaccines as measured by “antigen response”. Antigen response is an antibody production in reaction to things THAT SHOULDN’T BE IN YOUR BODY. whether allergen, cancer, vaccine virus or genetics or poison ingredient.”
                      Guess what? Infectious patogen shouldn’t be in your body, save a few exceptions.
                      “So you pretend that vaccines increase one’s disease protection response”
                      No pretense about that: there are exceptions but vaccines increase disease protection response against diseases they are designed for.
                      ” – and increase “antigen response” (make more antibodies) with the poisons you shove in there. So let’s look at aluminum. Yes. It makes the body increase antibody production – but this is why this procedure is counterproductive and yes, STUPID.”
                      It does not make the body increase antibody production. It makes the body react more so a smaller dose of antigen is needed.
                      ” While some protein antibodies can function in removing multiple proteins and thus increase the response to the diseases you stuck in someone’s bodies – but when you put aluminum into a person THOSE ANTIBODIES WILL NOT REMOVE PROTEINS FOR THE DISEASES.”
                      This is false, as usual. Once more, you know not what you talk about.
                      “This means that you just put a poison in the body, you did make more antigen response, but the increased antibody production DID NOTHING TO REDUCE RESPONSE TO THE DISEASES THAT YOU PRETEND ARE THE FUNCTION OF THE VACCINE since the aluminum antibodies won’t remove the pathogens you claim are the point of the shots.”
                      But you don’t want to reduce response to the diseases you vaccinate against. You want the body to already be able to respond so THEIR EFFECTS are weaker (or do not happen at all).
                      “So you’ve increased the toxic load, proven that that person’s immune system worked fine without all the vaccines, and made it more difficult for the person to stay healthy since you not only gave them a disease but also poisoned the crap out of them unnecessarily.”
                      You don’t get it as usual. The objective of vaccination is not to “test” immune response but to kickstart it. A non vaccinated person that gets infected takes about a week until their immune system responds to the antigen. Vaccination makes that immune response develop before actual infection so, when the pathogen gets started, the immune system does not need a week to start responding.
                      “If they get an “antigen response” and make antibodies – then their immune system works – and the shot was basically unnecessary almost all the time. If they DON’T make any antibodies – then you loaded their immune system unnecessarily and perhaps dangerously.”
                      Actually, if they don’t develop antibodies you know they need to be extra careful. Chris already explained this.
                      “In the middle of the last century there was found a condition called agammaimmunoglobuminaemia in which some people DON’T MAKE ANTIBODIES. However – they got the childhood diseases AND recovered just like those who did make antibodies.”
                      Because vaccines do not induce an infection.
                      ” This proves that “effectiveness of vaccines because of antigen response” is at best a grossly inflated measurement of true effectiveness, ignores other aspects of the natural immune system which protected those people without antibodies,”
                      No, this proves, once more, that you are talking nonsense. It is KNOWN that human immune system does not rely only on antibodies.
                      “Vaccine fail.”
                      You fail. As usual. Now that you have spouted your nonsense ONCE AGAIN, do you have anything to defend your false statement about iron lung wards being filled with vaccinated people? Do you have anything to defend your false statement about polio incidence decay not being related to vaccination? Or will you run again on another tangent to try and hide the fact that you don’t know what you talk about? Will you again talk about your building anecdotes as a way to make you look like anything but the kook you look like?

                    • brad August 7, 2017 / 4:45 pm

                      You must intentionally be missing the FACT that toxic ingredients are placed into vaccines which do NOT increase antibody response to disease. If you just had the pathogens and such genetics in there – then perhaps they wouldn’t be so bad, but no – aluminum is a horribly neurotoxic ingredient WHICH DOES NOT INCREASE DISEASE RESISTANCE since it’s antibodies do NOTHING to fight disease proteins, but just increase the toxic load the immune system must try to eliminate.
                      Because you inject them into muscles – the aluminum stays in the body and rather slowly is transferred into the brain, through the BBB via the detergents like Polysorbate 80, through fluoridated water and other products, and more. These are related to alzheimers disease and so we are concurrently frightened about the dangers of aluminum and it’s dementia effects, while simultaneously being told it’s a WONDERFUL thing – Offitt even mentions it like it’s an essential ingredient for health…You want it both ways in “standard medicine” – the most toxic, least effective health system in the world, at least the industrialized world.

                      So you have no studies showing that disease occurrence decreases with vaccines – no rationalization as to why most of the outbreaks occur among vaccinated and fully vaccinated people as opposed to unvaccinated people. Hint: vaccinated people have compromised immune systems and might be more susceptible to damages from vaccine ingredients – weakening their response to the wild disease. In fact this is proven by the OAS – Original Antigenic Sin, whereby it is proven that getting a flu shot makes antibodies for those (or some of) pathogens. Then you run into another flu virus via the wild or via another vaccine – and you make more antibodies that you can’t use to fight the new disease. . So now your body fights the last war and spends energy on the OLD viruses when it needs to fight just the current threat. It’s proven to decrease immune response to the flu and new disease outbreaks.

                      So things don’t work the way the storyline goes.

                    • MaGaO August 7, 2017 / 5:12 pm

                      “You must intentionally be missing the FACT that toxic ingredients are placed into vaccines which do NOT increase antibody response to disease. If you just had the pathogens and such genetics in there – then perhaps they wouldn’t be so bad, but no – aluminum is a horribly neurotoxic ingredient WHICH DOES NOT INCREASE DISEASE RESISTANCE since it’s antibodies do NOTHING to fight disease proteins, but just increase the toxic load the immune system must try to eliminate.”
                      You are completely clueless, as usual. A baby will receive more aluminum through breast-feeding than through all vaccines COMBINED. Yet babies have been breastfed for millions of years and they do not develop neuronal issues because of aluminum.
                      “Because you inject them into muscles – the aluminum stays in the body and rather slowly is transferred into the brain,”
                      FALSE: if this happened there would be much larger aluminum deposits due to breastfeeding, eating a random handful of earth…
                      ” through the BBB via the detergents like Polysorbate 80,”
                      FALSE. I know it is feeding pearls to the pigs, but here you have a study that compared the use of polysorbate or not in a vaccine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25126854
                      ” through fluoridated water and other products,”
                      Oh, for $DEITY’s sake. Fluoridated water? REALLY? Will your fountain of nonsense ever stop? ”
                      and more. These are related to alzheimers disease and so we are concurrently frightened about the dangers of aluminum and it’s dementia effects, while simultaneously being told it’s a WONDERFUL thing – Offitt even mentions it like it’s an essential ingredient for health…You want it both ways in “standard medicine” – the most toxic, least effective health system in the world, at least the industrialized world.”
                      No. You just don’t understand the concept of DOSE. A small quantity of something can be harmless (case in point: aluminum hydroxide). Aluminum hydroxide is used in vaccines in small enough quantities.
                      “So you have no studies showing that disease occurrence decreases with vaccines”
                      WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? Did you NOT read the article I provided? Nah, don’t bother: you DIDN’T because it shows you for the ignoramus you are.
                      ” – no rationalization as to why most of the outbreaks occur among vaccinated and fully vaccinated people as opposed to unvaccinated people.”
                      BECAUSE THEY DON’T.
                      ” Hint: vaccinated people have compromised immune systems”
                      This is false, as usual.
                      ” and might be more susceptible to damages from vaccine ingredients – weakening their response to the wild disease.”
                      You keep lying, of course.
                      ” In fact this is proven by the OAS – Original Antigenic Sin, whereby it is proven that getting a flu shot makes antibodies for those (or some of) pathogens. Then you run into another flu virus via the wild or via another vaccine – and you make more antibodies that you can’t use to fight the new disease. . So now your body fights the last war and spends energy on the OLD viruses when it needs to fight just the current threat. It’s proven to decrease immune response to the flu and new disease outbreaks.”
                      Everytime I think you can’t write anything more stupid you outdo yourself. I won’t even bother to tell you are LYING again when you talk about flu vaccines. You are, as usual. The big point is that measles, chickenpox, polio, etc, DO NOT mutate quickly enough so there is no need to create new vaccines as happens with flu.
                      “So things don’t work the way the storyline goes.”
                      The only thing not working is your brain. Go buy a functional one.

                    • Chris August 7, 2017 / 5:33 pm

                      Brad: “Actually, polio rates had decreased over 50% from ’52 through 55 – before the vaccine.”

                      Here is data from CDC Pink Book Appendix of disease rates:
                      Disease: Polio in the USA
                      Year__Cases____Deaths
                      1950__33,300___1,904
                      1951__28,386___1,551
                      1952__57,879___3,145
                      1953__35,592___1,450
                      1954__38,476___1,368
                      1955__28,985___1,043
                      1956__15,140_____566
                      1957___5,485_____221
                      1958___5,787_____255
                      1959___8,425_____454
                      1960___3,190_____230
                      1961___1,312______90
                      1962_____910______60
                      1963_____449______41
                      1964_____122______17
                      1965______72______16

                      What you are doing is cherry picking from an epidemic year. Also from http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf:

                      Year…. Rate per 100000 of polio
                      1912 . . . . 5.5
                      1920 . . . . 2.2
                      1925 . . . . 5.3
                      1930 . . . . 7.5
                      1935 . . . . 8.5
                      1940 . . . . 7.4
                      1945 . . . 10.3
                      1950 . . . 22.1
                      1955 . . . 17.6
                      1960 . . . . 1.8
                      1965 . . Less than .05

                      It is not as detailed as the CDC Pink Book, but it does show other epidemic eras. Please stop lying.

                    • MaGaO August 7, 2017 / 5:39 pm

                      He can’t, Chris.

                    • brad August 8, 2017 / 10:57 am

                      It is not lying to state that vaccine deaths and vaccine occurrences decreased WELL before any vaccine for those diseases came on the market. With the debatable exception of smallpox vaccinations which greatly increased the death and disease rates during mandatory vaccination times, and again dropped after smallpox vaccines were discontinued.
                      Were our attitudes reversed – you’d be stating that to look at the CDC data and years you mention is cherry picking, since historically the diseases all dropped with sanitation and hygiene, dropping child labor in the mines and a lot of other health factors.

                      i never trust the CDC – because they flat out lie about for instance flu deaths. They choose a rather arbitrary “flu season” and then attribute any respiratory illness related death to “flu”. They ignore the fact that one year they checked their tens of thousands of samples of “influenza” and found that it was not influenza over 80% of the time – solution “GET A FLU SHOT!” How worthless, expensive, toxic, and stupid – BUT the CDC is making over 4 BILLION dollars/year from those worthless things….

                      The same CDC which also flat-out lied about raw milk deaths. They stopped their statistics in 2007 because right after they stopped their “data analysis” there was an outbreak of PASTEURIZED MILK CONTAMINATION that made hundreds of Americans sick and killed several. Making that single contamination incident much more fatal and sickness inducing than all the raw milk data they’d presented. Which included bullshit like idiots from Mexico bringing raw (illegally imported) Mexican cheese into the US (for hours in hot, desert heat – unrefrigerated) to Mexican grocery stores in the Southwest – and saying that this illegal Mexican cheese was the same thing as a raw milk producer in Pennsylvania who has never even had a sick customer… That CDC. NOT trustworthy.

                      Then figure that in the 50s there were less diagnostic variations available, plus much of the flaccid polio-like stuff nowadays that is classified as non-polio is basically the same polio as in those days. The new classification (which may well be more accurate) used to be lumped into those higher numbers you mention. The former era likely lumped some Guillain Barre’ Syndrome into polio, etc, Now those numbers are separated – so the polio numbers look different because one is not comparing the same actual groupings from era to era.

                      Well – gotta build stuff and get ready for 40th wedding cruise…. Later.

                    • Chris August 8, 2017 / 12:02 pm

                      Brad: “But i grew up when virtually every kid got measles and the childhood diseases – i grew up in the late 50s and 60s – and we had NO fear of these diseases unlike todays foolish cowards. …”

                      So what is Olivia Dahl these days? Oh, wait. She died from measles. And so did this little boy:
                      http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-measles-sspe-20150624-story.html

                      Please stop lying.

                    • Chris August 8, 2017 / 12:06 pm

                      Brad lying again: “It is not lying to state that vaccine deaths and vaccine occurrences decreased WELL before any vaccine for those diseases came on the market. ”

                      This is not CDC data, it is from the US Census. Please tell us which decade before 1960 that measles rate went down 90% and never went up again:
                      From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
                      Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
                      1912 . . . 310.0
                      1920 . . . 480.5
                      1925 . . . 194.3
                      1930 . . . 340.8
                      1935 . . . 584.6
                      1940 . . . 220.7
                      1945 . . . 110.2
                      1950 . . . 210.1
                      1955 . . . 337.9
                      1960 . . . 245.4
                      1965 . . . 135.1
                      1970 . . . . 23.2
                      1975 . . . . 11.3
                      1980 . . . . . 5.9
                      1985 . . . . . 1.2
                      1990 . . . . .11.2
                      1991 . . . . . .3.8
                      1992 . . . . . .0.9
                      1993 . . . . . .0.1
                      1994 . . . . . .0.4
                      1995 . . . . . .0.1
                      1996 . . . . . .0.2
                      1997 . . . . . . 0.1

                      Please stop lying.

                    • Richard Daggett August 8, 2017 / 3:17 pm

                      Brad, Brad, Brad. You are either misinformed, delusional, or a troll. You wrote, “You do know that those pictures of all those polio victims in the iron lung ward were victims of the POLIO VACCINE, right? Every one in there.” I was actually in some of those “polio victims in the iron lung ward” photographs. I was in an iron lung for six months. Those photographs were all taken before 1955, the year the Salk vaccine was available to the public. Parents in the early 1950s would have fought tooth and nail to get their children vaccinated … if a vaccine had been available. You have absolutely no concept of the devastation caused by polio. I do, and so do the thousands like me.

    • Vida April 7, 2017 / 2:58 pm

      There is one thing perhaps not being stressd enough are the secondary infection that can stem from the primary infection such as measles mumps and rubella. My mother contracted measles at 13 yo and it lead to encephalitis, an almost always grave diagnosis. Most die, some go into a coma and never revive. Those that often survive have severe mental disabilities or are catatonic. (The movie “Always” is the (non-fictional) story of a ward of these catatonic survivors of encephalitis with Robert Deniro and Robin Williams.). My mother is a miracle. She survived with no deficit what so ever.
      Another side affect of being non-immune is with Rubella. If a pregnant lady is not immune (hasn’t had Rubella or has not been vaccinated BEFORE her pregnancy) and is exposed to Rubella this can cause grave birth defects in her unborn child. My grandmother was pregnant and merely exposed to Rubella. My Aunt Barbara was born with a cleft palate, hearing impairment, bilateral cataracts, multiple heart defects, and lordosis of the spine. One again our stubborn gene overcame and she lived to be 56 on our family farm. It was predicted that she would not make it till 6!
      I know these are “anecdotal” stories, but none the less true.
      And by the way, I was a RN for 38 years, 35 in maternal-fetal medicine, 30 of which I performed diagnostic ultrasound on the unborn and the their moms as well. So I could write a book regarding such cases.
      BOTTOM LINE: Please Immunize your children!
      Thank You!!!!!!!

      • Karen Zoppa April 9, 2017 / 11:50 pm

        I had three versions of rubella, scarlet fever, mumps at 16 years old, and chicken pox at age 30 – have survived and no apparent deficits except irritation.

        • MaGaO April 10, 2017 / 7:20 am

          Consider yourself lucky.

        • Gewisn April 10, 2017 / 2:19 pm

          I’m glad you’re okay.

        • Erica Cook April 10, 2017 / 3:46 pm

          16 and 30 are young adult and adult ages. Not as a child. Children who get scarlet fever don’t have a strong enough immune system. It needs help, IE vaccination. But I get it, you’d rather have a dead kid than an autistic kid. So in the off chance that the vaccinations might cause autism, even though all evidence says otherwise, you’ll let your kids die.

        • Louise Brazier April 11, 2017 / 8:29 pm

          Well, you have shingles to look forward to, as 1 out of 3 people who have had chicken pox will get shingles. I urge you to get vaccinated for that, because even though the vaccine is not 100% effective, it does cause the shingles you get to be very, very mild. And maybe you will again be lucky and it will be effective in your case.

        • Anonymous April 15, 2017 / 6:50 am

          Consider yourself very lucky having no ill effects from mumps at 16. I have a brother who is sterile as the mumps moved down to his testicles.

      • River April 10, 2017 / 9:22 am

        We are not all the same. I nearly died from the triple antigen vaccine as a baby.
        I had measles, chicken pox, mumps as a child and like every kid I knew it was a slightly uncomfortable week at home in bed. Easy peasy.
        I avoided the rubella vaccine as a child, was tested when pregnant at age 39 and found to be immune. So I mustvehad rubella at some point so mildly that no one noticedZ
        My daughter and I have EDS, it’s genetic, due to this our bodies have great difficulty eliminating toxins and we overreact to medications. However, also due to this, we have very strong immune systems.
        My daughter is unvaccinated and never gets sick. She’s played with kids with chickenpox and not caught it.
        I think more research needs to be done into the genetic mutations that lead to a much higher chance of a reaction, these kids should’ve identified and vaccinated extremely carefully and slowly. However, this is not an option in Australia.

        • Anonymous August 4, 2017 / 3:46 pm

          My daughter had a moderate reaction to her first set of variations. Her pediatrician then was very careful with her variation schedule. Spacing them, giving her small doses to allow her immune system to adjust etc. If your children are having reactions to variations and your doctor is not addressing them you need a new docyor.

  1. Darlene Hartman August 22, 2016 / 10:31 pm

    I was three years old when I contracted whooping cough, and I clearly remember the terror and panic I felt, time and again, when I would begin to cough–and cough–and cough until my vision would start to black out and I came to the very edge of fainting, when at last I’d begin to inhale, painfully slowly and with a loud ‘whooping’ sound, until I finally had a good breath. It was exhausting, frightening, and incurable. It simply had to do one thing: either it would kill you, or it would finally go away. In my case, obviously, it finally went away. It left me with asthma all my life, but at least I lived. Many children didn’t. When my husband and I had had our children and began adopting the rest of the children we felt God wanted us to have, one of the first children we adopted was our son Sam, who had no vaccine in the streets of New Delhi, India, and caught polio. He ended up affected from the neck down, and still uses a modified car (hand controls), is much shorter than he would have been (because his legs’ inability to apply pressure to his bone ends kept his leg bones from growing longer) and has to use two braces and a crutch to get around. Granted, he earned a Masters’ Degree and is a Fourth Degree Knight of Columbus, even with his handicap. But if he had only been able to have vaccinations… Please, people, get your children vaccinated. You don’twant to have to sit beside their hospital bed and hold their hands while they suffer. Life is hard enough. It’s one little shot. Please…

    • Chris August 24, 2016 / 1:14 am

      Thank you so much.

      I very much remember getting chicken pox and mumps, and suffered a great deal. I do not understand why anyone would want a child to suffer from preventable diseases.

      • Tammy m April 3, 2017 / 10:02 pm

        It’s so much better to suffer from a brief infectious disease than to suffer a lifetime of vaccine induced injury. I have multiple sclerosis from the hepatitis b vaccine. All 3 of my children are vaccine injured. Vaccines are ineffective, unsafe, and contaminated. I’m writing a book on how vaccines are creating a public health crisis by spreading disease, causing autoimmune disease, allergies, seizures, death, and more.

        • Colin April 3, 2017 / 11:29 pm

          What procedure did you follow to determine the cause of your MS?

        • MaGaO April 4, 2017 / 12:58 am

          What injuries did your children sustain by being vaccinated?

        • Chris April 4, 2017 / 1:39 am

          “All 3 of my children are vaccine injured.”

          How would you verify that? Do you have the PubMed indexed case study reports? How about a ruling from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? My son got seizures from an actual disease before its vaccine was available. Is there a Disease Injury Compensation Program? Don’t be shy, if you make a claim then you should be able to support that claim with actual factual evidence. So no excuses.

          “Vaccines are ineffective, unsafe, and contaminated.”

          Really? Do tell. First provide the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that the MMR vaccine used in the United States of America since 1978 had caused more injury than measles, mumps and rubella.

          Then tell us why the rate of measles incidence dropped 90% in the United States of America between 1960 and 1970 based on US Census data from the 20th Century. Provide actual scientific references to support your answer.

          Also, do not change the subject. This means you will not mention deaths (the data is on incidence/morbidity), do not mention any other country (the date is from the USA only), do not mention any other disease (it is just on measles)… and do not mention any other decade unless the incidence decrease was at least 90% and never increased:

          From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
          Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
          1912 . . . 310.0
          1920 . . . 480.5
          1925 . . . 194.3
          1930 . . . 340.8
          1935 . . . 584.6
          1940 . . . 220.7
          1945 . . . 110.2
          1950 . . . 210.1
          1955 . . . 337.9
          1960 . . . 245.4
          1965 . . . 135.1
          1970 . . . . 23.2
          1975 . . . . 11.3
          1980 . . . . . 5.9
          1985 . . . . . 1.2
          1990 . . . . .11.2
          1991 . . . . . .3.8
          1992 . . . . . .0.9
          1993 . . . . . .0.1
          1994 . . . . . .0.4
          1995 . . . . . .0.1
          1996 . . . . . .0.2
          1997 . . . . . . 0.1

          • brad April 11, 2017 / 1:36 pm

            You just linked a nice chart again showing that the infectious disease (basically all them – regardless of whether they have a vaccine for them or not) decreased prior to the invention of the vaccine.
            If one looks at the plunge in the charts regarding measles deaths – one sees that without vaccines, the anticipated no-death date was in the early 80s – exactly when that happened – but “JABBERS” claim that all the glory goes to the vaccine – when the situation was constantly improving since WAY before vaccines came on the market.

            Doesn’t matter if you are talking measles or scarlet fever, mumps, polio, or smallpox – the parallels are that all the diseases decreased a long time prior to the vaccines were even available, and the advent of vaccines did not cause an incredible decline in disease deaths, etc.

            • Chris April 11, 2017 / 3:24 pm

              ” the infectious disease (basically all them – regardless of whether they have a vaccine for them or not) decreased prior to the invention of the vaccine.”

              Where did I do that, link to it? Are you mixing up morbidity with mortality?

              “the anticipated no-death date was in the early 80s – exactly when that happened”

              Um, so it had nothing to do with the vaccines that were introduced twenty years before in the early 1960s? Seriously, can you not read a simple table? It has nothing about death, it is only rate of incidence. Get a dictionary, learn the difference!

              Really, tell us why the rate of measles incidence in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970, and never went up to the same levels as before.

            • Lu April 17, 2017 / 9:42 am

              Yes, Brad, there were slight decreases prior to the introduction of vaccines…in direct ratio to massive effort at public education regarding sanitary practices to reduce the spread of these diseases (the only recourse we had available at the time).
              So what have you proven?

        • Michael April 6, 2017 / 7:11 am

          Oh yes, nothing like a brief bout of polio to get the legs racing! I highly suspect you are either full of it or have been seriously lied to. Unfortunately I hope it’s the latter.

        • Notnearlyanonymous April 7, 2017 / 8:33 am

          “I have multiple sclerosis from the hepatitis b vaccine. All 3 of my children are vaccine injured. ”
          I’m sorry that you and your children suffer.
          But, surely, you don’t expect people to believe that the vaccines are the cause on just your word.

          Where on the web have you posted the 4 medical records in their entirety so that we may all see the obvious trail of evidence leading to the inescapable conclusion that there is proof up to a “medical certainty” that the vaccines caused the problems you cite. Please include the testing results from every step in the process to determine the vaccines caused the problems from which you all suffer.

          If you can’t provide evidence, what do you imagine everyone readiing this, even other anti-vaxxers, think of your statements?

          Let me save us some time.

          “I don’t have to show you the records.”
          Of course you don’t have to.
          If you want rational people to believe a claim that, if true, would have lots of evidence, then you’d need to provide that evidence.

          “I don’t care what people think.”
          If that was true, you wouldn’t have posted your comment.

          “This is important. I present this information for others’ benefit. If you want to ignore it, that’s on you.”
          Nice try, but you can’t shift the burden of proof by claiming to be altruistic, but too lazy to provide the evidence to back up your claim.
          ‘Cause that wouldn’t really be very altruistic, would it?

          “HIPAA Privacy laws prevent me from posting medical records.”
          No. No, they don’t. HIPAA laws in the US prevent your medical providers from releasing medical information that still contains any information linked directed to an individual person (name, age, DOB, SS#, address, etc) without the patient’s or parent’s permission. Those laws have no effect whatsoever in preventing you from posting your own medical records.

          “The doctor won’t release the records to me.”
          That would be a serious breach of conduct on the part of the doctor. Please list the doctor’s name, address, phone, and the range of dates during which the testing was done to determine that it was vaccines that caused the injury and I will personally assist you to file the appropriate complaints with your state Medical Board and State Dept of Health Services so the the doctor will be forced to turn over the records to you.

          “The doctor told me it was absolutely the vaccines that caused the injury, but the doctor was not allowed to write that down in the chart.”
          One of the two of you is lying, or so massively misunderstanding the situation that it’s nearly unfathomable. There is no rule, code, law, or anything else that can prevent the doctor from documenting his/her medical reasoning as to what the cause of an ailment or injury is. In fact, it is that very judgment that doctors are paid for.

          “The doctor told me, but I never got any records.”
          Please either get the records or get a current letter from the doctor stating the conclusion that the vaccines caused the situation for all 4 of you, and be sure the doctor includes the reasons for arriving at that conclusion.

        • Anonymous April 7, 2017 / 1:15 pm

          Wow, you must be smarter than all the scientists in the world seeing as no one knows what causes MS.

          • jimbob April 8, 2017 / 8:34 am

            Actually it is an autoimmune response brought on by vaccines in people very susceptible to vaccine injury.
            The pathway of vaccinations (directly into the body via needle) is very unnatural, most diseases enter via the lungs or stomach where 1st, 2nd and even 3rd levels of immune response normally deal with the disease. Direct input via the vaccine method overstimulates the immune response to run around attacking everything.

            Is it a coincidence that at months 3-4 children get a huge volume of vaccines, we can all agree on this.
            Is it a coincidence that this is the spike in Cot deaths?

            Aluminium obtained via breast milk has to go through the digestion system and never reaches the blood stream. Injected into the blood stream via vaccine means it is in the blood stream and hangs out in the brain. You compared bananas to apples, a typical way to get your point across…WRONGLY!

            Vaccinations kill more people then the disease would per capita with todays antibiotics, immune boosting medications and medical advancement.

            • MaGaO April 8, 2017 / 9:51 am

              “Actually it is an autoimmune response brought on by vaccines in people very susceptible to vaccine injury.”
              Would you please provide the studies that demonstrate that cause-effect relationship?
              “The pathway of vaccinations (directly into the body via needle) is very unnatural, most diseases enter via the lungs or stomach where 1st, 2nd and even 3rd levels of immune response normally deal with the disease.”
              Most but not all. E.g., rabies does not get inside the body through lungs or digestive tract. Neither does Yersinia pestis. Then again, bubonic plague kills quite often if not treated so maybe multiple sclerosis is the least concern that people have at the time.
              ” Direct input via the vaccine method overstimulates the immune response to run around attacking everything.”
              Actually, no, it doesn’t: it attacks what it does not recognize as proper to the body. Namely the antigens provided with the vaccine. Also, the reaction is locally induced (because vascularization is not that extensive subdermically).
              “Is it a coincidence that at months 3-4 children get a huge volume of vaccines, we can all agree on this.
              Is it a coincidence that this is the spike in Cot deaths?”
              Yes, it is a coincidence. Even more, it is unrelated to multiple sclerosis. Please try to stay on topic.
              “Aluminium obtained via breast milk has to go through the digestion system and never reaches the blood stream.”
              This is incorrect. In fact, aluminum hydroxide is used to reduce phosphate levels in persons with certain kidney conditions (https://www.drugs.com/mtm/aluminum-hydroxide.html).
              ” Injected into the blood stream”
              This does not happen.
              ” via vaccine means it is in the blood stream and hangs out in the brain.”
              This does not happen.
              ” You compared bananas to apples, a typical way to get your point across…WRONGLY!”
              Except the comparison is correct and your understanding of the issue is not, as far as can be concluded from your comment.

              • Chris April 8, 2017 / 12:09 pm

                “Is it a coincidence that this is the spike in Cot deaths?”
                Yes, it is a coincidence.”

                Especially since it is not happening. The incidence of SIDS has declined a great deal since 1990:
                http://sids.org/what-is-sidssuid/incidence/

                • MaGaO April 8, 2017 / 12:22 pm

                  Outdated information used by antivaxxers? Say it isn’t true!
                  Seriously now, thanks for the information.

            • Anonymous April 8, 2017 / 3:44 pm

              Except new studies into the microbiology are showing that it is antibiotics which do more harm than vaccines. Research is now being done to look at links between IBS and antibiotics….and obesity (in mothers as well as child’s own diet) to autumn.

            • moladood April 12, 2017 / 10:42 pm

              Since when are vaccines injected into the blood stream? I have never had one of those, likely because it is not true, it’s just misinformation. Aluminum is abundant, a scraped knee has likely the same effect as getting it directly into the blood stream as a vaccine. Do you home work before during lies or show some facts on how vaccines are administered that supports your statement.

        • Mary Jane Smith April 9, 2017 / 5:49 am

          You may well have had your Hep B shots at around the same time as you developed symptoms of MS but that in no way implies the vaccination caused it. I too have MS but can guarantee vaccinations did not cause my MS. No one knows yet what causes MS so to say emphatically that is is a ‘vaccine injury’ is blatantly false.

          You are describing a correlating event, not a causative event.

        • Max P April 11, 2017 / 9:43 am

          MS is a genetic condition, much like is stated at the end of the article, the symptoms may have only become noticable after you got the vaccine. It’s a simple case of correlation does not equal causation.

