In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.
Dear parents,
You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.
They say that measles isn’t a deadly disease.
But it is.
They say that chickenpox isn’t that big of a deal.
But it can be.
They say that the flu isn’t dangerous.
But it is.
They say that whooping cough isn’t so bad for kids to get.
But it is.
They say that vaccines aren’t that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children’s lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.
They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.
They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine. For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.
They will say that doctors won’t admit there are any side effects to vaccines.
But the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.
They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
It doesn’t. (The question of whether vaccines cause autism has been investigated in study after study, and they all show overwhelming evidence that they don’t.)
They say that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism.
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t been in most vaccines since 2001 anyway.
They say that the aluminum in vaccines (an adjuvant, or component of the vaccine designed to enhance the body’s immune response) is harmful to children.
But children consume more aluminum in natural breast milk than they do in vaccines, and far higher levels of aluminum are needed to cause harm.
They say that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (and/or the “vaccine court”) proves that vaccines are harmful.
It doesn’t.
They say that the normal vaccine schedule is too difficult for a child’s immune system to cope with.
It isn’t.
They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.
This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.
They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine.
They aren’t.
The truth is that vaccines are one of our greatest public health achievements, and one of the most important things you can do to protect your child.
I can predict exactly the sort of response I will be getting from the anti-vaccine activists. Because they can’t argue effectively against the overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines, they will say that I work for Big Pharma. (I don’t and never have). They will say that I’m not a scientist (I am), and that I’m an “Agent 666” (I don’t know what that is, but I’m pretty sure that I’m not one).
None of these things are true, but they are the reflexive response by the anti-vaccine activists because they have no facts to back up their position. On some level, deep down, they must understand this, and are afraid of the implications, so they attack the messenger.
Why are they lying to you? Some are doing it for profit, trying to sell their alternative remedies by making you afraid of science-based medicine. I’m sure that many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful. But as a certain astrophysicist recently said “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”. In the case of vaccine truthers, this is not a good thing. Good intentions will not prevent microbes from infecting and harming people, and the message that vaccines are dangerous is having dire consequences. There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.
In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learn what the scientific community says. Learn how the immune system works. Go read about the history of disease before vaccines, and talk to older people who grew up when polio, measles, and other diseases couldn’t be prevented. Go read about how vaccines are developed, and how they work. Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked. Read the numerous, huge studies that have explicitly examined whether autism is caused by the vaccine…and found nothing. (While you’re at it, read about the ongoing research to determine what IS the cause—or causes —of autism, which is not helped by people continuing to insist that vaccines cause it).
That may seem like a lot of work, and scientific papers can seem intimidating to read. But reading scientific articles is a skill that can be mastered. Here’s a great resource for evaluating medical information on the internet, and I wrote a guide for non-scientists on how to read and understand the scientific literature. You owe it to your children, and to yourself, to thoroughly investigate the issue. Don’t rely on what some stranger on the internet says (not even me!). Read the scientific studies that I linked to in this post for yourself, and talk to your pediatricians. Despite what the anti-vaccine community is telling you, you don’t need to be afraid of the vaccines. You should instead be afraid of what happens without them.
Edited to add: This video is an outstanding summary of many of these issues. I encourage you to watch it.
“Humans try to make sense of the world by seeing patterns. When they see a disease or condition that tends to appear around the time a child is a year or so old, as autism does, and that is also the age that kids get particular shots, they want to put those things together. Parents watch kids more carefully after they get shots. Sometimes they pick up on symptoms then. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean that one caused the other. This is why we need careful scientific studies.”
Note: For people coming via a direct link, please also feel free to participate in a follow-up discussion
here.
1/13/15: Edited to update broken hyperlinks. If you find any additional broken links, please don’t hesitate to let me know. –JR
4/19/16: Edited again to update more broken hyperlinks. If you find more, keep letting us know and we’ll keep fixing them. –CM
Violent metaphors 
Thank you for what you do to educate the public on this matter and even more…your education of our future generations!
So… let’s look at these facts; First, the “Anti-Vaxx” movement is more interested in promoting the change from cheap, profitable, harmful toxic adjuvants (think Climate Change Denial, GMO, asbestos, etc), to safe ones, like in the good old days before mass production and Special Interest backed Big Pharma. 2). Disease is disease, hard to believe anyone is disputing that, yet mainlining neurotoxins, heavy metals, excitotoxins, etc, directly into the body, AROUND THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM AND HENCE THE LIVER, you bypass the body’s number one detoxing organ and it’s benefit (so disingenuous to pathologically devious that they reference aluminum in breast milk which is digested and apples to oranges). 3) the NIH themselves admit there isn’t enough research to counter the claims made by either side on most of the issues, have already pulled, banned, or restricted use of a *few* of the offending chemicals, and even themselves point to non-harmful adjuvant studies. 4) I’ve known two people, (one a skydiver) who “lost” a child *coincidentally* proximate to a vaccine, and had an episode of reactivity myself – not to say there aren’t kooks out there, but evidentiary to me. 5) To say that MMR or any vaccine does or does not cause Autism or some other similar response is suspect, and both counter and ignorant to documented case study and our still more caveman than cure, profit and pill medical system. Moreover, this ignores that we have not only a national but an international crisis on our hands as the onset rate of chronic diseases continues to skyrocket (from 1:10,000+ to 1:<100 in a few decades), so they go into CYA mode. 6) Thimersol IS STILL IN VACCINES AS OF 2013-2014, and while quoted as safe, is still a known neurotoxin, an ethyl mercury, and once again, does not get the benefit of a liver detox before passing the blood brain barrier. 7) Most of us AGREE that the vaccination system is the backbone of a disease free society, yet some of us just don't want to sit by and let another few decades of PROFITEERING go by, due to powerlessness, instead of putting pressure on the slow to move, special interest backed, greed based, modern 'Merica!n episteme that puts money before people…
Very well said, although I don’t agree with point 7. Could you provide me with some sources? I’m always looking to add to my ammunition.
This purports to be a leaked copy of Glaxo-Smith-Kline’s 2011 vaccine incident report to the EU. I leave it to you to decide if it’s authentic (at 1200+ pages any forger would’ve had to have been a bit obsessive) and if the cases described can be fairly characterized as “rare.” http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/3/27/09/71/2012-2013/confid.pdf
Aluminum-containing vaccine adjuvants stimulating auto-immune inflammatory reactions (ASIA syndrome) in sheep: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23579772
Nano-materials containing aluminum appear to have novel toxic effects, migrating from muscle to CNS: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23557144
There have been a lot of links to the Living Whole blog dropped here. The blogger there, Megan, is an excellent example of the manipulative dishonesty Jennifer identified in this post.
I called her out a while back for some specific false statements she made, including her lie that the vaccine court has “ruled” that evidence exists that vaccines cause autism. Rather than correct her error, she has edited her blog piece to double down and intentionally mislead her readers.
Since Megan does not permit critical posts on her blog (unlike Jennifer, obviously) I will probably not be able to show her readers how they are being tricked. But since a fair number of them seem to come here, or come from here given how much traffic the spammers are trying to redirect, hopefully they will read this duplicate of the comment I tried to leave there. (And hopefully, knowledge that she can’t prevent people from finding out about her deceptions will shame her into correcting her deceptive piece.)
This is just one error in a piece filled with them, of course, but we can’t be the editors to the world.
—–
Hi Megan,
I see you added a link to support your claim that the “the vaccine court has ruled that evidence of a causal relationship between autism and MMR exists.” But did you read that document? It does not support your claim. The OSM did not make any findings of fact regarding the evidence in that order.
It is a decision rendering judgment based on HHS’s concession that the claimant suffered a Table Injury. Under 42 U.S. Code §§ 300aa-11(c)(1)(C) and 300aa-13(a)(1), causation isn’t even an element of a claim for a Table Injury. If the claimant proves or HHS concedes that a Table Injury occurred, the court doesn’t reach causation.
In the case you cited, the claimant alleged things they didn’t need to prove, which is a very common practice in litigation. HHS conceded that the injured child suffered encephalitis, a Table Injury, within the necessary timeframe.
The document you cited does not support any claim that the vaccine court has ruled that evidence of a causal connection between autism and vaccines exists.
Given the opportunity to correct an error, you chose instead to double down. You are actively misleading your readers. I know the facts are uncomfortable for you on this point, but that’s not relevant to your ethical obligation to not lie to your readers.
I know that you take serious steps to delete comments that challenge your preconceptions. I fully expect you to delete this comment as well, but hope that challenging your ego will encourage you to leave it up in partial fulfillment of your ethical obligations. To that end, I will post a duplicate of this comment at Violent Metaphors, which does not censor content for ideological reasons.
This article states that children get more aluminum from breast milk or formula (and from environmental sources too I’d imagine) than they do from vaccines. I am curious to know if you have information on the differences between ingesting and injecting aluminum as I remember learning about the first pass effect and wonder if it would change anything here? Also, I am just curious to know if the author is a parent or not? I know this is written from a scientific standpoint however study something and living it are very different learning experiences. Thank you
It’s a fair rejoinder to point out that vaccines involve injected rather than ingested aluminum. But there’s no point quibbling over the analogy–the science is in on aluminum injected through vaccines. A study (not the first!) took into account:
“- an updated list of recommended vaccines for infants
– baseline aluminum levels at birth
– more recent information on how the body accumulates aluminum
– new information on how the infant kidney filters out potentially toxic substances from the blood
– more accurate information on how quickly aluminum spreads away from the site of vaccine injections and into the body
– the latest information on safety levels for aluminum in the body
– the most recent information on infant weights from age 0 to 60 months”,
and found that “the body burden of aluminum from vaccines and diet throughout an infant’s first year of life is significantly less than the corresponding safe body burden of aluminum, based on the minimal risk levels established by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.”
Scientists have been working on a vaccine against late-onset adult stupidity, but the problem is, whenever they are able to vaccinate someone and successfully dispel a certain myth or misinformed association, they find that their stupidity will randomly form somewhere else in another issue. In short, you may convince someone that Obama was not born necessarily born in Kenya, but then that person might suddenly deny the overwhelming scientific evidence of climate change or measles vaccines for children. In many cases studies, the evidence illustrates that some stupid people will revert back to their previously misinformed stupid beliefs due to a new, stronger strain of denial and gullibility. Imho, I think sometimes, it’s just best to let certain stupid people lie and ride it out ~ Attempting to combat their stupidity with science or facts or reality is likely to do more harm than good in the long run and could even conceivably lead to a super-pandemic of stupidity, like a painful form of time travel, where you can only go backwards.
Brilliant. I think more research needs to be done into late onset adult stupidity. 😉
oh, and there’s this:
but it’s probably some kind of verbal slight of hand, if you want to believe it is hard enough.
This sentence in your post bothers me:
“They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine. They aren’t.”
I don’t think natural or alternative and science-based are mutually exclusive approaches. In some cases, albeit I wouldn’t argue that vaccination is one of those cases, the natural or alternative remedy is better than an allopathic remedy. Neither approach inherently accepts or denies science. I know this article is about vaccines, but as a stand alone concept – the way it is presented here – is wrong. And setting CAM vs Science on opposite sides with this kind of vehemence does just as much to enrage CAM practitioners as non-vaccinators do to enrage vaccinators. I vaccinate my children, I understand herd immunity, but I take GREAT offense at characterizing all natural/alternative approaches as non-scientific. Allopathic medicine does not have a exclusive lock on “science.”
I believe the “natural remedies aren’t better” thing was directly speaking to vaccine versus treating vaccine-illnesses. *shrug*
I read this fascinating thread and kept thinking: please don’t feed the idiot trolls.
For me it is a very, very, very good thing that this section of the community rejects vaccination as this means that their offspring will die out in greater numbers and so have less chance to breed, pass on their inability to interpret overwhelming data, and muck up good public health policy for the world my (properly vaccinated) kids will inherit.
Sounding off on a forum has no effect, but their choices do. We also already have a surfeit of people on this planet so a few less is no biggie.
I am pro-vax, but I have to say that being glad that the offspring of antivaxxers will die off in greater numbers borders on an almost emotionless schadenfreude, don’t you think?
Whether we are pro or antivax, we love our children. Antivaxxers do not inoculate because of a misguided fear that vaccines are 100% unsafe and 100% toxic. They skip vaccines because they love their children and don’t want them to suffer. Though that reasoning is misinformed and unfounded, it comes from a place of love for their children.
Provaxxers inoculate out of love as well, to protect their children from suffering needlessly.
To express relief at a higher child mortality rate among the antivax community is callous, especially when viewed alongside the fact that not every child grows up to be a carbon copy of their parents’ ideas and beliefs.
Thanks Jennifer. Your comment stream has engendered the first belly laugh I have had in days! I knew that the state of science education in the States was pretty bad, but I really didn’t think it was *this* bad. Big Pharma test nothing! Everyone who says that vaccines work is a Shill! Medicines are toxic! We’re all going to die!
They brought this to mind: https://xkcd.com/1013/
Sorry that you have to deal with this level of half-understood biology, snake oil salesmen and urban myths.
If parents would vaccinate, I would have not gotten the chicken pox at age 32 from their unvaccinated 5year old. I ended up missing work for 2 weeks. Fortunately, we caught it early and I was able to avoid complications that occur in adults. Now, I just have to deal with shingles when I am run down and under stress. Still too young to get the vaccine, have to wait until I’m 62 for that.
The parents thought it was funny when they were told by a mutual friend.
Chicken Pox is not funny, and the long term effects are not either.
Why didn’t you get the vaccination yourself? I’m a little confused….. You said you are too young for the vaccination, but the 5yo should have had it? Not a challenge, I’m obviously missing something here?
Sorry it took so long to reply marytoo. I am too young to get the shingles vaccine, it is only for, I believe 60+. The child, of course was young enough for the chicken pox vaccination. Shingles is a reactivation of the virus along the nerves in the body, when the immune system is not keeping it in check. When I work too many hours, get tired and rundown and my immune system is working overtime I will have flare-ups of the virus which is called shingles. Basically it is the same as chicken pox, but has a different nomenclature and diagnosis since it is not the first time, primary infection.