          • brad April 18, 2017 / 4:29 pm

            So sorry for your issues, hope you are doing good things for you and yours, like raw fermented foods, raw dairy, grass-fed grass FINISHED livestock vs CAFO poison foods. Ketogenic diet. When i had my 10,000 hard copy articles (which i don’t have PROOF of here, so they disbelieve i had any – and since it wasn’t on PubMed…) but an article pointed out that there is a supplement proven in double blind studies to rebuild myelin sheathing – Calcium EAP. The MS doctors don’t tell their patients about it – and you can find articles from the MS Society telling you NOT TO TAKE IT – but there are others which advocate using it.

            Ketogenic diet has been shown to rebuild synapses and myelin sheathing. People have literally reversed Alzheimers with this, and seen improvements in MS, ALS, Parkinsons because all of these diseases have a myelin sheathing component to them. Probably the mercury – you can download a time-lapse video in which the mercury dissolves the myelin sheathing and then destroys the nerves…Other things are also neurotoxic. Squalene, MSG. Aluminum. Vaccine DNA – and more – the DNA and protein fragments are known to sometimes cause mutagenesis with autoimmune assaults upon people’s own body.

            When i was in Minnesota, i gave information to two ladies who used the Canadian Study to stop their MS in it’s tracks. This is another thing “BANNED” by the MS Society. But totally eliminating the hydrogenated fats and bad vegetable fats and replacing them with healthy fats and a good Omega 3,6,9 ratio can stop it – but it has to be iron control. Beverly did this – very type A person – and she has had no issues since, and two babies. Mary Lou was not as careful, and when some bad fats would slip by her watch – she would develop neuropathic burning and tingling in her (usually) hands, sometimes feet too…

            • MaGaO April 18, 2017 / 5:10 pm

              Not happy with spouting nonsense about everything else, now you get into diets.
              XDDDDDDD
              Is the fire of your mythical 10000 articles unavailable anywhere else still burning?

            • Who knew you want to go to jail? April 18, 2017 / 7:39 pm

              Hey, Brad.
              Tell us what state you’re in, so we can arrange for you to meet your state attorney general regarding you practicing medicine without a license.

              Look it up in your own state and see if telling a person what to take or not take (prescription out not) in order to treat a particular illness constitutes practicing medicine without a license.
              Look it up in your state and provide us the definition of the crime.

              • brad April 21, 2017 / 12:12 pm

                When i lived in Minnesota, the state law literally defined anything you told your kids was practicing medicine without a license. So i’d see kids in T-SHIRTS AND LONG SHORTS (!!!!!) standing at a bus stop for 15 minutes or more in weather that was BELOW ZERO FAHRENHEIT!!!!
                If their mother said – dress warmer or you’ll get a cold – practicing medicine without a license.

                i am not telling you to not vaccinate you or your kids. i’m saying that there is no proof that it is safe and lots of indications that it isn’t anywhere nearly as effective as you claim, and therefore i choose to not do so – at all – and state emphatically no “authority” has any right to force any vaccinations upon anyone else. That is our human freedom, which cannot be imposed upon by even the Constitution – the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND – so it doesn’t matter if congress passes mandatory vax legislation. It doesn’t matter if the Prez puts out an Executive Order. It doesn’t matter at all if the Supreme Court Moron-jority makes some stupid ruling saying “govt” can do so. NONE of them have the authority to invalidate the constitution. Period. Such laws are legally null and void from the moment of signing, and the guys who WROTE the constitution and prevented the govt from over-ruling the constitution state that we can disobey those laws. T Jefferson stated it is your DUTY to disobey anti-constitutional laws.

                The Geneva convention states that nobody can force ANY medical procedure upon you without YOUR INFORMED CONSENT. Doctors do not give parents informed consent. Try to get a vaccine insert the next time you (foolishly in my opinion) line up for a flu shot to reduce your immune system effectiveness. Go ahead – try to get a vaccine insert from him/her. Watch their hackles raise, their guilt and intimidation (taught in med school in lieu of information regarding ingredients, signs for adverse reactions to look for, how to fill out a VAERS report, etc)

                The Nuremberg trials brought out these principles and echo that INFORMED CONSENT before any medical procedure. The UN agrees. The constitution gives NO authority over our health choices to the federal govt at all and in fact denies the fed govt any authority in this arena whatsoever. The State of California Constitution states very clearly in the patient’s rights section that for ANY medical procedure the patient must be provided full medical disclosure (think you have to specify that) and that they get time to read/understand the implications. The next section states that regardless of “how good the procedure is considered to be” that the patient can ALWAYS REFUSE ANY MEDICAL PROCEDURE – at all. So mandatory vax is not legal or more importantly – lawful – and like the fed constitution – the state legislature CANNOT LAWFULLY OVERRULE THE CONSTITUTION, NOR CAN THE COURTS, OR GOVERNOR – but they pretend that they can, and with the big $$$ of drug-pusher psychos and their almost ownership of the press – their story is the only one told.

                So take your vaccines. i look at it as being somewhat like Darwinian pruning.i would truly be sorry if you or your children are one of those damaged by the vaccines – which is where most “anti-vaxxers” come from – but again that is your choice.

                The people arguing here worship PubMed – and i did link one esteemed doctor who has been censored on PubMed for correcting an article which implied concepts regarding HPV which were erroneous. Ironically, one person most adamant about my using such sources as the only valid information in the world (apparently) stated that “proof” was in the cemeteries of my childhood region regarding all the kids killed with vaccines. Yet in conversations with many who grew up in the same area – very few of us knew anyone who was damaged or killed by the childhood diseases which your generations are trained to fear so vehemently. We never did fear them at all. They were a younger coming of age thing, and i appreciated getting out of school. i wished i could get them every year and was so disappointed….

                So how do the cemeteries list measles death? Mumps death? Chicken pox death? Answer – they obviously don’t. It was just a dramatic, emotive, pointless statement. And while he may argue that he was “using logic” in that statement as i was, i fail to see the logic in falsely attributing death to childhood diseases to a level in which he/she practically insisted that my siblings and i DID see deaths and permanent injuries from childhood diseases. So magically he knows more about my life and 7 siblings than i do. Don’t you just love magic? It can do anything.

                So here’s the difference btwn that “logic” (makes me see why they have to rely on PubMed with “logic” like that, lol) and what i’m seeing.

                You “JABBERS” tell me that vaccines are safe. Yet there are no studies of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people sponsored by industry. Someone provided a link about 3 forevers ago, but i’m a little busy – but the CDC has stated that they have conducted no such study.

                You have no study proving that mercury in vaccines is safe. (Don’t bring up Thorsen the felon – you will get shot down – and even the CDC admitted in front of congress the Thorsen studies were not good – then said they stood by “the body of work of the CDC regarding mercury”. Which is the two invalidated studies by Thorsen. Implied that mercury is safe from other, non-existent studies….

                Despite the synergistic toxicity proven when other neurotoxins are combined with mercury to increase mercury toxicity by about 1,000 times – you have no studies about how neurotoxic and synergistic aluminum affect things. Or the squalene. Or the neurotoxic MSG. Or neurotoxic Polysorbate 80. These are compounds that people in laboratories have to wear personal protective gear for – to both prevent contamination of ingredients, but also so that they don’t get sick or killed by touching those things.

                Then you inject them into your muscles – brilliant. All this toxicity – to make you HEALTHY, lol. Even live diseases sometimes. Then there is the problem of dosage. Say Paul (“Dr”) Offitt is 180 pounds. He gets the same dose as a 9 pound infant – which by body weight would be equivalent to Paulie boy getting 20 shots. If you have a 6 pound infant – that would be like Paul getting THIRTY shots. Then you figure that multiple shots are given…. No wonder he stormed off TV. He officiously stated that an infant could have 10,000 vaccines in one day and be perfectly healthy. Wow – about 5 liters – say half that for combined doses – in the muscles with poisons, toxic metals, adjuvants designed to KILL human cells (that’s why they “work” to make antigens increase,duh) diseases, and of course DNA to cause mutagenesis. All this to be more healthy….right. So here’s an article pointing out how getting infant dosage CORRECT would be virtually impossible. Can’t do it by body weight. Can’t just do it by age. Each individual is going to metabolize things differently and since the stuff in the shots is designed to be eliminated – the infant involved can have multiple times the expected rate of clearance and elimination – if it ever happens. (we know aluminum ends up settling in the brain…) Oh – this is a PDF
                vaccineliberationarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/DJped-cyp-enzyms.pdf

                Then of course there is that neonate intensive care nurse in Redmond who quit because in the ward where she worked they insisted on giving the babies their “2 month shot” regardless of whether the baby came out at 3 months, 6 months, or whenever…

                “I’ve sat in a room with our on-call staff of physicians and practitioners (when they say) “Oh wow, this is so embarrassing this 25 weeker never actually required a breathing tube and going on the vent after he was born, he was so strong. But we gave him his two month vaccinations and he got intubated last night ha ha, oops how embarrassing. The step-down units are calling the NICU’s and saying “hey we’re going to go ahead and give these four babies their two month shots today, make sure you have beds ready because we all know they’re going to have increased breathing difficulties, feeding and digestion difficulties, apnea, and bradycardia. This is what goes on.”

                “All ELBW [extremely low-birth-weight] infants in the NICU had an increased incidence of sepsis evaluations and increased respiratory support and intubation after routine immunization.”

                “The micro preemies can be born as much as four months early; two months they get their vaccines. We see them go off on their feeds, lethargic, fevers and it sets them back…and I don’t want to be a part of that anymore.”

                Here’s an article from JAMA which brings out almost all her points…http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2300376?utm_source=silverchair%20information%20systems&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=jamapediatrics:onlinefirst06/01/2015

                But it’s lovely for a normal baby.

                So you can shoot up all you want. i’ve seen and looked at enough of the “medical system” (disease management, control, and proliferation industry) to know that many of the standards of care are literally damaging. i think vaccines are an extension of that, and possibly a more damaging extension of all the medical arms. Is it as stupid as standing in front of an ionizing radiation machine and getting hit with carcinogenic radiation for a mammogram in the most radioactive sensitive part of human anatomy? Perhaps, perhaps not. Is it as dangerous as taking antacids for heartburn and GERDS.

                i hope you and yours – and all the people here – have a good life, but i’m going to work on my fence project – go to town and get the needed fence hinge pins, i’ve already deleted over 40 emails, done an hour’s worth of my on-line Permaculture Design Course, Read from the Self Sufficient Farmstead book an hour or so after getting up and getting some firewood to take the chill off this morning. The other books i am rotating reading are the Anti-Federalist Papers, Mycorrhizal Planet, Test your soil with plants, and usually a “fluffy” book to disengage from the heavy societal stuff we get into here and elsewhere. i also have to wire the ceiling lights where i took out the bearing wall btwn the kitchen/DR so that we can put in more cabinets for needed storage (1943 house) and a pass-through. Already built the cabinets, need to do a couple more steps on the Drywall repairs, build the boxed beam around the lighting i hang over the counters, and of course keep the goats and hogs out of trouble…So i have another busy day in front of me – dammut. Need to turn the Berkely compost pile. A good cubic meter of compost that needs to be turned every two days to make compost in 18 days if you get the ingredients perfect. Mine usually takes a few days longer because there is no consistent nitrogen/carbon ratio on the animal bedding and deep chicken bedding…Gotta adjust on the fly. Plus put in low fence to keep the tiny hogs from going into the road, mow garden sections before i till the top two/three inches…

                What the hell am i suffering here for? GO! Have a great day. Think i’m not likely to be back here – the JABBERS have done nothing to convince me that vaccines are good for me or society in general, and i’m not going to change your mind. i’ll take my life experience, permanent immunity (dream on buddy – you ain’t getting any) and generally healthy life into the future and work to help the planet instead of make it more toxic. That’s good for you in a minor way too.

                Later.

                brad

                • Patrick April 21, 2017 / 2:23 pm

                  Don’t let the door hit your bum on the way out Brad! 🙂

                • Jack Spratt April 21, 2017 / 4:48 pm

                  You did tell someone here what to take and not take for MS, and implied (falsely) that you know what you’re taking about.

                  That is, in every state, practicing medicine without a license.
                  Is that a felony in your state?

                  • brad April 21, 2017 / 6:09 pm

                    i provided them information about what some people had successfully done to stop the progression of their Multiple Sclerosis – since it HAD stopped these people’s multiple sclerosis.

                    The medical profession considers that impossible – and who the phukk does the Multiple Sclerosis Society think they are to tell people that they are not allowed to read the Canadian Study which was the basis of these peoples disease control? PHUK them – damn Nazis.

                    So MaryAnne was presented with this knowledge as a possibility – not “DO THIS” because i said so. It was freely given information about what had helped others, and she INVESTIGATED FURTHER, BOUGHT THE STUDY FROM SOMEWHERE and started following it.

                    Her multiple sclerosis stopped getting worse, her neuralgia and burning in her extremities and occasional bouts of near-blindness STOPPED when SHE chose to follow that protocol. So she got better – what the hell’s your bitch? i gave her information and a choice – just as i’ve told other people what some have done in their situation.

                    Most people ignore it. Some very few change their lives. One woman within 2 weeks dropped her Type II diabetes blood sugar levels from near 400 to below 200 – and had to check her blood sugar twice as often every day because it was dropping so much, every day. What did i tell her about? About how chromium is necessary for glucose metabolization, and how vanadium has been proven to act like insulin even where no insulin is present. She went to GNC after researching it, bought some chromium picolinate (chromium aspartate is better according to some) and a product called “Vanadol” which was the only vanadium supplement she could find. Bam – blood sugar getting under control.

                    Another woman i knew was hypoglycemic. Had been diagnosed with it over 50 years before. She said that if she didn’t eat her meals by the timer – she would pass out. And she said her brother had it BAD (whatever that could possibly be!) She took some colloidal minerals from the Utah Humic Shale deposit (citric acid based) and one ounce per day. She was able for the first time ever – to walk to work at a “pick your own” strawberry and raspberry farm – a quarter mile away, and not have to stop on the way there or back. She came home and for the first time in several decades did not have to crash for an hour or so after the walk.

                    Her sister was impressed, and taking over 375 dollars in cholesterol meds every month. No changes in her cholesterol levels – this was about 97. i told her about Dr Johanna Budwig’s research – you know – head of her class in medical school, then went back and graduated at the head of her class in physics – in Germany. That Dr Budwig. The EFA guru. Dr Budwig recommended 1 tablespoon of preferably high lignans flax oil (in the US, the only brand she endorsed was Barleans – read the freshness date when you buy) and put the tablespoon in a lowfat cottage cheese. The sulfurated proteins in the cottage cheese act like a chelating agent, and bring the fats to places in the body that are usually limited to either only fat or only water soluble nutrients reaching them. The proteins allowed whole body access. The flax oil has a better blend of Omega 3s to Omega 6s/9s. It has about a half dozen anti-cancer properties and an equal amount of properties that protect and repair one’s vascular system. (including cholesterol balancing with triglycerides) AND they are precursors to many hormones – so they are a very healthy thing to consume, and especially so if one doesn’t have a dairy allergy.

                    So – i didn’t act like a doctor “DO THIS” i provided information, encouraged them to look into it, and these few are among those who did and improved their health and lives.

                    • Jack Spratt April 21, 2017 / 6:41 pm

                      Oh good, you are willing to admit that you don’t know enough to be giving anyone medical advice – when you realize you could be held accountantable.

                      I respect that.

                    • brad April 21, 2017 / 10:37 pm

                      Screw the “govt”. i’m more of an anarchist, Our county, state, and fed govts are not legitimate anyway, and most all their regulations are anti-constitutional which makes them null and void.

                      Do they have a big stick and willingness to whack the shyt out of me? Oh i bet they do, but there are some lines i won’t cross.

                      My not giving advice is a personal thing – i’m a horrible salesperson, but honestly want to have people live a good, healthy life. So i never push someone to buy my service (used to build million dollar homes in SW Colorado) and always give them more value than they pay for. With health information the way that works out is that i present options that people aren’t usually aware of, and let them figure out what THEY want to do, because i resent people trying to dictate to me, and i refuse to push them a direction that i might “think is right” when it may not be right for them.

                      So it’s not fear of the med-Nazi’s that stops me from “practicing medicine without a license” – i leave that for my state to illegally do – practice medicine without a license. Phukkurs.

                    • MaGaO April 22, 2017 / 2:31 am

                      You are not an anarchist. You are a liar through and through.
                      You keep writing nonsense about your supposed success in healing people and expect anyone to believe you just on your saying so.
                      And since you have taken such a beating on the vaccine issue to the point nobody cares to answer your ramblings now you try to get attention with even more idiocy.
                      Please an hero.

                    • brad April 25, 2017 / 9:41 pm

                      Lol on th3 vaccine stuff. It’s real easy to “win” a discussion/argument when one insists that ONLY the information they accept as “real” has any validity or relevance.You are using the exact same cigarette science as has historically been done – and i grew up with those “more doctors prefer to smoke camels” ads and having “doctors” tell us on advertisements that the reduction in stress from smoking made cigarettes healthy for you.

                      You are doing the same thing here – taking ONLY industry sponsored studies.

                      Forget that in the middle of the last century, doctors found out about agammaglobulinaemia – where these people CANNOT MAKE ANY ANTIGENS AT ALL.

                      They also found out that they would get the same diseases as everyone else and still heal their self despite never making a single antigen. So your stupid paradigm of “we know vaccines are “effective” because they cause antigens” is bullshit. OTHER things heal or at least heal also. Your antigen response looks pretty much like an allergic reaction when you think about it. So your measurement of vax effectiveness is total shit.

                      Then you have no studies for the long term showing that the vaccine prevented your injectee from getting that disease or others.

                      Here’s some real vax history you don’t want to know about – based upon the con-man and fraud Jenner – who was NOT a physician or doctor…

                      http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/07/28/5-historical-vaccine-scandals-suppressed-establishment/?utm_source=Waking+Times+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=046ff15200-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_term=0_25f1e048c1-046ff15200-54396433

                      Oh – and here’s an interesting thing for you to hunt down – Oct, 2016 Townsend Letter editorial – issue #399 the discussion is on the FDA illegally claiming that Myers Cocktail is a new drug. It has been used for a LONG time, and is a slow, intravenous infusion of magnesium, B vitamins, Vitamin C, and sometimes calcium. It is made in compounding pharmacies and used to cost this doctor about $5 and the patient $27.

                      Now it is attacked by the FDA as a new drug – when it isn’t a damn drug and as the author points out is over 80 years old. To briefly quote him – and you’ll find this interesting – “Frederick Klenner was curing polio and other viral diseases with injectable vitamin C before today’s present FDA officials were even born…”

                      http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerbio.html

                      Cured polio, stopped measles, dried up chicken pox, changed the disease course of MS, ALS, and more…

                    • Jmac April 25, 2017 / 10:03 pm

                      We get that this post is all part and parcel of the “Gish Gallop”, but that you can’t discriminate between an antigen and antibody destroys your credibility (even more) and makes everything you say thereafter irrelevant. I would recommend an immunology course at your local community college. You might learn something new!

                    • can't stand cowards April 22, 2017 / 9:08 pm

                      Oh yeah. You’re an anarchist and don’t care what the government thinks. Sure.

                      You spewed direct advice like you couldn’t stop yourself until it was pointed out that you could be prosecuted. Then you suggested people not follow your advice.
                      And you sure didn’t give up your name/address for the sake of seeing how your state atty general took to your medical advice to a particular person about a particular illness, did you?

                    • brad April 25, 2017 / 11:17 am

                      You quoted me as telling people about some things which have worked for others – not your words of course – but that’s what i did. i DO NOT say “if you have X symptoms you need to try herb ZZ or this naturopathic practice.” That is not what i’ve ever done since i don’t push people – i try to present information and they can take it or leave it.
                      That is not practicing medicine, silly little one.
                      And the intelligence of putting one’s name and address out on the internet? Why don’t YOU do so in order to let the ignorant “anti-vaxxers” to come to your house and seek your wisdom in adoration of your beneficent sharing of wisdom?

                      YOU are telling me to vax at LEAST as much as my suggestions are “practicing medicine”. When you say that people have to vaccinate YOU are not just violating my human rights on so many levels that you are ignorant of, but you are telling me that i (and others) need a “one-size-fits-all” toxic “solution” THAT DOESN’T WORK – and is not effective.

                      In fact all it’s done is shift the dangers to older people, infants, and young adults and post pubescent kids. ALL of which are MORE endangered by YOUR medical practice of telling us to all get shots – so get off it my friend. You are more guilty than i am. At least i just tried to present reasons why i won’t choose to vaccinate – you tell people – without knowing their personal health, health history, bodily reactions or ANYTHING AT ALL about them – that this ONE practice is going to help EVERYONE, EVERY TIME, FOR EVERY VACCINE, FOREVER.

                      Talk about getting it backward – so confess to your state DA and let them prosecute you for practicing medicine without a license. At least when i presented information to Gary and Renee for their dad – they investigated, did a variation of what i mentioned as working for others – and got his 81 year old dad free of cancer. When i told Mary Ellen about the Canadian protocol, SHE decided to look into it, was intimidated, but did her best and implemented it. SHE practiced medicine. Gary did. On down the line. i provided options your damn MD doesn’t generally know about since 95% have no training in biochemistry or nutrition and are thus incapable of helping people to deeper healing because all they do is cover they symptoms instead of clear up the root issue when possible…

                      Call it practicing medicine if you want – you are wrong.

                    • Patrick April 21, 2017 / 10:00 pm

                      And much lighter wallets, I dare say.

                    • brad April 21, 2017 / 10:19 pm

                      Really, REALLY! Your ignorance is leaking out of your cerebral diaper! If you use a standard MD who says you ARE going to get worse and there’s nothing you can do about it – they are going to get you to try experimental drugs – kaching. The wheelchairs cost bucks – kaching. You have to get a vehicle that hauls wheelchairs – kaching.
                      These people had to CUT OUT EVERY BIT OF HYDROGENATED FATS and replace them with good, safer EFAs – like coconut oil, grass fed-grass FINISHED livestock, (instead of toxic CAFO krap) Because they couldn’t control the fats in other’s cooking – they stopped going out to restaurants – cooking from scratch saves MAJOR money over that. Oooh – good olive oil.

                      Having to take tons of diabetic tests, watch your diet, take medications – bigtime kaching – cutting those out and taking 2$ worth of supplements per day? Worse? And avoiding that removal of your feet, or going blind – what the hell would that be worth to you?

                      As the lady said – $375/month (in 90s) for cholesterol medicine that doesn’t work. So maybe $40 of Barleans high lignans oil per month, and maybe that much for cottage cheese? Doubt it. saving hundreds of $$$ per month there.

                      Not to mention her cholesterol BALANCED!!! The reason this is so critical is because when you are idiot enough to take statins (for example) and really really lower your cholesterol, you have to start thinking about all those studies that prove those people with very low LDL cholesterol die SOONER than those with high LDL cholesterol levels. Maybe because your body is designed to USE that stuff, like combining it with melatonin and sunlight and making vitamin D3 which helps your brain function, fights cancer and is something you need or you die??? Maybe like that?

                      So not only is your estimate of “therapy choice” ludicrous in terms of economics, but to recover health from being basically disabled for some of them????

                      What a stupid comment – i’m sorry – but that was just stupid.

        • brad April 18, 2017 / 6:33 pm

          Tammy – you might find this interesting. Again – as far as i got – they didn’t mention calcium EAP – and there are other things that have helped SOME people. A lady in a wheelchair because of MS in North Carolina – NO feeling in her legs at all for years – was in her garden w/husband and panicked when a bee landed on her. She shouted, screamed – and was stung.

          Several minutes later she could feel her leg in the area of the bee sting. She got her husband to get more bees, and sting her on purpose! It worked for her and some others she tried it with, not a huge percentage.

          There are some people who have gotten rid of their MS in about 6 months by simply and totally eliminating their artificial sweeteners, since they are all neurotoxic. Splenda is an organochloride compound – closely related to pesticides – and is measured in the Gulf Stream over half-way across the Atlantic – so it doesn’t break down well. Goes through your body, into the sewage/water treatment plant, river, Gulf of Mexico – across the Atlantic….

          i like the Weston Price approach listed in this article – removing the root canals since there has never been a safe one…

          https://www.cancertutor.com/ms/

          • MaGaO April 18, 2017 / 6:35 pm

            Yet another load of garbage… I pity your family, I pity your animals, I pity the people who have to deal with you everyday in real life.

        • haley May 5, 2017 / 10:41 am

          I sincerely hope that you have some studies and proof to back this up and it won’t be another article that anti-vaxxers post that have absolutely no accreditation, but do they care? NO! And they share it and quote it like the Bible. Just because someone says something or believes something does not make it true. Science is true weather you like it or noT.

          • brad May 11, 2017 / 12:13 pm

            You seem unaware of the intensive efforts to absolutely discredit any injuries caused by vaccines. Most JABBERS are either unaware or choose to ignore the fact that over $3,000,000,000 dollars in “awards” (sounds like they just won a basketball tournament instead of getting permanently damaged by a vaccine) for proven damages caused by vaccines. MANY problems from death on down to “little things” like being stuck in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, or having ASD (83 cases in which encephalopathy and other vaccine induced damages INCLUDED autism spectrum disorder damages by vaccines)

            Here is an article by an ER nurse who has NEVER had any other ER nurse or doctor fill out a VAERS report in his 20+ years – and has had MDs actively REMOVE his LEGALLY MANDATED information about children who had their vaccines a few hours or a day before being rushed into the ER with convulsions and more… Since the vaccine happened within a specific time frame they are SUPPOSED to report that – but the MDs NEVER do, and they have literally gotten rid of his reports about the timing of the vaccine before the ER events.

            http://vaccinecommonsense.com/2016/03/10/e-r-nurse-shares-his-experiences-with-vaccine-reactions/

            Another http://vaccinationinjury.blogspot.com/2015/12/er-vaccine-injury-cover-up.html

            The entire VICP (Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) is an unconstitutional court, stacked against the victims of vaccine damage – and less than 10% of the vaccine damages are even reported, much less make it to the court. Despite this – over Three Billion – more like 3-1/2 billion – paid out for vaccine proven damages.

            • Chris May 11, 2017 / 12:45 pm

              “Despite this – over Three Billion – more like 3-1/2 billion – paid out for vaccine proven damages.”

              You seem to have trouble answering simple questions, especially in regards to your claims. First you claimed that I had “… just linked a nice chart again showing that the infectious disease (basically all them – regardless of whether they have a vaccine for them or not) decreased prior to the invention of the vaccine.” The table was only on measles, and only on incidence. So exactly why did the number of measles cases plummet 90% between 1960 and 1970 in the USA? Support your answer with PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers (not random biased websites).

              Later you screamed: ““The reason i am against MANDATORY vaccination ….”

              Again, where does this happen? Just post the state and accompanying legislative law. In the USA the states just put in requirements for vaccines to attend public school. A state’s official legislative website should have those laws accessible to its citizens.

              Now you are going on about the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which was created due to the efforts of Barbara Loe Fisher. They even have a page where you can check the statistics:
              https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/statisticsreport.pdf

              Now, I will ask you to do a little math story problem. Remember to show your work. Look at the first table on that statistic report. Go to the very bottom to the line that says “Grand Total.” Get the total number of vaccine doses given for that time period (2,532,428,541 vaccines). Then divide that number by the total compensated claims (2310 compensations).

              What is the resulting number? What does it mean?

              Now look under the table, it has some definitions. Explain to us what “Settlement” means. Tell us how many of the compensated claims were “settlements.”

      • brad April 11, 2017 / 1:48 pm

        Well, i recall going through mumps, chicken pox, and measles – probably went through more too. In fact my entire family of 8 kids went through the same thing pretty much, and our class mates. That means multiple classrooms of the same grade from 1954 through the 1980s.
        Among those thousands of students in many classrooms whom we knew in school, town, church, etc – we personally never had any of our acquaintances die or become permanently injured by any of those diseases. We DID have a neighbor who got polio from the shot.
        As for the Offitt book – i can’t trust that guy. Vested interest in vaccines from his patent for rotavirus – and any putz that states an infant can take 10,000 vaccines in a day and remain healthy is not intelligent enough for me to believe in. That would be FIVE LITERS of toxic metals – aluminum and mercury, neurological and other toxic chemicals like polysorbate-80, MSG, formaldehyde and so much more, dog parts or chicken pieces, or monkey chunks – and the ever popular aborted fetus cell lines – AND PATHOGENS because lord knows you aren’t going to be healthy if you don’t inject in a totally unnatural method – pathogens directly into muscle tissues…

        So five liters won’t hurt an infant. Right. If you pretend an infant weighs 9 lbs (large for a baby) and you weigh 180 pounds – that means that the baby’s vaccine is equivalent to TWENTY into your body. Want to try that one? If the baby were 6 pounds it would be like your getting THIRTY shots…

        So – i wanted to catch mumps and them all over again so i’d get out of school. The disease WAS NO BIG DEAL to all of us at that time (1960+ for me) There is another consideration you may not be thinking about. i’ve waded through outbreak times at various locations in my later pile of decades – and NEVER gotten sick. These childhood diseases were not much of a threat – but WERE a much worse issue for older people and adults getting them. With vaccines NOT providing any immunity – you may become sick at an older age and have severe damages from that, while i never will. So all in all – i would again choose to suck it up, be mildly sick for a short time, and have PERMANENT, REAL IMMUNITY – the stuff that vaccines can only dream of.

        • MaGaO April 11, 2017 / 2:21 pm

          “Well, i recall going through mumps, chicken pox, and measles – probably went through more too. In fact my entire family of 8 kids went through the same thing pretty much, and our class mates. That means multiple classrooms of the same grade from 1954 through the 1980s.
          Among those thousands of students in many classrooms whom we knew in school, town, church, etc – we personally never had any of our acquaintances die or become permanently injured by any of those diseases.”
          As you wouldn’t: most kids die before they are 5 years old.
          ” We DID have a neighbor who got polio from the shot.”
          No you didn’t.
          “As for the Offitt book – i can’t trust that guy. Vested interest in vaccines from his patent for rotavirus – and any putz that states an infant can take 10,000 vaccines in a day and remain healthy is not intelligent enough for me to believe in. That would be FIVE LITERS of toxic metals –”
          No it wouldn’t: there are 5 litres of any combination of metals in 10000 vaccines.
          “aluminum”
          There is not aluminum: there is aluminum hydroxide which is quite a different matter.
          ” and mercury,”
          There is not mercury: at best (“thanks” to antivaxxers) there is ethylmercury, which is quite different.
          “neurological and other toxic chemicals like polysorbate-80,”
          Which is not toxic.
          ” MSG,”
          Which is not toxic.
          “formaldehyde”
          Which is not toxic at the rates used in vaccines, which is a normal by-product of metabolism, which is much more concentrated in an apple.
          “and so much more,”
          Which is probably as harmless as what you mentioned above.
          “dog parts or chicken pieces, or monkey chunks”
          False and irrelevant.
          “– and the ever popular aborted fetus cell lines –”
          False.
          ” AND PATHOGENS because lord knows you aren’t going to be healthy if you don’t inject in a totally unnatural method – pathogens directly into muscle tissues…”
          Pathogens are inactivated or torn down into components. Intramuscular injection minimizes side-effects.
          “So five liters won’t hurt an infant. Right. If you pretend an infant weighs 9 lbs (large for a baby) and you weigh 180 pounds – that means that the baby’s vaccine is equivalent to TWENTY into your body. Want to try that one? If the baby were 6 pounds it would be like your getting THIRTY shots…”
          Since I can’t trust what you think you understand about vaccine composition, I tend to think you don’t understand what the source said.
          “So – i wanted to catch mumps and them all over again so i’d get out of school.”
          When you did that you were a child. I don’t know what your excuse would be today.
          ” The disease WAS NO BIG DEAL to all of us at that time (1960+ for me)”
          You didn’t know better, thus you’re opinion doesn’t matter.
          “There is another consideration you may not be thinking about. i’ve waded through outbreak times at various locations in my later pile of decades – and NEVER gotten sick.”
          Behold the “works for me” fallacy. Consider yourself lucky.
          “These childhood diseases were not much of a threat – but WERE a much worse issue for older people and adults getting them.”
          Come back when you bother to read the death rates of these “mostly harmless” diseases.
          “With vaccines NOT providing any immunity – you may become sick at an older age and have severe damages from that, while i never will.”
          You have gone full retard. Never go full retard. Vaccines provide protection against pathogens they are designed against (unless that batch is faulty or the person is unable to generate immunity).
          “So all in all – i would again choose to suck it up, be mildly sick for a short time, and have PERMANENT, REAL IMMUNITY – the stuff that vaccines can only dream of.”
          And with a bit of bad luck you would end up deaf, in a comma or dead.

        • Notnearlyanonymous April 13, 2017 / 7:58 am

          Please explain the biochemistry of “real” immunity and how exactly the biochemistry differs from vaccine acquired immunity.

          • brad April 13, 2017 / 12:08 pm

            i was one of 8 kids in SW chicago. We went to school from 1954 through the mid 80s. Among the multiple classes, the thuousands of kids in towns, the church and school – we DID have a neighbor who got polio from the shot (think of that propaganda photo of all those kids in iron lungs – everyone of whom got the polio from the vaccine) but we knew of no kids who became sick from measles, mumps, or chicken pox that died or had permanent damage from the disease.

            We did know of people who had a rough time from scarlet fever (not vaccinated of course) and some smallpox difficulties – but again, all survived – and we know the smallpox vax made the disease case and damage/death rates totally shoot through the roof from the 1700s on until sanitation, hygiene, better nutrition and higher health levels stopped that.

            So – in our church – multiple families of many kids – probably averaging 4-6, but many families with up to 13 kids (first christian reformed church) Over 350 families. Associated with 4 other churches of similar and slightly larger size. The school itself which had multiple classes per grade level, and our friends in town – and we always discussed the diseases when they came around because we almost all wanted a break from school and liked the mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.

            So in all, my family knew tens of thousands of students peripherally – and we heard about people having rough times with the smallpox, etc – but not death or permanent damages.

            So people propose that not having that measles (whatever) is a good thing. But the vaccines are AT BEST a temporary help for SOME people. First off – about 4% to 10% of the people never even make antigens – so if that is your (flawed) measure of efficacy some are never protected. We find that most people getting sick in outbreaks are already vaccinated to NOT get the disease they just got. This indicates ineffective protection either in the product itself, or in the time of protection. This results in estimates of 40-60% of people not being protected by vaccines – who ARE vaccinated.

            Now – i got the wild diseases – and have REAL immunity – not fake vax stuff. People with vax protection are getting these diseases in later years where science tells us the diseases are more dangerous to your. Colleges rampant with mumps and vaccines doing LITERALLY NOTHING to stop that – even when some students are getting FOUR mumps vaccines. (Harvard and Missouri + elsewhere) i have gone to my kid’s schools and other locations where the diseases were again broken out – and guess what? i was never touched. i would MUCH prefer that over not having the minor inconvenience of getting measles etc – and having to worry about getting it later, PLUS having to detox all those poisonous metals and chemicals from my body – that were injected into my muscles in a totally unnatural manner which bypasses the immune system and makes actual immunity totally impossible on the biochemical level – restricting the response to the humoral level.

            Oh – hold on – nature DOES subcutaneous and intramuscular injections – bee stings, wasp stings, spider bites, Gila monster and viper bites, thorns (had honey locust go through tennis shoe and an inch into my arch – formed pus within less than 5 minutes and HURT, lol) and animal bites. Hmm – none considered to be beneficial to the immune system.

            • MaGaO April 13, 2017 / 1:20 pm

              Lots of unrelated testimony (not data, testimony) that do not answer Notnearlyanonymous’ request about your assertion on biochemistry.
              Par for the course.

              • brad April 14, 2017 / 5:39 pm

                Believe it or not, nobody did a study – peer reviewed or otherwise – of my family and our disease history and vaccinations/lack of vaccinations from 1954 – mid 80s. Shocking, i know. How damn inept of that Science person…

                The fact remains – i biochemically had mumps, measles, and chicken pox at the least – without having had a vaccine. This body survived – at least until it’s 62nd year so far – so the disease didn’t kill this body. Nor did it cause deafness – that was lightly done in the infantry playing bang-bang with other boys and noisy toys. Some light mid-range loss.

                The fact remains my siblings did not pass away or become disabled from vaccines.

                You don’t need a phukking study and biochemical treatise to notice (if one is intelligent) that the biochemical system called a body – and including my siblings – all performed biochemistry, some with all those listed diseases, some with less – and the result is as i stated in the prior comment.

                While i respect deeply the fact that both you and NNA have both GREATLY studied the vaccine issue many factors more than the medical professionals receive in med/nursing school – i pity your seeming total reliance upon others. Upon “approved experts”. In the 60s you would have been pointing out that most doctors smoked Camel Brand cigarettes and they relieved stress – and were healthy because of that.

                You can have any expert you want come in and tell me any story you want or they want. The fact remains that i have experience of living through a time when catching measles seemed more common than not catching it – and because it was such an innocuous disease in general – NOBODY i knew of was fearful of those childhood diseases – the very same ones that the vaxassination industry states is “one of the most infectious and deadly diseases” in the world. Bullshit.

                The industry that tells us that in 2017 we ARE going to have a measles pandemic and it’s going to kill a LOT of people. Bullshit. We have an unvaccinated (by industry/medical standards) adult population and have HAD an unvaccinated adult population for over 60 years – and where is this huge, epidemic that destroys everyone.

                Just calm down, take some vitamin A, and get over it. i did it when i was a little kid. Perhaps you or yours could also do so – and then you’d have to suffer with permanent immunity if you haven’t had the vaccines before. (raises interesting question – if one gets infected after their shots wore off – 2 to 10 years – can they get REAL immunity instead of the fake vax “protection” about 40% achieve???? Interesting thought – and i’d hope so for their sakes)

                • MaGaO April 14, 2017 / 5:54 pm


                  Believe it or not, nobody did a study – peer reviewed or otherwise – of my family and our disease history and vaccinations/lack of vaccinations from 1954 – mid 80s. Shocking, i know. How damn inept of that Science person…”
                  Why should anyone care about your anecdote?
                  “The fact remains – i biochemically had mumps, measles, and chicken pox at the least – without having had a vaccine. This body survived – at least until it’s 62nd year so far – so the disease didn’t kill this body. Nor did it cause deafness – that was lightly done in the infantry playing bang-bang with other boys and noisy toys. Some light mid-range loss.”
                  Because you were lucky. I know, it is humbling, but you are still alive and kicking because you were lucky. Before vaccines and antibiotics, about 1 child in every 4 died younger than 5 years old.
                  “The fact remains my siblings did not pass away or become disabled from vaccines.”
                  Congratulations: you are still an anecdote. And the plural of anecdote is not statistic.
                  “You don’t need a phukking study and biochemical treatise to notice (if one is intelligent) that the biochemical system called a body – and including my siblings – all performed biochemistry, some with all those listed diseases, some with less – and the result is as i stated in the prior comment.”
                  You seem you don’t need to be an expert in many things to notice something. Funnily, though, you actually need to be one to correctly understand what you are seeing. This is called Dunning-Kruger.
                  “While i respect deeply the fact that both you and NNA have both GREATLY studied the vaccine issue many factors more than the medical professionals receive in med/nursing school – i pity your seeming total reliance upon others.”
                  Save your pity for someone else. I’m scared that you keep talking your nonsense, possibly making people die because you know no better and you don’t want to know better. You lack biochemistry knowledge, you lack immunology knowledge. And yet you pontificate from your ignorance.
                  ” Upon “approved experts”. In the 60s you would have been pointing out that most doctors smoked Camel Brand cigarettes and they relieved stress – and were healthy because of that.”
                  No, I probably wouldn’t. If you cared to know about the issue you would know that the studies about the non-correlation of smoking and lung cancer were done on animals, not on humans. And, as it happens quite often, the results did not match what happens in humans. But this is another off-topic so I won’t chase this wild goose either.
                  “You can have any expert you want come in and tell me any story you want or they want.”
                  I know. You are certain that you are right and no evidence will change your mind. That is called faith, specially when you are completely wrong.
                  ” The fact remains that i have experience of living through a time when catching measles seemed more common than not catching it – and because it was such an innocuous disease in general – NOBODY i knew of was fearful of those childhood diseases – the very same ones that the vaxassination industry states is “one of the most infectious and deadly diseases” in the world. Bullshit.”
                  Buillshit is considering that your particular limited experience is somehow indicative of a general trend. Not only you lack knowledge about immunology or biochemistry, you also know the most basic knowledge about probability and statistics.
                  “The industry that tells us that in 2017 we ARE going to have a measles pandemic and it’s going to kill a LOT of people. Bullshit. We have an unvaccinated (by industry/medical standards) adult population and have HAD an unvaccinated adult population for over 60 years – and where is this huge, epidemic that destroys everyone”
                  Well, go to Romania: you might get your wish. In the real world people have manage to keep measles under control because vaccination rates were aroud or above 95%. See what is happening in Romania now. See what happened in the Netherlands: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24079377
                  “Just calm down, take some vitamin A, and get over it.”
                  Just read a fucking book, learn, and then you will start to understand the level of your ignorance and the danger of your nonsense.
                  ” i did it when i was a little kid. Perhaps you or yours could also do so – and then you’d have to suffer with permanent immunity if you haven’t had the vaccines before. (raises interesting question – if one gets infected after their shots wore off – 2 to 10 years – can they get REAL immunity instead of the fake vax “protection” about 40% achieve???? Interesting thought – and i’d hope so for their sakes)”
                  This happens: not all batches work correctly so, sometimes, vaccinated people will actually get the disease. There is also people (some of them even commented here) who are unable to get immunity from vaccination (their immune system does not react as usual).
                  The difference is that these people are protected by the rest of us who are immune to diseases, be it through vaccination or suffering the disease. Well, excepting conspiranoid people like you, maybe.

                  • allison wolf April 15, 2017 / 3:40 pm

                    “biochemical”

                    You keep using that word.
                    I do not think it means what you think it means.

                    😉

                    • brad April 17, 2017 / 9:37 am

                      biochemistry and biochemical (to lesser extent) used to refer to the chemistry OF THE BODY and how the naturally functioning chemicals worked. Phytochemicals interacting with your physiology, how for example insulin’s ONLY function is to get the glucose into the cell – then you need niacinamide to perform the next metabolic functions with that glucose (fake drug pusher niacin does nothing here) etc.

                      The tendency NOW is for biochemistry to be narrowly defined by the medical industry (controlled by drug companies) to be only pertinent to what the body does in reaction to the drug/chemical that is put into the body.

                    • allison wolf April 18, 2017 / 8:40 am

                      Proving my point in just a few sentences. Couldn’t keep yourself from traveling into conspiracy land by stopping at one sentence.

                • never confused by logic April 14, 2017 / 11:01 pm

                  And what do you think your unverfied claim of the 50 or 100 people in your family should mean to the sciences of epidemiology, infectious disease, and immunology, or to the public policy decisions?

                  Honestly, how do you think that claim about your family should be incorporated into the decisions that need to be made regarding 300 million, or 7 billion?

                  • brad April 15, 2017 / 8:41 am

                    To be brutally frank – the experience and REALITY that i and unknown thousands of my generation lived through (mostly innocuous diseases whose passage conferred REAL immunity and reduce the risk of damage you vaccinated have later in life) leaves me totally uncaring about what epidemiologists say. This is a personal confrontation with a disease, and your personal biochemistry will handle it in the best way you can. Unless you vaccinate and thus short circuit the immune system with all the poisons and garbage, unnaturally injected into a body in dangerous ways.

                    i guess one point i’ve not made is that neither you nor any other person on this planet has the right to make my health choices for me. This is my biochemistry of which you and everyone else is TOTALLY IGNORANT and thus the most well – meaning intent on someone’s part may cause me damage that was not intended.

                    This is also the world’s legal standpoint. It is against all Geneva Convention and UN rulings to impose medical treatments upon ANY person without fully informed consent of the recipient – and that even includes life-saving treatments. According to International law – THIS is the legal reality the JABBER crowd wants to kill off. My state constitution – California also states that under patient’s rights that any medical provider MUST provide full medical disclosure to anyone requesting it, then provide information assimilation time, and the patient STILL has the right to refuse ANY medical procedure – regardless of how “good” the procedure is determined to be.

                    The US Constitution states that the federal govt has ONLY thirty legitimate arenas in which it has legitimate authority. These are the 30 Enumerated powers – and NO federal govt branch has any authority over making ANY health decisions for me. Period.

                    When you understand hierarchy of law -the SUPREME law of the land in the US is the US Constitution. Nobody – Congress, the Supreme Court, the President, no agency, no bureaucratic moron shuffling papers at DOJ or the EPA – has ANY authority to change constitutional law – and the guys who WROTE the constitution – AND who organized the functions and knew the limits of the fed govt state clearly that any law that goes against the constitution is “imaginary” and “pretended” law. In other words it is legally invalid, null, and void. The founding fathers further state that we have the right to disobey any such law without consequence AND Thomas Jefferson went so far as to state it is our DUTY to disobey any such non-compliant law.

                    The highest law in each state is our state constitution – and since my state states clearly that i get to refuse ANY medical treatment at all – regardless of anyone’s opinions on the matter – SB277 is not a valid law since the legislators have LESS authority regarding law than the constitution does. They have NO authority to over-rule the constitution. That they have succeeded is due only to the sheep-like compliance of idiot general populace, and the big stick they whack us with – for most stealing the child for non-compliance and denying them the (constitutionally granted) schooling of their children.

                    “SOCIETY” is a fiction. There is no person called society. This is a fictitious entity. On the other hand, i have a genuine human body, as do you. To state that i must damage my human body for a pretended “being” which is a mere mental construct is a form of insanity. And if you look, every time that something must be done “for society” – there are rich people behind that move and they WILL be getting richer off of your compliance and support of that program.

                    • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 9:09 am

                      “To be brutally frank – the experience and REALITY”
                      To be brutally frank, you are an anecdote. An unreliable one at that, as I have explained earlier. If you were even a little bit interested in checking your bias you would check your location cemeteries.
                      ” that i and unknown thousands of my generation lived through (mostly innocuous diseases whose passage conferred REAL immunity and reduce the risk of damage you vaccinated have later in life) leaves me totally uncaring about what epidemiologists say.”
                      This is not your ignorance speaking any more, unfortunately. You have decided that your certainty is the truth. You are wrong.
                      “This is a personal confrontation with a disease, and your personal biochemistry will handle it in the best way you can.”
                      Up to and including your death.
                      “Unless you vaccinate and thus short circuit the immune system with all the poisons and garbage, unnaturally injected into a body in dangerous ways.”
                      This paragraph is garbage, sorry. You have shown repeatedly that you have no clue about what you are talking about, relying only in a souped-up version of “worksforme”.
                      “i guess one point i’ve not made is that neither you nor any other person on this planet has the right to make my health choices for me.”
                      Actually we do, if you become a persistent danger to other people’s health. See Typhoid Mary for more information.
                      “This is my biochemistry of which you and everyone else is TOTALLY IGNORANT”
                      Actually it is the reverse: lots of people know about your biochemistry much more than you do (which is basically nothing). And you refuse to acknowledge that because it stops you from being special. Reality check: you are not special. Learn to live with it.
                      “and thus the most well – meaning intent on someone’s part may cause me damage that was not intended.”
                      Life is not safe. Vaccines are safer than diseases they protect against. You can whine, you can sing out loud, you can plug your ears. Reality won’t change.
                      I was going to answer to your pseudolegal rant but I have found it to do worthless that I won’t waste the time.
                      Just an advice: if you are going to talk about Geneva Conventions, UN decisions or what the federal administration can do or will do, try to learn about it because you are so off the mark it is not even funny. And it is offtopic again. But, hey, you are offtopic half of the time.

                    • brad April 15, 2017 / 10:08 am

                      And WHERE in these cemeteries is it pecked into the tombstones “died from measles, died from measles, died from chicken pox…” etc? Nowhere – duh.
                      My biochemistry. Oh – so you know that i’m basically allergic to alcohol? I can’t even take alcohol based infusions because they damage my salivary glands. Can’t drink alcohol at all. In the army took 2 Darvons (lightweight pain killer not allowed by FDA at that time) and hallucinated. i know the effects of my body from varying things – and i can tell you that no doctor does.

                      You want to pretend that my humoral response to a vaccine is a known and safe thing, but that is EXACTLY why it is biochemically impossible for you to have REAL IMMUNITY (not that fake, temporary protection crap you are stuck with as a JABBER) not to mention the impossibility of developing herd immunity from that.

                      Go ahead. Pretend i don’t know anything about probiotics or how the NATURAL immune system is designed to function. (hint – not from intramuscular injections) When you vaccinate the body does it’s best to compensate, but cannot completely fix the problems you cause with every vaccine injected. Even the baseline assumption that to put in poisonous chemicals, toxic metals (and heavy metals on occasion) PATHOGENS, and genetic material proven to be able to mutate (mutagenesis) with our OWN DNA – with a likely/possible outcome of autoimmune disorders as the bad genetics is then attacked – right – i know nothing about that sort of stuff. Probiotics and intestinal flora? Never heard of it.

                      Messenger molecules regulating cell health? How could i possibly know that 30% of them come from soil microbial probiotics and many of them hitchhike on your macrophages to take residence INSIDE YOUR BRAIN!!! Nope – couldn’t know anything like that. i’ll leave that to the doctors. But wait a minute – 95% of MDs have no training in biochemistry or nutrition in med school – so they are the last people to ask about this.

                      You can play all the headstone science you want – there is no scientific validity to your assertions either – but your type tend to reject any link i may provide and state the source is contaminated – but you blindly and stupidly take the word of proven murderous corporations about the safety of their products despite the fact that their products have been used to kill tens of thousands of people FOR PROFITS (think Vioxx here) and you TRUST these people with a proven profit motive, a proven willingness to KILL (murder) for profits, and lie about shit all the time. And i want to be cautious with my body – don’t give a doodie if YOU vaccinate – go for it – and get slammed for it.

                      There are other points out there. Things like NO study has proven the safety of virtually any ingredient of most of what is put in vaccines. The original thimerosal studies killed people that were given it, but it was covered up and labeled safe for inclusion. Note: vaccine lines, according to virologists working in them in the USA, are disinfected with thimerosal as part of the sanitation procedures – so you get trace amounts that are not legally mandated to be on the label listing – in virtually every vaccine. And what does the EPA state about mercury? That for both types – the safe level for humans is zero. Where is the study proving Polysorbate 80 is safe? Aluminum IN THE FORM USED IN VACCINES AND NOT TAKEN ORALLY (the “safety” of vaccine aluminum is stolen from oral usage of a different form of aluminum) Where is the safety study on MSG? On the genetics, SV-40? onandonandonandon.

                      Legality – the courts can pretend whatever they want – international law states that depriving one of informed consent – which includes the lying that MDs and nurses are TRAINED to engage in so that parents can be coerced into vaxassinating their kids – is legally assault and battery.

                      International law mandates that there must be informed consent – and in my state it expressly states FULL MEDICAL DISCLOSURE FOR ANY MEDICAL PROCEDURE whatsoever. The paragraph following that on my state constitutional rights declares that REGARDLESS of how “good” any procedure is decided to be – we ALWAYS have the right to refuse ANY medical procedure.

                      Typhoid Mary – the law allows CONSTRAINMENT AND ISOLATION – not the forced injection of toxins in violation of all human and constitutional rights. To equate vaccines with isolation is logically retarded on at least two counts. 1) blatantly different actions and 2) When Harvard and that college in Missouri had mumps outbreaks the fools pushed up to FOUR MUMPS VACCINES on these guinea pigs with ZERO effect on the course of the outbreak. It was not until the sick people were ISOLATED that things calmed down on the infectiousness side of things. So – the vaccines DID NOT WORK AT ALL here, and isolation did. Isolation effective and legal – vaccination not effective at all in this case – and depending on personal choices may constitute assault and battery for those injecting – even if they have permission – if that permission was granted under false statements regarding that vaccine.

                      Going to feed my animals.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:44 am

                      “And WHERE in these cemeteries is it pecked into the tombstones “died from measles, died from measles, died from chicken pox…” etc? ”

                      I’ve gone to many cemeteries where there are clusters of tombstones of children under 5, all from the same year, that correlate to recorded outbreaks that I can look up on my smart phone while staring at the graves and imagining the parents’ grief.

                      What’s your source for the claim that it didn’t happen?

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:50 am

                      “it is biochemically impossible for you to have REAL IMMUNITY (not that fake, temporary protection crap you are stuck with as a JABBER) not to mention the impossibility of developing herd immunity from that.”

                      You’ve been asked before to explain what you think is the science behind such a comment.
                      You didn’t answer then and I predict you wont’ answer now.
                      You mention biochemistry. Please explain to us the detailed biochemistry of that claim and provide the primary sources (original research) or texbooks (not blogs, not someone’s ego-published diatribe, but textbooks edited by professionals and reviewed by professionals) for the biochemistry you will be explaining.

                      You keep saying the words biochemistry and biochemical, so you must have your explanation and the sources at your fingertips.

                      Ready? GO!

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:54 am

                      “thimerosal as part of the sanitation procedures – so you get trace amounts that are not legally mandated to be on the label listing – in virtually every vaccine.”

                      Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years) for that claim.
                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:57 am

                      “When you vaccinate the body does it’s best to compensate, but cannot completely fix the problems you cause with every vaccine injected”

                      Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years) for that claim.
                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:00 pm

                      “In the army took 2 Darvons (lightweight pain killer not allowed by FDA at that time) and hallucinated. i know the effects of my body from varying things – and i can tell you that no doctor does.”

                      I also hallucinate on medicines of that type. Many people do. It’s a known thing.
                      What in the world do you imagine that has to do with this topic?

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:02 pm

                      “95% of MDs have no training in biochemistry or nutrition ”

                      That, sir, is a flat-out lie which can be contradicted by looking the prerequisties and the course schedule for any medical school in the country.

                      But you never looked. That’s a talking point of the anti-vaxx crowd that none of them have ever bothered to look up.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:05 pm

                      Claiming that vaccines are “genetic material proven to be able to mutate (mutagenesis) with our OWN DNA”

                      A) all caps only shows that you know your argument is weak so you pretend to yell it over the interwebs

                      B) Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years) for that claim.
                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:07 pm

                      ” autoimmune disorders as the bad genetics is then attacked” (by vaccine antigens).

                      Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years) for that claim.
                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:10 pm

                      “but your type tend to reject any link i may provide”

                      Go ahead.
                      You’ve had dozens of opportunities to do so – but you don’t provide any links to original sources, do you?

                      Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years, or in the form of professionally edited textbooks and not ego-published diatribes) for your claims.

                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:13 pm

                      “Messenger molecules regulating cell health? How could i possibly know that 30% of them come from soil microbial probiotics and many of them hitchhike on your macrophages to take residence INSIDE YOUR BRAIN!!! ”

                      A) all caps only means you know your statement is weak and needs to be shouted

                      B) Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years), or professionally edited, university-level textbooks from within the last 10 years, for that claim.

                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:18 pm

                      ” the lying that MDs and nurses are TRAINED to engage in so that parents can be coerced into vaxassinating their kid”

                      Please provide the source for that claim, and hopefully it’s something other than 5-10 personal anecdotes over the past 30 years. Then explain why the science of immunology is explained the same way to doctors and nurses in every country, including those where no one could possibly claim they are beholden to US government or US corporations.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:19 pm

                      “International law mandates that there must be informed consent ”

                      You might be right about that one. I don’t know, but I’d like to know.
                      Please provide the original source for that claim

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:25 pm

                      “we ALWAYS have the right to refuse ANY medical procedure.”

                      Of course you do. No has even proposed otherwise.
                      But if you want (A), sometimes you have to agree to (B).
                      That doesn’t take away your right to refuse, but it does force you to make a choice.

                      If you want to refuse a TSA pat-down, you must choose not to go to the airport.
                      No one is making you go to the airport. But if you do, you are agreeing to search of your belongings and your person. Don’t want a search? Fine, don’t go to the airport.

                      Don’t want to have to show your license and registration and proof of insurance? Fine.
                      Don’t drive a car.

                      Don’t want to have to show a passport? Fine.
                      Don’t leave the country and plan to come back in.

                      Why do people pretend that making a choice is the same as taking away a right?

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:28 pm

                      “forced injection of toxins in violation of all human and constitutional rights.”

                      See, that’s the lie about vaccines and rights.
                      No one in the US is being forced to get vaccines. No one.
                      Please show me the evidence for one case of US government officials going to someone’s home, busting down the door, and holding them down in order to give a forced vaccine.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:30 pm

                      “When Harvard and that college in Missouri had mumps outbreaks …the vaccines DID NOT WORK AT ALL”

                      Provide the original sources (in the form of PubMed indexed, relevant highly-regarded, peer reviewed scientific journal published research within the last 20 years), or professionally edited, university-level textbooks from within the last 10 years, for that claim.

                      You want everyone to be able to know the same things you know, right?
                      So provide the sources for your claim so that everyone can read it for themselves.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 12:32 pm

                      “Isolation: effective and legal ”

                      Oh, good. You agree with not letting children into public school without demonstrating immunity through either vaccination or titre testing.
                      I’m glad we agree on that.

                    • Jack Spratt April 15, 2017 / 1:16 pm

                      What we just experienced from brad is known as a Gish Gallop: a listing of so many unverfied claims that the opponent is unlikely to be able to address them all, leaving some readers to wonder if the claims that wern’t debunked might be true.

                      To address a Gish Gallop takes a lot of time and effort, time that often isn’t available in a spoken conversation. Even in print, it can require lots of effort.

                      However, in this case, you’ll notice that all one has to do in order to demonstrate that brad isn’t providing information, but a series of unverifiable claims (and a few outright lies) is to ask him for the original resources for those claims. Of course, he won’t provide them because they don’t exist.

                      If he attempts to verify his claims at all (which is, frankly, doubtful) , it will be to reference blogs and frauds (on the level of Mercola and David Guacamole Wolf and Andrew Wakefield), but never any original research or university level textbooks, and he won’t be able to explain how those outside of his proposed conspiracy, those in countries that are enemies of the US and US corporations, provide/teach/use the same science that immunology researchers do in this country.

                      And, most telling, he won’t have ever looked for evidence that contradicts his conspiracy theory because he doesn’t believe it could possibly exist because he’s closed his mind to that very possibility.

                    • brad April 17, 2017 / 10:31 am

                      So make it easy on yourself. You assert that my life experience – ie – no dead siblings/friends/schoolmates is a lie. Wrong. You say that this is proven in the local cemeteries.

                      So just one question for you to answer: HOW DO THE CEMETERIES TELL YOU THE PROPORTION OF BODIES IN THE GROUND THERE WERE KILLED BY INFECTIOUS DISEASES?

                      It doesn’t, you can’t prove it, but you assert that i’m wrong and a stupid and totally non-scientific assertion out in woo-woo-land like headstones to measure infectious disease rates is more realistic than my noting that my siblings were not damaged or killed by disease.

                      Hmmm. And i’m the sketchy one…

                    • cleverlyconfused April 18, 2017 / 8:23 am

                      Wow.
                      Obviously didn’t even read the comment to which he’s responding, with that most convincing of anti-science troll techniques, ALL CAPS.

                    • Who's Your Daddy April 15, 2017 / 12:55 pm

                      “totally uncaring about what epidemiologists say. ”

                      Of course you don’t care what the facts are.
                      You’ve make that abundantly clear.

                      No amount of information, from any source whatsoever, could change your mind.
                      You know what that means about whether anyone should listen to you, right?
                      Why would anyone ever listen to a conspiracy theorist who openly admits that his mind is completely and utterly closed?