I read the “Dear Parents You are being lied to” — and I agree: this pro-vaccine propaganda article is full of lies and half-truths… This article is nothing but propaganda… I have personally reviewed the “independent” studies on vaccine efficacy and safety (most of them finance by the big pharma and in fact not “independent at all and fraught with conflict of interest. Only having thoroughly reviewed the data (including from the FDA) on the safety of aluminum in vaccines, only AFTER having ACTUALLY reviewed the studies supporting the safety of vaccines as well as indicating opposite — I have decided to NOT vaccinate my child. If you want an ACTUAL analysis and the ACTUAL research pro and con, read the The Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for Your Child (Sears Parenting Library) By Dr. Sears — a former Boston Children’s Hospital pediatrician, who is actually a vaccine proponent and supporter. ONLY AFTER you YOURSELF HAVE READ the actual studies, examined the evidence pro and con, examined the people behind these studies — only THEN please make your decision on the topic. Failing that, you are sadly merely repeating the propaganda you hear from either side… Almost every statement in the article above these comments is either a half-truth or a carefully manufactured lie… nothing more than propaganda…
My son received his 4 moth vaccines, which contains strep, pneumococcal, and meningococcal vaccines. The body take up to 14 days to for the vaccine to take effect. 12 days after his vaccines, he was diagnosed with 9 CVAs and over 30 TIAs secondary to STREP-PNEUMO MENINGITIS… The EXACT thing he was collectively vaccinated for.
After this incident, my son could no longer receive any vaccines of any sort due to his pituitary gland being blocked and not being able to produce a “stressor” hormone to fight infection. He also lived in the hospital for a year; everyone knows you pick up more illnesses in a hospital than anywhere else. Yet, he never once contracted any other illness after stopping vaccines. He later died at 15 months secondary to kidney failure and encephalitis secondary to the strokes.
I have a 3 year old and 5 month old twins right now. They have all received their vaccines.
However, for everyone to put blame on people who chose not to get their child/children vaccinated is obscured. A lot of people who DON’T get their children vaccinated have a lot better reason for the choice they chose than those who do “just because the Dr. said to.” Like I said, all my kids are vaccinated, but insure as hell don’t blame anyone who opts out for doing so.
If you want to educate someone, that is fine. But enough of blaming or degrading them for their choices. And that goes for both sides of the argument. Just try to understand that you might not know everything behind a persons decision.
I am responding to this, just to say that I am so, so sorry for the loss of your son, and from one mother to another, I am sending you lots of love, hugs, and warmth.
No, I haven’t read ALL of the comments, so forgive me if I repeat…I am just wondering what thoughts and responses are on MTHFR mutations and vaccinations. There is more research needed, but theory and growing concern that people who have this genetic mutation may be more susceptible to negative vaccine reaction.
Since I’m commenting, I’ll add that not all non-vaxers are ignorant and uninformed. Not ALL people should receive vaccinations…just read the vaccine information insert provided by the manufacturer…there is a list of people who should not receive vaccines.
Curious just how many people actually do read the inserts before vaccinating? I found it interesting and disturbing that the Merck MMR insert lists diabetes and arthritis as adverse reactions. Hmmm…so the manufacturers own research lists chronic health conditions that affect millions of people and cost billions of dollars in healthcare expenses as an adverse reaction, yet there is no cause for questioning, concern, or further research into the long term effects? And this is where money and politics come into play. Such an association would basically cripple the pharmaceutical industry in lawsuits. Vaccines do work at what they are designed to do, but I don’t think anyone can say at this point with 100% certainty that they are “safe” for our long term health.
It drives me crazy that there are still so many selfish people living in this country that spark the writing of these type of articles. I am not usually one to have a rant on any of these forums but recently I became someone who has experienced first hand the devastating effects of contracting one of these preventable illnesses and I hope that perhaps maybe my experience could change just one persons viewpoint. I lost a baby 20 weeks into my pregnancy last December. It was later revealed that I had contracted the Rubella infection during the first few weeks of pregnancy, before we even knew we were expecting. Being in the Military, you can expect I am well immunised – it turns out that I am just one of those unfortunate people who the immunisation did not work for and the person who is most at risk when people make the choice to not vaccinate themselves and their children. Had the pregnancy not ended by itself, there was a 90% chance that our child would have been born with a major congenital abnormality (Deaf, Blind, Heart defect, Intellectual disability, Impaired growth, Inflammation of various organs such as the brain, liver or lungs). Before this experience, I knew nothing about Rubella. I didn’t know that the reason I received this vaccination at 11 years of age was to protect me against this exact thing happening and that women planning on falling pregnant should have a booster shot three months prior to conceiving for this reason. Sadly this virus is still getting around with 12 reported Rubella infections in NSW, Australia last year. Who knows how many go unreported – most people probably never know they had it in the first place. I didn’t at the time. For those who choose not to vaccinate their children, especially their daughters in this instance – does the perceived risk of the vaccination really out weigh this risk? I would not wish this experience on any other female, especially my own daughter. Losing a child at any stage in pregnancy, and giving birth to a dead or severely disabled child is a heartbreaking experience for anyone and in this case it CAN be avoided. I believe that people should have freedom of choice to make their own decisions – but not when your own children and others lives are put at risk.
I’m not anti-vaccine, but I am anti-self-righteous. Which science-based medicine are you speaking of? The one from 10 years ago? The one of today? Or maybe the one of 10 years from now. They will all have different things to say about what is healthy. The problem with your “facts” is that they’re only good until the next fact comes along. The real fact is, science is limited by the imagination of the scientists who wield it and the money of the parties who fund it. Clearly, you’re techno-based western medical perspective causes you to despise anything you can’t reference in a peer-reviewed article. How limiting that must be for you. And I wonder what rationalizations you create when one of those “facts” turns out to be not so fact. Science has brought us a long way. But it wasn’t pompous self-righteousness that got us here. It was people willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. Maybe vaccines aren’t all that bad, or maybe they have caused inter-generational biological or genetic deficiencies that are reacting with increased in utero levels of chemicals like BPA resulting in an increased vulnerability to neuropsychological and biological deficits/disorders. I don’t have a reference for that and I’m pretty sure its not true. My point is, don’t pretend that a few studies of the micro, short-term, small scale effects of something gives you the whole picture. I know how much you crave a feeling of control and understanding in this world, but I think a few great minds have said something like “true knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing” (reference, 450BC).
CDUB – Was there a point that you were trying to make amidst all that verbage?
http://stevemccabe.net/vaccines-science-open-minds/
I love how people who aren’t raising children with autism are talking crap on it like us parents make it up because watching our child go through it is fun or something. Why is it that parents who have no idea think they have room to talk, but parents with kids on the spectrum are either adamant about things or have suspicions but aren’t confirmed??? What about “walking a mile in their shoes” before judging or throwing a stone. Just my two cents.
This article has so many contradictions, it’s unreal. Lies, lies, lies. I wonder if the author of this is related to a pharm rep or had someone they were close to die because of a “vaccine-preventalbe illness”. Can’t figure out why someone would put so much garbage out there otherwise.
I’d also invite anyone who thinks autism doesn’t exist to spend a DAY with my child in his autism special ed classroom or a few hours of the 25 hours/week therapy he receives. Let’s not even get onto the talk of supplements, diet, doctor(s x 12) visits, etc. Yeah, I LOVE being in medical debt so I made this up. Umm… no.
Kelsi, I walk in your shoes every day. It was the MMR that caused my son damage. I empathize and support you.
There are people in the world who naturally cannot process a mulch-facited issue – an issue that lacks a concrete right and wrong, yes or no, black or white answer. Their brains just don’t do that. Extremists on both ends of politics are thought to posses this characteristic. We humans are all also capable of what George Orwell coined as “doublethink.” Lastly, and probably for evolutionary reasons, we are extremely tribally/team oriented. Us and them. We will deny, block out facts and flat out go against our own judgement to defend our team. We will vote for one candidate more because we do not want the opponent than because we like who we are voting for. Aren’t we a funny little species?
This was a very long way of leading up to saying that though this seems simple (science vs well…not science) this debate is the tip of a very messed up iceberg (that is melting, by the way). For instance, the situation is complicated by the fact that big pharma DOES exist, we know this. Treating people instead of curing them is the thing to do, and we are all starting to suspect we are over medicated ( though some of us are and some of us are not) Additionally, there ARE scientists who will fake data to gain notoriety, AND the FDA does approve drugs that turn out later to be dangerous. What to do! This is indeed terrifying but thankfully, those of us with the capability to embrace ambiguity can accept that this does not mean that all medicines are bad, or no research has ever been done and/or that the government is controlling you through your toothpaste. (I have to add my favorite responses to the Hitler/toothpaste dilemma: water can kill you if you have too much or too little of it. Also, the potassium in your banana is yummy but in pure form is explosive- but your banana shall not explode thanks to the miracle of science). It is also hard to ignore how profitable vaccines can be – safeway gives you points for getting your whooping cough vaccine for pete’s sake!
We are terrified that we are being lied to (we often are), poisoned (that too), taken advantage of (24/7). But we need to use our brains and sift out real information from crazytown.
In conclusion (am I getting credit for this?) we need to accept that not all doctors are evil, and vaccines are helpful. (Unless you are one of those people worried about over-population, in which case, vaccines are part of the problem(?) )
If you are ever wondering in a debate, who is right, look at which one is angrier and choose the other guy.
Are you aware that there has been a vaccine to prevent feline aids for many years? There are many strains of hiv/aids invluding a monkey strain and of course the human strain. We can not catch theirs and they cannot catch our strain. Hiv is a difficult virus to defeat as it hides itself inside other cells so that the immune system memory cells cannot find and try to attack it (I’m trying to write this as easy to understand as possible)
Some of you people who are anti vaccinists
should be aware that scientists are already very close to a vaccine for human aids, however there is strict laws that mean
intensive tests must be run for many years
before they are ever available for physicians
and the public … even though a vaccine may already be developed, we may never see them in our life time.
Are you also aware there are injections for dogs that help with arthritis. Cartrophen is the drug name. I have personally seen many an
old dog over the last decade hobble into a vet in great pain and four weeks later bounce in …. keep in mind people, even though our joints work in the same way, there are no such injections for us. Even though these drugs could make our elderly’s lives so much better
and painfree (or at least much more comfortable). Unfortunately, it will be years before humans can getcsome relief again because of this vigorous testing.
Are you aware how the first vaccine for smallpox was developed? While many people were falling ill with smallpox over time it was noticed that the milk maids were not being struck down with it … it was found that something in cows milk (ones that had previously been infected with cowpox) was preventing these milk maids from contracting it 🙂 …hence the vaccine was found!
If vaccines are so good then why do Amish have very few diseases? The few they do have, are genetic due to the low population. The government has been lying to us about the medical effects of “marijuana” for decades, NSA spying, and eroding our rights. Why would anyone trust them with their health? Why are military personnel given small pox shots, when the disease has been eradicated from the human population for decades? What other chemicals are in these vaccines? Things that are truly good, will never require compliance.
The military are given smallpox shots because smallpox still exists in biological weapons and disease labs. It is not “in the wild”.
Amish do get diseases, and went measles hits them, it hits them pretty hard: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1984459
They don’t get them often because they tend to isolate themselves from the general population, and most of the vaccine preventable diseases are no longer endemic to the United States.
http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/
http://vaxtruth.org/2011/09/proof-that-vaccines-did-not-save-us/
Well stated, Doctor. Unfortunately, as the amount of available information has exploded in recent years, so has the amount of bullshit contained therein. Scientists are tasked with combating this bullshit, but are increasingly outnumbered. Keep fighting.
Reblogged this on mormors-hallon and commented:
Thank you for being convincing, thourough, fact based, persuasive and timely!
I would like to make one comment: Science is NOT perfect and has been proven wrong (as well as corrupt) on many, many occasions (DDT; smoking; mercury; lead; the current debate on GMOs which a GROWING number of countries are rejecting; antibiotics and what about cholesterol!!!). I choose not to vaccinate either myself or anyone in my household because I have read enough to make me seriously question the validity of vaccines. I do not agree with the US forcing people to vaccinate because it is against their very constitution and another form of ultimate control.
I have read a number of very good books including (but not limited to) The vaccine guide by Neustaedter, Fear of the invisible by Roberts, The vaccine bible by McTaggart. All of these have references and although some are not written by professionals in a relevant field, some ARE and reference professional sources. A growing number of doctors are questioning the ethics and functioning of their profession which must say something about the trust we place in them. A few years ago physiotherapy was an ‘alternative’ form of practicing medicine, as was acupuncture, but now, both are well accepted.
A doctor will generally only see you for about 5 mins whenever you might visit them. Do you really think they are concerned with your health or more with getting through as many patients as possible? Moreover, if you go to three doctors, you will very likely get three different answers. Are they the ones who will have to live with the consequences of whatever they do to you or give you? Who is ultimately responsible for your health? YOU are. So whatever you choose to do, make sure you know as much as you can before you act.
You’re totally right. Science is not perfect. But it IS the best method we have for obtaining the truth. Take a look at the scientific method; does it get any simpler or more common sense? Sadly there is a disconnect between scientists and the general public because of our education system.
Also, you have an amazingly sh1tty attitude about MDs. While YOU may be ultimately responsible for your own health, that doesn’t instantaneously make you smarter than an MD who studied for 8+ years to become a physician.
Dunning-Kruger effect in full bloom here, folks.
This is one of the most glaring examples of why science reasoning is important to our society. Science-bashing is literally killing children.
Pharmaceutical companies don’t create cures. They create customers. We don’t bash science. We bash big pharm. For-profit science is killing humanity.
We’re not trusting “big pharma”. Big pharma is just as capable of selling homeopathic drugs, if people buy them. They do have a predilection for selling things that work, but that just natural. I’m trusting scientists (few of them work for pharmaceuticals) and doctors.