                      Well, Ted Kaczinsky would listen to you, I’m sure.

                    • Who's Your Daddy April 15, 2017 / 1:15 pm

                      When we use the term “society,” the rest of us mean, “Us, all of us, including you.”

                      But now that you’ve explained your utterly narcissistic view of your place in this world,
                      explain to us why any of us should care what you think, what you say, or even if harm comes to you through our group decision-making process
                      .
                      If we use your same narcissistic reasoning, we should not care in the least, and we should actually rejoice, if we get the slightest benefit even it causes great harm to you.

                      So, yes, please explain how you imagine that the rest of us would/should care about harm or benefit to us – using your narcissistic reasoning.

                    • brad April 17, 2017 / 10:47 am

                      From reading Henry David Thoreau on my own in 6th grade: “I would not speak so much about myself were there anyone else whom i knew so well. Unfortunately, i am confined to this theme by the narrowness of my experience.” Walden

                      My viewpoint is NOT narcissistic. Our bodies are very unique biochemical structures and not close to identical. You can probably drink – not advisable for me. i’ve a very high pain tolerance and have had live nerves drilled on when a cavity fell out – without ANY anaesthesia at all. i know that many can’t do that. i’m thin with Marfan Syndrome – you may not be, etc. When you have a room of people gathered – none of them look alike – and even if you had identical twins there there would be differences. Their medical histories would vary, etc -and that’s probably the CLOSEST to identical systems you are likely to find.

                      So – when you pretend that vaccines can cause “herd immunity” so i need to suck it up and get myself poisoned for the rest of you – wrong. My individual bodily reactions will not help you. Disease transmittance – like virtually everything in life – has benefits and drawbacks. Nature did it right – vaccines do it wrong. Then of course – the pertussis goes in the exact OPPOSITE direction in that it is proven to produce many asymptomatic carriers which are increasing the whooping cough outbreaks. The toxoids used now cause less symptoms than the original live virus vaccines – probably good – but they do NOT protect against parapertussis as used to happen, and furthermore – when one gets that vaccine they become up to 40 X more reactive to the pertussis or parapertussis when they are exposed. Making it more dangerous – again – disease MORE dangerous because of pathogen adaptation…

                      So in the case of pertussis, we’re basically being told – take it to protect YOU, even though it’s going to make more people sick from taking that vaccine.

                      So which one is it? Are we protecting a mythical “society”? That is a CONCEPT – not a physical entity. The physical entity is you and i and others. THOSE individual entities vary immensely. So stating that one size fits all, all the time – is scientifically RETARDED. You give the same injection to a 9 pound infant you give to a 117 pound woman or child – so the infant in relative terms has taken twelve vaccines – but that’s okay with you – one size fits all. We now have studies indicating that mitochondrial dysfunction are likely a causative factor in ASD issues. Do you test for mitochondrial dysfunction? No – damn the person and family that get damaged “I” (!!!!!!) demand you sacrifice yourself and your life and health so that “I” (!!!!!!) can be (imaginarily) safer. That’s your attitude.

                      Never mind that mitochondrial dysfunction is proven to be caused by glyphosate and that every animal and every human in the US ever tested for glyphosate in them HAS glyphosate in them. Never mind that this makes mitochondrial dysfunction a total guesswork BECAUSE NO TESTING IS DONE PRIOR TO VAXASSINATION! Get your shot and THEN figure out if you’ll be heavily damaged. Crapshoot – not science.

                    • Jack Spratt April 18, 2017 / 8:19 am

                      You say your stance is not narcissistic, and then explain yourself in a narcissistic scree that demonstrates that you only care about you and that you would never do a thing to put yourself in the way of even the tiniest of possible harms to help protect babies, and the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems.

                      You’ve been asked before what sort of information you would require in order to change your mind.
                      You ignored that question because, as we all know by now, you have no interest in finding out if you might be wrong. You can’t conceive of being wrong about a subject you have not studied and won’t bother to do so. It wouldn’t matter. Your mind is closed on the subject, and no additional information could pierce it because you don’t want any. You yell about the science and then claim that it’s not science because it does not treat you as a sufficiently special snowflake and advertise all your wonderful differences to the world in order to satisfy your ego.

                      250 years of enormously successful immunology research must stop and thousands more must needlessly die because cute little brad wants to show off.
                      Well, I, for one, am done.
                      If brad were to return with a single PubMed indexed recent article in a highly regarded, relevant, peer reviewed medical journal showing that any vaccination, or combination or series, on the current US pediatric vaccine schedule is more likely to cause serious harm to the individual than it is likely to prevent serious harm from the illness for which its intended to protect, then I would listen again.
                      But he’s been asked for such evidence regarding his claims, and he never provides it. Never. So I won’t hold my breath.

                      I believe I’m done feeding the troll.

                    • brad April 18, 2017 / 10:49 am

                      You contend that i am being narcissistic. This is because you still believe in the myth of herd immunity. Vaccine induced herd immunity. This has never happened. Since i know that my getting a shot is not going to help someone over somewhere else – i am not endangering them in my mind, and there is no connection btwn taking care of this body as best as possible and other people’s infectious disease threats.

                      Look at Smallpox.

                      Everywhere they made smallpox mandatory, everywhere they vaccinated – the smallpox disease, infection, and outbreak rates shot up like crazy. Where there was no smallpox vaccine – the disease remained a threat (especially in crowded, unsanitary urban conditions with pathogen laden chamber pots thrown into streets, etc) but in similar rates that existed prior to the vaccine. In other words – before the vaccine – no two year cycle of smallpox deaths (that’s how britain measured the disease) had even 2,000 deaths. AFTER vaccination – outbreaks in the 1850s (mandatory jabbing 1857) had 14,000 dead/cycle. Then outbreaks eventually reached over 44,000/cycle. That is a rate of death twenty two times greater – at least.

                      So you likely don’t want to believe the association, so look at Leicester – (Lester in pronounciation) which during mandatory vaccination had 95% compliance and some of the most horrible death and disease rates. The PEOPLE recognized that the vaccination was causing most of the problem and 80,000 marched on town hall and demanded cessation of mandatory vaccination. When people then got smallpox they did the most effective thing. Immediately and totally quarantining the infected – and they used people who’d been infected and acquired immunity (real immunity) to treat the diseased. The problem went away. EVERY city/town that continued the vaccination continued to have the same high rates of disease, infection, and death. Only Leicester and it’s refusal to do the same had their rates drop to very low levels – although 5% of people still chose to vaccinate and the pool of disease was kept alive that way.

                      When plumbing came into common use and the disease vectors were reduced, the smallpox death rates (and infection, blah) the smallpox virtually went away. No more having servants cleaning out and emptying chamber pots. No more sewage thrown out windows into alleyways. No more cross-contamination to that degree. So much improvement was found that Britain stopped Smallpox vaccination mandates in 1907. There was no herd immunity from the vaccines.

                      Polio and IT’S lies. The first polio outbreaks were related to the Gypsy Moth. An amateur entomologist in New Jersey had netted his backyard as an insectary, and brought in some gypsy moths from abroad. No natural predators or controls. Local birds pecked holes in his netting (late 1800s here) for their dining entertainment. The moths escaped and bred. And bred. And bred.

                      Within a few years, apple orchards in particular were being so defoliated that people feared the extinction of all apples in New England – and without controls they had to use the pesticides of the day. None of which worked. The most common were lead, or arsenic. Someone found out that when you combined BOTH lead and arsenic – this spray would work against the moths. i suspect you can see a couple of problems here…

                      What i hadn’t seen coming was that in the 1800s and early 1900s – every outbreak of polio, and i mean every polio epidemic – took place EXACTLY WHERE, and EXACTLY WHEN the spraying took place. This is one reason that people remarked on the seasonality of the outbreaks – a well known phenomenon. In later years, the polio enterococcus seems to have formed a symbiotic but nasty relationship with DDT – a known neurotoxin. (note – the symptoms for arsenic poisoning pretty much exactly are symptoms of polio…) It is thought that the polio enterococcus was common to the human biome for thousands of years – so why did it start happening with the combination of DDT? Well, we know that if the enterococcus enters open nerves – it migrates up those nerves to a ganglion region near the base of the skull/neck where it seems to settle in and inflame the myelin sheathing. (poliomyelitis – polio=gray, myelitis=inflamation of the gray myelin sheathing) This can cause permanent or temporary neurological disorders, of course.

                      The great majority of people who developed polio were people who’d had tonsillectomies. When i grew up, these were so common you can’t believe it. Cut open the tonsils – nerve access for your enterococcus to enter. Tonsils – the only organ in the human body that can make antigens to polio. Hmmm.

                      So another problem – while the polio was decreasing in the 50s, the definition/diagnosis was basically – paralysis in 2 or more muscle groups for two or more DAYS. Why? Because you could take a sampling of 1,000 pre-vaccine polio-victims, people who met this criterion and were thus “victims of polio” – and you’d find that 999 out of that one thousand would heal theirselves within a few days to a few weeks. So in essence, the unfortunate damaged and dead polio victims were literally one in a thousand on average.

                      Enter the polio vaccine – and a change in diagnostic criterion. Now – poliomyelitis was diagnosed as paralysys in two or more muscle groups for two MONTHS! Notice how the “accidental” re-defining of the disease eliminated (ONLY in definition) 99.9% of the polio victims of the day before! Don’t we just LOVE magic? Thus, the drastic decline in polio cases from vaccination was literally and ONLY a statistical manipulation of dishonesty. In reality? The polio vaccine caused more polio.

                      Provinces in Canada – at least two of them – almost doubled their paralysis and death rates for polio when the vaccine came out. States in the United States which had NEVER had a single case of polio now had them, plenty of them. The picture used by the “vaccinate or polio will put your kids in an iron lung” crowd ironically use a picture in which every polio victim there was put there by the polio vaccine. It’s called the Cutter Incident.

                      Even today – that whack job Gates and his new polio vaccine are causing much damage. His tricking people in India to get that vaccine killed 47,500 people. The new vaccine caused MUCH higher rates of symptoms, infection, and death than the wild polio virus ever did – and note here – this is one of the few regions in the world where you can go to the town market stalls, but a couple pounds of DDT in a paper bag – and take it home and use it without instructions, however you think you should. Again – the neurological/polio link is maintained where we find polio…

                      So Billy Boy claims that he has “eradicated” wild polio in India. But he’s replaced it with something much worse. i see that like my fixing your migraine by giving you pancreatic cancer. You will definitely have a lifetime with less migraines, lol.

                      So you see – i don’t do this self-maintenance, this lack of personal sacrifice out of selfishness. i do it because A) if i don’t help myself enough to basically maintain – i can help nobody else. B) My vaccination choices in reality do not endanger you or yours, i promise. Hell – if you look at all closely, you’ll notice that the vast majority of people that are caught in infectious disease outbreaks are vaccinated. Now how could this be if vaccines were “effective”? It couldn’t. So i have my permanent immunity for most childhood diseases – not smallpox i guess. Not scarlet fever i think. My protection is far superior to your vaccine protection in this regard – so i don’t endanger you or anyone on that point.

                      The other diseases? Well, there is lots of evidence that the Pertussis vaccines increase the dangers (mutation of pertussis and new prevalence of parapertussis in infections – NOT protected by the vaccines) of disease outbreaks as you vaccinated actually become asymptomatic carriers. Usually. The advantage for others when you DO show symptoms is that then you are KNOWN to be carrying the pathogens and can keep away from babies and other immune compromised. Hell – just stay from everyone at that time, lol

                      Flu – look at the vaccine insert for Flulaval for instance. It states that not only has there been no study proving it to be safe for fetuses, pregnant women, breastfeeding infants, or infants – it also states ON THEIR OWN VACCINE INSERT that no studies show it to reduce your chances of catching the influenza virus. In other words – take the flu shot to prevent the flu even though it doesn’t prevent the flu….

                      You get the gist i’m sure – you certainly aren’t stupid.

                    • Cleverlyconfused April 18, 2017 / 3:09 pm

                      Nope. That’s not the reason people have concluded that you’re narcissistic, but thanks for playing.

                    • Richard Daggett April 18, 2017 / 7:10 pm

                      I posted a few days ago about the futility of responding to posts by “brad”. But, here I am, responding to one of his posts. His rant about polio and DDT mandates a response. “brad” must be watching too many videos posted on YouTube by Sherri Tenpenny and by Suzanne Humphries; both very vocal anti vaccination quacks.

                      First “brad” writes that, “polio was decreasing in the 50s.” Wrong! In 1953, the year I contracted polio, there were approximately 32,000 documented cases of polio in the United States and more American children died from polio than from any other communicable disease. The year before there were more than 58,000 documented cases of polio in the United States; the largest number ever! The number of polio cases was increasing, and the severity of cases was increasing.

                      Next “brad” writes, “The picture used by the ‘vaccinate or polio will put your kids in an iron lung’ crowd ironically uses a picture in which every polio victim there was put there by the polio vaccine. It’s called the Cutter Incident.” Well, “brad”, you are either grossly misinformed, or you are trying to make a point by purposely presenting false information!

                      The photograph you mentioned was taken in 1953 at Rancho Los Amigos Hospital in Los Angeles County! I was there! The Salk polio vaccine was not used publically until April 1955, two years later, and the Cutter Laboratory’s debacle followed soon after. In any case, the fault was Cutter Laboratory’s … not the vaccine! The photograph you referenced was taken long before the “Cutter Incident”!

        • Gewisn April 13, 2017 / 8:05 am

          Brad, perhaps if you’d tell us where you grew up we can provide for you some morbidity and mortality statistics for preventable diseases over the last years that might demonstrate that you were quite lucky to have been born into you town during the age of vaccines.

  2. Anonymous November 24, 2016 / 2:55 pm

    There are many advances in medicine today, one of them being vaccinations. There are many parents who do not vaccinate their children due to many controversies going around about the horrible side effects and vaccinations not working. Before vaccinations, many individuals died do to deadly diseases that could not be cured. Vaccinations came into place and have saved millions of lives all around the world with immunizations. Although there may be mild reactions to vaccines, the benefits outweigh the risks 100%. Vaccinating children help the child not receive a deadly disease, help the community and other individuals who may not be able to receive vaccinations. The risks and effects of getting a disease are far more extensive and deadly than receiving a vaccine to help cure it. Vaccinations protect children and are helping protect future generations as well.

    -Maja Velasquez

  3. Maja Velasquez November 24, 2016 / 2:57 pm

    There are many advances in medicine today, one of them being vaccinations. There are many parents who do not vaccinate their children due to many controversies going around about the horrible side effects and vaccinations not working. Before vaccinations, many individuals died do to deadly diseases that could not be cured. Vaccinations came into place and have saved millions of lives all around the world with immunizations. Although there may be mild reactions to vaccines, the benefits outweigh the risks 100%. Vaccinating children help the child not receive a deadly disease, help the community and other individuals who may not be able to receive vaccinations. The risks and effects of getting a disease are far more extensive and deadly than receiving a vaccine to help cure it. Vaccinations protect children and are helping protect future generations as well.

    • Patrick McDonald December 1, 2016 / 7:47 pm

      We shoud all get vaccinated.

    • brad April 11, 2017 / 1:59 pm

      Wrong. i got measles, mumps, chicken pox and likely more growing up, and in my family of 8 kids we all pretty much did. We all pretty much enjoyed getting off of school and had zero worries about permanent damage or dying. It wasn’t even on the horizon – and with the multiple thousands of co-students we went through school with – from 1954-mid 80s – nobody died or was permanently injured from those diseases in any of our school, town, or church groups. Tens of thousands. Yes it has happened, but the disease is basically pretty woosy-poofy. NOT a big deal.

      Then you have over $3,000,000,000 paid out in a very antagonistic system for PROVEN vaccine damages and death. Among them for example – there are 83 cases in which “neurological damages including autism” were caused by the vaccines – so SHUT UP about “no autism” from vaccines and stop ignoring the obvious signs behind those lies. (Former TDaP vaccine – now marketed elsewhere listing autism as a possible adverse reaction following that shot. The CDC whistleblower, the fact that listed neurological side effects including meningitis can easily include autism or ASD, and more)

      That system pays out more $$$ for awards against the flu shots – which DON’T WORK!!!

      Look at the insert for Flulaval – it states that there are no studies proving it is safe for pregnant women, no studies proving it safe for fetuses, no studies proving safety for infants or nursing mothers. Of course the coup de’ grace would have to be that no studies show that it will reduce your risk of CATCHING INFLUENZA!!!! So – how worthless (and damaging) can a shot be? Apparently, pretty worthless from the health standpoint.

      Then when you figure that if you get a multi-dose shot you get acknowledged mercury – which the EPA lists as having a safe level in humans of ZERO – and that’s for either ethyl or methyl mercury.

      So you get a multidose shot – at 2 parts per billion (ppb) you exceed safe levels. At 20ppb, you are having your myelin sheathing get destroyed around your nerves and are getting proven, photographed nerve damage. At 200 ppb – you need to dispose of this in a Level III toxic waste dump – but YOU are the toxic waste dump, since you are taking in 2,000 ppb of mercury in that multi-dose shot…

      So tell me about how wonderful they are. Don’t you even wonder how you can give your kids so many “proven health” practices – and have the sickest kids in the world?

      • Notnearlyanonymous April 13, 2017 / 8:10 am

        “Don’t you even wonder how you can give your kids so many “proven health” practices – and have the sickest kids in the world?”

        No. I don’t know.
        Please explain that on the level of the biochemistry and provide the PubMed indexed citations in highly regarded relevant journals which demonstrate each of your points – the way that Dr Raff did for you.

  4. Mariaan February 5, 2017 / 5:59 am

    My child has been diagnosed with autism. He was very sick since 6 weeks of age (one of the symptoms of autism is low immunity), so we were always behind on his vaccinations programme. He is luckily up to date now, but he has been showing signs of autism before his vaccinations, not after. Because of his natural lower immunity, he needs the extra protection even more than a child with a natural high immunity. And he was drinking breast milk….

    • MaGaO February 5, 2017 / 9:13 am

      Unfortunately milk antibodies only work in babies six months old or less, approximately.

    • j0bro February 6, 2017 / 4:35 pm

      Just a small nuance: there seems to be a correlation between autism and a less effective immune system. That doesn’t imply that it is a symptom. It might be that the hereditary material causing autism can be linked to the same as for the immunity deficit, but it goes too far to say they are directly linked.

      The same can be said for the relation between ice cream sales and shark attacks during the summer. They may seem to coincide most of the times, but are in no way linked 😉

    • brad April 11, 2017 / 2:12 pm

      Magao is wrong – breast milk can protect much longer than 6 months, and if YOU aren’t vaccinated but got the wild disease – those antibodies have been shown to protect up to generally about 2 years of age, but some have had protection up to 10 years.

      If you had vaccines you cannot transfer your antigens (i refuse to say immunity since vaccines NEVER give immunity on any level – biochemical impossibility) to protect your child.

      If you were sick and used any acetaminophen there is also an autism link to that. When (80s) the circumcision group started using acetaminophen as their painkiller of choice in the males – that male population IMMEDIATELY had an increase in autism rates. The two years in which Tylenol was contaminated had acetaminophen sales drops – and those are the ONLY two years in which autism rates have dropped in many decades…By the way – acetaminophen is NO LONGER recommended for infants or youth. It also has about a 5X greater chance of causing your child to become asthmatic – and if that happens there is an exact correlation btwn their acetaminophen usage and the severity and occurrence of their asthma attacks.

      If you were vaccinated as a pregnant mother, new research shows that there are neurological effects from that which may predispose infants to ASD and other neurological damages. Studies in the 90s show that that shot given to pregnant women and infants can cause (rare) cases of microcephaly (in Brazil the TDaP is mandated in pregnancy – hmm) but more frequently neurological disorders, regression, developmental delays, and a large variety of seizures and convulsions….

      That could have adversely impacted your baby in utero – and of course if you take pHARMa drugs (keeping harm large) many hundreds contain acetaminophen….

      • MaGaO April 11, 2017 / 2:57 pm

        “Magao is wrong – breast milk can protect much longer than 6 months,”
        I wish I was, but I’m not. For more information you can read http://www.thescientificparent.org/passive-immunity-101-will-breast-milk-protect-my-baby-from-getting-sick/
        ” and if YOU aren’t vaccinated but got the wild disease – those antibodies have been shown to protect up to generally about 2 years of age, but some have had protection up to 10 years.”
        Or even longer. Then again, getting the disease can have serious side-effects up to and including death. In this last case, immunity is not a worry any more.
        “If you had vaccines you cannot transfer your antigens (i refuse to say immunity since vaccines NEVER give immunity on any level – biochemical impossibility) to protect your child.”
        This is false, plain and simple. You do not know either immunity or biochemistry.
        “If you were sick and used any acetaminophen there is also an autism link to that.”
        Offtopic and unproven.
        “When (80s) the circumcision group started using acetaminophen as their painkiller of choice in the males – that male population IMMEDIATELY had an increase in autism rates.”
        Maybe you can back up this assertion with medical studies.
        ” The two years in which Tylenol was contaminated had acetaminophen sales drops – and those are the ONLY two years in which autism rates have dropped in many decades…By the way – acetaminophen is NO LONGER recommended for infants or youth. It also has about a 5X greater chance of causing your child to become asthmatic – and if that happens there is an exact correlation btwn their acetaminophen usage and the severity and occurrence of their asthma attacks.”
        Again, unproven.
        “If you were vaccinated as a pregnant mother, new research shows that there are neurological effects from that which may predispose infants to ASD and other neurological damages. ”
        New research that you don’t link to.
        “Studies in the 90s show that that shot given to pregnant women and infants can cause (rare) cases of microcephaly (in Brazil the TDaP is mandated in pregnancy – hmm) but more frequently neurological disorders, regression, developmental delays, and a large variety of seizures and convulsions….”
        Which study says that?
        “That could have adversely impacted your baby in utero – and of course if you take pHARMa drugs (keeping harm large) many hundreds contain acetaminophen….”
        Which is not a vaccine component so you keep talking offtopic.

        • brad April 14, 2017 / 11:02 am

          Breastfeeding helping prevent disease for reasonably long times.

          https://healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/baby/breastfeeding/Pages/Breastfeeding-Benefits-Your-Babys-Immune-System.aspx

          The JABBER crowd is always going on about how “Safe” and effective vaccines are -and always rattling on about lame studies regarding “proof” of no autism caused by vaccines – but when i discuss other modalities for acquiring Autism – that is off topic? Surely you jest – you should jump on that as a vaxassination proponent and say “See! It isn’t the vaccines!” but you blew your opportunity, lol.

          So – Autism – ONE vaccine studied, and ONE ingredient. Mercury – and the debunking of a mercury autism connection was by that felonious criminal – Thorsen(?) who participated in BOTH of those fraudulent, disproven studies – and are the only two studies the CDC has regarding mercury/autism. But they state that “their body of work” is not changed by the Thorsen fraud…

          What is it? Thorsen DID your body of work – is a felon criminal who did bad research, but his invalid studies don’t invalidate his invalid studies, boggle, boggle, blither blither….

          • MaGaO April 14, 2017 / 11:56 am

            “Breastfeeding helping prevent disease for reasonably long times.
            https://healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/baby/breastfeeding/Pages/Breastfeeding-Benefits-Your-Babys-Immune-System.aspx
            From digestive tract viruses, not pulmonary ones or any other kind.
            “The JABBER crowd is always going on about how “Safe” and effective vaccines are -and always rattling on about lame studies regarding “proof” of no autism caused by vaccines – but when i discuss other modalities for acquiring Autism – that is off topic?”
            It is. We are talking vaccines.
            ” Surely you jest –”
            Don’t call me Shirley.
            ” you should jump on that as a vaxassination proponent and say “See! It isn’t the vaccines!” but you blew your opportunity, lol.”
            “You blew, you blew”. Dear, this is about vaccines, never mind what that bunch of nonsense you call information says. I won’t waste time on chasing wild geese on your say so.
            “So – Autism – ONE vaccine studied, and ONE ingredient. Mercury – and the debunking of a mercury autism connection was by that felonious criminal – Thorsen(?) who participated in BOTH of those fraudulent, disproven studies – and are the only two studies the CDC has regarding mercury/autism.”
            With “one study” you are certainly not talking about Walker’s travesty are you? The rest of your character assassination merits no answer.
            ” But they state that “their body of work” is not changed by the Thorsen fraud…”
            Of course, frauds only happen when they suit you. When studies are proven wrong and badly carried out… it is conspiracy.
            “What is it? Thorsen DID your body of work – is a felon criminal who did bad research, but his invalid studies don’t invalidate his invalid studies, boggle, boggle, blither blither….”
            You know that many studies have been carried out by other researchers and none of them have resulted in evidence for a correlation (much less a cause-effect relationship) between thimerosal in vaccines and autism, don’t you?
            I think you will need help to pick your cherry orchard.

      • Notnearlyanonymous April 13, 2017 / 8:18 am

        Please provide the source of the information for each of your points.
        As a researcher yourself, surely you wouldn’t want us to simply take anyone’s word for such statements.

  5. Michael February 5, 2017 / 6:12 am

    By sheer coincidence, big pharmaceuticals are making billions from vaccinations which do more harm than good. Educate yourselves upon the disgusting vaccine ingredients. They include Mercury (Thimerosal), tissue from aborted tortured babies, MSG (Monosodium Glutomate), Aluminiium (contributing to Altzheimers), Amonium Suphate, animal tissues from horse, pig, sheep,monkeys etc), Formaldehyde
    http://liamscheff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Vaccine-cocktail.html
    So called-cot deaths are an allergic response to the above mentioned poisons which bypass the body’s natural immunity via the needle. You have been warned.
    Doctors will NOT put their money where their mouths are by signing a physician’s warranty of vaccination safety indemnity waiver:
    http://preventdisease.com/news/12/050212_If-Your-Doctor-Insists-That-Vaccines-Are-Safe-Have-Them-Sign-This-Form.shtml

    • MaGaO February 5, 2017 / 10:29 am

      Michael, do you think Big Pharma is bigger than life insurance companies? Because it is not, and life insurance companies are notoriously adept at trying to avoid paying. One of the ways they do it is by covering vaccinations.
      You can find something disgusting, I guess, but its effects on your health will not change. For example, you will get more formaldehyde eating an apple than getting one vaccine.
      Thiomersal is not mercury, it contains mercury. And vaccines basically contain no thiomersal either “thanks” to anti-vaccine alarmism.
      MSG is innocuous at vaccine quantities: you will get much larger doses through food intake.
      I would really like you to check again yes that “tissue from tortured babies” issue.

      • brad April 14, 2017 / 10:53 am

        Stop pretending that oral ingestion is identical to intramuscular injection. Legitimate science knows that injecting proteins into the body can easily lead to allergies – for example peanuts and the peanut ingredients in vaccines can cause allergies to peanut products – since the macrophages KNOW that undigested proteins past the intestinal lining are NOT belonging there. They key in on those proteins – turned on by the thymus – and when you eat proteins the correct NATURAL way and have well digested peanut proteins – your macrophages still recognize them as something that must be attacked because you’d injected them and bypassed the natural system as designed.

        Same thing for aluminum. The fake vaxassination reassurances about aluminum safety are ridiculous. (to start with aluminum is a proven evil for alzheimers, and a rainbow of wonderful peace and love when jammed into your infant’s muscle system unnaturally) They state that only a teensy amount of aluminum is actually allowed into the body – but A) that is a different form of aluminum – not the nanoparticle colloid used in vaccines, and B) it is orally consumed at which point they think that only about 0.4% gets passed into the body. When you inject it ALL the aluminum is put in the body – AND remains in those muscle tissues until over time it is transferred into the brain. It happens faster if you take in fluoride of course since aluminum itself does not easily cross the BBB – but it forms a compound with fluoride which easily crosses – and it remains toxic in the brain.

        • MaGaO April 14, 2017 / 12:14 pm

          “Stop pretending that oral ingestion is identical to intramuscular injection.”
          Don’t put words in my mouth, please.
          “Legitimate science”
          You mean “science that I agree with”, right?
          ” knows that injecting proteins into the body can easily lead to allergies”
          Because, magically, all proteins get digested in the digestive tract and never will a protein get through the intestines. Sure, sure.
          ” – for example peanuts and the peanut ingredients in vaccines can cause allergies to peanut products –”
          Because vaccines have peanut compounds in them. Except they don’t.
          ” since the macrophages KNOW that undigested proteins past the intestinal lining are NOT belonging
          there.”
          And macrophages are able to tell undigested proteins from other proteins… how?
          ” They key in on those proteins – turned on by the thymus – and when you eat proteins the correct NATURAL way and have well digested peanut proteins – your macrophages still recognize them as something that must be attacked because you’d injected them and bypassed the natural system as designed.”
          This is so dumb I can’t really understand how you even wrote it. Peanut allergies show up on unvaccinated people too: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021870739900432
          “Same thing for aluminum.”
          As usual, you pay no attention. Aluminum is not used in vaccines. Aluminum hydroxide is. Please learn the difference.
          ” The fake vaxassination reassurances about aluminum safety are ridiculous. (to start with aluminum is a proven evil for alzheimers, and a rainbow of wonderful peace and love when jammed into your infant’s muscle system unnaturally)”
          Your child will get more aluminum from breast mik or scratches on the ground than what vaccines carry. But, hey, stay on your MLP world where children only find aluminum in aluminum foil for their hats.
          ” They state that only a teensy amount of aluminum is actually allowed into the body – but A) that is a different form of aluminum – not the nanoparticle colloid used in vaccines,”
          It actually is exactly the same compound: aluminum hydroxide.
          ” and B) it is orally consumed at which point they think that only about 0.4% gets passed into the body.”
          Which quickly adds up to much more than any vaccine the child gets.
          “When you inject it ALL the aluminum is put in the body –”
          Actually no, but don’t let reality bother you.
          ” AND remains in those muscle tissues until over time it is transferred into the brain.”
          That is false as well.
          ” It happens faster if you take in fluoride of course since aluminum itself does not easily cross the BBB – but it forms a compound with fluoride which easily crosses – and it remains toxic in the brain.”
          Oh, great, not happy with your aluiminum conspiracy, you decide to bring fluoride in the mix. But, hey, you still think metallic aluminum is used in vaccines. What could one expect from your ramblings?

        • Gewisn April 14, 2017 / 10:41 pm

          Brad, in honestly curious.
          You’ve obviously done a lot of reading from a lot of different sources, so I’m wondering:

          What sort of information, from what sort of sources, could change your mind and cause you to see vaccines as a net positive, where the benefits overwhelmingly outweigh the risks?
          Also, in what way have you searched for exactly that sort of information?

          Please note that a listing of the reasons you’ve concluded what you have would not answer the questions I’m asking.
          In asking, “What could change your mind?”

        • Gewisn April 14, 2017 / 10:42 pm

          Correction:
          “I’m honestly curious”

    • Richard Daggett February 5, 2017 / 12:02 pm

      viewing one of his books, this is what the reviewer said of Liam Scheff, “Never before have I seen someone who is so willfully uninformed put pen to paper and publish their failings for the world to see. Never before have I seen someone be so blissfully ignorant of his or her own ineptitude. And never before have I seen someone suffer this badly from delusions of superiority.”

    • Chris February 5, 2017 / 2:59 pm

      Michael, you should be careful who you hang out with: The Foul-Mouthed Liam Scheff.

      “By sheer coincidence, big pharmaceuticals are making billions from vaccinations which do more harm than good.”

      Really? Then provide us the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the disease.

      Then when you a done with that, provide a valid economic schedule that it is cheaper to treat diseases like measles, Hib meningitis, etc than to prevent them with vaccinations. Here is a study to guide you on what data you need to provide:
      Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009

    • Evidenceorgetout February 5, 2017 / 10:20 pm

      provide us the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the disease.

      Still waiting

      • Jannette April 8, 2017 / 6:12 pm

        Can you provide evidence from a study that has not been backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used.. Please provide a study that proves vaccines are safe and cause no harm.. I would love to see it.

          • bestquest April 8, 2017 / 7:58 pm

            That’s exactly like saying “The onus is on you to provide evidence that cutting your head off is more dangerous than not cutting it off.”

            • Chris April 9, 2017 / 12:57 am

              Explain that analogy. Severing a head is always fatal. Which vaccine or vaccine preventable disease is always fatal?

              Do you actually understand the term “relative risk”?

            • MaGaO April 9, 2017 / 2:18 am

              Well, the evidence I linked to shows that vaccination is concurrent with a reduction several risks beside those directly associated to the pathogens vaccines protect against.
              So, what do you consider “cutting your head off”?

        • Notnearlyanonymous April 9, 2017 / 2:14 am

          Janette,
          What percent of the studies in the links in Dr Raff’s original post were “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used?”
          Exactly what percent did you calculate were “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used?”

          Please tell us what percent would need to Not be “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used,” to change your mind.
          If 10% were Not “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used,” would that change your mind?
          How about 20%, or 50%, or 70%?
          If 70% were not “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used,” would that change your mind?

          Please list all the ones you found that were not “backed by a company that will benefit from Vaccines being used.”

  6. Derek Main February 6, 2017 / 6:33 am

    Science has become a fraud – particularly for pharmaceuticals. One only need to look at the “science” Monsanto uses to justify their claims to know this. It is difficult to know which science to trust and which not to. In fact, it’s got to the point that if you want to know what the results of any scientific research will be, find out who funded it.

    • MaGaO February 6, 2017 / 8:01 am

      And yet here we are, alive thanks to that “fraud”. Funny, isn’t it?
      Also, you accuse Monsanto of science fraud. Is it related to vaccines?

      • brad April 14, 2017 / 10:45 am

        We are NOT alive because of fraud – science – we are alive because that is what life does. Life is so much more complicated than science even guesses at, and let’s face it – both the (now former) head editors of the world’s most prestigious medical institutions state that about half of all scientific papers published today are worthless. Mostly because of multiple variations on fraud and deception.
        So much for automatically trusting “science”. Then figure that back in 2005, the university funding was 85% corporate funded – now it’s much higher. The surveys taken show that up to 62% of the “scientists” taking that funding would consider “fudging their data or outcomes” to get more funding the next year. That means that the so-called science which drives society (decisions made ostensibly for scientifically valid reasons regarding the direction of society) are now also to large degree comprised of corporate propaganda for their profits at the expense of others.

        One sterling and irrefutable example of such would be GMOs and GMOrons…

        • MaGaO April 14, 2017 / 12:21 pm

          “We are NOT alive because of fraud – science – we are alive because that is what life does.”
          XDDDDD
          You just can’t be writing that with a serious face: we have been around for, what. 60-100ka? and we haven’t been able to get a life expectancy above 40 years until antibiotics, vaccines and science actually started working. But no, it can’t be science that had anything to do with it. It doesn’t matter that life expectancy started to rise in different countries after antibiotics and vaccines arrived. It has to be just a coincidence, repeated over a hundred times. Sure.
          ” Life is so much more complicated than science even guesses at, and let’s face it – both the (now former) head editors of the world’s most prestigious medical institutions state that about half of all scientific papers published today are worthless.”
          They don’t actually say that, but don’t worry: your quick reading of a conspiracy website makes you right each and every time. The Dunning-Kruger is strong in you.
          ” Mostly because of multiple variations on fraud and deception.
          So much for automatically trusting “science”. Then figure that back in 2005, the university funding was 85% corporate funded – now it’s much higher.”
          Where did that happen? USA perhaps? Once more: do you even know there is a world outside your backyard?
          ” The surveys taken show that up to 62% of the “scientists” taking that funding would consider “fudging their data or outcomes” to get more funding the next year.”
          Link, please? To the surveys, not
          ” That means that the so-called science which drives society (decisions made ostensibly for scientifically valid reasons regarding the direction of society) are now also to large degree comprised of corporate propaganda for their profits at the expense of others.”
          Hold strong to your tinfoil hat. Funny thing is, immunologists vaccinate their children even though they are part of the conspiracy… according to you.
          “One sterling and irrefutable example of such would be GMOs and GMOrons…”
          Yes, it is a sterling example of how little you understand of anything scientifically related.

          • mikrur April 14, 2017 / 1:56 pm

            MaGao, you’ve just made my day by your replies to brad. I’ve had such a good laugh. Thanks!

        • Cleverlyconfused April 14, 2017 / 10:53 pm

          You know, don’t you that the GMOs of seedless watermelons, grapes, etc were produced using radiation and cytotoxic chemicals and were never tested for other genetic changes or safety before hitting the market, but that today’s GMOs are tested to assure that only the desired genes are affected and that those genes breed true through motions generations before they are ever presented for the public.
          You knew that when you wrote “GMOrons,”didn’t you?

          Why would you write such a thing when you obviously knew that?

          • brad April 15, 2017 / 9:44 am

            And of course you know the GMO corn – according to Monsanto’s OWN STUDY is toxic to liver and kidney cells from all three varieties of corn tested – NK603, Mon810, and Mon863. But since their employee – former lawyer and former VP in charge of marketing was then running the FDA (de-facto – his decision ruled) Michael Taylor decided that liver and kidney toxicity are HEALTHY and then illegally violated the 1958 FDCA (food, drug, cosmetic act) and allowed them on the market without legally satisfying the mandated short and long term safety studies until virtually everyone is convinced that the new applicant is ACTUALLY safe. The biotech industry invented a false and dishonest status which they called “general equivalence” meaning it had proteins and stuff and looked like a plant, and didn’t kill you right away…. (sarcasm)

            Of course we now know beyond dispute that there IS no general equivalency to the real foods the GMOs have replaced, and that there are differing proteins, enzymes – and of course when you alter a portion of DNA – the entire genome is disrupted in ways that are unpredictable and uncontrollable. Like for example that Starlink that was pulled off the market for high levels of allergic reaction inducing proteins – contaminated the human food supply, duh. There are tests where different GMO corn was replanted for 3 years – and it mutated back into that protein in high levels – which makes the mandatory purchase of seeds from bioag not just an expensive and invasive legality, but actually might be safer than growing GMO corn out over generations – because it is NOT genetically stable.

            You of course know the first GMO product in the US killed a little over 120 people from EMS – Eisinophilic Myalgia Syndrome. It was SO severe and so immediate that people were hospitalized after taking their L-tryptophan supplements. That is the only reason we know and found out that the GMO based supplement was killing and damaging people. About 10,000 temporary CNS damage – about a thousand with permanent damage to their central nervous system. Yes – the industry tells us lies (and i’ve lived through this story and watched the “accepted” number of deaths drop from 120+ – to 90 some, then 70 some, then 40 some, then a bit over 30, and then in the 20s… How many dead people does it take to make a GMO product “safe”?) about how it was the filtration process that failed, not the GMO. Right -the same filtration process that other companies used failed here. The same filtration process that they had used for years failed now. Uh-huh. Wanna buy a big orange bridge cheap? Got one.

            They say that there was some EMS before the strain that killed the people was put on the market. This is actually true, but the strain that killed the most people was Strain V as in FIVE. Strains I and II were experimental, but strain III was put on the market. Strain IV was put on the market and IMMEDIATELY REMOVED – (because it worked so damn well? No – there was a problem) and strain III put back on the market. Strain V came out and the rest is history – and death. And damage.

            And of course you are aware that GMOs came within about 3 weeks (open release date) of killing the ENTIRE PHUKKING PLANET when some GMOrons decided to turn a soil bacteria into a fermentation inducing microbe to turn all of a crops residue into alcohol that they could sell to energy companies. They think win/win here.

            Here’s reality. Stupid idea because of several points of either specialization providing gross ignorance, or plain stupidity. If you take the entire crop off a field – what feeds your next crop? You just made a desert – unless you plan to use artificial fertilizers which are soil damaging theirselves, expensive, and create unhealthy plants. Secondly – the fools didn’t realize that Klebsiella Plantigo is in virtually every soil in the world in which crops are grown. They also were apparently ignorant of the fact that Klebsiella grows INSIDE the root systems of many living plants.

            So – you have a product that is totally toxic to probably every vascular plant on the planet, that grows inside most plant root systems and will then proceed to destroy those roots, which WILL genetically contaminate the wild relatives as every GMO with any reproductive capability has so far done, AND you have wind blowing it around the world. (you know the Sahara dust settles on the Amazon basin, right?) You have birds carrying it in dust baths. Shipping containers sitting on dirt, dust blown onto ships – you get the drift – and that genetic drift would have contaminated the entire world’s growing systems within likely a few decades.

            Thankfully, the U of Oregon (some one of those somewhere in there) found that EVERY plant with the GMO Kleb in it – died – while zero control plants died. The project was killed about 3 weeks from proposed release date – saving the world – unless you’ve been genetically modified to live without oxygen…..

            • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 9:56 am

              It is funny that this article is not about GMOs isn’t it?
              Not that your conspiranoia has but the slightest links to reality anyway.

              • brad April 15, 2017 / 10:14 am

                Uhm – am is supposed to apologize to you for responding to GMO comments from the person whom i responded to?
                For presenting verifiable facts that you don’t want to hear, so label paranoia with delusional implications? For you to deny some reality that you don’t like – just because it does not support what you WANT to be true is just intellectually silly.

                i know it’s painful – i have had to face having wrong paradigms before and know they are not easy to change, shift, adjust, etc. Some i still have to work on – and continue to do so. But when it is a fact that GMOs have problems and then have someone blithely state i’m living in la-la-land because you don’t know or want to accept those facts is just not my problem. It’s yours and indicates the true state of ignorance – not knowing – or closing your mind to the fact that YOU might have paradigms that are not based upon truth, just like most of us mere humans, lol

                • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:39 am

                  I now it’s painful,
                  but you know you’ve never actually read the science,
                  since you can’t provide the original sources demonstrating any of your claims.

                  You’ve read blogs about blogs from people who never bothered to learn the science.
                  How do I know? Because you’ve been asked several times for the original sources for your opinions – but won’t produce any.

                  How would you characterize a theory about a vast conspiracy of scientists from all over the world, over the past ~250 years of vacccine science, for which you can’t provide any original sources, that would be poisoning the conspirators’ own families and all their customers,
                  whose theory presumes that any contradictory information is automatically presumed to be false without ever looking at the primary sources from which it’s produced, and who refuses to learn the basic science upon which the contradictory information is built?

                  Really, how would you characterize that theory?
                  And then I’d like to know in what ways your stance differs from the description provided above.

                  And before you attempt to turn the questions toward me without having answered about youself:
                  I learned the science on which the vaccine preventions are built. I learned about the diseases that they prevent. I learned the epidemiology that explains herd immunity. I can and do read the original sources, and the critiques of the original research. I can, and do, talk to researchers both inside and outside the corporations. I know, first hand, that both sets of researchers vaccinate their families, and I know that pediatricians vaccinate their families.

            • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 11:22 am

              Please list the primary source for each of those claims.

              You have yet to backup your claims, in either field of science, with useful citations.
              How do you imagine that makes your claims more believable?

              Dr Raff has given you hundreds of original sources, directly or via sources that make vast lists of primary sources available to you.

              What do you think it means that, so far, you’ve been unable to do the same, but claim to know more?

    • Elizabeth April 7, 2017 / 6:42 pm

      Monsanto does have a problematic history of funding studies to deny the effects of pesticides on pollinators and soil quality. But that has nothing to do with hundreds of independent studies conducted over decades on the benefits and side effects of vaccines.
      The pharmaceutical industry largely makes its money off drugs that they continue to tweak periodically so that they can continue to keep a generic version from being released. One of the meds I’m presently on prices at app. $1 a milligram. That kind of thing adds up a lot faster than one time vaccine series.

  7. Erica February 7, 2017 / 12:12 am

    Really?!?? people who follow a shiny clean “proof” that vaccines are safe have a lot to learn. I only had limited vaccines and also had whooping cough at age 4. Was allowed to be around kids who had contracted mumps, measles, German measles, yellow jaunice and chicken pox on many occasions and I never contracted them as a child. Contracted chicken pox aged 21 after my daughter and my now ex boyfiend’s kid brother got it and my immunity was low.

    My son was born a perfect baby and yet suddenly displayed autism after the measles vaccines.

    Catch a wake up. Vaccines cause more damage than help and consider the fact that hygiene played a big part in how childhood diseases went down since the early 1950’s.

    • MaGaO February 7, 2017 / 9:43 am

      Sorry, the plural of anecdote is not statistics.
      Also, hygiene has nothing to do with many infectious diseases. Unless, of course, you assert that hygiene got better at the same time vaccines were introduced in every country because infection rates went down at that time.

    • Jeroen Brosens February 7, 2017 / 10:36 am

      I live in Eindhoven, the Netherlands, a region which was acclaimed as the ‘smartest region in the world’ a while ago. It is the European Silicon Valley, housing a slew of global high-tech companies.

      A lot of us here are highly educated and work in technological jobs where – a form of – autism can be called a gift even. There are numerous companies actively hiring autists to work as software testing professionals because of their excellent eye on detail and focus.

      Currently, our region has a 4 times higher autism rate than average. It has been researched (see linked article) in Cambridge that our region has developed into a higher autism rate over the years because of the concentration of ICT companies. My brother has it, my sister to a degree and – no surprise – both of my parents have aspects of it too. I work in the high tech business and are surrounded with similar colleagues as well.

      Also, our vaccination behaviour is no different from everyone else’s. We breed autism; it’s in our genes. Your baby boy may have shown signs of autism after he was vaccinated. That’s because autism starts to show when the cognitive skills start to develop, which happens to coincide with the moment that one gets vaccinated against child diseases. There is only a correlation, not a causality.

      Sources:
      http://www.brainport.nl/en/news-developments/brainport-regio-eindhoven-is-nieuwe-silicon-valley
      http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/diagnosed-autism-is-more-common-in-an-it-rich-region

    • j0bro February 7, 2017 / 10:37 am

      I live in Eindhoven, the Netherlands, a region which was acclaimed as the ‘smartest region in the world’ a while ago. It is the European Silicon Valley, housing a slew of global high-tech companies.

      A lot of us here are highly educated and work in technological jobs where – a form of – autism can be called a gift even. There are numerous companies actively hiring autists to work as software testing professionals because of their excellent eye on detail and focus.

      Currently, our region has a 4 times higher autism rate than average. It has been researched (see linked article) in Cambridge that our region has developed into a higher autism rate over the years because of the concentration of ICT companies. My brother has it, my sister to a degree and – no surprise – both of my parents have aspects of it too. I work in the high tech business and are surrounded with similar colleagues as well.

      Also, our vaccination behaviour is no different from everyone else’s. We breed autism; it’s in our genes. Your baby boy may have shown signs of autism after he was vaccinated. That’s because autism starts to show when the cognitive skills start to develop, which happens to coincide with the moment that one gets vaccinated against child diseases. There is only a correlation, not a causality.

      Sources:
      http://www.brainport.nl/en/news-developments/brainport-regio-eindhoven-is-nieuwe-silicon-valley
      http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/diagnosed-autism-is-more-common-in-an-it-rich-region

    • Evidenceorgetout February 7, 2017 / 3:40 pm

      “Vaccines cause more damage than help”

      Please present your evidence for that claim, other than unverifiable anecdote.

      • MaGaO February 7, 2017 / 4:14 pm

        Good luck with that request. I think this will be another case of “L’Oréal fallacy” (“because I’m worth it”) 🙂

        • Evidenceorbegone February 7, 2017 / 8:43 pm

          I’m stealing that and never giving you credit!!

          • MaGaO February 8, 2017 / 1:42 am

            You can’t steal what is freely given. Use it at your leisure 🙂

      • brad April 14, 2017 / 11:05 am

        Try reading some of the late Dr Moulden’s work.

        • Notnearlyanonymous April 14, 2017 / 9:58 pm

          Please provide the PubMed indexed journal citations demonstrating the good Dr’s work so that we can look up how week his/her research held up on review and replication.

  8. mikrur February 8, 2017 / 11:10 am

    I have a question, there is this idea about cell strains of aborted babies being used in vaccines. My biology knowledge is minimal. Can someone explain how vaccines are made?

    • MaGaO February 22, 2017 / 8:33 am

      You may want to read https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/aborted-fetal-tissue-and-vaccines-combining-pseudoscience-and-religion-to-demonize-vaccines-2/
      If you are in a hurry, you will want to skip to the section named “Fetal cell lines and vaccines”.
      If you are really in a hurry, here is a condensed version: there were a couple foetal abortions (in the 60s) which provided cells to begin”cell lines”. These cell lines are used to grow some viruses (because it cannot be fine otherwise).
      Technically, yes: aborted babies were used. Two of them. In the 60s. And they were early foetuses. Even the Catholic Church considers the cell lines far enough removed from the abortions to accept these vaccines.
      I still recommend you read the link.

    • brad April 13, 2017 / 11:52 am

      Fetal cell lines have a “shelf life”. The ones used in the US are at the end of their effectiveness – and when this happens they become tumorigenic – produce much higher numbers of tumors. This is one reason why the Chinese killed over 400 fetuses to find a new cell line.
      The original cell lines for the MMR were done (is that the diploid cell line WI-38?) in the early 60s – you know, when abortions were AGAINST THE LAW!
      But, MDs wanted to make a fortune off the mumps vaccine with this genetic material, and told horror stories to at least 40 women who “had mumps while pregnant” and frightened them with stories about deformed babies, babies who would have severe deformities, brain issues, never have a normal life, etc. Convinced them to have (illegal) abortions – for the advantage of the “scientists”.

      So most of the babies had NO PROBLEMS – but they hit antigens in the female – 38th fetus…

      When you have DNA fragments in your vaccines, and those DNA segments come in contact with a developing fetus, or a person with inflammation – the cell walls are compromised, and sometimes the vaccine DNA (dog parts, calf pieces, egg stuff, monkey chunks, and the ever popular dead baby DNA in “diploid cells) combines in unpredictable manners with the fetal/infant/child DNA and causes genetic damages – which then are known to stimulate autoimmune diseases as the bad DNA coding is not wanted by what your body is designed to actually have.

      Since the messenger molecules – 30% of which come from soil microbiota, (meaning they are missing from processed, GMO, factory farming – and to slightly lesser degree cultivated organic soils) are usually missing – the control of aberrant cellular processes (cancer, insulin resistance, heart issues, bad genetic replication, etc) is frequently lacking.

      This is so new in understanding that we have no idea WHAT is causing what result/action, but we do know that soil microbiology is IN OUR BRAINS and influences the first and second brains – first being the brain itself, second being the brain in our intestines and it’s link to and influence of the cerebral brain. The third brain is the probiotics that keep us all alive – in our mucosal membranes from nose/mouth to the point of elimination. The newly proposed 4th brain is the new colonization being found of soil and other microbiology (usually foreign to human genetics) IN THE BRAIN itself.

      Even if one pretends that it’s okay to kill babies for medical science – the practice is grossly repugnant. Fetuses pulled MOST of the way out of the body – head left in usually – as the un-anaesthitized fetus has it’s organs removed while living. Sometimes that is reversed and without anaesthezia, the brain is removed “live”…

      http://www.livingwhole.org/what-you-didnt-know-about-the-aborted-baby-parts-in-your-vaccines/

      • MaGaO April 13, 2017 / 1:37 pm

        WI-38 is not reaching any “shelf life” limit: it is kept in specific conditions that allow cells to live for very long.
        Also, WI-38 derives from a legal Swedish abortion.
        If you want to know a bit more about the affair and talk a bit less nonsense you can read http://www.ascb.org/activation-energy/the-story-of-wi-38-the-other-famous-cell-line/
        The rest of your comment is just regurgitating previous nonsense (vaccine “DNA” combining with human DNA… facepalm). Then again, par for the course. You keep using misleading and cherry-picking sources.

        • brad April 14, 2017 / 11:15 am

          The cells do not live forever. They need reproduction to keep the strain viable and active. After decades there is evidence of decline and increases in tumorigenic effects.

          WI-38 was from Sweden, and shipped to the US (possibly illegally) where the profits from the product developed from that strain were in contention. (Hayflick) The baby was a 20 cm long female body, put on ice – shipped to the US. Maybe without parental consent.

          The abortions you refer to in the 60s were the two chosen from scores of dead babies from illegal abortions encouraged by MDs/scientists for their profits. And they do make money from their profits for vaccines they develop. Whether you are talking about Salk, “Dr Paul” Offitt or whoever.

          Here’s a different viewpoint – perhaps the most salient point being that science says it cannot advance without dead baby parts. Well – that’s bull – or bad science by unintelligent scientists.

          http://www.livingwhole.org/what-you-didnt-know-about-the-aborted-baby-parts-in-your-vaccines/

          This one doesn’t go into detail about taking fetuses and pulling them partway out and vivisecting them.

      • Notnearlyanonymous April 13, 2017 / 10:36 pm

        Please point to an MD who has more money off the MMR vaccine than the admitted fraud, liar, and all around scum Andrew Wakefield -who enrolled children into a fake vaccine study with the express intent of trying to show that the working MMR vaccine to be harmful in order to sell a competing (but never proven safe or effective) vaccine and he was financed by a shyster lawyer looking for a reason to sue.

        He didn’t have anything at all against vaccines in general, until he was stripped of his credentials and found he could make more on the woo talk circuit.
        He just wanted to use children, without proper consent, to create fake news in order to make himself more money.

        That’s it.
        That’s your only practicing physician (until he lost his license) who made oodles of the MMR vaccine.

  9. Tyrone April 7, 2017 / 3:08 am

    “Agent 666” is a reference to the Devil…basically Anti-vaxxers would claim you are a child of Satan.

    • brad April 13, 2017 / 9:46 am

      Are you really silly enough to believe that there is a huge satanic conspiracy btwn people who have had their kids damaged by vaccines – and refuse to damage their other kids, people who simply want to delay or reduce the poison load of the vaccines, and we who like vaccines even less than that – but you want to pretend we are one monolithic block of satanists.

      ……..right. That would be at best delusional.

  10. Bp April 7, 2017 / 8:07 am

    http://vaxxter.com/triplets-regress-into-autism-following-vaccine/

    :Triplets regress into autismnfollowing vaccine”.
    Sorry vaccines are not tested for safety and the more you learn about how much even a Dr is taught about them and have an open mind it’s a scary thought!! And there is a documentary out called Vaxxed about the link between autism and vaccines.

    • Colin April 7, 2017 / 11:52 am

      Of course vaccines are tested for safety, and continually monitored as well. You’ve been lied to by conspiracy theorists who want you to be afraid.

      We’ve seen Vaxxed, and there are articles here about our impressions. I also personally interviewed Andrew Wakefield, who made it. He earned his reputation as a fraud and a liar; the movie is dishonest and inaccurate.

    • Notnearlyanonymous April 8, 2017 / 3:15 pm

      “the more you learn about how much even a Dr is taught about them”

      Okay, tell us how much you think is taught about vaccines in US medical schools and where you got that information.

        • Notnearlyanonymous April 14, 2017 / 10:33 pm

          Did you ever ask any physicians?
          American physicians generally have to get good grades (mostly ask A’s) in a large variety of biology and chemistry classes that have immunology information, microbiology, and/it vaccine information. Undergraduate microbiology alone involves 12 hrs per week of class, study, and lab x12 weeks, equals 144 hrs. That’s before medical school.
          In my medical school, in the first year, there’s another, advanced microbiology course that’s about 180 hrs and a specific immunology course that was about 160 hrs. In second year, the infectious disease section took easily 240 hrs.

          In 3rd and 4th year rotations, we worked about 60hrs per week and studied about 30 hrs per week for, 8 weeks (720 hrs) about 20% of which was about vaccines and treating vaccine preventable diseases, totalling 144 hrs. Internal medicine and advanced internal medicine easily required 1200 hrs, of which I’d guess about 20% involved infectious disease, for which we needed to know whether there was a vaccine, why it why not, and what vaccine-preventable diseases the patient was more vulnerable to because of the primary disease.

          Now if the graduate happens to go into pediatrics, he/she will spend about 70 hrs per week working and 15 hrs per week studying for 3-4 years (85 x 50wks x 3yrs = 12750 hrs) of which at least 20% will be treating, preventing, explaining vaccine-preventable illnesses (2550 hrs).

          And for all of that they need to know and understand the risks vs benefits involved in vaccination so that they can make the right clinical decisions.

          So, please, tell me again how much education physicians have about vaccines and the diseases they prevent.

          Don’t believe me ?
          Go look at the medical school prerequisites and the medical school course schedules.
          We’ll wait.

          • brad April 15, 2017 / 2:42 pm

            Look at the vid i linked. Look at how the textbooks just plain don’t cover vaccines for diddly squat. These are from some Teaching University in Texas, but they are part of the national association that sets standards for all the medical teaching universities – and they are pretty standardized.

            You are literally shown the books – each of them – and how much they discuss vaccines. For the pediatrics course there of course WAS more on vaccines. Eleven pages of CDC schedules. A few pages of containdications that MDs and pediatricians fight all the time with lies, bullying, shaming, guilt, and virtually always not giving any real information to the patient.

            As a doctor i’d bet you’ve never given a patient any vaccine insert – at most an insistent patient might get handed your edited CDC risk assessment. That is not full medical disclosure – and against the law in my state if i ask for that. In fact, by international (plus) law – if you do not provide full medical disclosure, or provide inaccurate medical disclosure, when you touch me it is legally considered assault and battery, because you stole my right (world-wide, human) right of INFORMED CONSENT.

            Without that INFORMED CONSENT – no law invalidating that is legally in effect. Period.

            i’m glad you got more “industry programming” information as a student, it can not hurt – too much, lol. But you STILL have no safety studies proving aluminum injected into muscles is safe. It is simply assumed to be so. You have no safety study proving that MSG, or African Green Monkey Kidneys are safe.

            In fact – go look at the Flulaval insert. It states on that, very clearly, that NO STUDIES have proven it to be safe for fetuses or infants. Breastfeeding mothers or their breastfeeding infants. In fact – there are no studies showing that taking the Flulaval shot will reduce your risk of getting influenza – theoretically the main point of the toxic garbage.

            And if you give someone the multi-dose injection with the mercury – well we KNOW the original thimerosal studies killed people. 22 people with meningitis were injected with thimerosal, and all of them died within a day or so. The people who ran this study claimed it a success – the doctor running the study was not convinced there was any success in treatment – and recommended studying the results for toxicity, etc. It was declared safe since none of the patients recorded “anaphylaxoid reactions” or immediate toxicity. That’s like saying cyanide doesn’t pose the threat of arsenic – so it’s safe. That is the basis for it’s having been included in tons of OTC preps – vaginal douches, eye drops, nasal sprays, wound disinfectants – etc – until review of these products showed that virtually every one of them was either unsafe or ineffective at preventing bacterial infection…

            So – mercury in Flulaval. According to the EPA – the safe level for EITHER type of mercury in humans is zero. None. So if the multi-dose vaccine contained only 2ppb – that would exceed safe human levels. Period – no debate allowed. But if it only contained 20ppb – that would be a level where one can observe nerve damage as myelin sheathing is destroyed: exposing the nerves – which constantly fire until they die from over-excitation. At 200ppb – you need to dispose of this in a level III toxic waste dump – but it turns out that the flu vaccine victim IS the toxic waste dump as they receive ALL the aforementioned problems to much greater degree – but they get it at 2,000ppb. So talk about safe. i’m SURE they covered these little things in all your vaccine education, right? Did they mention Rotavirus vaccines being known to cause intussuseption? Did they mention the NVICP paying out over $3,000,000,000 dollars to proven victims of vaccine damages – including 83 to people who had vaccines cause them “neurological damages including autism” – which needless to say “doesn’t happen”. Not since the industry kicked that TDaP vaccine out of the US (still marketed in 3rd world) which had autism listed as a possible adverse reaction….