Science and medicine have improved people’s life expectancy enormously in the last decades. Vaccines were responsible for the eradication of many diseases. Do they have side effects? Yes, they do. But their benefits are vastly superior.
Read Ben Goldracke. He is one powerful enemy of Big Pharma and he explains how the anti-vaxx industry is pseudo-science.
Exactly. I recommend both “Bad Science” and “Bad Pharma”. Excellent books.
Hello Dr. Raff,
The work of Dr. John Ionnidis seems to raise some interesting questions that largely go unanswered, yet play an increasingly important role regarding the quality of science in the field of medicine.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
Further here are a few questions that I often pose to professionals like yourself in hopes of stimulating discussions about utilizing sound deductive reasoning when thinking about the legitimacy of the “science” behind vaccines:
1) Why should we trust the subjective findings of a vaccine manufacturer? In no other medical science does the legitimate and objective use of the scientific method get more bastardized than here? Asking, much less expecting an entity built on shareholders, and boards of directors, to put their product/research up for peer review, is impossible, hence it doesn’t happen. If there is no peer review, there is no reproduction of the methodology that gives the purveyor their results. This is in fact, not, the scientific method in any sense of the term. Imagine if NASA or the NOAA performed their functions only internally with no peer review….and kept their research purposefully private.
2) If vaccines are so safe, why are the manufacturers the only entity in the US to be afforded such Congressional protections as the 1986 law preventing citizens their right to sue for civil liability? This right is afforded exactly zero other special interests. This effectively makes you and I second class citizens.
3) The DOT considers vaccines to be hazardous materials if spilled on the road. How then can they be considered safe to inject into neonates?
4) The VAERS database catalogs injuries and deaths via the CDC, which are then paid for by federal tax dollars. Why isn’t this told to patients?
5) How can vaccine science be considered legitimate, when the samples are so small and the outcomes/data sets are only reviewed in house? Can we really trust Merk’s findings when they tested a vaccine on only .0000004% of the population, and further there is no external review, until the vaccine or its batch are recalled of course. I would argue that the consumer deserves to have their collective hands on the research.
Thanks,
Rik
Good job Rik!!
Hi Rik,
You seem to be assuming your conclusions regarding the lack of peer review for vaccines. When you say there is “no external review,” what about the pre- and post-licensure studies? And is this materially different than the way chemotherapy or antimicrobial drugs are developed?
As an attorney and not a scientist, let me speak to some of your misconceptions from my perspective. First, it’s not true that vaccine manufacturers are “the only entity in the US to be afforded such Congressional protections.” Lots of actors are exempt from various legal liabilities. My favorite example is the post office—you cannot sue them for losing a package, period. And yet they have a great record for safe delivery of packages. Similarly, the fact that you can’t sue a vaccine manufacturer under one specific type of products liability (the others are still fair game in courts) hasn’t prevented them from achieving a remarkably positive safety record. Off the top of my head, other private industries with similar “Congressional” protection include firearms manufacturers and the nuclear power industry. Any industry where litigation would substantially distort the market without actually protecting the public is a good candidate for public policy exemptions from standard tort liability.
Second, I don’t know why you think the DOT would consider a load of vaccines to be hazardous; can you cite some regulation, please? If it’s just that some vaccines contain things like formaldehyde, I’m not sure whether that counts—a truck full of apples isn’t carrying “hazardous” cargo. Besides, DOT doesn’t determine whether medical products are hazardous for medical use, any more than the FDA determines what size wheels trucks should use. Transportation guidelines are using an entirely different set of criteria. Sodium chloride is a hazardous material apparently, and that gets injected into people in significant quantities every day.
Firstly, the pre and post licensure studies are not mandated. Nor do all vaccines use them. Secondly, they are not completing the full inclusion of all of the most important aspects of the scientific method.
Interesting Colin that you would use the PO as an analogy for civil liability protections yet, the federal government is protected en masse. In addition, the PO in no way has an effect negative or positive on millions of peoples individual health. When I was in the military, I had no legal recourse when things went wrong either. You can sue the government to alter policy or government but largely not sue them for civil damages.
The nuclear power sector is operated largely by such federal controls and mandates that it might as well be a federal industry. The firearms industry is not again being mandated by states departments of health as a mandatory protocol for health.
The DOT is indeed in a position at the behest of the FDA and CDC to classify many of the ingredients in vaccines as hazardous, see the DOT’s: Class 6, Division 6.2 – Infectious Substances (49 CFR 173. 134.
Different vaccines will fall in part under 1 of 6 different subcategories.
Comparing biological substances grown in other biological substances, purposefully cultured monera in a substrate of neurotoxic classified hazardous materials, is, my friend hazardous material, and not apples according to at least 3 federal agencies. So your premise that viruses grown in a porcine blood substrate is the same as sodium chloride, falls flat. Almost to the point of being purposefully misleading.
As an attorney? For who Richard Nash, the big Pharma!! I have been on these kinds of forums a whole lot and on all of them, lurk people like you. I bet you even know Dorit Reiss as well, don’t you? lol
I can’t make out the context of your reply. Could you clarify?
Anonymous,
I’m not practicing as an attorney now; I teach negotiation skills and consult in negotiations for a variety of corporate and non-profit clients. Some of my clients are in the medical field, but no one that has anything to do with vaccines (whether manufacturing, testing, distributing—nothing). When I was a litigator, most of my work was plaintiffs’-side financial fraud stuff, although we had a pretty good mix. My clients were (and still mostly are) finance and physical industry, like real estate developers and construction-management firms. I do know who Dorit Reiss is, although I’ve never spoken with her. I think her write-ups of the vaccine court are great. She’s very good at explaining complex technical legal matters simply, which is quite difficult.
Richard,
I’ll assume that you’re right about the pre- and post-studies. I’m still not sure how, or whether, vaccine licensure differs materially from any other medical approval. Are peer-reviewed studies mandated for the approval of new cancer treatments?
The rest of your comment seems to be a lengthy way of saying that you have definite opinions on the matter, but do you actually disagree with what I wrote? It is common to relieve various actors of litigation liabilities, including the federal government and various industrial actors. Typically those actors, including vaccine makers, are subject to intensive regulatory action.
If what you want is an example of a mandated product that is immune from certain claims (this is such a specific point it seems like you’re reaching just to argue), I think flood insurance qualifies. It’s mandatory, and if I recall correctly you can only sue under the contract or prescribed federal law, not under state law or with common law claims. And ERISA preemption probably would give us a whole host of other examples, but frankly I’m not going to bother to check. ERISA is boring, boring stuff.
As for the DOT, it does not consider the safety of medical products when used as medical products. You obviously know that, so I can’t imagine what kind of serious point you could have other than to spread vaccine FUD.
Vaccines, like sodium chloride, are DOT-hazardous. Vaccines, like sodium chloride, are nevertheless safe when used by trained medical personnel for approved purposes with approved methods. The sub-part of the DOT regulations you’re using is irrelevant to the logic here.
The DOT determines whether material is hazardous to transport, not whether it’s hazardous to use under a doctor’s supervision. They are vastly different questions, as is illustrated by the various things that are safe to inject despite being DOT-hazardous (like sodium chloride, blood products, organs, oxygen, etc.).
Pointing to the DOT and saying, “But it’s hazardous!” is just scaremongering—it’s intended to make people feel icky about vaccines without making any logical or rational point that’s relevant to their safety or use. It’s a good example of the kind of lying the main article is talking about.
Colin, Your use of cancer treatment screenings or protocol methodologies is a red herring. It has exactly zero to do with the topic at hand. Fo the record though, cancer protocols do follow a very broken version of the scientific method, similar to what the closed field of vaccine manufacturers practice.
Please provide the “intensive regulatory action” in which vaccines operate. This is a rhetorical exercise at best. That is because there is very little, hence we see vaccines undergo heavy alterations from year to year, and sometimes from batch to batch. The real trial begins when the vaccine is administered to the public at large. Every year since 1991 a vaccine or two has been removed from the “marketplace” because of its unintended yet dangerous side effects. For instance, the only 3 break outs of polio in the world have come from WHO operations administering the polio vaccine to a population in which there was no polio present previously. Those vaccines were then scrapped for others. Do you mean to say that those people should have no legal recourse, that is to say, that there should be no liability, zero accountability? If it happened here in the states, the cost is deferred to the tax payer. This is special treatment, no?
Comparing neurological poisons to sodium chloride is not going to get you any were with me, despite your illogical take.
Saying they are the same, and not describing why the CDC/DOT, classifies them in different categories is at a minimum intellectual dishonesty. Sodium chloride does not require a state certified Haz-Mat team for clean up, yet the MMR vaccine does. Why?
Scaremongering? Why is that always the default presupposition for the folks who have such an ill understanding of the bad science within this industry, and the legitimate non-understanding of the actual contents in vaccines?
Colin, its not just formaldehyde. Here is a short list of other ingredients, not including unintended contaminants or other DNA materials and by-products:
Phenols, all aluminium derivatives, hexadecyltrimethylammonium bromide, glutaraldhyde,
Colin, Your use of cancer treatment screenings or protocol methodologies is a red herring. It has exactly zero to do with the topic at hand. Fo the record though, cancer protocols do follow a very broken version of the scientific method, similar to what the closed field of vaccine manufacturers practice.
Please provide the “intensive regulatory action” in which vaccines operate. This is a rhetorical exercise at best. That is because there is very little, hence we see vaccines undergo heavy alterations from year to year, and sometimes from batch to batch. The real trial begins when the vaccine is administered to the public at large. Every year since 1991 a vaccine or two has been removed from the “marketplace” because of its unintended yet dangerous side effects. For instance, the only 3 break outs of polio in the world have come from WHO operations administering the polio vaccine to a population in which there was no polio present previously. Those vaccines were then scrapped for others. Do you mean to say that those people should have no legal recourse, that is to say, that there should be no liability, zero accountability? If it happened here in the states, the cost is deferred to the tax payer. This is special treatment, no?
Comparing neurological poisons to sodium chloride is not going to get you any were with me, despite your illogical take.
Saying they are the same, and not describing why the CDC/DOT, classifies them in different categories is at a minimum intellectual dishonesty. Sodium chloride does not require a state certified Haz-Mat team for clean up, yet the MMR vaccine does. Why?
Scaremongering? Why is that always the default presupposition for the folks who have such an ill understanding of the bad science within this industry, and the legitimate non-understanding of the actual contents in vaccines?
Colin, its not just formaldehyde. Here is a short list of other ingredients, not including unintended contaminants or other DNA materials and by-products:
Phenols, all aluminium derivatives, hexadecyltrimethylammonium bromide, glutaraldhyde, acetones, 4 different alcohols etc.
If by any chance you would like to speak to the safety of these chemicals through any peer reviewed literature pertaining to neonates, I would be more than happy to listen.
Richard,
The logic behind my comparison to cancer treatments (or any other pharma) approval is very simple—the argument was that vaccines aren’t subject to “the scientific method” and/or peer review, to a greater extent than any other drug or product (per the original comment). I don’t know all that much about the details of the process. If the process is materially similar to that used for other pharma, that’s relevant to the consideration of whether vaccines are truly less subject to such scrutiny.
You question where the “intensive regulatory action” regarding vaccines is, then cite several examples of vaccines pulled from the market. That’s a self-refuting statement. And it’s not the case that people legitimately injured by vaccines “have no legal recourse.” They have an entire subset of the Court of Federal Claims dedicated to their cases. (The cost for such claims is not simply “deferred to the tax payer;” it’s paid by the vaccine makers who have to eat at least part of that cost due to the elasticity of vaccine demand.) I’m increasingly certain that you’re just arguing for the sake of argument.
Your DOT arguments are beyond silly. Consider blood products or organs—they would also require hazardous material labeling and special cleanup if spilled. And yet, neither plasma nor kidneys are dangerous to put in your body when done properly under the supervision of medical professionals.
Yes, your comment is scaremongering. The argument that vaccines are hazardous materials under DOT rules (like blood, organs, and other medical products) has no logical relation to whether they’re safe as actually used. Listing ingredients because they sound scary has no logical relation to whether they’re actually dangerous as actually used. These arguments have no purpose other than to make people feel fear about vaccines—they’re not based in reason or logic to any extent.
I’m sorry, but you don’t appear to have anything of substance to say. Please feel free to have the last word.
Dr. Raff,
I want to preface this with I am not one of these hyperactive anti-vaccine activists who think all vaccines cause ASD (autism spectrum disorders) and should be banned from use immediately. Rather, I am a person who believes the revised recommendations in the mid 80’s/90’s of vaccine schedules in children under the age of 12 to 18 months should be reviewed by a legitimate university for the efficacy and, most of all, the safety of these vaccines in children. Big Pharma and even the CDC should be exempt from this study as the political ties to the Pharmaceutical industry are too close.
I am not sure how long you have been a medical doctor, or what type of medical doctor you are, but look back to the 60’s 70’s and the 80’s medical literature and see the incidence of autism or ASD diagnosis (autism spectrum disorders). I am not inferring there is a correlation between inoculations and ASD because I don’t have the ability to run these scientific studies, however, I do have deductive and logical reasoning skills. Why now? Was it lack of education that these conditions actually existed back then, but were not diagnosed?
In your blog you indicate that measles, the flu, whooping cough, and chicken pox have the potential to being either deadly or can in themselves be life threatening. And I don’t dispute this claim as the CDC shows this is plausible and has happened. What is more plausible is the incidence of a severe adverse reaction from the individual inoculations for each disease/condition than death or morbidity from the actual disease we are attempting to prevent.
Rather than bore you with individual statistical data from the CDC’s website (you should have already reviewed this data prior to your blog), a quick synopsis can be appreciated. Essentially, severe adverse reactions occur 1 in 1,000 inoculations administered (this is on average, and to what is actually reported, and I say “what is reported” lightly because if the attending physician does not believe the patient is actually having an adverse reaction from the inoculation, there is a strong possibility the reaction symptoms can go unreported). However, death or serious illness occurring from these conditions you listed, occur in the average range of 1 in 100,000 thousand patients out to 1 in 1,000,000 for the less medically severe condition. This might be because these diseases were almost extinct, but regardless, the inoculations were being administered.