            Nope – you know all that so we need to shut the ____ up, sit the ____ down, and DO WHAT YOU TELL US TO DO because you obviously know everything. Well, at least what the drug pushers want you to know. And that especially includes med school….

            • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 2:44 pm

              Dodging providing evidence as usual. Oh well…

            • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 2:49 pm

              So you refuse to look at the medical school prerequisites and course scedules which would have the actual information that you claim to have in this video, but instead use this unverified video and make additional unverified claims about the objects in it.

              Our lecture transcripts alone for the semester-long immunology course were a few hundred pages long, and that didn’t count the textbook or the additional readings. And that doesn’t count the undergraduate or the med school microbiology course or the second year infectious disease domain.

              There is no “standardized” book selection for medical schools. Again, simply a lie, that you got from the video, I presume, and not from any original source.

            • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 2:56 pm

              What we NEED from you (since you like all caps)
              is original sources for a single one of your claims.

              Without that, you are demonstrating that you actually have nothing.
              Not a single thing.

              good luck with that

    • Notnearlyanonymous April 8, 2017 / 3:23 pm

      ” there is a documentary out called Vaxxed about the link between autism and vaccines”

      Please explain the decision-making process by which you concluded that the documentary provided scientifically accurate and complete information.

      Then please tell us how you went about comparing your decision-making process about Vaxxed to the ~30,000 hours of professional education and experience behind the average university vaccine and immunology researchers.

  11. walmsleywanderings April 7, 2017 / 11:00 am

    Wow.. great summary. I totally feel for people who have children with issues like (low functioning) Autism or other and even have a sister who my mother feels became intellectually different after her childhood vaccinations.. but I have chosen to vaccinate my kids. I think somehow it makes it easier for people to have something to blame their issues on (not bagging my mother.. because she did an awesome job). And it is easy to blame some big Pharma company that you know nothing about that seems invested in its own interests for problems that happened around the time of the vaccination.. In the end I chose to see hard evidence (not case reports) as our best method of deciding between fact and scare-mongering..

  12. Chris Atkins April 8, 2017 / 2:20 pm

    I feel like l have traveled back in time to listen to the “fluoride” conspiracy theorists. Maybe if we get rid of vaccines it’ll make America great again. Greatly ill, anyway.

    • brad April 13, 2017 / 10:35 am

      This is going to take some time and words – sorry.
      First – STOP WORSHIPING SCIENCE because it is mostly “science” today. You know, where the peer review process rabidly attacked Galileo, Velikovsky, and others – and ended up looking like crap because the “science” and their conclusions were WRONG? You mean like the science that was settled proving lead water pipes are safe, a pack of cigarettes per day keeps the doctor away? (actual quote from the 2 MDs who put together the initially secret California Cancer Society paper in the 60s – one died from lung cancer – the other burned himself up falling asleep on his couch with a cigarette)

      Your researchers don’t know as much a they don’t know. Until about a year ago, nobody realized that the brain has a vascular system. That there is literal, constant communication btwn the gut and the brain, and there are MENTAL INFLUENCES by microbials within the ENTIRE body system. Mostly in the intestinal and mucosal membranes from mouth/nose through the rectum/anus. There is a second colony inside the brain – and these influence food choices and who knows what else?

      We have recently found out that one of the largest health factors to repairing our bodies is the inter – cellular communication which regulates aberrant cells. So these messengers for example tell a cancerous cell that they are supposed to (apoptosis) self-destruct – IF you have those messenger microbials – AND ABOUT THIRTY PERCENT OF THOSE MESSENGER MOLECULES COME FROM HEALTHY, LIVING SOIL including many of those found inside the brain.

      So – we have a long period now of tinkering with and short circuiting the immune system by vaccination (and the initial damaging variolation of Jenner and his flawed theory and practices) AND NO CLUE ABOUT THESE UNKNOWN INTERACTING BRAIN/BODY SYSTEM PATHWAYS and how they affect the immune system and cross into the BBB – at LEAST three ways known. Hitching on macrophages, the brain connection to the lymphatic system, the usage of known neurotoxins in vaccines like MSG (neuroexciter that can overstimulate seratonin receptors until they “burn out”) and things like detergents (Polysorbate 80 and others in other shots) which pretty much carry the other toxins across the BBB.

      Since NONE of these factors has been studied – and since vaccine “safety studies” are a total farce – your safety conclusions are of course (and because science evolves and is NOT a simple end-point) not very accurate for all people, all the time.

      Farcical safety studies – why i state that: NO industry vaccine study has compared any vaccine to a truly inert placebo. Their study placebos almost always consist of ingredients which are basically a vaccine without the live, attenuated or other pathogenic DNA. So – since we KNOW that aluminum is toxic, and we KNOW that it forces biochemical addressing by the immune system and stresses it, forcing the formation of antigens – you are going to have a very similar effect as the vaccine being tested. They put in the aluminum ostensibly for the purpose of increasing the antigen response, because the aluminum elicits more response than the pathogens their selves.

      No safety studies compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated groups. Congress has told the CDC to do so for years – CDC refuses. They know that like all comparisons – the vaccinated children/people will be obviously less healthy. In Hong Kong last year – there WAS a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study!!! They found that the people that did not get the flu vaccine were 5,5X less likely to develop a respiratory illness. – link to this article and it’s interpretations here – http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/study-flu-vaccine-causes-5-5-times-more-respiratory-infections-a-true-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study/

      Note that the second green box from the end quotes the researchers stating that the shot provides influenza protection. Wrong.

      Look up OAS – the Original Antigenic Sin. It is proven that when you get a flu shot, the next time you are exposed to another flu shot or a wild influenza virus – your body then wastes energy fighting the last war: it makes antigens no longer needed as it pumps out worthless antigens for the flu shot you had previously. If you get more flu shots – you spend more biological energy producing more antigens for previous innoculations that are NOT the threat you are supposed to prioritize right now. This accounts for the Canadian Flu “Paradox” in which it has been statistically demonstrated that the more a population increases their flu shots, the more flu that population has. Go look it up. In fact i can’t find the article anymore, but a statistician at one point took every country in the world – looked up the vaccine compliance of that country, and compared it to the disease cases/outbreaks in that country. In every instance – the most vaccinated disease had the most cases of that disease.

      Kind of like the South Korea chicken pox history from 2005 until last year. In 2005 SK decided it needed to increase chicken pox vax rates. EVERY time they increased their vaccine compliance rates – the disease cases and outbreaks increased MORE. Currently they conclude they have about 97% vac compliance for the infants, and about 95% for the general population. And their chicken pox rate was triple the 2005 rate. So they were well above the mythical herd immunity level and unsurprisingly – NO HERD IMMUNITY AT ALL!

      So – to end this tome for now – the Science is sometimes fascinating and accurate, but then it is frequently just the forced justification for forced monetary expenditures following an economic pyramid into the pockets of the wealthy parasites that run the drug-pusher companies – which are pretty universally psychopathic and untrustworthy. Just look at how many years now – the vaccine JABBER crowd (vaxassination proponents) has stated that they took mercury out of (most) vaccines – unnecessarily because they had proof that it didn’t cause autism, but they did it to appease the “anti-vaxxer” crowd. (simplistic negative tag – thus my designating mindless acceptance of vaxassination as JABBERS) Well, the CDC has released information denying the validity of that claim. The statistics provided as “proof” of mercury not causing autism (continued increase in ASD since removal) is not evidence. It is statistics which does not take much into account….

      Well – it’s raining out here, and i need to feed my livestock, work on my countertop to put where i took out the kitchen wall (of course i built a beam in the attic to support the ceiling joists prior to taking out the bearing wall…) and built cabinets. If the weather gets NICE for a change – might clean some more wheat, do some runs into town, whatever. Hope things get nice here and hope you have a good day too.

      • Colin April 13, 2017 / 4:10 pm

        I’m very curious where you find these bizarre factoids. Do you really believe that no one knew the brain had a vascular system until recently? Or that there are no studies comparing vaxed and unvaxed children?

        • brad April 14, 2017 / 9:39 am

          The scientific community states that this became basically accepted as real about 2015 – the lymphatic system. Sorry i was in too much a hurry and typed vascular instead of lymphatic due to writing others about the vascular system in specific situations on another page. My bad.

          About 2015 they found that the brain had a virtually unknown LYMPHATIC system, and have also recently found that soil microbiology hitchhikes on macrophages to make it into the brain – where the soil biota literally influence biochemistry and perhaps even thought processes.

            • brad April 15, 2017 / 4:39 pm

              Let me point out that i responded to your good observation and correction. Yes, i mistyped vascular system – which you continue to rage against – but if you READ what i wrote is clearly states that the human brain was found to have a vascular system. This directly links the brain to the rest of the lymphatic system. It works most effectively if you lie on your side. During sleep (not sure which stage – REM?) the brain cells literally shrink and release toxins, which drain from the brain into the upper nasal passages, but this system is considered part of the lymphatic system.

              That was found out about two years ago – so any calculations about safety regarding domino effects from the immune system could not have taken this then unknown system into account.

              You also likely don’t know that about 30% of the messenger molecules are soil microbials – at least until i mentioned in in this thread – and that these messenger molecules are important for intercellular communication in many diseases. 30% come from soil. Some live in your brain and help keep you healthy if not alive – as in your intestines where 90% or so of the genetics in your body is from symbiotic probiotic flora. No flora? No you. That simple. So you aren’t a human – you are a symbiont or something. (me too, lol)

              Oh – and those helpful soil microbiota? They get into the brain piggybacking on macrophages to cross the blood brain barrier. Notably – this is exactly the sort of thing that the germ warfare of vaccines may kill off or imbalance with all those toxic poisons in vaccines….

              • Who's Your Daddy April 15, 2017 / 4:53 pm

                “This directly links the brain to the rest of the lymphatic system. It works most eff….”

                What in blazes, if you were even close to correct, do you think this has to do with vaccines?

                And when you answer, provide the evidence for your claims
                or we will just continue laugh at your ongoing barage of “biochemical” BS.

                On second thought, please don’t provide any evidence.
                This is all so much more entertaining without it!

                • brad April 17, 2017 / 9:33 am

                  Oh, let’s see. You JABBERS are phukking with the natural immune system and compromising it – have done so since before the 50s – and now we find a previously unknown portion OF that immune system – and so all your calculations about how the brain is or is not affected by the vaxassinations is NOT UNDERSTOOD IN THIS CONTEXT!!

                  Was that so hard? Part of the immune system NOT studied by the vax crowd can impact brain function and toxicity from your poisonous packages. But despite the fact that you pretend to “fix” a perfectly fine immune system design by screwing it up – you ignore the ramifications of at least 2 new known pathways into the brain – and pretend that your crapola can’t cause any problems.

                  walks away with fingers in ears singing la-la-la- la la la laaaah

                  You already ignore the fact that Genetics from aborted fetal tissues has been shown to become incorporated into YOUR genetics in developing human fetal cells when the mother is tricked into taking a shot – or the person (any age) has inflammation. Proven. Causing genetic changes including autoimmune issues….

                  The vax industry ignores so much, doesn’t research critical questions, pretends it’s damages don’t happen or matter, ir’s alleged effectiveness is partially fictitious, and you’ve endangered other segments of society so psychopathic drug pushers can make a “killing” financially and otherwise. You ignore the usage of vaccines to sterilize population, never have long-term vaccine outcome studies – a few months at most…Never study the DISEASE impact of vaccinated vs unvaccinated, pretend that antigens equate to “vaccine effectiveness” – they don’t…

                  • Jack Spratt April 18, 2017 / 8:38 am

                    The comment to which you are responding said, specifically, “And when you answer, provide the evidence for your claims.”

                    And your evidence for a single one of the claims in that scree is what?
                    Not only are you utterly free of any validly scientific evidence for any of your claims, you’ve even quit trying to back up your claims with random sciency-sounding terms or citations from blogs that stole from blogs that stole from blogs without a single biologically educated person among them.

                    On what basis, exactly, do you imagine that anyone should pay you any attention at all? Because you yell louder and more often.
                    Is that the basis on which you think public health policies should be made?

        • brad April 14, 2017 / 10:06 am

          The following is taken in part from Public Testimony of Dr. Heather Rice at the Vermont Department of Health hearing on Act 157, 10/19/2012:

          No true prospective, randomized and controlled study of health outcomes of vaccinated people versus unvaccinated has ever been conducted in the U.S. by CDC or any other agency in the 50 years or more of an accelerating schedule of vaccinations.

          However, a German study published in 2011 compared the health outcomes of 94 unvaccinated children versus 13,359 vaccinated children (Dtsch Arztebl Int. 2011 February; 108(7): 99–104.”Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents; Findings of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey for Children and Adolescents (KiGGS).” (pdf of article – reply#1 – reply#2 – reply#3 ). Because the number of unvaccinated children included in the analysis is so small, statistical evaluation is nearly impossible.

          This is what i meant. Just as in testimony in front of congress, the head of the CDC tried to dodge the question, but had to admit there has been no study (of the above nature) of vax/unvax patients has been done – despite congress having told them to DO so on multiple occasions.

          Here’s the entire article link – so read it and see something that goes contrary to what you are showing in the above link. Please also note that there are MDs who have practiced for 40 years, with over 35,000 patients – and this particular naturopath has never vaccinated his patients and has zero patients with autism – and let’s not forget that there are many OTHER types of damage from vaccines too. If not, the govt would not have paid out over $3,000,000,000 in “awards” for proven vaccine caused damages.
          http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/science/studies-comparing-vaccinated-to-unvaccinated-populations/
          Enjoy the Salzburg study and the others.

          • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 3:31 pm

            Take a look at this for a listing of the citations for many of the Large studies of vaccinated vs unvaccinated children.
            If you want to argue about any one of those studies in the citations, please quote the original source, the scientific journal article cited, so that we can know that you actually looked at it, whether or not you understood it.

            thoughtscapism.com/vaccines

      • Notnearlyanonymous April 13, 2017 / 10:26 pm

        So many things wrong with this comment comma all the way to vocabulary and grammar, that I would need a book. Wait. I know one.
        Immunology.
        Try that book instead of blogs from people who never graduated high school biology.

    • brad April 13, 2017 / 11:37 am

      i subcontracted milion dollar houses in SW Colorado in the 2000s. Pagosa Springs stopped fluoridating their water – because IT WAS KILLING HORSES.

      • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 3:33 pm

        Let’s be clear:
        You post not citations to original sources, because they don’t exist.

        • brad April 15, 2017 / 4:31 pm

          Try this. i used to have about 10,000 hard copy articles in the 90s – left them with my co-op when i moved to SW Colo to build there. (sun worked there but not at the Canadian border in Minnesota) There were/are studies in which higher levels of cavities are found in the fluoridated towns. A Canadian study found the lowest level of dental caries were in unfluoridated communities. When Grand Rapids Michigan became the first town to fluoridate, the senior centers/old folks/nursing homes had about an 80% increase in mortality until the susceptible died off in a few months…That was in an old magazine called Search For Health – which was always spot-on, but is no longer published as far as i can find out…

          http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/salud_fluor27.htm

          i don’t think any hyperlinks work here anymore…sorry.

          • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 4:39 pm

            Biblioteca Pléyades? Are you fucking kidding me?
            XDDDDDDD For the FSM’s sake, that is what you have beside your mythical 10000 articles?
            From all the conspiracy sites you could choose a you chose Biblioteca Pléyades?
            Ok, you have earned your look card. Nothing you write means anything anymore.
            Mira que hay sitios estúpidos para escoger…

          • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 4:40 pm

            Biblioteca Pléyades? Are you fucking kidding me?
            XDDDDDDD For the FSM’s sake, that is what you have beside your mythical 10000 articles?
            From all the conspiracy sites you could choose a you chose Biblioteca Pléyades?
            Ok, you have earned your kook card. Nothing you write means anything anymore.
            Mira que hay sitios estúpidos para escoger…

            • brad April 15, 2017 / 4:51 pm

              So obviously you aren’t intelligent enough to read enough of the article to look at the definitions of the and sources of hexafluorosilicic acid, or sodium silicofluoride – by products of phosphate mining. Toxic condensates of gasses from the sulfuric acid to separate the fluoride from the phoshpate for fertilizer production. Condensed in wet scrubbers. Toxic according to the EPA.

              This is pretty much the same stuff that killed the cattle of the Iriquois Tribe in the 70s as these fluoride gasses drifted across the St Lawrence Seaway, landed on tribal lands – and since fluoride is bad for bones and teeth – the cows legs broke, at which point the kind of grunted around like giant slugs until their teeth broke out – if they weren’t found early enough to put out of their misery.

              The fluoride was SO toxic and deposited so heavily that they cannot grow any food on their land still. From the 70s.

              But YOU are going to sit here and state that a paper which does contain verifiable references, and actual points of knowledge is unreadable because the site apparently goes too woo-woo for you.

              Such generalizations are why people like you need to meet the left foot of Darwin. That same automatic lumping of everyone and everything into one messy mass is making you think that every vaccine is safe for every person every time – regardless of their age, weight, gender, health, or any other consideration. That is so biochemically retarded as to be laughable – but when we individuals wanting personal and individual differences recognized question the last assumption – we are denigrated as being out of bounds and irrelevant. Well Phuk U.

              Tantrum over. Maybe BPleyadies or whatever has articles you might not like – but you obviously didn’t read this. No talk about martians forcing fluoride on you, no spiritual frequencies of fluoride and it’s affects upon the chakra system…. Get a grip, read the article, address facts instead of the petty fears of a tiny, uncontrolled mind, okay? Maybe Biblioteca scared you as an infant and you can’t allow it near you now, who cares. The article stands on it’s own merits.

              • Notnearlyanonymous April 15, 2017 / 4:55 pm

                “Tantrum over.”

                Oh, we all know that’s not true.

                • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 4:59 pm

                  Of course not.

              • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 4:57 pm

                No, dear. You just proved that you are willing to bring any trash that agrees with your delusions. For fuck’s sake, Biblioteca Pléyades has been the laughingstock of Spanish conspiracy sites for years.
                Instead of real articles you can only refer us to UFO-supporting conspiracy sites. XDDDDDDD

                • brad April 15, 2017 / 5:04 pm

                  So you’re kind of like “That person is talking to a gay person, so they are gay. Since i’m homophobic i refuse to talk to that person at all.”

                  Again – you did not read THE ARTICLE – your mind is stuck on the vehicle that has it – probably just the first one i bumped into with that article. Other articles are all over the everywhere – but you didn’t like the car that the person got out of – so you are saying they are not even a person.

                  How narrow minded can one get? CAN’T possibly judge the article on what it says….. No that would take intellectual integrity and the ability to differentiate message from messenger, from location of messenger….

                  Maybe you just aren’t having a good day. Sorry for that.

                  • MaGaO April 15, 2017 / 5:18 pm

                    No, I’m the kind of guy who knows the difference between News of the World and real news, the difference between a trash web like Biblioteca Pléyades and real scientific articles.
                    Unfortunately, you don’t know the difference and are too far gone to be helped. I would feel pity for you, but you expended your allotment long ago. Now I just wait to see what kind of new trainwreck you manage to pull.

                    • allison wolf April 15, 2017 / 5:29 pm

                      Hey! Get your own popcorn.
                      That’s mine!!

                    • brad April 17, 2017 / 9:24 am

                      Again you prove your mind to be closed and tiny. The ARTICLE (not the source) makes comment on your water usually having hexafluorosilicic acid, and sodium silicofluoride put into it. There are links to this. There links to the EPA proving these to be toxic – but you ignore INFORMATION and shoot Gandhi as he climbs from the vehicle because it wasn’t a phukken Mercedes. Oooh. Clever. Site is IRRELEVANT to content dear.

                      We are talking about CONTENT here – and again – you show no intellectual integrity in looking at what was actually stated, but commit an ad hominem attack against the site – and because it was something i linked – you commit ad hominem attacks against me.

                      Not a big deal. But you might want to ask why you didn’t refute the points in the article – couldn’t because they are true – or too lazy to look at the heart of the matter when it’s so much easier to be mentally sluggish and avoid the SUBJECT altogether and whine “Biblioteca Pleyades.

                    • neverconfusedbylogic April 18, 2017 / 8:46 am

                      site is relevant, dear, when the site can’t/won’t tell you from where they got the information so that you can check for yourself on their sources.
                      But since you’ve been doing the same throughout this conversation, refusing (more likely unable) to provide citation for any of your claims, it’s really not surprising that you don’t recognize the problem when it’s committed by others.

              • Jack Spratt April 15, 2017 / 5:03 pm

                “The article stands on it’s own merits.”

                Yes, that’s exactly all it has to stand on, because it has no merits
                and it does not link to a single original source
                and right at the top it says it was taken (stolen) from another blog by people who know nothing of biology.

                But, please, tell us why you believed a word of that blog (it’s not an article).

                • brad April 15, 2017 / 10:27 pm

                  Try this one – fluoride killing cows, people, plants….

                  http://www.primitivism.com/fluoride.htm

                  Seventy-eight references – old school, not links. Good article and more comprehensive than any other i’ve read – even the old Search For Health article which ehoed some of this information with other stuff added.

                  • Notnearlyanonymous April 16, 2017 / 12:05 am

                    Well, here we are, 20 or 30 of your comments in, and you finally begin to understand the point about references.

                    Yes, that article about flouride (not vaccines, which is the subject of this entire blog post) has something akin to footnotes. They are not actually footnotes according to any professional style, and as a result, nearly impossible to follow.

                    Did you, brad, try utilizing any of those footnotes to read the original sources? I already know the answer.
                    Let’s look at a few of the points from the article and the citations used to support those points, shall we?
                    I’m going to post my responses in all caps just to separate them visually, since italics is not available in this format (or, if it is, I don’t know how to use it). I mean no yelling.

                    “Mohawk children, too, have shown signs of damage to bones and teeth.(2)”
                    2. The pollution continues today, but at reduced levels; cows survive to about half their normal life spans.
                    THAT’S NOT A CITATION. THAT’S A LINE HE FORGOT TO PUT INTO THE ARTICLE.

                    “4. Karen st. Hilaire, “St. Regis Indians to Settle Fluonde Dispute” Syracuse Post-Standard, January 8, 1985.”
                    DON’T YOU THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD IF THE AUTHOR SPELLED FLOURIDE CORRECTLY?

                    “Fluoride was the pollutant primarily responsible for the Akwesasne devastation.(5)”
                    5. See also accounts cited above for further documentation.
                    SORRY, THAT’S NOT A FOOTNOTE OR CITATION OF ANY KIND.
                    THIS WOULD GET A FAILING GRADE FROM ANY COMPETENT 9TH GRADE TEACHER.

                    At Akwesasne, cows still live only half their normal lifespan.6
                    6. Author’s 1992 interview with F. Henry Lickers,op cit.
                    IF THAT’S REALLY FROM A PERSONAL INTERVIEW (WHICH WE CAN’T CHECK, CAN WE?) WHY DIDN’T HE USE THAT TO SUBSTANTIATE THE LINE THAT HE USE AS FOOTNOTE #2?
                    THIS GUY HAS NEVER RECEIVED ANY PROOFREADING FOR A CITED RESEARCH PAPER, EVEN AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, AT THE TIME THIS WAS PRODUCED, HAS HE?

                    “8. John Yiamouviannis, Lifesaver’s Guide to Fluoridation (Delaware Ohio: Safe Water Foundation, 1983), p. 1”
                    This pamphlet cited 250 references that supposedly backed up Yiamouyiannis’s claims that fluoridation is ineffective and dangerous. However, almost half had no relevance to community water fluoridation and many others actually supported fluoridation
                    “see also D. Rose and J.R. Maner “Environmental Fiuonde,” National Research Council of Canada Publication Number NRCC 16081,1977.”
                    No, Rose and Maner did not write the NRCC report. False citation and, again, couldn’t spell “flouride.”

                    Enginering and Cost Effectiveness Study of Fluoride Emissions Control, U.S. EPA repon, Volume 1, Number SN 16893.000, January 1972, p. 1-3, et seq.

                    Again, can’t spell. “Repon” =/= “report.” This looks to have been written 20+ years ago, but couldn’t be spell checked?

                    You didn’t read the paper or the citations, did you?
                    If you did read it, explain how you missed all this, please.

                    Now, how about you provide some sources (hopefully, better than these) for all your (so far) unverified claims about vaccines.

                    Since you keep using the words “biochemical,” “biochemistry,” and “biochemically,” please explain how those sources that you cite “biochemically” support your claim.

          • j April 15, 2017 / 6:34 pm

            Of those 10k articles you had (yeah, we’re believing you, sure we are),
            you’d think maybe you could find just 10 or 20 on PubMed to back up your claims.
            You’d think that, right?

            • brad April 16, 2017 / 9:21 pm

              Let’s see, five feet long at least of Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, a few feet of Search for Health, Three different herbal research magazines (the sort of studies in the Werbach book series – two encyclopedic volumes of double blind studies proving beneficial effects of herbs and a third volume of things to NOT combine – either other herbs, medicines, or vitamins/supplements. Probably 40 or more issues of a Health Newsletter mostly dealing with chemical sensitivities and chemical biochemical interactions. Hell, the formaldehyde symptoms alone, when spaced in typical novel sized font, in the format of symptom, comma, space, symptom, comma, space – the symptoms for formaldehyde toxicity symptoms alone took up 2 pages of 8-1/2X11 paper. Taken from chemical studies, toxicology studies, industrial tables, medical studies, etc.
              There were other magazines also, plus about 300 books from rare ones like the 1968 “Hyperbaric Oxygen, the Uncertain Miracle”. That was published, on the shelves for 3 weeks, and disappeared. Pain Pain Go Away – by Dr Wm J Faber out of Madison Wisconsin. An Osteopath(?) who used (not all do) reconstructive therapy, formerly called prolotherapy to have MUCH better results in treating carpal tunnel syndrome, slipped/crushed vertebrae, disks, herniated disks, etc. Arthritis, and more – WAY better success rates than MDs and drugs. Left for Dead – just hundreds of books – and of course i had additional books on what MDs did – and found out that most “standards of care” actually are damaging.

              Currently MDs do the wrong thing almost every time for stomach acidity (more than 99.9% of the time with antacids) Gall bladder surgery, cancer, mammograms, alzheimers, hepatitis – well not the wrong thing – they just don’t rebuild them like they should. Multiple Sclerosis, – almost everything they touch is just “hide symptoms. Make more problems. Hide those symptoms”

              And of course – our friend – vaxassination.

              • Notnearlyanonymous April 16, 2017 / 11:51 pm

                So, your answer is “No,” you can’t find 10-20 PubMed indexed citations of any of your claimed 10k publications you “forgot” to take along in your move.
                I think we understand. No, I’m sure we understand you now.

                • brad April 17, 2017 / 9:15 am

                  Okay – so 1997 you read a specific article. From among at least 10 magazines and among hundreds of other articles you had read in the last few months.

                  Exactly what was that article, who wrote it, and where is it filed?

                  Oh – and Pub Med? You mean the place that censors things which do not fit it’s HPV/Gardasil agenda? That Pub Med – where the professor that called a pro-HPV vaccine advocate on his disingenuous article on it’s properties was called on it, refuted, and the refutations were all removed?

                  You mean that paragon of “pure science”? Sure – Let’s ask Dr Lee….

                  • Richard Daggett April 17, 2017 / 9:44 am

                    I don’t know why so many people have written to refute your anti vaccination posts. Nothing any person posts has changed your opinion. It is obvious that you are not open to facts, or you are a troll who happens to enjoy this never ending argument.

                    • Chris April 17, 2017 / 2:46 pm

                      Which is why I am ignoring him. He just regurgitates brain dead anti-vax tropes that have been debunked a long time ago.

                  • notnearlyanonymous April 18, 2017 / 8:28 am

                    So your answer is still, “No,”
                    out of the 10k articles your claim to have had to prove your points, you cannot find a single one via all the search engines that are available.
                    Got it. Why you thought it would help your cause to state, again, that you can’t find a single morsel of this treasure trove of anti-vaccine science that supposedly once had, none of us will ever know.
                    But you keep on keeping on not finding them. That’ll certainly convince everyone.

                    • brad April 18, 2017 / 10:00 pm

                      Give it a shot yourself. Find an article that you read in the mid-90s and go find it. On a site that i choose to accept – which means not Pub Med – since they censor conflicting views on vaccines…

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 18, 2017 / 10:41 pm

                      PubMed censors conflicting views on vaccines, huh?

                      Got any evidence for That claim (as if you’ve produced evidence for any of your claims)?

                    • Jack Spratt April 18, 2017 / 10:56 pm

                      I read an article in the 90s about treating eating disorders by a professor at the Univ of New Mexico. That’s all I remember.

                      I wonder if we can find it.

                      Um, yes!

                      Now you said you had 10k, but you can’t think of enough key words from any of those 10k to find even one.

                      Face it: at this point,
                      even you don’t believe you.

                    • Jmac April 18, 2017 / 11:56 pm

                      This is one of the great threads I have had the pleasure of reading. I appreciate everyone supporting peer reviewed science. As for Brad, I’m curious if you really believe that a government indexing system of peer reviewed articles (PubMed) is censoring articles? Do you really think the federal government is in the business of picking and choosing from the thousands of article published every year so they can remove the “anti-vaccine” articles? Why would they do this and who is responsible? I’m genuinely curious.

                    • Chris April 19, 2017 / 12:07 am

                      Aw, shucks. I ran out of popcorn.

                      It has been very amusing watching Brad bring out every other bit of nonsense that has been posted on teh internets.

                    • Notnearlyanonymous April 19, 2017 / 12:16 am

                      Just to make you jealous:

                      I have Jiffy Pop
                      AND I have a stove.

                    • Chris April 19, 2017 / 1:16 am

                      I only have an air popper. But I have a microwave and access to lots of butter!

                      😉

                    • Chris April 19, 2017 / 1:20 am

                      Oooops… family shortcut: we have a microwave oven to melt butter.