This is for severe adverse reactions (life threatening seizures and elevated temperatures that cause encephalitis leading to morbidity of the patient, etc…). This is not even touching on the possibility of ASD being caused by these inoculations (obviously no one has a direct correlation to this, yet). So, how, being a medical doctor, can you say with reasonable certainty these vaccines are safer than managing the symptoms of these rare, viral (majority of), conditions that actually affect so little of our population? I am only bringing to light the incidents of severe adverse reactions, and I am not even referring to moderate to frequently less severe, adverse reactions which happen at a greater rate than 1 in 1,000.
I understand these conditions are highly contagious, however, some of these conditions the actual full blown illness is still less severe than the possibility of the severe adverse reactions of the inoculations themselves. Furthermore, the incidences of actually acquiring these conditions is still rare although the media outcry is bringing these to light. How many headlines read: “Infant in critical condition after receiving MMR vaccine?” You’re more likely to read: “3 yr old child diagnosed with measles last week from local day care,” of which the 3 yr old will likely make a full recovery and the infant will have a life full of medical miss-adventures and complications.
Something has changed over the past 20 years, and it may take 20 years to figure it out. Again, I am not against vaccines, I vaccinated my three children, just at a different schedule than was recommended by the department of health. It may be as simple as amending the schedule of the vaccines to prevent the severe adverse reactions. For all we know it could be all the chemicals and hormones being injected into the foods we are feeding our families that are banned from other countries causing ASD. Regardless, no one can deny the statistics that show the increased incidences of ASD. Unless we as a society, medical or otherwise, want to resolve this and not accept the current status quo as acceptable, we can make a positive impact for our children’s future.
I’m not her, but when you say that you want “the revised recommendations in the mid 80′s/90′s of vaccine schedules in children under the age of 12 to 18 months [to] be reviewed by a legitimate university for the efficacy and, most of all, the safety of these vaccines in children,” are you aware that the schedule has in fact been studied? The Institute of Medicine, a branch of the National Academy for Sciences, has report analyzing the relevant literature.
“In your blog you indicate that measles, the flu, whooping cough, and chicken pox have the potential to being either deadly or can in themselves be life threatening. And I don’t dispute this claim as the CDC shows this is plausible and has happened. What is more plausible is the incidence of a severe adverse reaction from the individual inoculations for each disease/condition than death or morbidity from the actual disease we are attempting to prevent.”
Why do you say that’s more plausible? What’s the evidentiary basis for that conclusion?
I’m also curious where you got your numbers; can you cite a source for the proposition that “severe adverse reactions” happen in 1 of 1,000 vaccines?
Simply stated, I would like to see all ingredients in the vaccine listed with all their “alternative” names. I would like to see Material Safety Data Sheets on all ingredients. Let every person make their own EDUCATED and INFORMED decision. Remember 90% of statistics can be twisted properly to give any predetermined outcome.
You can do that yourself Roland, you won’t get the truth here. Go to vaclib.org, or NVIC.org, there you will find all you know, including the ingredients of each vaccine. Then if you are still not satisfied, type in what is: and then put in whatever you want to be defined. The one thing we have going for us, is this computer, otherwise everyone in the whole world would still be blinded. Even if you just google, what’s in vaccines, you should get the results.
‘Vaccines were responsible for the eradication of many diseases.’ Why not take the time to read ‘Dissolving Illusions, Disease, Vaccines and the Forgotten History’ and find out why that statement is simply not true.
Which appears to be a self-published vanity project. Why credit that over the weight of all the peer-reviewed research that contradicts her conclusions?
They do not have to create a cure, a lot of viruses do this thing called mutate. It brings in plenty of work for them to do. By people not vaccinating the viruses have a bigger pool of humans to mutate in and get way nastier. You have brought medical science back about 20 years.
Was Louis Pasture part of “Big Pharm”?
Anonymous(e), you have cause and effect reversed. Because “Big Pharma” creates cures, “Big Pharma” has customers! It is goofy people like you who make this world a dumber place. [I do not apologize for the harsh words but I cannot reach out to you and give you a SLAP on the back of your head.] If you want to be an ignoramus, if you want to remain ignoramus, that is fine by me; but go bury your head in the sand and let the rest of us get on with living in reality.
Yes, I am a scientist! I have a degree in Physics; my career has been spent working in chemistry labs; I read and learn as much as I can about science-related issues.
Apparently, you would rather shout your ignorance to the world than try to learn what pharmaceutical companies actually do!
Mr Scientist, I am not the one you were speaking to, but will agree with the one who said that the big Pharma doesn’t create cures, they create customers…yes, that’s the truth! Since you are so bloody smart, tell me about the group of fluoroqinolones and why they are dishing these out like candy?? They are never to be given to anyone unless it’s an absolute emergency and nothing else will work. Tell me about how they are killing people, putting them in wheelchairs, causing neuropathy, detached retinas and a host of other “symptoms” that the big Pharma can put a band aid on with another drugs? I KNOW, because they pumped me IV full of this crap without telling me the side effects or that the FDA put a black box warning on it. Took me 14 months to figure it out, because I knew something was wrong with my weakness in legs, pain in muscle tissue and bone pain, noises and ringing in my head, burning in the top of my feet, blah, blah, blah. But I did figured it out and I am ticked off, because you can never totally get this crap out of your body…packed with fluoride (now, why are they putting that in a drug anyway?) and know Doctor’s and Pharmacist who say it’s a horrible, horrible drug. I also personally know a woman who it almost destroyed, and another who has been given so much Cipro and Levaquin that she wishes she were dead, and her Doctor said it’s even showed up in her bone marrow and that she’s basically frying on the inside. I am actually on a number of groups where people have been poisoned by these and we have a group of lawyers in the process of suing Bayer for these group of drugs..all individual cases, not a class action lawsuit. They gave this to me for a simple UTI! Not life threatening, and I am not antibiotic resistant as I’ve had very few in my life! I also saw a u-tube with an EX Pharmaceutical Rep who was destroyed by these drugs and he’s warning people to NOT take them. ALL drugs are poison and NO drug cures anything, it’s a bandaid. They are taught not to cure, but to mask a symptom and I know this for a fact! All things can be cured, but not by a poison made by the Big Pharma. I am not buying your BS, so go back to your Lab and create some brains for the dumbed down sheeple! And I KNOW It was this drug because I am on NO other drugs whatsoever. That’s the thing, people cram so many pills down their mouths that they couldn’t figure out one side effect from another, but not me!
In business, typically if you make an inferior product that doesn’t work, you typically do not do very well. Isn’t it in the interests of Big Pharma to actually have a great product that works? Look at the tech industry as an example. The biggest company in the world makes a far superior product. It is easy to use and ‘just works’. If you really want to create value as a business, the incentive is there to create a great product. Those that do not, typically do not survive.
List of sources: [Edited to make sure I wasn’t misinterpreted]
1. weather.com (yay I get medical advice from …meteorologists?)
2. World Health Org (United Nations – I’ll take my chances with my own health here.)
3. CDC (American government – see number 2.)
4. CDC (American government – see number 2.)
5. Public Health and Epidemiology Department, University of Florence, Viale G.B. Morgagni 48, 50134, Florence, Italy (good source, but the argument is taken out of context. If you read the source it is giving data as it relates to DEVELOPING countries)
6. Decent source, they ref from CDC also, but I don’t think measles parties are a good alternative anyway.
7. source cannot be verified for the study. link is broken.
8. opinion given, no references.
9. CDC (American government, see number 2)
The author has encouraged you to do your own research and educate yourself in immunology and vaccinology. They’ve provided these not-so-sciencey sources because they are more palatable to laypeople like you, but please I actively encourage you to read the more meaty stuff (there’s a PubMed Health link here to start you with, any immunology textbook will do too).
I’m not sure why you’re so bashful to WHO/CDC, they helped to eradicate smallpox for pete’s sake, arguably one of the biggest achievements towards our health as a people, and it was all due to vaccines and worldwide cooperation. Note, worldwide! I don’t know how you people, you probably advocate “nature-way”, fail to realise that nature is all connected, and now the people of the world come into contact more than ever before. So, I don’t know why you think developing countries are irrelevant (vaccines and other public health measures are the reason you’re not suffering as much).
That said, cooperation is all that’s need, education is for your comfort. If you don’t want to educate yourself, then it is incredibly selfish to stand in the way of people who know what they are doing is for the betterment of all human health.
You’ve missed a few that I cited.
Click to access JPEDSDeStefano.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14519711?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12949291
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2002/Immunization-Safety-Review-Multiple-Immunizations-and-Immune-Dysfunction.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090401411.html
http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org/autismandvaccines.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
I realize that you don’t like trusting the CDC and the WHO, but do you also have issues with the Journal of Pediatrics, JAMA, the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy, the Washington Post, the Autism Science Foundation, and PLOS ONE?
Is there any medical or scientific institution, journal, or laboratory that you do trust?
(Thanks for the heads up about the broken links–I’ll edit those later today when I have time).
WTF are your sources?
This is one of the most glaring examples of why people should be fined for poor blogging. This blogging is literally killing brain cells.
Dear readers of this blog, you are being lied to.
Your an idiot
You are = you’re
Who’s the idiot?
Grow up
Both of you, the grammar correction is a waste of time and irrelevant. And insulting a stranger because they disagree is foolish and rude.
Cite your reasons and defend them, but don’t be jerks.
And treating Science like the Christian God of the the 21st century is blinding them 😉
People don’t treat science as a god. Science is always founded on rationality and facts and no dogma is allowed.
unfortunately many people don’t like reality and refuse to pay attention to it. They would rather be entertained or follow some personal immortality project/belief system than value truth and reality or live in the present.
Dear doctor,
yes we do know we are being lied to. Not only from you, but from most sources, and all of the media, all of the officials, all of the governments, all of the corporations..
some of it is true but for what means? to help us? really? I mean really? you don’t need fucking scientist or priests to tell you what you feel, what you see, what you sense, do you really need all the data, all the statistics? who actually presented and calculated the data? all you do is read and make sense of somebody’s work! but do you see, do you sense the reality of existence around you? does it resonate with you? big pharma is here to help? yeah sure….Monty fucking python…
for most just like me we do fucking feel something smells fishy here, and all scientists, all books, all religions, wont help if you do not help yourself….
That was a tasty and delicious word salad. Wonder what it means?
Who carse? 😉
😭😭😭Hilarious!!
Love “tasty and delicious word salad” May I use that? It’s an excellent response to an emotional and irrational fear-based outburst.
It would have been tastier had it had some real punctuation, so that I could have paused to chew a bit.
Excuse me, why are you using Monty Python as an expletive? That does not make sense, nor does your spelling of ‘cares’ as in ‘whocarse’, in fact your whole rant is senseless. I just don’t see how a society that worships financial success as the USA does then can turn on one of it’s biggest and most successful industries… yes they make a huge profit..for shareholders … but hey! in the land of the free you too can be a shareholder ! At least the products they produce SAVE PEOPLES LIVES, you must never have seen a child with a preventable disease suffer and die or loved an old aunty who was crippled with polio from childhood….. and remember, inoculations were NOT invented by big pharma…(as you put it). All the major medical advances in the first half of the 20thC and earlier were done small scale, it was the SUCCESS of the procedures that made the inoculation and (other medical drugs) industry big , it is the result of a climate of ‘free enterprise’ that made the industry disgustingly huge HUGE. BUT the size of the industry now DOES NOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF INOCULATION PROGRAMS!!!!!
no, no, profit is just for fun, right?
Right, because there’s no profit in the “alternative healthcare” industry.
Holy crap, there is plenty of profit to be had with vaccinations and the constant change in a virus. They do not need some alterior motive here. The viruses mutate to survive, we have to make more vaccines since there are idiots out there not doing them, allowing said viruses to mutate even more.
Holy crap, you are not too bright. LOL There would BE no disease if they’d stop spreading them with vaccines, period! It’s not the unvaccinated spreading them, it’s the vaccinated ones. Same in the animal world. When I lived in Germany way back in the late 70’s, they used to drop live bait in the form of vaccines, and then wonder why the animals got rabies, etc. They have NO way to monitor which animals eat it and how many doses they get. And just like today with kids, they have no idea how each child will react, nor do they care? I am sure, just like in the animal world, they are getting same dose, such as 100 pound, versus a 7 pound baby, cos that’s how it works with animals, if they are 150 pounds or 10 pounds, they get the same size dose. My dog has not had a vaccine in many years, no heartworm pills, flea treatments, and eats a raw diet…he’s very healthy too. Same as a child would be if people would stop jabbing them with POISON!
As a CVT I can honestly say that you sir/madam are an idiot. Rabies is real, heartworms are real. Depending on where you live you might be able to get away with not giving heartworm preventative, but I have seen dogs drop dead of pulmonary thrombosis/embolism from a ball of heartworms. I have also seen whole litters of unvaccinated puppies come down with parvo. The same can be said for kitten litters and panleukopenia. Unlike parvo, panleukopenia in kittens is a death sentence, and a nasty death at that. Yet I have never seen puppies or kittens that have their vaccines die from parvo or panleukopenia…I have been doing this work for almost 20 years. I work in one of the top rated humane societies in the country. Do you have any idea how much we use vaccines to ensure disease does not run rampant through our facilities? Do you really think we would waste our limited resources on something that didn’t work?
FYI you better hope your dog never bites anyone, or is never attacked by a wild animal. Depending on the rabies status of your state/county if an unvaccinated animal bit a human or other pet, is suspected to have rabies, or has been bitten by a wild animal the health department will euthanize the animal and send the head in to test for rabies…good luck with that.
No Geri, YOU are the friggin’ idiot here. And I’d never donate to the stupid Humane Society either as they are for show and profit. I know people that used to work for them and when they do their “rescues” they get TV time and donations while they are killing all the animals at the shelter to make room for the newbies. Don’t buy your BS either, and my dog is very gentle because he’s fed the species appropriate diet. He had vaccines before coming to me and I might have vaccinated him one time, before I got smart. The reason you have seen dogs with heartworms is possibly because they weren’t given the poison, but mostly because they were kibble fed, not getting nutrition and if a dog is healthy, the worms die off naturally. When they are exposed to things, they start building up antibodies naturally so titer tests are useless as they will only show high if said animals has been exposed. My friend gave all her puppies but one to a guy, she didn’t vaccinate, her dog was fine, begged the guy not to, he did, all of them died. So, you are deceived because you believe all they tell you. I do RESEARCH on both sides, use my wisdom and my dog will never bite anyone, unless perhaps he is provoked or someone is hurting him, but oh, I guard him well. You are a liar when you say if the dog bites someone, and you have no proof of vaccines, that they immediately kill them and send the head off for testing. They first quarantine the animal for, I believe 10 days, and if they show no symptoms of said disease, they do NOT kill them. Most animals who bite, are provoked or raised to be vicious. So take your Humane Society and shove it…you are no better than PETA, all liars! Those vaccines are overkill, even people who work for Vets said the same thing. They are making 50 to 70% income off those vaccines and the rest is profit from treating the chronic diseases they cause! Educate yourself, I never believe or trust anyone, I find out for myself what is truth and I don’t buy anything people who profit big bucks from killing children and animals. I am done, you are all idiots here. LOL
Just one quick thing; vaccines have a relatively poor profit margin actually. Most big pharmaceutical companies make their money from drugs which target things like high blood pressure and, perhaps not surprisingly, male enhancement drugs.
Lest we forget DIET PILLS for women. Theres a huge profit in weight loss products and chemical peels. Retin A , for example has such a huge profit margin when used for vanity purposes that they refuse to send a fair amount to Africa to cure a deadly skin disease. As far as diet pills go, let’s just say this, if you convinced women that having their childrens vaccinations taken care of they would lose weight….. well, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. People only spread convient rumors. My son has Autism. It’s just the way it is. I wouldn’t change a thing about him. He is content most of the time. It is just one of those things we have to deal with. Being typical doesn’t mean being perfect either. His symptoms showed up prior to his vaccines. I took too much time debating having them done for fear of Jenny McCarthy’s logic. He was going to have it either way. Now I feel guilt for not having them done sooner. What a stupid chance to take! He did act like a zombie directly after but I already found out he was autistic. After 1 week of drooling he was back to his former self.
Well said… a bit of common sense.
Are you kidding me Joseph?. Vaccines does not give such a good profit huh. well then. Why are they not giving out the information that proves how deadly they can be in the future. All the scientists who independing from each other all saying the same thing. But the Companies which produce these vaccines doesen’t want these informations about how dangerous vaccines are to come out. How come you ask? They WANT to earn money, BIG CASH. http://vactruth.com/2012/11/30/2011-billions-vaccine-manufacturers/
Read this if u are intrested. You dont know ANYTHING, why do u even comment in such a mannor. READ and learn something that is acctualy useful. But hey, go on you and take these vaccines. I won’t. Let’s see who will live the longest. All you have to do is read on the internet. But you trust the gouverment, right? Surely they will come help us. They will make sure that everything is so “SAFE”. Just like they to when someone gets Autism from a Vaccine. All they say ” oh that was onfortunite” but there is NO PROOF that this vaccine was the cause. They arent obligated to give you SHIT. So It’s time to take our lives in our own hands, We got internet for christ sake. We can get all the information about EVERYTHING at our fingertips. We just have to choose what information we decide to take in to our heads.
Thanks alot
Right Alexander. It’s very easy today in this world, to see who belongs to Satan and who belongs to God. Anyone who can knowingly poison people for profit and sleep at night, belongs to the evil one. And then I remember Satan never sleeps, so they probably don’t either. LOL
They don’t tell you that vaccinations cause Epilepsy but it does! Im proof!
I have Epilepsy. I was born with it. So were you. It’s a genetic recessive disease. Educate yourself about what you actually have. Not all seizures mean epilepsy and if it really is epilepsy, it wasn’t “caused” by anything. You just happened to be as lucky as me and Julius Ceaser and Aristotle when it comes to the genetic lottery.
Epilepsy can be dealt with in different ways, depending on the type and different factors. It doesn’t have to be a finite thing in most cases…Yes, the way of life, less stress, good nutrition and quality sleep, more activity and less time behind the computer, as well as the attitude, help a lot. A good social and trusting safety-net of family and friends helps reduce stress and anxiety, the two factors that are huge when it comes to preventing and dealing with seizures.
I have a family member with epilepsy, he had his first seizure when he was 37, and it was a big one. There was never even an indication.
There is a lot to a way of life, the percentage of people who have it diagnosed differs from place to place, and acording to their way of life. Some have the genetics, but never get a seizure or have just one in their adult life.
Most importantly, some don’t even know they have the condition. Seems that societies which have a more stabile social network and share a feeling of a community have a smaller rate of that condition. And I take into consideration only the countries with a developed health sector. That speaks volumes about the importance of dealing with stress properly and just how the mind plays a big role in all health issues, as well as the surroundings. Medications are not enough, they are just a small part of the whole picture.
The modern way of life does take it’s toll when talking about epilepsy…The connection between vaccinations and epilepsy is, however, a loose one…
Just like Autism right?
Vaccinations do not, I repeat, DO NOT cause epilepsy. Even a Google search could tell you that. Please do some reasearch.
If you were refering to my comment, I never implied that they do.
Maybe you should search the vaccine inserts….where it lists “epilepsy” or various seizure disorders as possible adverse reactions. Who are any of you to tell her what did or did not cause her epilepsy? Vaccines are drugs and ALL drugs have risks and side-effects.
Unfortunately you are one of many…
I’m also epileptic, I first got it when I was a child around 8 or 9 and had 2 tonic clonic seizures. I was put on medication and by the time I was 12 the doctors said I no longer had it. It came back however in my late teens when I decided to experiment with drugs like ecstasy (stupid I know but I thought I was bulletproof at the time) since it has returned I have had around 8 seizures. My parents have always wondered how I developed epilepsy since there is no history of it in either side of the family. Recently however we have found out my great-grandmother was a twin who was separated when they were just babies. My grandmother has been getting in touch with this new side of the family and it turns out that on of the family members also has epilepsy. Coincidence? I think not. There is obviously a prevalence for epilepsy in my family as well as environmental factors so to say that vaccinations are the cause of epilepsy is simply outrageous. Oh and yes I have had all of my vaccinations as a child and I will be doing so with my children when I eventually have them.
Brilliantly put. This article above is wonderful and so true. For Whocarse, someone so “feeling and in-touch” and who doesn’t seem to need all these science people; seems to me they have a computer (science and study based technology) and they read (maybe not write as well) so they have studied other works. Oh and just to add if they are so educated about “most sources” then they too have collected and interpreted data. Hmmm interesting.
Did you read all the links or are you to lazy. I pray to God your cbildren do not get any of these diseases orpolio or tb along witb so many other of these that are on the rise. Stupid stupid stupid people.
Watch the video; it addresses your point. I don’t doubt that you feel that something is going on, but that doesn’t mean that you’re right, it means that there’s a biological reason that humans are preprogrammed to find patters, and sometimes people think they see patterns that aren’t there. That’s the reason why we utilize the scientific method. Gut feelings really can be useful in finding the places that we want to investigate. As the video describes, several parents got the feeling that their kids’ autism symptoms were associated with their MMR vaccination. Great! Very good place to start an investigation. And so scientists did. They constructed studies on the possible link between the MMR vaccine and autism that were explicitly designed to reduce the chances that our orientation towards falsely identifying patterns would impact the outcomes of the study (this phenomenon is commonly referred to as “bias”), and then they interpreted the outcomes of those studies. Do you know what the outcome has been? Researchers have been unable to prove even a correlation, much less causal link between the MMR vaccine and autism, and the folks who are charged with reviewing their work have agreed with them. Furthermore, as the video describes, there is no longer any contention about the paper that DID claim to demonstrate a correlation. The Lancet retracted the paper and pointed out that the author had actually blatantly falsified some of his information. This is the beauty of science. Humanity has recognized that our capacity for seeing patterns can be incredibly useful, but most of us have also realized that this tool is imperfect. The institution of science has been developed as a response to that – it helps us to be come much more certain as to which of the patterns are there and which ones we inadvertently fabricate. It frustrates me to know that there are people such as yourself who are so hubristic as to think that you are unaffected by bias, and thus do not need to listen to what scientific research tells you. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if you decided that your “gut feeling” that the sun orbits the earth was the best source of information on how the solar system works, because your ignorance on that particular matter really won’t significantly impact my quality of life. But when you and others like you decide to discard the science backing public health initiatives, you are imposing on the quality of life of everyone around you, and that is unacceptable.
As for pharmaceutical companies, I agree with you that there are flaws in the way that we do science. Scientific studies that are funded and reviewed by private interests exclusively are problematic, and any other scientist who is worth her salt will agree. But as a student who has dedicated years of my life and tens of thousands of dollars which I do not have to the pursuit of science because I care about and believe in its contributions to human understanding of life, I’m offended by your implication that no scientist cares about your wellbeing. Yeah, we’ve got to make a living, and yeah, some of us will probably be crooked jerks, but that is the entire point to having peer review – the vast, vast majority of us are good people whose only interest is in expanding the scope of human understanding, and we invariably find a way to voice concerns with bad science.
Lily, I so much appreciated your insightful comment here. I had a period of time where I was on the fence w/ vaccines (my child has ADHD, probably borderline Asperger’s, but the psychologist we were seeing at the time said my son was too “happy” have Asperger’s, so… yeah… but it’s definitely something a bit more in-depth than ADHD, but I’ve given up on psychiatry to help us figure it out… for now, anyway. I don’t even know if it really is ADHD, since that diagnosis was given in a 20 minute dr. visit w/ his PCP along w/ a scrip to appease the teachers… ugh). Of course, my child *has* been vaccinated for everything required. I just wasn’t sure if that had any impact or not. And I have to admit, I am very frustrated with the medical community about a lot of things (the NuvaRing which has a higher chance of causing blood clots in women who suffer chronic headaches, for example, something I didn’t discover until my chronic headaches got worse, and I started researching on my own… and this product was prescribed by my PCP who had also just referred me to a neurologist for my chronic headaches prior to prescribing the Ring, but who never warned me against using this form of birth control? Really? Most of the time, I feel like I have to doctor myself, and I resent the copays).
BUT, I also do believe in the scientific method, and it’s fantastic to hear from an intelligent voice who also cares. You keep talking and commenting and educating wherever you can. It’s good for those of us trying to wade through the lies, just trying to get to the truth that will keep us safe and healthy. We need to hear from more people like you.
Thank you! It is frustrating to be in such a technologically advanced and information-rich society, and trying to be an “informed patient” while also acknowledging that there are fallible doctors, dishonest scientists, and self-serving politicians. Not all, but some. So we must make our way through life seeking the truth, and take heart from the beauty we can find, the strength we can muster, the help we can discern. It’s especially difficult to realize that we may have been wrong about something. It can be difficult to forgive someone else, but it’s a tender pain to have to forgive ourselves….of course we want to blame someone else. Sometimes misfortune is just that: misfortune. Life is about rising above,…being joyful in spite of….taking comfort in Love….and persevering.
Yeah, Lilly, crooked jerks like Andrew Wakefield. He just fabricated a bunch of lies, so he could get his paper published and have his 15 min. of fame. What a mess he created. And what a tragity has come of it. I’m 54 yrs. old, the tailend of the Baby Boomers. I and my brother, who is three years older, were the last of the generations that got measles. My sister is 12 yrs. older than me. She and her peers were the last to get Polio. The vaccine was developed towards the end of the epidemic. We knew people as kids, who were a bit older than my sister, who had polio and were left crippled by it. My mother was the youngest of 10 children who were born during the depression years. Her older sister, the second child, died a very agonizing death with Diphtheria. My mother’s next older sister had it when they were just little. The aunts would always tell the story of their mother, sitting by Aunt Jean’s bed, day and night, refusing to sleep or eat, until the worst was past and she was out of danger. Diphtheria causes thick mucus to build up in the back of the throat and it needs to be continually cleaned out or the patient can choke to death. My grandmother had let someone else take over with her older daughter and the person wasn’t as vigilant as they should have been. The girl suffocated. My grandmother was determined she would’t lose a second child. My mother was thirty-six when she had me, and there was a 20 yr. spread between her and her oldest siblings. I grew up hearing the stories of how awful these diseases were and how many children died or were left crippled, brain damaged, or invalid. The people who are ignorant of these diseases and refuse to get their children vaccinated will only change their minds, I’m afraid, when the diseases have come back to the point where children–possibly their children–are becoming deathly ill or dying.
It is sad that you obviously feel that swearing adds more merit to your diatribe of incomprehensible, incoherent rubbish. Insulting someone for their opinion when they are clearly encouraging discussion, not insults, caring enough to make their opinion public, and not claiming to be the absolute authority, hardly justifies your remarks. If you had the wit to recognized the fact that this is an opinion, and one which is put out there to encourage you to investigate further, you might have a positive contribution to the discussion. For myself, I am seeking facts, what are you wanting?
Here here!
yeah you are right from your perspective but here is something you should see….and I don’t know what I want, but I do know what I don’t want!
http://www.upworthy.com/a-guy-hung-an-offensive-sign-around-his-neck-to-make-a-solid-point-and-it-worked?c=ufb1
Thanks for the link, but I fail to see the relevance of it. If you don’t know what you want, why are you commenting? Are you just bored? May I draw your attention to the purpose of this discussion: to vaccinate or not. Feel free to comment helpfully on that and we will all listen to your opinion and research from any links you provide. Thank you.
pharmacuetical companies don’t deserve to make a profit?? not even for saving countless childrens lives??
Interesting comment. Why?