                      Though in retrospect I should have used last generation actual family shortcut: the micro-oven to melt the butter.

                      😉

  13. Anonymous April 8, 2017 / 4:02 pm

    As someone who watched a member of her family have several problems because of secondary infections and also an immune deficentcy i can’t remind people that just because you’ve had a virus doesnt mean that its over. Currently my husband is battling leukimia and has to undergo a bone marrow transplant. Any and i mean any infection could be fatal currently. So it angers me when people say that its not their problem when they choose not to vaccinate their children. Your child with chicken pox could kill someone in declining health(which in anyother situation would be concidered manslaughter in anyother situation. And neglect for child safety if it was food or shelter). How would anyone feel to watch the one they love suffer through any of that. What will it take for thoes heartless enough to finally vaccinate they’re defensless children? I will not recind the heartless statement and before anyone asks yes i have children of my own.

    • Gewisn April 8, 2017 / 4:39 pm

      Thank you for sharing that.
      You’re exactly right, of course.

      Just yesterday, I was asked, “You get the flu shot? Why? Every time I got it, it made me sick.”
      I told him that I get the flu shot every year because it reduces my chances of transmitting the flu.

      “The flu shot can give you some aches and a little fever, but that’s just the proof that you immune system is recognizing the flu shot and creating immunity. That isn’t the flu, but the exact right reaction from your immune system. You can’t get the flu from the flu shot. But you can feel icky for just a couple of days. But you will not get the infection that makes you feel like you were hit by a truck and wish that maybe you’ll get lucky and die.

      I’d survive the flu. But in the first days of my flu infection, before I even have any symptoms,when the virus is replicating inside me like crazy, I’ll infect a few other people, who will each infect a few other people.
      I refuse to be the one who started that chain that eventually infected someone who won’t survive the flu.
      Someone who has cancer, someone with leukemia, someone with AIDS, or a little baby.
      I refuse to be the person that even might cause that chain of events to happen.”

      He slow-blinked twice and said, “I never thought about it like that.”

      This man with a serious psychotic illness for the last 40 years, that’s put him in and out of clinics, hospitals, jails and prisons for majority of his life, he got it.

      • Clairbear April 10, 2017 / 8:34 pm

        Love that explanation of why you get the flu shot, thank you. I hear that question re why I get the flu shot every year followed by the excuse that they got sick one year so don’t have the jab anymore, or that they (and their kids!) are healthy so they don’t need it. I’m going to try and remember your words for this season of flu shots.

      • brad April 13, 2017 / 11:36 am

        Magically, the flu shot (as you point out for those getting sick from it) shortens the flu episode by several hours. Not worth it – when you risk Guillain Barre’ Syndrome, death, increased chance of respiratory illness (5.5 X more likely than unvaccinated in Hong Kong vax vs NON-vax study last year) and decreased immune function.
        Look up the proven Original Antigenic Sin – and how it reduces your immune response from having multiple flu shots….(or others)

    • brad April 13, 2017 / 10:50 am

      First – since the US adult population has essentially always been unvaccinated – there are no massive outbreaks from not vaccinating. Period. Undeniable. WHERE ARE THEY? We were told 60 years ago that vaccines were “immunity” producing – they NEVER are – at best they have TEMPORARY protection for SOME of the people taking vaccines. In the real world about 40%-60% of those vaccinated don’t develop protection – couple that with the people who are not vaccinated – and you have an unvaccinated adult population, which has not caused epidemics of any of the infectious diseases. It is always limited outbreaks – which seem to be unaffected by vaccination – in fact in most outbreaks now – the greater majority of those infected were vaccinated to never get the disease that they JUST CAUGHT!

      How’s that working for you?

      Secondly – to assume that people who do NOT do somehing thereby produce an effect – ie. continuing to not vaccinate suddenly CAUSES the appearance or attraction of random and massive amounts of pathogens – is biochemically ignorant. People that do not vaccinate are NOT automatically carrying those diseases – and you need to ask yourself HOW – if they are carrying all these diseases – those unvaccinated people can be both carrying those diseases and not be catching those diseases. That means their immune system functions better than the immune system of people that are vaccinated!!! Surely you don’t want to concede THAT (even though it is true) so you have to recognize that people that are unvaccinated are absolutely NO more likely to be carrying pathogens than the vaccinated people. The chance of a virus/bacteria landing on one is as great as the other.

      Until you recognize that the vaccinated are going into sickness vectors to get jabbed – doctor’s offices with that coughing kid in the corner, the pre-fever one in the corner – and HOSPITALS- the largest collection of disease you can find probably. Where 70% of US hospitals have had antibiotic resistant Pneumonia since the 90s – and hospitals are too damn stupid to use ozonation in their air supply to kill bacteria, viruses, and fungi…

      So who IS the greatest danger to your husband (sorry to hear about his problems) It is people who have received the live and attenuated virus vaccines, because they shed live viruses by the millions usually starting about two weeks, and continuing for weeks. There are known cases though, in which vaccinated people are proven to carry live vaccine viruses (occasionally shedding) for years – and in one known case a person in the polio region above Pakistan was shown to have the VACCINE polio version, maintained alive in their blood and body more than 20 years later.

      So the immune threat to your husband is much LESS from the unvaccinated people than from the vaccinated – who for this reason are generally forbidden from visiting chemo patients and those with immunosuppressive drugs or damaged systems….

      i truly hope your husband recovers, this is horrible – have lost way too many people to cancer, but my main gripe is chemo – not your husband’s therapy, thankfully. The Journal of Clinical Oncology in 2005 compared ALL chemo and ALL cancers (instead of cherry picking them) to find the 5yr survival rate of all chemo/cancer.

      It turns out to be a 5yr death sentence 97.9% of the time. PLEASE avoid that, there are better alternatives.

  14. Anonymous April 12, 2017 / 5:13 am

    Hahaha this article is a JOKE. Where are the facts??

    • Jennifer Raff April 12, 2017 / 6:24 am

      Those blue words are hyperlinks to the research papers supporting each point I made.

      • Patrick McDonald April 13, 2017 / 9:41 pm

        Heed not the rattle of such empty cans. 🙂

  15. brad April 26, 2017 / 2:04 pm

    So force me to be more long winded (and grammatically correct, thanks i guess) you inject antigens with your toxic vaxassinations. This elicits the “antigen response” in SOME people – WHICH IS ANTIBODIES – Duh. Guess i shouldn’t have assumed you’d just put the two together.

    So you can still have agammaimmunoglobulinaemia and never make any antibodies – so your ANTIGEN RESPONSE IS DEAD FROM VACCINES OR DISEASE and you STILL can cure yourself of your disease and infection. The basic point STILL HOLDS TRUE.

    Either way – it shows that healing is NOT dependent upon antigen response – antibodies – alone, and antibodies are pretty much an allergic response. So perhaps your “vaccine effectiveness” measurement is really just showing how you are developing an allergic response to the poisons you are shoving – unnaturally, and in a manner damaging to the immune system – into the victims of your flawed vaccine theory.

    • Jmac April 26, 2017 / 3:28 pm

      Science is a language of precision. Here is what you said, “Forget that in the middle of the last century, doctors found out about agammaglobulinaemia – where these people CANNOT MAKE ANY ANTIGENS AT ALL.” You did not say “Where these people cannot make any antibodies at all” which would be the correct and precise way to discuss this subject. You also did not say “Where people cannot make any antigen response at all” which might be correct if you are being careful to talk about the antibody response to antigens; however, this does not address the “antigen response” (as you like to say) elicited by either helper or cytotoxic T cells which will certainly respond to antigens (hence their own “antigen response”). Your lack of precision here makes this confusing to the reader.

      It’s also not entirely clear what point you are making exactly. Agammaglobulinemia is an inheritable genetic disease and is quite rare (about 1 in 200,000 live births), often affecting males since it is usually X linked. Contrary to what you assert, agammaglobulinemia results in recurrent infections, most commonly with pyogenic bacterial infections, some of which can be quite severe. Do affected individuals clear these infections? Sometimes, but this means these people experience recurrent otitis media, sinusitis, and pneumonia, none of which are pleasant and some of which are life threatening. The best treatment is passive transfer of antibodies from other people intravenously (IVIG) which is incredibly expensive and short lived. Also antibiotics can be used to treat recurrent infections but can cause their own side effects.

      “antibodies are pretty much an allergic response” – while antibodies certainly do cause allergic responses, it is more complicated than that. As explained above, people who lack antibodies are susceptible to recurrent bacterial infections which are not what would usually be considered an allergic response. More precisely, hypersensitivity is used to discuss allergy. I presume what you are talking about is Type 1 immediate hypersensitivity, mediated by the IgE antibody isotope and is the “classic” allergy response most people think of when they think of allergies. Type 3 hypersensitivity can involves immune complexes of predominantly IgG which can cause some allergic type symptoms but would not be associated with the classic “allergy”. Type 3 is more closely linked with autoimmune diseases such as lupus or rheumatoid arthritis.

      If in the future you want to talk down to me: “This elicits the “antigen response” in SOME people – WHICH IS ANTIBODIES – Duh. Guess i shouldn’t have assumed you’d just put the two together.”, I would appreciate it if A) you were more precise and B) you had some clue what you were talking about. Also, a class would still benefit you in this discussion.

      • brad April 27, 2017 / 2:03 pm

        i really do appreciate your elucidation.

        i do also maintain that since the point i was making was in regards to people with (i misspelled it, dammut) agammaimmunoglobulinaemia was that they have recovered – just like people without this problem – from vaccine diseases, that the determination of one’s needing antigen response is in fact fallacious. These people had no antibodies to respond to the antigens and had no issues healing from the diseases.

        That they may have other issues regarding other means of infections becomes irrelevant to the discussion regarding vaccine good and bad points.

        As for the pyogenic infections you mention – yes earaches recur in some immune compromised people – notably the vaccinated, since ear infections (otitis media) are MUCH more prevalent in vaccinated children than they are in unvaccinated children. As are sinus issues – although i don’t think i’ll go so far as to blame pneumonia on the vaccines. There IS a problem with antibiotic resistant pneumonia residing in over 70% of US hospitals – and since the vaccinated are about 5X more likely to need a hospital visit their exposure undoubtedly would be worse.

        As for antibiotic usage – yes there are problems, and the resistance of some of the pathogens through mutations like the whooping cough bacteria, MRSA resistant issues from antibiotic overuse is NOT a good thing. That’s what happens though, when the CAFOs put so much antibiotics in their animals in their congenitally diseased operations. That makes resistance – and we of course can’t forget that virtually EVERY GMO is programmed to have antibiotic resistance.

        i had a staphylococcus infection on my foot – had to wear sandals/flip-flops for awhile. Got the strongest antibiotic they could prescribe that wasn’t a “last-gasp-kill-your-liver” sort of drug. Took it EXACTLY as told for the whole duration. In two days after finishing the regimen – the infection was WORSE than when i started.

        Walking across the farmyard one day – a visitor walked past and said (without stopping, lol) “Looks like you need goldenseal and echinacea root”…

        Well – my local chiropractor did herbs – good quality ones – and i got those two herbal products. Goldenseal being such a strong antibiotic that you don’t want to use it over 14 days. Echinacea root being a blood purifier. By the 2nd day the open sore was virtually gone – but i kept to the same regimen as the antibiotic i was given. i never did have any more problems with that infection.

        Many herbs are MUCH more effective than pharmaceuticals and seldom have the nasty side-effects. i guess what i’m saying is that if one educates their self on the natural remedies they could get rid of each of those infections. Ozone generating machine/air purifier would destroy pneumonia. The weakly held valence in the third Oxygen atom lets it split off and that kills any fungus, bacteria, and virus it comes in contact with. Period. Breaks down toxins too. Food poisoning? Take some Neem tea or capsules and your stomach WILL feel better within five minutes based upon personal experience (less than 2 minutes for it to feel GOOD) and friends experience with fish-based food poisoning – less than 3 minutes.

        There are OTHER solutions than vaccines – and if we think about it for those rare ones who can’t make antibodies – the vaccine won’t help then anyway. Yet when vaccines are NOT effective on 95% of the people – more like 40 – 60% of them, then there are other modalities of the immune system keeping people going, no?

        • MaGaO April 27, 2017 / 2:25 pm

          “i really do appreciate your elucidation.”
          And yet you won’t learn from it.
          “i do also maintain that since the point i was making was in regards to people with (i misspelled it, dammut) agammaimmunoglobulinaemia was that they have recovered – just like people without this problem – from vaccine diseases, that the determination of one’s needing antigen response is in fact fallacious.”
          Case in point: you have been told several times that antibody response is not the only method or bodies have to fight infection. You insist on ignoring this fact.
          “These people had no antibodies to respond to the antigens and had no issues healing from the diseases.”
          Except that you have been told that they actually had issues like a higher rate of recurrence of infections. And you have ignored it.
          “That they may have other issues regarding other means of infections becomes irrelevant to the discussion regarding vaccine good and bad points.”
          Except it is not irrelevant: it is critical to show that the few people suffering from agammaglobulinemia are not relevant enough to support your denial of the immunization effect of vaccines through antibody response.
          “As for the pyogenic infections you mention – yes earaches recur in some immune compromised people – notably the vaccinated, since ear infections (otitis media) are MUCH more prevalent in vaccinated children than they are in unvaccinated children.”
          Unsourced, as usual.
          “As are sinus issues – although i don’t think i’ll go so far as to blame pneumonia on the vaccines.”
          Please do.
          “There IS a problem with antibiotic resistant pneumonia residing in over 70% of US hospitals – and since the vaccinated are about 5X more likely to need a hospital visit their exposure undoubtedly would be worse.”
          Unsourced and blatantly false: antibiotic resistance is due mainly to incomplete antibiotic treatments, something less likely to happen in hospitals.
          “As for antibiotic usage – yes there are problems, and the resistance of some of the pathogens through mutations like the whooping cough bacteria, MRSA resistant issues from antibiotic overuse is NOT a good thing.”
          And it is irrelevant. As usual you go on a rambling digression.
          “That’s what happens though, when the CAFOs put so much antibiotics in their animals in their congenitally diseased operations. That makes resistance – and we of course can’t forget that virtually EVERY GMO is programmed to have antibiotic resistance.”
          Since you do not know how GMOs antibiotic resistance works, you write nonsense like what I just quoted.
          “i had a staphylococcus infection on my foot – had to wear sandals/flip-flops for awhile. Got the strongest antibiotic they could prescribe that wasn’t a “last-gasp-kill-your-liver” sort of drug. Took it EXACTLY as told for the whole duration. In two days after finishing the regimen – the infection was WORSE than when i started.”
          Your testimony is anecdotal, and hardly trustworthy.
          “Walking across the farmyard one day – a visitor walked past and said (without stopping, lol) “Looks like you need goldenseal and echinacea root”…”
          There we go again.
          “Well – my local chiropractor did herbs – good quality ones – and i got those two herbal products. Goldenseal being such a strong antibiotic that you don’t want to use it over 14 days. Echinacea root being a blood purifier.”
          Because you needed your blood “purified”. #facepalm
          “By the 2nd day the open sore was virtually gone – but i kept to the same regimen as the antibiotic i was given. i never did have any more problems with that infection.”
          And, of course, it was the berberine that fixed it.
          “Many herbs are MUCH more effective than pharmaceuticals and seldom have the nasty side-effects.”
          Read about Aristolochia genus and its use in traditional chinese medicine.
          “i guess what i’m saying is that if one educates their self on the natural remedies they could get rid of each of those infections.”
          Or not. Since you pay do much attention to anecdotal evidence, remember that Bob Marley died because he didn’t want to treat an infected toe that became cancerous.
          “Ozone generating machine/air purifier would destroy pneumonia. The weakly held valence in the third Oxygen atom lets it split off and that kills any fungus, bacteria, and virus it comes in contact with. Period.”
          No, not period: comma at best because it also attacks our cells. But you think magically so you ignore details like that.
          “Breaks down toxins too. Food poisoning? Take some Neem tea or capsules and your stomach WILL feel better within five minutes based upon personal experience (less than 2 minutes for it to feel GOOD) and friends experience with fish-based food poisoning – less than 3 minutes.”
          Based on your abundant medical knowledge. Oh, wait…

          .”There are OTHER solutions than vaccines – and if we think about it for those rare ones who can’t make antibodies – the vaccine won’t help then anyway.”
          Actually they do: an immunodepressed person will not have to deal with a contagious disease if everyone else around them is immune. As when vaccinated.
          ” Yet when vaccines are NOT effective on 95% of the people – more like 40 – 60% of them, then there are other modalities of the immune system keeping people going, no?”
          Unsourced again. And, as usual, I highly doubt you can provide anything but blogs is worse (like Biblioteca Pléyades)

          • brad April 28, 2017 / 10:03 pm

            Quick one – how is Marley’s not taking care of his toe – using natural healing in any manner whatsoever?
            Ozone machine – use one to get rid of walking pneumonia years ago, and know people who had emphysema for so many years that their meds no longer worked – as happens – and they were drowning in the bacterial excretions in their lungs. Took a neighbor’s ozone machine home – had first full night’s sleep in 9 YEARS. Bought their own. After 2 yrs was diagnosed with asthsma with 95% lung efficiency.
            i’ve used it to get rid of mineral spirits that went through my nitrile gloves while cleaning out oil-based paint. Put the machine on high – within 2 minutes it eliminated the smell totally. Had a neighbor get fuel oil over 3 inches deep in her concrete basement – used the ozone machine for 3 weeks and got rid of the smell.

            i wonder if you are being purposely obtuse. i am NOT arguing that people who can’t make antigens are HEALTHIER than Joe and JoAnne Suburbia – the studies are stating that DESPITE this handicap they are still curing theirselves of measles, mumps, etc without the “antigen response” of antibodies. So obviously some other aspect of the natural immune system is functioning to save them from these usually mild and mostly harmless diseases. So that means that regardless of how you slice it – antigen response as a measure of effectiveness for fighting illness is NOT the only modality leading to a cure.

            This means that defining vaccines as effective because of antigen response is at best a part of the disease/cure situation. This means that one does NOT have to have a vaccine in order to defeat diseases. Do they help? Maybe sometimes in some people – and if you want them by all means feel free to shoot up to your heart’s content.

            But to imply that ONLY an antigen response via antibodies is the effective means to stay healthy is obviously disproven by these people. To imply that actually implies that the human race died out thousands of years ago due to measles and crap because Thog and Morgunk the cavemen didn’t have any vaccines…

            Ozone used with the correct delivery system, in the correct dosage kills fungi, bacteria, viruses, and breaks down toxins. (doubt heavy metals, lol) You can whine about “anecdotal evidence” but the truth is that when Merck murdered tens of thousands of people with heart disease by giving them VIOXX to help them NOT have their death – Merck KNEW they were going to kill people – and kept that research hidden for over ten years.

            So ANECDOTALLY – MDs on their own, figured out that their VIOXX patients were dying off at an alarming rate. So this anecdotal evidence added up to proof, the deceit of Merck – one of your TRUSTED VAX MFGRS – was brought to court and given a light slap on the wrist and a hearty “Tsk-tsk”. Nothing serious.

            You want to discount anecdotal evidence – okay. Next time you go to your doctor, don’t tell him what’s wrong with you. Don’t communicate with him in any way, through any intercessory person, through any medium at all.

            Let him just guess what the hell is wrong with you, where do you hurt, what are your symptoms – and see if he gets it right without all your anecdotal waste.

            Have a good evening. Outta here for the night.

            • michael vlachos April 29, 2017 / 4:45 am

              Giving a list of symptoms is nothing at all like anecdotal evidence. Telling your Doc, I’ve had a cough for 4 day, it’s dry, and nothing comes up. Plus I have difficulty swallowing at nigh isn’t an anecdote. https://www.google.com/search?q=Anecdote&oq=Anecdote&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2648j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 However you telling us that some one you know who had those symptoms, was cured by breathing magic crystal dust through tulip leaves is an Anecdote. There is a huge difference.

              Leave the medicine to the professionals. I kid you not, they know more about it than you do.

              • brad May 3, 2017 / 5:39 pm

                It is not anecdotal to you because you experienced it. Therefore you know your reality.

                This is exactly like my experiences with my ozone machines, my staphyloccus infection, my licorice root for Hep B acting up, etc. i’ve seen all these things help. Thus they are not anecdotal.

                Now – magically, when someone has an “alternative” healing event – the MDs and their mindless followers jump all over them and state that this is anecdotal. Oh – that person had stage IV terminal lung cancer which metastasized to their lymph and liver – then they took “a few” bitter almonds and in four months their cancer was totally gone and they never had any more after that. Since this is THAT person’s experience – it is our anecdotal story – and it is looked at with total skepticism by the medical professionals who would lose a ton of money if people knew how much better and safer the bitter almonds (and other natural healing modalities) are over chemo, radiation, and most surgeries. So they disparage “anecdotal evidence” as worthless.

                Yet your anecdote – your story – about how you feel, your symptoms, etc – that has validity when diagnosed. It is not very honest to assume that EVERY anecdotal story which you personally have not kept tabs upon and followed with a team of scientists is just someone trying to scam you. Anything you tell us about your life is anecdotal to we others. Whether you are talking about cutting yourself while you shaved this morning or whatever. It is a story to us because we haven’t the video – and some would say – THAT WAS FAKED so you could somehow manipulate people for X wild reason.

                In the same way, we have tens of thousands of parents who are extremely cautious or resistant to vaccination BECAUSE THEY OBSERVED THE REGRESSION, PAIN, AND SUFFERING OF THEIR CHILDREN FROM VACCINES. Some of them were proven to be caused by the vaccines, some are simply denied by the MDs who would not want to admit that they have been instrumental in damaging people, especially children. So they have congruent anecdotes – but they are dismissed by those with huge $$$$ – the drug pusher psychopath companies, the people who they pay for advertising costs (the media) and the medical profession making lots of money off of the products. They also want to train people to be very submissive because there are over 271 vaccines in the pipeline,

                • MaGaO May 3, 2017 / 5:54 pm

                  “It is not anecdotal to you because you experienced it. Therefore you know your reality.”
                  No. It is not anecdotal because it is not used to establish evidence.

                  “This is exactly like my experiences with my ozone machines, my staphyloccus infection, my licorice root for Hep B acting up, etc. i’ve seen all these things help. Thus they are not anecdotal.”
                  They are because you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You think that something that supposedly happened to you is enough to define a cause-effect relationship. Science does not work like this.
                  “Now – magically, when someone has an “alternative” healing event – the MDs and their mindless followers jump all over them and state that this is anecdotal. Oh – that person had stage IV terminal lung cancer which metastasized to their lymph and liver – then they took “a few” bitter almonds and in four months their cancer was totally gone and they never had any more after that.”
                  That is not an anecdote. That is a lie. Not your first, by the way.
                  ” Since this is THAT person’s experience – it is our anecdotal story – and it is looked at with total skepticism by the medical professionals who would lose a ton of money if people knew how much better and safer the bitter almonds (and other natural healing modalities) are over chemo, radiation, and most surgeries. So they disparage “anecdotal evidence” as worthless.”
                  Because it is. When enough anecdotal information accumulates, though, they run trials “just in case”.

                  “Yet your anecdote – your story – about how you feel, your symptoms, etc – that has validity when diagnosed.”
                  Oh dear, you are still willfully dumb: symptoms are checked against medical knowledge which is not anecdotal.
                  ” It is not very honest to assume that EVERY anecdotal story which you personally have not kept tabs upon and followed with a team of scientists is just someone trying to scam you.”
                  In your case, it is the only option.
                  ” Anything you tell us about your life is anecdotal to we others. Whether you are talking about cutting yourself while you shaved this morning or whatever. It is a story to us because we haven’t the video – and some would say – THAT WAS FAKED so you could somehow manipulate people for X wild reason.”
                  Remember who is continually telling tall tales? Hint: it is you.

                  “In the same way, we have tens of thousands of parents who are extremely cautious or resistant to vaccination BECAUSE THEY OBSERVED THE REGRESSION, PAIN, AND SUFFERING OF THEIR CHILDREN FROM VACCINES.”
                  Oh yes, and they do happen to have medical degrees or do knowledge about how vaccines work. A thousand ignoramuses do not equate real knowledge.
                  “Some of them were proven to be caused by the vaccines,”
                  Which?
                  ” some are simply denied by the MDs who would not want to admit that they have been instrumental in damaging people, especially children.”
                  Or because they are not related.
                  ” So they have congruent anecdotes – but they are dismissed by those with huge $$$$ – the drug pusher psychopath companies, the people who they pay for advertising costs (the media) and the medical profession making lots of money off of the products.”
                  Again: Big Medical Insurance will cover vaccines with no extra cost. And they are much bigger than Big Pharma and Big Medical together.
                  Your money conspiracy fails. Again.
                  ” They also want to train people to be very submissive because there are over 271 vaccines in the pipeline,”
                  Hundreds of which will, most likely, never get to be used because they don’t work well enough.

                  • brad May 3, 2017 / 7:36 pm

                    an·ec·dote (ăn′ĭk-dōt′)
                    n.
                    1. A short account of an interesting or humorous incident.
                    2. pl. an·ec·dotes or an·ec·do·ta (-dō′tə) Secret or hitherto undivulged particulars of history or biography.

                    In other words – since your MD did not observe your symptoms, feel them, have you hooked up to a monitor of some sort – they are what you tell him/her, and are thus anecdotal – particulars of history or biography.

                    This is USEFUL as i’ve been implying – your MD needs this information in order to be able to figure out ANYTHING about you. They could multiple random tests and never figure out why you came in for if you chose to not communicate at all. So you TELL them the story of what you felt, did, the time and place if it’s relevant, and that helps them diagnose your issues. Hopefully.

                    It is personal information that you shared to figure something out for your benefit.

                    Other people have different stories and experiences, and for those who choose not to believe these things have happened, well i try to verify – see if others have had similar results etc – but the anecdotal things that are observed frequently form the basis of hypotheses and trigger studies. “Well, i’ve seen a couple people have such and such happen when they go on this drug – and they all seem to be of similar age and gender, i wonder if there is something to do with their hormone levels on this med….(or whatever marker may be shared or exceptional….)

                    It is useful, and not to be ignored, i think. If someone is scamming me that’s another story…lol.

                    • MaGaO May 4, 2017 / 12:33 am

                      “an·ec·dote (ăn′ĭk-dōt′)
                      n.
                      1. A short account of an interesting or humorous incident.
                      2. pl. an·ec·dotes or an·ec·do·ta (-dō′tə) Secret or hitherto undivulged particulars of history or biography.

                      In other words –”
                      … you think that you can gloss over the specific meaning of anecdotal evidence. Read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence to get a general idea. Technical language does not necessarily conform to your preferred dictionary.
                      ” since your MD did not observe your symptoms, feel them, have you hooked up to a monitor of some sort – they are what you tell him/her, and are thus anecdotal – particulars of history or biography.”
                      And your doctor will use them to look for the likelier causes of your ailments but run tests anyways. Because your testimony may be flawed.
                      “This is USEFUL as i’ve been implying – your MD needs this information in order to be able to figure out ANYTHING about you. They could multiple random tests and never figure out why you came in for if you chose to not communicate at all.”
                      Wrong.
                      ” So you TELL them the story of what you felt, did, the time and place if it’s relevant, and that helps them diagnose your issues. Hopefully.”
                      And then they run tests.

                      It is personal information that you shared to figure something out for your benefit.”
                      It is information that is checked against a known corpus of symptoms, note used to establish the validity of new treatments.

                      Other people have different stories and experiences, and for those who choose not to believe these things have happened, well i try to verify – see if others have had similar results etc – but the anecdotal things that are observed frequently form the basis of hypotheses and trigger studies.”
                      Thanks for parroting me.
                      “Well, i’ve seen a couple people have such and such happen when they go on this drug – and they all seem to be of similar age and gender, i wonder if there is something to do with their hormone levels on this med….(or whatever marker may be shared or exceptional….)”
                      Except much more than a couple cases are required, except that rigorous studies need to be carried out. All of which you didn’t (assuming you aren’t making all this up).
                      “It is useful, and not to be ignored, i think. If someone is scamming me that’s another story…lol.”
                      It is you doing the scam.

                    • brad May 6, 2017 / 10:04 am

                      How is it a scam to state that not having scientific verification of your symptoms (or third party symptoms) is NOT the same as having a study, monitoring, verification, etc? The ONLY difference i can see is that if you tell your MD something about what is going on, then that is not anecdotal to you, but if anyone else tells their MD something similar or different to their MD (or yours) then it is anecdotal. Because you don’t trust them to tell their symptoms and resolutions, their disease course – with honesty. Well, why should anyone trust you and your description of your disease course then?
                      The difference of course is that for you to have experienced directly what you went through and observed is your personal reality. It is non-transferable. The same holds true with other people, and i suspect that when it comes to matters of health, most people are going to keep things honest so that treatments can be more effective. Lie about what happened and you will be given some drug ( of course ALWAYS toxic) that is not going to necessarily alleviate your symptoms. So keep it straight with the people that you need to help you.

                      That would be like someone telling me that they are going to put on a single story remodel on the west wall of their house, when in reality they want a two story addition. Oops – foundation is wrongly drawn up…

                    • MaGaO May 6, 2017 / 10:41 am

                      “How is it a scam to state that not having scientific verification of your symptoms (or third party symptoms) is NOT the same as having a study, monitoring, verification, etc?”
                      Something you didn’t say, so you are building another strawman. You state that telling your symptoms to your doctor is as anecdotal as your tales about vaccines are.
                      ” The ONLY difference i can see is that if you tell your MD something about what is going on, then that is not anecdotal to you, but if anyone else tells their MD something similar or different to their MD (or yours) then it is anecdotal. Because you don’t trust them to tell their symptoms and resolutions, their disease course – with honesty. Well, why should anyone trust you and your description of your disease course then?”
                      THEY DON’T. I have told you before: patients tell of symptoms, and the doctors run tests because testimony is not enough.
                      “The difference of course is that for you to have experienced directly what you went through and observed is your personal reality. It is non-transferable. The same holds true with other people, and i suspect that when it comes to matters of health, most people are going to keep things honest so that treatments can be more effective. Lie about what happened and you will be given some drug ( of course ALWAYS toxic) that is not going to necessarily alleviate your symptoms. So keep it straight with the people that you need to help you.”
                      And got should keep it straight too: you have no idea what you are taking about. Yet you give medical advice.