I should have been more thoughtful and I did not mean to insult anyone, if I did please accept my apologies.
please read this post and don’t forget the comments…
http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/why-all-the-measles-outbreaks/
GREAT LINK – thanks. This is something I can work with. Thank you for taking the time.
Please be aware that the link is to an advocacy piece, which doesn’t seem very informative–a lot of radical, unsourced and not terribly credible assertions there. There’s nothing wrong with reading broadly, but please take what you read there (even moreso than you normally should on the internet) with a grain of salt.
For example, that author writes at the bottom of the piece, “Please do not write to me that vaccines do not cause autism. I’m not asking you if they do or not. I already know.”
When someone tells you that a fact is absolutely true, despite flying in the face of the scientific consensus, and that they aren’t even open to considering that they might be wrong, it’s not a good source of information.
Not a “Great Link” It’s an atrocious article filled with bile and using only wildly uncredited sources to back up a storm of unbelievable claims. This is only a few steps above linking to http://www.timecube.com/.
He/ She is obviously trolling, no one can actually think this way…right?
That’s a lot of profanity but, unlike the good Dr here, you provided NO evidence to prove your point.
Wow whocarse, good luck with all that!
Then just go live in a cave! Stop using science! You say science and statistics is not necessary, yet you eat and drink its products all the time, you use electricity, computers… Don’t, just don’t use science! Go live in some forest or in some cave, using tools made of stone and wood…
An overabundance of rhetorical questions does not make a strong argument.
Your own bias is going to kill your child. It’s people like you who would still be cutting their kids’ veins and bleeding them in an effort to rid them of the evil spirits causing their poisoned blood if you could, simply because a “feeling” told you to. It seemed like a good idea at the time, huh? Well modern biology disproved any of that “feeling” nonsense. The thing about science is that scientists aren’t as charismatic as chiropractors or other snake-oil salesmen, scientists care about studying science, not about selling people on anything.
@whocarse: What are you saying – because to me it is not at all clear. What is it you sense, and feel? What smells fishy? Your comment of all scientists, books & religions wont help if you do not help yourself, is pretty common advice for nearly anything. Teaching doesn’t help people, unless they help themselves. Food doesn’t feed people unless they help themselves, the ability to ignore pure common sense (in the unnecessarily forced absence of readily available data) won’t happen unless you help yourself to it as well. So the lesson you are pushing is not coming through loud and clear. I don’t think we sense the same thing though, because from your argument – you seem to suggest that every single thing that has ever been learned should immediately be cast aside and distrusted unless you have done it and learned it yourself or felt it. You seem to propose reverting back to the stone ages and using your sense of smell rather than relying on the foundation of knowledge that has been built through a constant process of building, breaking, and building again the widely held theories that are passed on from one generation of curious minds to the next. You sound like the father from the Croods. Lets use your theory though – I see that me, and all of my friends were not killed by very awful diseases, and I saw that we all had in common a number of things – as they were my friends, we were at the same school, spoke English, liked GI Joe, dodge ball and archie comics – and we were all vaccinated. I think the vaccines is probably the most influential of those factors – I am not giving any data, or following any real process here – don’t want to tarnish the ol’ tummy rub method you tout. So in closing, what exactly is it you are trying to say? Because I sense you are a fucking muppet. But yeah, Monty Python is pretty funny.
Your a complete moron and an uneducated idiot.
Illumanati! Haha
YES. YES. YES. EXACTLY YES TO ALL OF THIS.
Yes, you do need us to tell you the facts with these statistics! Yes, you can’t rely on what you feel and what you see and sense!
You know why? Because you can’t sense the success of vaccines. You can only see the success from the studies and statistics (unless you directly infect vaccinated people to see if it works, as Jenner did with the smallpox vaccine to an 8-year old boy, but that’s not exactly deemed ethical anymore).
How do you expect to see something when the endpoint of its success is the absence of something?
Seriously, think a little before you spread you’re “logic” to people persuaded to easily.
Good grief!!!
You might as well give up on living since everyone is capable of telling a lie, don’t trust anyone.
Actually measles death rate is similar to that of flu, from the WHO data, not suspect data. The death rate is very very low, and related to COMPLICATIONS (not the measles per se) like those that can come from a flu, a cold, or even just being underfeed and with a weak immunitary system.
Pneumonia is the FIRST cause of child death in the world, barring asphixya. There are lots of articles on this, as you can see here too (pro-vaccine site): http://www.womenandchildrenfirst.org.uk/what-we-do/key-issues/infant-mortality-newborn-health/infant-mortality-causes?gclid=CLjMg–H1r0CFWTlwgodD40AHg
I’m not anti-vaccine at all, but this histery about measles and flu is exaggerated. I see most occidental people today (and american’s first) as laboratory rats and media influencing you through mass-guided histerias. One year is the vaccine, the other is the terrorism, Saddam mass-destruction weapons. After years of histerya one should suppose you grew up, but no, just wait the next one.
You can cite all the data you want, but the SCIENTIFIC fact is that measles very very very rarely can kill a “well-feed and healthy” children.
No scientist or medic will/can negate that fact. It’s scientific. It’s also statistic.
The mondial statistic on general death rate for measles is measured both with the very low % of healthy children and the very high % of those who live in very bad conditions.
So, vaccine? Yes, but probably you can save much more children’s lives by spending money to give proper medical care education to parents, which actually is NEVER done because you have to simply “trust your medic” and be ignorant when at house.
If a mother don’t knows how to keep a fever in check when at house, how to grow a healthy children and care for him, he risks death in a LOT of ways, measles being the last of them probably.
And that would be an investment, since knowledge spreads and saves more lives.
But is simpler to get a vaccine and think we are safe from children deaths with that. And children continue to die because they are feed in the wrong way, have weak immunitary systems, live in a polluted and unlivable environment.
But you can continue with your histerya, feeling safe after bombing IRAQ and Afghanistan and taking some vaccines, while living in a pollution so high that’s like trying to live on Venus and in a world full of people who get poorer and poorer, criminality rates skyrocketing because of this, natural resources depleting.
But a vaccine and a bomb are magic “scientific” solutions. Sure.
The death rate is low because vaccination rate is high…
wrong, wrong, wrong. Anyone here who is anti vax, leave now because you are just talking to a bunch of brain washed, dumbed down sheeple who don’t seem to know when they are being taken for a ride. I am not wasting my precious time here, that’s for sure, you trolls just keep on jabbing your kids and animals and yourselves. lol
I am glad you don’t want to spend time here spreading misinformation.
Oh, but we are not spreading misinformation, we are spreading the truth in the battle between God and Satan. : – )
thanks for sticking to the subject (war in iraq, obviously). in my opinion, i don’t think we should choose between vaccination of children or education of parents. btw if you have children, you’ll definitly know all parents have so much time and energy spare to attend classes, adressing subjects of biology class in high school. about your point only to listen to your medic, you’re so very unlucky there aren’t a lot of blogs about this subject where scientists try to explain (with citations) again that you are being lied to… you see, I agree with all your solutions (excuses if you’d ask me) why to not vaccinate our children. thanks for your input to make this world better for children!
(btw sorry for my english, not a native speaker)
Not every child is healthy. My child has an infection he will possibly never be cured of (that he received from his birthmother, who had no choice in contracting the virus). I’d still like him to NOT die of something preventable, like the measles, as he’s still an important and valuable person, despite being more likely to become one in your “low %.” thankyouverymuch.
Not all vaccines are the same, some are very neccesary, some are less neccesary.. In my opinion, some are completely unneccesary or the formula is in my opinion worse than I’d like to risk.
And each and every body and immune system is different. Just do your homework and choose them carefully, the ”how” is also a very important thing when vaccinating. I’m not sure or informed about your specific case, but I do think that avoiding the ”coctail-shots” would be very advisable, as well as making sure your son is as healthy as can be WHEN he is receiving the vaccine, and that the fever (which he will have if he has a virus) is closely monitored. Do consult with different physicians about your son first, especially if he is on medications. And it would be wise to try to make an individual time frame for vaccinations, so that his body has a chance to recover as much as possible, and that it’s not too early in his development. Always thought polio is a more serious concern than chicken-pots….
** chicken-pox.. not a native English speaker
And your “opinion” is based on….what exactly? Are you an immunologist? Are you well-versed in how vaccinations actually work? Do you actually read scientific publications, or do you just take what you read on the internet at face value? Do you know what a level I study is? Level II? Level III? P-values? The point of a power analysis? Do you have any inkling of how the scientific method works? How scientific conclusions are reached? Would you be able to sit in a room with immunologists and infectious disease specialists and feel comfortable talking at their level? Would you feel comfortable telling an individual who has spent the good part of his/her life studying the finer details of the human immune system what your “opinion” is? How about pediatric infectious disease specialist who has spent a career caring for the ill? “Uh, excuse me, but I read this article by Dr. Mercola, and he uh…sounded like he knew what he was talking about…”
Are you without shame?
Well said. There is so much utter nonsense peddled by people who have no understanding of the science of immunologists whatsoever.
This may shock you, but I am EXTREMELY informed on how to care for my child and don’t need advice from a stranger on the internet. I have several amazing doctors we work with to continue improving his health and immune system. But thank you for your comments.
Well my apologies to Michelle then, as I was not implying that you are somehow incompetent. I work in the health sector, it was an automatic response. I wish you and your son well.
To Dan, to add to that, I have pharmacists and doctors in the family as well. Yes, I know what I am talking about and I am giving a more simple explanation, while using the convenience of remaining anonymous and trying to see others point of view. I am in no way anti-vaccine, I do however think that each case is different and that parents should be more informed. As I too have seen too many of those who look at the issue as being black and white, and are then left with the consequences of not vaccinating or side effects of the vaccine which could have been avoided or taken care of properly.
There are many experienced pediatricians who oppose one another regarding this subject, both sides have children, you know. No need to call for shame or try to hit on the empathy button, as I have seen them all. Unfortunately.
I stand by the facts that not all vaccine-coctails are good for your child, that the manufacturers and the quality do differ from one another, that all vaccines don’t carry the same weight. And that the ”how” and the ”when” should be questioned more often. I do think that in most cases, seasonal flu and chickenpox really need no vaccination, unlike Hib and hepatitis b for example.
Different age groups should be discussed in regards to vaccination as well.
Kind regards
Well klinki, if you are familiar with the literature then I conclude:
A) You are lying
Or
B) You cannot adequately critique a paper.
I’m guessing the answer is B. This is not a knock, as most people cannot unless they have learned how, and most people have not.
Feel free to cite your sources. Please state which specific studies (a pubmed link will do) have led you to make your conclusions and what the specific strengths of these studies are. Thanks in advance.
As far as the opinion of pediatricians, I would stick with the views of the AAP as opposed to the outliers who clearly were sleeping during their biostats lectures. Just a thought. Saying that there are some pediatricians that support your viewpoint isn’t really a valid argument. They are in the minority anyway, and for good reason. I should add that making up your mind about something first and then cherrypicking lousy examples to support your views probably isn’t the right way to go. That’s the strategy of climate-change deniers, flat-earthers, religious zealots, and….wait for it….the antivaccination crowd. So if you have convincing evidence to support your opinions, feel free to make a more convincing argument.
Before I engage in this discussion, might I ask where have you gotten the idea that I was opposing vaccination? What exactly is ”my opinion” that you read out of my comment? Might I suggest you question your own reading and critique skills first?
This here is not a scientific research paper, it is an article with references. Therefore my comments are tailored to the form. I am here primarely as a parent among other parents, who happens to be in that line of work, have experience and be informed first hand.
Hmm…Ok. Saying that the issue of vaccinations is not a black or white issue (though it is), suggesting that the seasonal flu vaccine is not necessary (even though healthy people die from the flu), comments about time frame (?) not using vaccine cocktails (?) giving the body a chance to recover (?) All of these comments suggest to me that you are terribly misinformed. Feel free to point me to the literature that would convince me otherwise. Level I and II studies would be preferable. Thanks in advance.
I don’t see what 2 unrelated issues have in common. Sure, science is present in everything but anyone can use science for good or bad, there is no distinguishing. Same way religion was used for good and bad for centuries. Science is not a moral compass, nor does it dictate how you should live your life. Your argument on measles is weak. Your logic is that since the risk is low to healthy children, these are scare tactics. If you had a child with a weaker immune system or susceptible to complications, you might sing a different tune. The issue is that if everyone gets the vaccine, we can better protect everyone which is actually a noble cause to be a part of. This isn’t fox news and this isn’t government BS. Vaccines hardly get any media attention until people start getting sick and then it fades after a day or 2. You say you are not anti-vaccine, then why rant about other world problems?
The article was dissapointing. I hoped for facts and statistics from the many links plastered throuout. The same statements could be said to support anti vaccine regime. Saying we need something doesn’t make it so. I understand the need but also acknowledged the advances in Heath and nutrition research. All the data I have seen strongly suggests a healthy diet and life style to be far more effective and safe.
I am in your position of uncertainty and seeking information. But I think the point of the article is not to spoon feed us or drown us in statistics or medical studies, but to encourage us to properly research from the data that is out there. I personally feel we take opinion for granted too much and many seem to see or accept opinion as fact. Good luck with your research.
Then maybe you should dedicate your life to studying for 6+ years and receive a degree in this field, work in a research lab, and attempt to get grants so you can study these issues yourself. If you’re not educated in this field, then maybe you should at least give more credit to those who are. It’s not like people wake up one day, say they want to be scientists, and then that afternoon just throw a bunch of viruses and chemicals together to see what happens. Why do you think life expectancy has increased exponentially since the discovery of vaccines for things like smallpox? We just got lucky? No. If you understand how the science behind this works, you’ll understand that these vaccines are not thrown onto the market just to make a profit. Specific brands may be promoted in order to make a profit, but vaccines as a whole were developed for the safety and health of the world. Good luck with your research.
ConcernedScientist – I am not discounting scientists in any way, but I am equally not prepared to accept information blindly. I have great faith in science, and in those that study hard and long to become the great contributors they do, however, we are talking about our children’s lives. Your comment seems to encourage blind trust and that science is ALWAYS right. What responsible parent is not going to look at the facts properly, seek advice, and then make an informed decision? I don’t have the degree to produce the paper myself, but I respect all who do. I read the information they provide me with an open mind, as everyone should. I review other people’s opinions and check them out so I have the facts. But I will NEVER inject my child with a substance I neither know nothing about, and have not researched thoroughly. You don’t need to have a degree to use commonsense, you just need to have a desire for knowledge.
exactly… most people commenting prob dont even have their booster shots as adults.
Amen.
Not all vaccinations fall under the same category, not all manufacturers make good or ”safe” vaccines, and the way vaccinations are administered is a huge deal. Flu shot cannot under any circumstance fall in the same category as polio. Polio shot really should be given, as it is a serious thing. Chicken-pot vaccination is also not quite neccesary, and children do NEED to go through some infections to develop normally. Monitoring them and paying close attention to detail and the child’s behaviour is KEY, but most don’t see that as being ”economical”. As someone who works in the health sector, chicken-pots and flu-shot are not something that has to be done, and it would probably be better without. Polio and thetanus on the other hand, I would not play with those and vaccinations do help. The age when they receive it is a big deal, as is the time inbetween two shots, how they receive the formula and if they are completely healthy when they are getting vaccinated. The information is being generalised and the way things are done, types of vaccinations, the variation in quality are not taken into consideration. All vaccinations are not the same, and the ”how” is a huuuge deal. I agree that the article is completely blocking out the factors of nutrition, mental and physiological health, sleep, genetics, surroundings and natural remedies. Serious physicians as well as serious ”alternative practitioners” should always take the each other into consideration and work together. That’s when miracles happen.
are you kidding? flu shots aren’t necessary? they save thousands and hundreds of thousands every year. And why would paying attention to a child’s “behaviour” be key? There is no established connection between autism and any kind of vaccine. If there was any kind of health risk, it would be the risk of the child having an allergic reaction to a vaccine, in which case you should pay attention to your child’s skin and neck after vaccinating.
That too, but fever, sick stomach and irritation, vomiting and similar are more common. Especially with coctail shots. Behaviour is not only attributed to autism, in smaller children it shows when their system is weakened in some way. No interest in food or liquids, apathy or acting more agressively, bad coordination are something that more parents should be informed about, as those are signals. Yes, tantrums have a lot to do with the physical in children. We haven’t proven that there is a connection, we haven’t proven that there absolutely isn’t. I’m not suggesting anything, leaving the door open for more research.
There are different kinds of vaccinations, and I would not state the (seasonal) flu to be something that is absolutely needed, obligatory or usefull for that matter. There is no need to overdo it, as more is not always better and it can be an overload of the system. No, I do not see the (seasonal) flu as a life threat in most cases, consequences are extremely rare, most of the worlds population doesn’t go for a flu shot and the basic shot does not immunize you enough to fight the mutation, if that is what you were reffering to. A couple of years ago, people who received their flu shots still got infected with the bird flu or the swine flu. People who had no flu shots showed no deviation in catching the bird or swine flu from those who received the shot.
I see no need to go overboard as the fact that you didn’t catch it mostly has nothing to do with the fact that you received the shot. The consequences and deaths are mostly attributed to other sources. I see no need for the shot in Europe, Canada or the US, for that matter. It is still a personal choice though.
Hib is another subject, and that I do question in any way.
I’m not anti vaccination, I am however pro informing and being up to date. For example, almost all children I have seen after the measles coctail vaccination had a reaction. Both parents and physicians would feel safer and more comfortable if those reactions were something that they knew about and were prepared to deal with them. Knowing that your child will probably get a fever would save parents a lot of panic attacks for one…
*Hib vaccination I don’t question. To correct the typo
Really, diet can protect you from disease? Maybe all those people with aids just need to eat right. Get a clue
And there is a vaccine to protect you from AIDS? Most people with AIDS die from complications caused by minor infections, colds or pneumonia. There are no effective vaccinations to fight pneumonia and it still takes a lot of lives, while commonly being missdiagnosed as the common flu at times. Yes, proper food does help the immune system, and no, it is in no way the only protection needed. To take it out of context and compare the way that you have moladood is also incorrect and shows that you didn’t understand the issue being adressed here.
Thank you for this article. My wife and I are in conflict over this issue. She has looked into the research and concluded that vaccines are not the way to go for our little one. I am on the road of research, as I too refuse to believe this is all some giant conspiricy. I am very heartened by the fact that you advise us to research for ourselves, as that, in my view adds credibility to your article. You appear very level headed on this. I am going to continue my research. Thanks again.
Your wife has reading comprehension issues and lacks basic protection skills as well as a disregard for your child’s life. You have bigger issues than you think.
Instead of insulting my wife, (whom you do not know), maybe you would be good enough to link me to your research on the matter. Thank you.
Really? That’s the level you will stoop to? How pathetic!
That was an insult to his wife. He could have made a nasty remark back to you and he was nothing to the point and polite.
@concernedparent just stopping by to say that your wife is indeed an idiot, and that she should start getting her information from peer-reviewed scientists instead of bullshit-peddling alarmist. If it was up to me, I would charge anti-vaxxers with attempted murder/attempted biological terrorism. The ONLY valid excuse for not vaccinating your children is in the case of already-compromised immune systems or allergies to specific components of the vaccine.
Perhaps, Anonymous, you should read some of those peer reviewed papers and see that in fact some of them don’t support vaccines. Moreover, the conclusions rarely coincide with what was actually written.
OK. So I take it that your inability to provide links to your fact-based research, and your desire to continue insulting my wife, is an example of your level of intelligence and therefore a good reason why your opinion can be disregarded by anyone who isn’t intellectually challenged. I seek facts, you clearly have little interest in that. Tell me, does insulting a persons opinion support your argument? I don’t see anyone agreeing with you. For your information, my wife is very well read on the subject and like me, continues to seek further information. I am not sure myself and seek wiser counsel to expand on the subject and answer my questions. It may be that we do decide in the end to vaccinate, but I assure you, your insulting remarks will have had no bearing on my decision and in-fact, to others less patient, might have driven them completely to the opposite side of the argument. If you are right in your opinion, that potential reaction from someone would then endanger all. Try helping us and not insulting us. We have the right to ask and we have the right to make informed choices. Forgive me but grow-up or get out.
Concernedparent– if you email me at the link above, I’d be happy to send you some studies to read, or anything else I can help you with.
Thank you. Will do.
Got your email–I am absolutely swamped right now (at a conference), so I can’t reply immediately. But I posted these upthread (they were actually in the article as well, but people seem to have missed them), so I thought I’d repost them here as well. They might get you started on some questions:
Click to access JPEDSDeStefano.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14519711?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12949291
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2002/Immunization-Safety-Review-Multiple-Immunizations-and-Immune-Dysfunction.aspx
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090401411.html
http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org/autismandvaccines.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
Also, two books which are very accessible and well-researched: “Denialism” by Michael Specter, and “The Panic Virus” by Seth Mnookin.
I’ll try to respond more thoroughly when I’m back in the country!
Jennifer Raff – a better person than most of us.
Agreed. One whose opinion is worth considering and investigating. Don’t you agree?
Hi!
I will take advantage of being anonymous here and share my concerns. While some vaccinations should be taken seriously (polio, hepatitis b, Hib, tuberculosis..), why not talk about the difference between need and subjective perception of safety? Natural infection is not something to fear all together. Many people, even children, will go through a flu thinking it’s a cold and recover completely without complications. The awareness should be spread on the ”how” regarding both treating already sick children and the very process of vaccination.
Chickenpox, for example, are not even near the category of polio. And shouldn’t be feared in most cases, as they are more dangerous for adults who never had them, and hence have no immunity to them.
Allthough no direct connections to autism, ADHD and similar have been found, we also haven’t proven that there isn’t any. No serious physician in their right mind will tell you that all natural remedies are rubbish, that the way of life, nutrition, activity, hygiene and caution have no real effect on a health of a child. And how the health of the woman during her pregnancy is a huge deal in that matter.
And we should also state how important it is to aknowledge and expect the side effects, to prepare and care as side effects which are unexpected and untreated can have very serious consequence for small children. How important it is for the child to absolutely healthy when receiving a vaccination? If the child is in any way sick, it should be postponed. The smaller they are, the bigger the risk.
That small children should take a few days off as a preventative measure, and that side effects can come even months later, even if they are mild? All children are different and in vaccinations such as agains measles/rubella, the parents should know that their child WILL have symptoms of the disease and actually will go through it. That the children who are vaccinated can still catch it (allthough in a milder form) and can pass it on to others. The kidney and liver functions (urine, sweat, poop, fever), behaviour and activity level should (always) be closely monitored in small children, especially after receiving a shot, as they are hit hard and can have metabolism problems. The difference between cellular and acellular vaccines should also be adressed.
While some vaccinations are usefull and a responsible thing to do at a certain time, renewing shots are not always neccesary and can be counterproductive. The difference between one-by-one method and coctail vaccinations should be discussed, the quality of certain manufacturers as well. I work in the health sector, and I would think before giving a final advice or answer.
I am against coctail vaccinations for the most part, think that we should take individual health issues or immunity level of each child in particular into consideration, that the communication should be better between parents and the medical industry. Will also state that the pharmacists who are up to date will know more about vaccines and what they do than most doctors, unfortunately. The obsession with vaccinations also streches to (seasonal) flu and HPV, two vaccines which I find are complete and utter rubbish. But that’s my opinion…
The fact that you claim in another comment to be in the health care field is utterly terrifying considering the comments you’ve made on this post.
“In the health care field” is a rather imprecise description. Naturopath? Candy striper? Hospital receptionist? Cleaner at a medical clinic? The possibilities are endless.
We have had children die of measels in the UK this year because parents didn’t think it was necessary. It was the disease that wiped out most of the native Americans (North and South). Remind your wife of that!
Sorry, I understood that was Smallpox. Wasn’t it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#History_and_culture
Measles, Smallpox, Plague, all of these things ravaged native cultures in the Americas as a result of European contact. They were all bad, Smallpox is the best known, because it’s more frightening in a modern context than measles.
Think of all the things different today, as hygiene was also a big issue back then.
Hygiene, unfortunately, probably has little or no effect on the spread of smallpox. Unless you think only dirty people get chicken pox.
It has an effect to some degree, but I was stating that many things have changed. Food hygiene, hand washing habits, being able to sterilize areas…I wasn’t stating that only dirty people get chickenpox, but the way they are transfered does have a lot to do with it.
Back then people would die from even simpler things, today there is a way to prevent those by a way of life or vaccination, to monitor and to treat succesfully.
I wouldn’t, however, put the chickenpox today in the same category as the plague or the measles for that matter. And I would not look at chickenpox as something out of the ordinary, they become dangerous with adults who haven’t had them as children and when combined with other conditions in children such as neurological conditions.
There are ways to ease recovery though, and it is not a handicap to go through them as it does give a lifetime immunity. Each case is different.
I read in Guns, Germs, and Steel that communicable diseases probably killed 90% of the native populations before Columbus arrived (introduced by traders probably in South America), to find them a low, savage people. Imagine the state of our “elevated” society after a 90% die-off.
Vaccines are a moden marvel and a wonderful gift to our children. I am happy to perform my civic duty and innoculate my healthy kids to protect the at-risk kids and adults around us.
PS: Anyone that poo-poos chicken pox has probably not had shingles.
Shingles is not an old-person’s disease anymore. I have personally met 6 people that had it under 35. It’s nasty painful.
This actually falls right within my research expertise (I study the genetic effects of European contact on Native American populations). To Klinki: I can assure you that hygine wasn’t the reason so many Native American populations were decimated by European-introduced diseases.
To d_girl: One of the reasons I absolutely hate “Guns, Germs, and Steel” is that it misleads people on some critical points. Native Americans were not a “low, savage people”. They were (and are!) people with civilization and culture.
Jennifer, I too study ancient peoples, including Native American peoples. While it is impossible to say that all Native Americans did or didn’t understand hygiene, my personal research leads me to believe that most tribes did not practice the type of sanitation that is able to help prevent diseases. That is to say that once a member of a tribe caught a virus or disease, the lack of what we consider modern sanitation wasn’t there to stand in the way of an outbreak.
But more to the point it had everything to do with genetics and isolation. Native Americans were mostly from Asian stock which migrated from the Russian Steppes long ago. There was no Silk Road or Oceanic trade from which to transport disease/virus across thousands of miles. They simply didn’t have the benefit that the Europeans had of generations of people developing natural immunity.
My apologies, I read that Measles was also included.
While I take the position of caution, in that I wish to be sure of the facts before I vaccinate completely, I refuse to blindly accept anything on face value. I seek facts and scientific studies produce facts. I consider opinion as opinion and investigate further. There is nothing wrong with those who choose to responsibly investigate, only with those who choose to remain ignorant or refuse and refuse to investigate. Do you not agree?
Hey, could you ask your wife to think of other people’s children too? We’ve adopted a child whose first mother gave him a virus that leaves his immune system compromised.
We have to wait until his body gets more healthy before he can be vaccinated, and he could totally die in the meantime of something many healthy children don’t die of, like measles or flu. We love our son and want him to live a long time, and some of that depends on parents of healthy children not only thinking about extremely unlikely but scary “what-ifs” for their own children.
It’s probably a good idea to keep your child in semi-isolation if you fear that he may catch something while out in public.
How about the simple fact that diseases that haven’t been around for a while are back while vaccination rates have dipped. It isn’t a hard argument to win. There are simply no supporting and accepted studies that prove your wife’s case. I really find it strange that people will question the science on this but not on the technology they use every day. People trust their brakes in their car to work yet they could fail and lead to a crash killing everyone but yet no one is researching or debating this science.
We as people can seem to accomplish the impossible by using the knowledge we have acquired by studying the world around us using the scientific method. But when someone introduces a small bug in the ear of our collective conscientiousness, we question everything to the point where educated people are willing to make uneducated guesses about what is right and risk the health of our most precious resource. Essentially, that is the essence of the anti-vaxx movement. And make no mistake, the anti-vaxx movement is also a business.