                      That would be like someone telling me that they are going to put on a single story remodel on the west wall of their house, when in reality they want a two story addition. Oops – foundation is wrongly drawn up…”
                      I trust your architectural knowledge as much as your medical knowledge.

                    • michael vlachos May 7, 2017 / 6:54 am

                      Brad, I work as a paramedic (soon to be nurse). We get anecdotal stories all the time of what happened to patients. Many times it’s from vastly overworked medical staff at skilled nursing facilities, or other long term care.. Some times it from spouses, children, or other family members. Even friends some times want to tell us what happened. Those are all anecdotal evidence of a problem.

                      Please notice that I exclude any information gained directly from the patient. want to know why? Because the patient doesn’t give me Anecdotal evidence when they are describing their issue. “I have sharp stabbing pain behind my left eye, that radiates to the back of my head” is much much different than a buddy saying, “his eye hurts like getting kicked by a mule after drinking too much shine.”

                      Depending on the tale we are told, and the signs/symptoms we can observe, with narrow down what the possible diagnosis is. Then we do tests, complete vital signs, ECG, BGL, etc… and we come to a conclusion as to what is happening. Depending on what it is we treat the patient.

                      Telling your Doctor, Nurse, or Paramedic, you have a Flank pain, and it hurts to urinate is not anecdotal. It’s a description of symptoms. Telling the Doctor your pain level is 8/10 is not anecdotal.

                      When I transport a patient to the ER, or to a Hospital room, I give a report. This report includes why we were called, what happened, what we saw, and did for the patient. This too is not anecdotal. I give a brief explanation of why I was called “We got a report of a person on the ground”, ” On arrival we observed a person laying on the ground” The patient (the person on the ground who has now become my patient) was unresponsive. (There are multiple tests I can perform that allows me to make this conclusion. Regardless of what other people may have said). The patient had sonorous agonal respiration. baseline vital signs were as follows BP, HR, RR, breath sounds, Pulse Ox, ECG reading etc. We gained IV access via 18g IV in the left forearm, placed the patient on O2 (giving the exact amount and route). The patient received (inset specific drug here and exact amount). Patient responded by (insert patients response to drug administration).” none of this is anecdotal. It’s all direct observation, tests, and information we gained.

                      The Nurses, and Doctors then turn around, and perform every single one of those tests again. before they start their definitive treatments. At not time do they ever start treating just because of a symptom that someone said they have. They ALWAYS verify through their own testing process.

                      You know what is Anecdote? If I told you that an unresponsive patient was probably just drunk, because this one time in band camp we had (insert what ever story you want here). Which is most likely wrong, and is certainly not relevant to the issue at hand.

  16. brad May 9, 2017 / 6:42 pm

    i can live with your not liking my analogy, but the truth is, when i was subcontracting and building million $$$ homes in SW Colorado, an engineer couldn’t figure out how to fix a “boo-boo” that i found in the framing that someone else did before i was called in to fix things. A miscarried 22,000 pound point load. That’s eleven tons of “oops”.

    Engineer stood and looked at the mess i’d torn the ceiling apart to reveal – double 11-7/8 BCI floor system w/3/4 inch T&G floor deck and the load was missing the bearing point on fhe foundation AND only had ONE single 11-7/8 LVL holding up part of the log that carried half the weight of three very large timber framed, multi-story rooms. Eleven tons worth – twisting and ripping that LVL.

    Engineer stood there for hours and shook his head – walked up and down the stairs to look at the rooms, see if he could diffuse the load from just that point – ended up staring up at the open mess. i told him it might not work for reasons that he might be aware of which i wasn’t, but i knew what i would have done. He asked what i would do – and i didn’t tell him it took about 45 seconds for me to figure out.

    He drew up my idea, we went to a metal fabrication place to build the half inch thick steel platform to put under the log, then i ended up moving the house wiring bundle, the in-house vac lines, and installing 4 more LVLs under the side of the log, glued and screwed to span the 8 foot wide hallway (diagonal measurement). Bolted the metal triangle/gusset to the log, Jacked it up with a 20 ton jack, drilled through the holes in the plate into the LVL beam i’d just added onto and built – put in huge 3/4 inch bolts, let it settle down on top of 16″ diameter half-logs (at the hallway walls on top of bearing points that had been missed) put in a little bit of metal shims on the end grain of the log – since the log has a compressive strength of hundreds of thousands PSI on that orientation – and then repaired the drywall, put the insulation and lid back, etc…

    Involved, but it worked. Thus i don’t much care about your trust in my building skills – trained engineers have, and that is more significant, lol.

    • MaGaO May 9, 2017 / 6:48 pm

      And then you woke up.

      • brad May 10, 2017 / 10:49 am

        Get phukken real azzhole. Just because you don’t like my refusal to surrender my personal freedoms for YOUR decisions regarding what i must do in relationship to a body you know NOTHING about – but have decided MUST BECOME VAXASSINATED because YOUR stupid body is too delicate to function without my sacrificing myself for YOU… (greedy fool and pig)

        So that means that anyone that disagrees with you has NO skills, talents, qualities because you are irritated about one aspect of my choices. How phukking stupid of you. Yes, i CAN drive a car, yes i’ve raised children that are not rapists, murderers, or criminals. Yes, i farm safely and grow more nutritious food than you could possibly buy in a store – anywhere probably. i raise livestock that are safe to eat unlike your toxic CAFO crapola. i taught myself to weld and fixed old farm implements so that i can cut and bale the hay, plow and disk the fields, rebuilt the drill so that i can seed the pastures and crops, AND an antique IH 2-row corn planter…

        But none of that works BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE MY REFUSAL TO BUY INTO YOUR PARROTING OF FAKE SCIENCE REGARDING VACCINE SAFETY AND NECESSITY.

        Incredibly narrow minded of you. You don’t get that far gone without explicit effort.

        • Jennifer Raff May 10, 2017 / 10:51 am

          Stop with the personal attacks, those are violating my comment policy.

          • brad May 10, 2017 / 11:09 am

            Gladly – but i note you said nothing about denigrating my skillsets. With total lack of knowledge, without realizing that in a corner of SW Colorado i had a reputation for fixing the impossible and being called back from California to fix remodels that needed creative solutions to be possible (and which i provided, then successfully built).

            The guy denigrates my skillset about a miscarried 22,000 pound point load and likely doesn’t even know what that is, or how to calculate the floor deflection values of various framing systems – but he shoots at me with impunity…

            BUT – they are “JABBERS” and perhaps this gives you more tolerance of their intolerance.

            My basic point here is that the safety studies on vaccines are not good science. The effectiveness of vaccines is grossly overrated – and STILL i support your making YOUR choice about whether you intend to poison yourself and your kids – go ahead – vaccinate. Obviously you are not getting your RDA for squalens or the other neurotoxins without it.

            But leave my choices and freedoms alone. My getting shots won’t help you a damn bit. My not getting shots will. NOBODY – not one single person nor any fictitious legal entity (read that correctly as a made-up, imaginary entity) including any level of government has any authority to dictate my health choices.

            At all.

            Ever.

            The ONLY response a govt can legitimately force on a person is isolation and quarantine during a REAL outbreak/pandemic. That is a far cry from forcibly injecting poisons into an unwilling “participants” body – and if that situation arises, i will defend myself and i pity the poor doctor or nurse trying to vaccinate me because they will be broken. Literally.

            MY body – MY choice.

            • Chris May 10, 2017 / 11:14 am

              “MY body – MY choice.”

              Except your own children. Except also when you infect your elderly neighbor or the child getting treatment for cancer.

              Please thank your responsible neighbors who protect you (and your family) by vaccinating. They are increasing your community’s immunity to some very nasty diseases. Science works whether or not you understand it.

              • brad May 10, 2017 / 10:15 pm

                Again – i fail to see the remotest bit of logic in the assumptions you make here. WHY – and you have to provide an answer to retain even a smidgeon of credibility here – does physics change when one continues to NOT do anything. I am not driving a car. If i continue to not drive today – i am not going to cause an accident. In the same way, i am not vaccinated – and like most adults – comprise an essentially unvaccinated adult population which HAS BEEN UNVACCINATED FOR OVER 60 YEARS – and yet my continuing to NOT do something magically makes me a carrier for infectious diseases????

                That is beyond preposterous. We have had zero pandemics with an unvaccinated adult population in the last 60 years – why NOW are we having these dire death events predicted – by our NOT getting vaccinated. At least for the live vaccines – YOU are the transmitter of the diseases as you shed. Usually for a specific time frame within a specific amount of time after the shot and incubation takes place. Then you shed millions or more viruses all over the everywhere.

                Note – that in cancer wards – YOU as a recent vaccinated individual are capable of killing the immune compromised – not me without my vaccines. Yet you immediately and seemingly magically, conclude that without having disease presentation – i am suddenly attracting every pathogen in the region. Then how come it is the vaccinated who comprise most of those infected during outbreaks? And before you go there – reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction testing has proven that the VACCINE viruses have caused outbreaks – so at the very, very least you have to admit that vaccination causes some outbreaks – even if i concede (without any evidence i have been shown) that unvaccinated have caused some also. Either way – your vaccine protection appears to suck – when sometimes 97% of the infected were fully vaccinated.

                This causes your arguments at least 2 problem choices. One – the vaccines aren’t nearly as effective as your JABBER friends pretend, and Two – there are from 4% – 10% of people known to not respond to vaccines. Let’s throw in Three – mutations in the pathogens as proven to be caused by the whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine causing a different, more virulent strain to be spread, and usually by asymptomatic carriers who ARE VACCINATED, note.

                In all these situations – IT IS GOING TO BE TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR VACCINES TO RID THE WORLD OF THESE DISEASES. Heck – some very rare individuals are shown to be carrying live vaccine viruses around for months and a few less for YEARS – a guy in the polio region has been shown to be carrying live polio viruses FROM THE VACCINE for over 20 years. Bingo – no disease eradication – period.

                So perhaps we need a different solution or combination of approaches to health – and we might want to stop freaking out about every case of measles that pops up. It will be impossible to stop that, is not societally threatening, and counterproductive – unless you are making billions of $$$ off of vaccines…

                You keep pretending that vaccines can induce herd immunity. The original premise of herd immunity was for NATURAL disease outcomes – and the Dr who did those studies showed that in Baltimore, if the measles outbreaks among children reached something like 48% or something similar – the outbreaks reduced until the infected percentile of children dropped below 30 something – at which point the childhood disease again increased, the kids got permanent immunity, and almost everyone survived with one week of discomfort. Then the percentage infected hit the 40something, the outbreaks decreased again, until the cycle continued…

                This has nothing to do with vaccines which are totally and undeniably incapable of inducing immunity. Don’t confuse “immunology” with immunity. It is nothing alike. By having the childhood diseases of measles, chicken pox, and mumps (maybe more when younger?) i have permanent immunity to those diseases and have had to wade through outbreaks of those when my kids were in school before we pulled them out and homeschooled them. You – with your vaccines – might have lost your temporary protection (since you in no manner have any immunity) somewhere btwn the 2nd and 10th year of getting your shots – and might run into that school thinking yourself protected and having a chicken pox outbreak in your body. Suddenly, because you DON’T have immunity, and because your vaccine pushed your disease expression from a generally safe youth time frame into adulthood – you are at 20 X greater risk of death, and about 15 X greater risk of permanent damage from that disease. Now – please explain how you and society are better off with this greater threat hanging over your head – and those who would be affected by your death or permanent disability of some sort?

                So – no – you are NOT protecting me. If herd immunity worked from vaccines that might be another story – bus since they don’t the only reason for your assumption regarding my safety from your being vaccinated is because you’ve believed the dishonest appraisals of those making billions of $$$ from vaccines.

                And i appreciate your wanting people to be safe, i really do. We are just looking at different aspects and approaching safety differently.

                • michael vlachos May 10, 2017 / 11:19 pm

                  wow, how do you guys not lose your cool? This guy still hasn’t produced any documentation, and continues making absurd comments. I took me 10 minutes to be able to not use invectives in writing this post..

                  Brad are you speaking about this article? http://www.naturalhealth365.com/cancer-patients-vaccinated-compromised-immune-system-1331.html Which asserts that St. Jude Children’s hospital says that vaccinated people are a greater risk than unvaccinated to immunocompromized cancer patients? Nothing like taking information out of context to make a point. your point is completely wrong, but I know you won’t let that stop you from making it.

                  Well here is the entire St Judes web page for visiting guidelines. https://www.stjude.org/treatment/patient-resources/caregiver-resources/infection-tips/inpatient-visiting-guidelines.html?vgnextoid=d007404edaf0c410VgnVCM100000290115acRCRD&vgnextchannel=f5ead290e3133110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD&SearchUrl=search_results.jsp&QueryText=visitor%2520information.

                  Now you might say, but but there isn’t anything about people with a cold, or measles not being allowed into a cancer ward. Go ahead. give a sneeze, complain of a sore throat to a nurse in a cancer ward.. Watch how fast they escort your sanctimonious ass out of there. “In addition to ensuring siblings and family members are vaccinated, St. Jude recommends its patients avoid exposures to adults and children with suspected or proven infectious illnesses; for example, those with fever, rash, cough, runny nose, and diarrhea.” wait is that them telling you go get vaccinated? Why it is.. And telling you to avoid ALL people with a fever, rash, flu like symptoms etc…

                  One last counter to your more egregious statements.. IT IS GOING TO BE TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR VACCINES TO RID THE WORLD OF THESE DISEASES.. How do you explain away small pox? It no longer exists in the wild. We no longer vaccinate against it, because it has been eradicated as a disease.

                  • MaGaO May 11, 2017 / 12:40 am

                    Oh, he will explain smallpox being wiped out. I don’t know, though, which nonsensical explanation will be used: its not being caused by a virus, sanitation, magic…

                  • Chris May 11, 2017 / 2:09 pm

                    Actually, it is amusing to see how many ways he is so very very wrong. For some reason he keeps repeating the same inane falsehoods as if it will actually affect reality.

                    • Patrick May 11, 2017 / 3:58 pm

                      Perhaps for people like Michael, “Antivaccination” is more like a religious belief: One clings to it, regardless of ,and perhaps even more fiercely when, it is refuted. The fact that others share your belief gives you a sense of community, a social anchor if you will. If you share a harmless belief, like dead people waking up, or flying spaghetti monsters, it does no harm. When you trespass on the domains of medicine or climate change however, the approach costs lives. Lots of them.

                    • michael vlachos May 12, 2017 / 3:47 am

                      you mean for people like Brad right? I’m very firmly on the side of vaccinations.

                    • Patrick May 12, 2017 / 9:37 am

                      Sorry Michael- mixed up the commentator with the commented on. Yes, Brad of course.

          • Patrick August 20, 2017 / 10:26 am

            You tell ’em Jennifer! It’s sad that we can no longer debate without resorting to personal attacks. 😦

        • MaGaO May 10, 2017 / 11:33 am

          “Get phukken real azzhole. ”
          Pot, kettle.
          “Just because you don’t like my refusal to surrender my personal freedoms”
          If this was just about your personal freedoms this conversation would not have happened.
          ” for YOUR decisions regarding what i must do in relationship to a body you know NOTHING about”
          Decisions? I get to decide nothing, dear, on how you mistreat your body. I do get to decide whether I stay silent when you talk nonsense. And I decide not to.
          ” – but have decided MUST BECOME VAXASSINATED because YOUR stupid body is too delicate to function without my sacrificing myself for YOU… (greedy fool and pig)”
          I think there is an adjective for someone who worries only for himself, the rest of the world be damned.
          “So that means that anyone that disagrees with you”
          Don’t blame me: I am but the messenger. You disagree with reality.
          ” has NO skills, talents, qualities because you are irritated about one aspect of my choices.”
          I stopped being irritated long ago. You have shown such a tenuous grasp on reality, such a mishmash of concepts that anything you write has become unreliable.
          “How phukking stupid of you. Yes, i CAN drive a car, yes i’ve raised children that are not rapists, murderers, or criminals. Yes, i farm safely and grow more nutritious food than you could possibly buy in a store – anywhere probably. i raise livestock that are safe to eat unlike your toxic CAFO crapola. i taught myself to weld and fixed old farm implements so that i can cut and bale the hay, plow and disk the fields, rebuilt the drill so that i can seed the pastures and crops, AND an antique IH 2-row corn planter…”
          All of which have no bearing on whether vaccines are safe.
          “But none of that works BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE MY REFUSAL TO BUY INTO YOUR PARROTING OF FAKE SCIENCE REGARDING VACCINE SAFETY AND NECESSITY.”
          You reap what you sow. Your continuous and ignorant denial of established medical facts, your insistence on going on unrelated tangents have made you unreliable. It has already been pointed out to you that you consider your professional abilities above any reproach while you eagerly dismiss everyone else’s. So I pay you with the same coin, because maybe you will finally understand your folly.
          “Incredibly narrow minded of you. You don’t get that far gone without explicit effort.”
          Please avoid projecting your defects on other people.

          • brad May 10, 2017 / 12:26 pm

            You are wrong to think that i think only of myself regarding the right to choose to vaccinate or not choose to vaccinate. i extend freedoms in all areas – and deny that others have the choice to limit my freedoms as long as i don’t damage them.

            Yet if one is wealthy and runs a corporation – they CAN damage you and i with impunity. Look at air pollution, water pollution, the way our oxygen supply has been destroyed by about 1/3rd by toxins destroying cyanobacteria, oceanic photosynthesis, and to lesser degree, deforestation and desertification WITH the added bonus of plastics covering over 5,000,000 square miles of just the Pacific ocean and reducing photosynthesis by 35% in those regions.

            So – the public good means nothing if you are really rich and run a corporation.

            For everyone – i want that planetary destruction to stop. The reason i am against MANDATORY vaccination – is because you know that if the so-called government gets the power to force any medical decision upon you – THEY WILL NOT STOP. The ijjuts in my Calif who passed the unconstitutional SB277 (technically null and void despite their big stick) are already writing mandatory ADULT vaccination laws – to be implemented in a “boiling frog” manner – first nurses and health workers, then probably teachers, then…..

            This is the SWAT assault that will destroy the door that keeps your freedoms protected – and i fight MANDATORY vaccination for that reason, for all. That the hype about vaccine safety and effectiveness is so inflated is just salt in the wounds. Even if there were safe and effective vaccines that i would choose to take – i would STILL fight mandatory vaccination or any mandatory medical procedures at all.

            As for “medical facts” show me one study on the safety of vaccines which puts a vaccine against a saline solution placebo. None of the industry, or accepted studies do this at all. They always take one vaccine, and their fake placebo is not by any means inert. It is almost always either a different vaccine with a comparable load of toxic adjuvants, antigens, and sometimes either a missing or different pathogen. i am looking for one study in particular (will link if i find it later) in which the so-called safety test involved infants given i think TDaP shots – but the control AND the sample both received another vaccine at the same time, and the “control” group not only had that second vaccine added, but their false placebo was everything BUT the pathogen in the control group.

            This is a totally invalid method of testing for safety. Here is an article with links showing that the supposed safety of aluminum in vaccines is not really reflective of what happens inside bodies.

            It gets good a couple paragraphs down after the Offitt quote…

            http://vaccinepapers.org/the-foundation-for-al-adjuvant-safety-is-false/

            • Chris May 10, 2017 / 1:28 pm

              “The reason i am against MANDATORY vaccination ….”

              Where does this happen? Seriously, give us the state and accompanying legislative law. In the USA the states just put in requirements for vaccines to attend public school.

              If you do not want to vaccinate yourself, fine. I don’t believe you are applying to get into kindergarten. If you have kids, you don’t have to get them vaccinated either. Just send them to private school or home school. That works even in California (where apparently you do not live).

              And if you object to places that require vaccines to work, then don’t apply to work at those places. Again, it does not look like you are qualified to work in a medical clinic nor be a teacher anywhere, so it does not apply to you.

              We really don’t care if you get yourself vaccinated. What we do care about is that you make claims about the science of disease, immunity, vaccines, etc without any kind of cogent evidence (Dan “Vapor Genie” Steinberg who runs “VaccinePapers” is not a qualified source of scientific reasoning). They are just arguments by blatant assertion, which is why you (and the “Vapor Genie”) should be ignored.

              Seriously, reality does not care about your opinions. It is just a bunch of noise without any substance.

              • brad May 11, 2017 / 5:42 pm

                Wrong again, Chris – i live in Calif although my kids WERE homeschooled. With today’s economy and high number of single parents to pretend that all can afford private schools or homeschooling are smoking some serious hallucinogens. In fact there is a homeschool curriculum company out of Sacramento which refused to send a family their curriculum needs until they “proved” by medical records (illegal HPPA violation i think) that the 12 or 14 yr old daughter caught up on some particular vaccine.

                SB277 actually violates our state constitution, where under patient’s rights it clearly states that if requested – any medical provider MUST BY LAW provide “full medical disclosure”. That means if an MD gets such a request and bullies the parents from looking at a vaccine insert (full disclosure – not that edited faked safety sheet) they have violated your constitutionally recognized human rights here. Any rejection of a person’s religious beliefs as a valid means of not vaccinating invalidates the Constitution of the nation.

                In both cases – these are the highest laws – one of the state, one the nation – and for those unaware of the hierarchy of law – nobody and nothing can lawfully violate the constitutions unless the states together pass amendments – and do it absolutely correctly unlike some of the amendments. NO legislative acts by the state have authority over the state constitution – thus where it states in the patient’s rights section right behind full medical disclosure – it provides that regardless of “how good” a procedure is determined to be, the patient has the right to refuse ANY MEDICAL PROCEDURE at all. Thus, forced vaccinations upon our wards is direct violation of state constitution, making SB277 null and void.

                The AMA has lobbied the US Congress for multiple years for bills to force all USA adults to be mandatorily vaccinated with no exemptions. They claim medical exemptions, yet there are mothers in NY State who have proven vaccine damaged children and are being refused medical exemptions for those kids – they have to be vaccinated. How is that not mandatory?

                Regardless – your parental rights are being undermined and attacked. There is already legislation in the works out here to make all health workers get vaccinated, and let me ask you – when you give your (farce of a) government some power – WHEN does the government release or decrease their power and demands? What are you going to do when they do pass mandatory vaccination – hell the Boston Herald published an op-ed piece (anonymously, but write to someone named Cohen) which states that people who don’t vaccinate and who question them NEED TO BE HUNG BY THE NECK until dead.

                This is what we are coming to when we resist the propaganda? Obviously the drug pushers are fearing the people who want to slow, delay, and reduce the vaccination schedules to go to this extreme. And with drug pushers paying 5,400,000,000 in advertising revenue – the media jumps to THEIR tune.

                So – neither you or anyone has given ME a safety study that is valid. On another website a MD just stated that measles is not the only problem with measles, and that there were also increased pneumonia and encephalopathy risks from measles. So i linked him the MMRII vaccine INSERT – which quotes studies and points out that HEY!!! If you take the measles VACCINE – you also get a chance at pneumonia – and other respiratory illnesses. You get (from the vaccine) increased chances to acquire encephalopathy – and encephalitis, and other neurological disorders. You also get an increased chance for arthritis – USUALLY short term, but maybe life-long. You have a list of at least half a dozen adverse events for immune system disorders too. In other words – my friend Dr Chad mentioned 2 risks of the disease not commonly looked at, BUT are INCLUDED in the vaccine risks – and never mentioned the much greater number of much greater risks that one gets from the MMRII vaccine ACCORDING TO MANUFACTURER INSERT.

                They mention their safety studies in there – one of my gripes of the VAXASSINATION crowd of JABBERS – They compare vaccinated to vaccinated. When they do studies of infants and call them vaccinated vs unvaccinated – what they REALLY mean is that the infants are vaccinated, but not the second series – so they CALL them unvaccinated. Not really kosher – they ARE vaccinated.

                In the insert i mention they compared the people getting jabbed with MMRII with people getting OTHER VACCINES.

                Using this “safety study logic” i could give you a safe arsenic vaccine, and i could prove it is safe because my control group was given cyanide, and the arsenic didn’t kill any more people than the cyanide did. Ipso Facto: the arsenic vaccine is safe. This is pretty exactly the logic of this sort of vaccine safety study. The vaccinated with the X vaccine group didn’t have “significantly more” adverse events than the control group which was given a “placebo” of all the toxic chemicals that you need personal protective equipment in order to touch in the laboratory – but they left out the mumps virus, or the influenza B or whatever. So you aren’t really doing a safety study with accuracy because you are not using an inert substance like saline solution. Heck – throw in Blue #2 dye and pretend it’s something else for the placebo effect to be decreased…

                So give me the safety study, and PLEASE don’t use that lame, discredited “twins” study. They talk about how it is a study of thousands of pairs of twins. Wrong – there were thousands in the initial query. When it came down to separating the criterion – the only people that met that criterion were something like 22 pairs of twins in which one had been vaccinated and developed autism, and the other had not been vaccinated. They say the rate of autism was the same – and i don’t care – what bothers me is that when i linked a study regarding 600+ homeschoolers it was laughed at as having insignificant numbers, and despite passing peer review (granted, not flawless – Galileo and Velykovski suffered from a severe case of peer review) but then to give credit to 22 pairs while denigrating 600 + people is more than duplitious.

                In case you missed it or i managed to misplace it in keyboard fever, lol. http://www.talkingaboutthescience.com/mawson2017/

                Here is a big gripe of mine – article is in PDF format. It concerns your one-size-fits-all approach to vaccines. Take a 9 pound baby – larger than average in the US – and they get the same volume/size of shots as any 180 pound adult. So – the baby’s shot load is comparable to giving that adult sized person 20 shots. If the baby is six pounds – a 180# adult would equivalently get 30 shots for each shot the baby got.

                vaccineliberationarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/DJped-cyp-enzyms.pdf Don’t let the URL scare you, it’s taken from the “J Pediatr Pharmacol Ther 2014;19(4):262–276

                  • brad May 12, 2017 / 7:35 pm

                    Interesting. Looks like they either had to do it or get their drugpusher funding/advert $$$ pulled, or they are just being fishy. No explanation. Coming – later – probably one of those back page things after everyone forgot about the original issue.
                    If you found a reason to make the study invalid – just be honest and state it, perhaps a statistical mistake, perhaps the conclusions exceed what the data supports – this happens ALL THE TIME in pro-medicine studies and is why the former head editors of both the NEJM and Lancet state that half of the studies published today are worthless. Mostly because of fraud.

                    i suspect there is no real reason regarding the study, but immense pressure from the implications of the study results. There are too many people doubting the story line, and more every day – so pHARMa can’t afford to cut anyone any slack. Perhaps this is why the Boston Herald (?) on the 8th published the op ed that we who don’t just surrender our minds over the vaccine issue should be hanged. By the neck. Until dead.

                    If you can’t win an argument – beat the crap out of them and make them fear non-compliance…

                    • Chris May 12, 2017 / 9:38 pm

                      I know it would be a waste of time to try to explain to you the very biased sampling bias and dodgy statistics that caused this “research” to be retracted a second time. Because you went with the obvious: conspiracy theory.

                      Whatever floats your boat. And definitely more reason that you are just random noise in the ether.

                    • Jmac May 13, 2017 / 1:36 am

                      As Chris has already said, just background noise. Your inability to understand even the most basic aspects of immunology and infection is mind boggling. Your subsequent clinging to conspiracy theories is the expected outcome. As you were.

    • Notnearlyanonymous May 10, 2017 / 12:31 am

      Yet, when someone with immensely more training than you in physiology, immunology, microbiology, virology, and medicine, and a couple decades of thousands of people trusting that person with their very lives and being directly accountable for the outcomes, you think you know better because of your ability to google to find anti-vaxx blogs.

      As you would say, “LOL”

      • Patrick May 10, 2017 / 8:07 am

        Whoop, Whoop!

  17. Tarryn August 3, 2017 / 2:05 pm

    What about SIDS. Japan has almost no incidents of SIDS / the lowest rates in the world. They delay vaccinations until 24 months!

    • MaGaO August 3, 2017 / 4:19 pm

      And measles is still endemic there and they have suffered repeated outbreaks (with deaths).

    • Chris August 4, 2017 / 11:00 am

      Is that idiotic lie still be spouted? Don’t be so gullible, learn how to actually look up the actual factual data on PubMed:

      Expert Rev Vaccines. 2005 Apr;4(2):173-84.
      Acellular pertussis vaccines in Japan: past, present and future.

      Which says:

      An antivaccine movement developed in Japan as a consequence of increasing numbers of adverse reactions to whole-cell pertussis vaccines in the mid-1970s. After two infants died within 24 h of the vaccination from 1974 to 1975, the Japanese government temporarily suspended vaccinations. Subsequently, the public and the government witnessed the re-emergence of whooping cough, with 41 deaths in 1979. This series of unfortunate events revealed to the public that the vaccine had, in fact, been beneficial.

      There are more details about that lie here:
      Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story

      And the troubled history of Japan when it bends to political demands over scientific data:
      Vaccine chronicle in Japan

      In short: don’t use Japan as a source of sound vaccine policy.

    • Chris August 5, 2017 / 12:32 am

      Tarryn, how do you feel about the website that blatantly lied to you about Japan and its vaccines? Are you going to continue to trust them? Especially since a simple Google search can find even an English language version of their vaccine schedule:

      And yes, it starts at birth.

      How does it feel to accept a lie that a simple Google search would disprove? Is it anger at those deceiving websites, or will you experience the backfire effect? This is where you dig you heals in further, and believe that you are being deceived by those who are telling you are being deceived?

      Please tell us. It might help Colin’s research.

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