Hello I am mostly concerned about vaccine injury do you have any information on that please?
Have a read of a number of books such as the Vaccine Guide by Neustaedter, or the Vaccine Bible by McTaggart as a start, then just keep an eye on the news.
Christina – Thanks for this. I do have the Vaccine Bible, yes. If you have any other suggestions or links, that would be great. Thanks so much for your time.
Vernon Coleman and Dr. Mendelsohn as authors are good. You also have the ‘What doctors don’t tell you’ books and website. There is the much criticised Natural news website. I’m sure there are others, but I can’t think of them off the top of my head. Have a look on Amazon by inputting the word vaccine and you’ll come up with loads of options. I like ‘Fear of the invisible’ by Janine Roberts as it goes into details about how vaccines are actually made which is gruesome and morally questionable. It’s quite technical though, so can be a hard slog. Roberts is not a doctor or scientist, but does one have to be in order to do good research? Personally I think it’s good that she’s not in either profession as it gives her objectivity.
You might want to look over the Institute of Medicine’s report, “Childhood Immunization Schedule and Safety.”
The CDC also maintains a lot of information about specific vaccines, which you can access here.
The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia also has a lot of good information, broken down into categories like “vaccine ingredients.”
well every form medicine has its importance.. the reasoning that alternative healing medicines are taking away the show from alopathic or pharmaceutical medicines holds good because people have become way more addicted to popping those pills.. I am not sure how many of you have read the book “biology of belief- Dr. Bruce Lipton” .. please go through it if u haven’t…. Plus i have one question for the author of this blog.. Does your so called “scientific” western medicinal therapies have given any place for the study of the role of mind into healing from deadly diseases??
Aw man, being censored sucks.
Great post! I have copied it to my blog with a link to this original..
http://blog.gjpvanwesten.nl/2014/04/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied-to.html
One question, what about the mercury found in the vaccines? Where are your scientific papers proving that mercury is not harmful?
One more thing, the fact that mothers passes aluminum through breast milk doesn’t prove that aluminum isn’t harmful. The only thing it proves is that the mother is also intoxicated and should change what she eats! Again, need scientific papers to prove me that aluminum isn’t harmful, not that lame argument.
COME ON!!! PLEASE, PROVE ME WRONG!! You are just proving again that you doctors are not thinkers anymore. You are too attached to scientific non-realistic data.
It’s like using Somalia statistics about flu deaths to prove that flu kills. It’s a population with more than 90% infected by HIV. OF COURSE they die of flu!
I could go on against all your lame arguments, but my point (that your article is tendentious, non-real, AND WRONG) is already proven.
Also, if you want to fight anti-vaccine arguments, please use its real arguments. Don’t make them and forget the stupid anti-vaccine fans. The real arguments are about mercury, aluminum and statistics that prove that the diseases decreased because of sanitary changes, and the add of vaccines actually didn’t change a thing. And I’m not even entering the point that all major flu epidemics always appears in third world countries, but why would that be???
What about the 1918 flu pandemic? 50-100 million people died worldwide (3-5% of the world’s population!). Almost 700,000 died in the US.
Lol, really? 3-5% isn’t a relevant number in any scenario. What about 95-97% of the world population survived the major flu pandemic of 1918 WITHOUT vaccines? THIS is a relevant number. 3-5% is less than deaths by elevators!! And a lot less that MEDICAL BAD DIAGNOSTICS deaths. Which kind of explains those deaths…
The people who died in theSpanish Flu pandemic included a lot of young healthy individuals (e.g. military recruits). And 3-5% is not significant? If there was an infectious disease that had killed 16 million random Americans in a year going on right now, you wouldn’t be concerned?
The sanitary argument is not a good one. If you look at the data it actually supports science. Sanitary measures are often correlated to deaths from polio and show a decline in deaths once sanitary measures were taken. This is not science or proof. If you look at INCIDENTS during the same period of death decline, you would see that incidents were not impacted by sanitary measures. So that doesn’t seem to jive now does it? The real explanation for the decline in deaths was the invention of the iron lung that was used to treat and prolong the lives of those patients. The only real impact that actually eradicated the disease (incidents) was the vaccine.
A single piece of information is not enough to justify a result and hence why sanitation is not the answer. Is it a measure everyone should practise to reduce the chances of spreading disease, absolutely. Will washing your genitals after having unprotected sex with someone with AIDS stop you from getting the disease, not likely.
“The only thing it proves is that the mother is also intoxicated and should change what she eats!”
Classic! I shed a few tears I was laughing so loud. Aluminum is one of the best adjuvants there is. And, despite what some sources would tell you, we actually do know a fair bit about its mechanism of action; it helps activate the inflammasome – a cellular pathway for recognition of particular pathogens that induces an inflammatory response (hence the name) which is beneficial for enhancing immune responses.
Sorry, but actually you gave a classic evasive answer. One positive effect doesn’t change the fact that it has other negative effects. And hey! I remember that not too long ago, mercury was scientifically proven harmless, even though it’s always been one of the most harmful elements, and later when people started thinking about it, they finally changed the vaccines they could. Not because they didn’t know, just because they didn’t care! Same thing with A LOT MORE DRUGS that every year are proven harmful after “proven” harmless and are taken out of market.
Do you buy anything from the grocery store? I agree, there are harmful products out there but the trace levels have been tested safe. Apples have naturally occurring formaldehyde, where is your outrage with mother nature? Certain minerals are bad for us if we don’t have enough of them or if we have too many of them (ex. iron). You can even die if you drink too much water. It is all about testing the quantities and understanding the tolerances. There is mercury in many of the fish we eat like Tuna. Most people can eat a healthy amount without issue but they recommend as with other drugs, not to eat Tuna when pregnant.
http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228 So according to this information from the FDA, which is easily found through a google search, though a 1999 study on the impacts of mercury in vaccinations found no evidence of harm as a result of using vaccinations containing thimerosal (the mercury-containing preservative to which I think you’re referring), the Public Health Service, which is a group of public health organizations, released a statement urging pharmaceutical companies to find a different way to preserve their vaccinations. As a result, thimerosal has been removed from nearly all of the vaccinations which infants routinely receive. This information can be found in the “Recent and Future FDA Action” section.
Not finding an evidence doesn’t mean it isn’t there. If there was no risk at all, they wouldn’t have changed the ones they could, would they?
If the inclusion of mercury containing preservatives in a vaccine was creating concern among parents, and hence decreasing vaccine use, it would be sensible to avoid it’s inclusion even if it had been shown to be harmless. This would help resolve parental concern and hence increase vaccine uptake. So yes, ‘they’ would.
I agree not finding evidence doesn’t mean it isn’t there, but at some point, after looking, we need to accept that it ‘probably’ isn’t there or we would be unable to function in life. For example, I have not found evidence that my local school is run by a group of vampires. Either I can accept that it ‘probably’ isn’t, and let local children attend it, or I can live in a state of fear that it might be, constantly search for clues, shout to anyone who will listen that their children might have there blood sucked, and ultimately go mad. Most people choose option 1.
They changed it just to try to get dinguses like you to do the ethical thing and vaccinate your kids because they know that you are just going to refuse to accept scientific conclusions. You’re right, not finding evidence doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Tomorrow, we could find evidence that gravity is not a universal law, or evidence that evolution is not the correct explanation for our origins, but generally, the scientific community gets to a point where it has seen enough evidence to feel pretty good about its conclusions. From what I’ve read, it looks like the scientific community generally agrees that vaccinations are definitely worth any risk that might not yet have been uncovered.
If someday a major discovery like the one you’re talking about occurs, and researchers discover that I increased my child’s risk of developing Alzheimer’s or something by vaccinating him or her, I won’t feel bad about it. You know why? I will have made a decision based on the best information available. We have every reason to believe that the lives saved by vaccinating against our most virulent and dangerous diseases far outweigh any potential damage that has been done by the contents of those vaccines. Therefore, it is the ethical choice to vaccinate your child. It’s hard to choose to actively expose your child to a risk, whether it be real or perceived, but that’s what being a responsible adult and parent is about.
I have just been reading an article on Forbes: (http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2014/02/22/is-the-cdc-hiding-data-about-mercury-vaccines-and-autism/) – It relates to all our concerns about the validity of vaccination. I am offering this as a link, an opinion, not an argument for or against vaccinations.
Because Forbes is a leading medical journal.
Because a title means everything, right? Because medical journals always says medical wrongs, right? Oh wait! No, the non tendentious journals do!
You sound more than a little confused with maybe a pinch of insanity. Forbes.com is not a medical journal. It’s a purveyor of sensationalism. And believe it or not, medical journal articles are nearly always written by careful, methodical authors who are ethical and informed.They also go through a peer review process. Now and again, a misleading article does get through, such as the one that started the whole vaccination/autism debate. However, eventually that article did get rebutted and its fraudulent basis exposed, but not before it had caused this ridiculous growth of anti-vaccine propaganda, which you seem to be eager to swallow. Belief does NOT trump scientific, anytime.
I think scientists should really try not to be so arrogant all of the time. Science is not always true whether you believe it or not, ask Gallileo! (Actually better examples are available, but you know what I mean…).
People have a right to question the companies that tell them that their drugs are safe, the same way they may question whether or not the closest pizza restaurant really is offering the best pizza in the country.
Like many people these days, I try to live my life as naturally as possible on the basis that we have evolved for millions of years and have excellent systems that keep us alive. When we start intervening with the natural processes we inevitably run into issues. For example, babies born via C section have been found to be more likely to be overweight due to certain processes in the babies body which are activated during the mothers pushing. This has been reported in a ‘who knew’ manner. I would say it is no surprise that the human body proves to be far more complex than human knowledge appreciates.
For this reason I opted out of the vitamin K treatment, I believe we would be born with it if we needed it and there could be very good unforeseen reasons why it is not present in babies. I am not going to comment on what our decision about vaccinations, my point is what we put in our bodies is a freedom that should not be ridiculed, and that is arrogant for people in the pro vaccination camp to look down on those who aren’t too sure.
Just because you question scientists doesn’t make your opinion right, though. Data are the ultimate arbiters. I agree that people have the right to question companies “that tell them that their drugs are safe”. That is what the FDA is for. Never mind the countless studies (many epidemiological) performed by independent scientists who have zero affiliation with the companies that produce the drugs.
To be perfectly frank, the reason many people who support vaccinations look down upon those who are against it is because they appreciate decades and decades of data (and, parenthetically, we also have plenty of anecdotal evidence that the anti-vaccination crowd seem to covet so much) which show that vaccines are safe, save lives, and prevent horrendous disease.
When one comes to this conclusion, how could one help but disdain those who ignore the data (and history for those of you who look down upon science) and endanger not only their own lives (their prerogative, I guess) but also the lives of their children and the health of the public at large? It’s nothing short of reprehensible.
It’s more accurate to say that we have co-evolved in the presence of bacteria and viruses for millions of years. That means that while we’ve been developing excellent systems to keep us alive, diseases have been equally rigorously tested by those very systems, and have developed excellent mechanisms for sickening and killing us. Your body can’t really fight off meningitis on its own, even if it’s healthy, because evolution works both ways. Vaccines are extra protection, in addition to keeping your body healthy.
As for inaccuracies in science, you’re right, and that’s exactly what the author of this article is saying. She’s arguing that you should go out and do that research for yourself. The data is out there, and the peer-reviewed studies (in contrast with anecdotal evidence) fairly solidly establish that there are no significant, long-term risks to vaccinating your children. For example, the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella page from the CDC cites 3 studies, all of which attempted to find a correlation between MMR and autism, and none were able to do so: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/MMR/MMR.html .
I get that you want to look at the science, but I feel like there should be a point at which you’ve looked at 30 papers, one or two of them said “our data is funky, but it doesn’t really suggest a correlation” the rest say “we definitely didn’t find any cause for concern,” and then you weigh those studies against the FACT that millions of people have died from these diseases, even though many of them were healthy at the time of infection. The obvious conclusion for me would be that even IF there is ANY risk associated with these vaccinations, they are so rare that people who are trying their hardest to find them have failed to do so, and thus, the beneficial protection that comes from vaccination far outweighs the apparently non-existent risk. To me, that’s not an arrogant belief in science, that’s level-headed decision-making.
Thanks for the responses, I myself have a BSc and understand the scientific method and how we can draw conclusions from analysing data. With regards to the autism MMR scare, everything points at there being no correlation. MMR has been going for decades but people live longer than a few decades meaning the first generation of people who received MMR are still alive and there are plenty of mysteries unanswered that take place in later life such as the causes of dementia.
I like science as it is an on going question for knowledge, but as science is a quest that can never said to be complete there is only so much confidence we should have in our current level of understanding. It is easy to think we are living in the modern age but much of our medicine, understanding of the universe and social and cultural practices will all be considered obsolete in a few hundred years.
We currently know that if you take MMR then you will have a high level of protection against measles mumps and rubella and as far as science knows, there seem to be no major risks. But we cannot rule out that there could be other effects that have not been recognised or tested yet, after all the human body is pretty complex, more complex than our current level of knowledge by far. So from a level headed perspective in the terrain of pure reason we must concede that there is some level of risk involved with MMR and we all take that risk when we give it to our kids.
There is a difference in this to just being carried away with unfounded media healthscares.
A couple of other points:
Most tests are carried out by the drug companies and have been found to be bias in all sorts of ways. This means that a lot of the information that the doctors rely on is actually questionable.
Another point is that it should be up to individuals what they put in their body, even if the general perception is that they are putting the public at risk. I would like to know who would be behind state forced vaccination with evasion a criminal offence?
Correct, science isn’t always true. Einstein changed the way we thought about motion over what was believed for centuries. Science is our best, most educated and most tested theories on describing what we see around us. We may never have all the answers but doesn’t mean that you can just discard the results we have tested and documented.
I am glad you live naturally but did you know during those years of evolution, there were differences in the way we live today? We live in cities with much higher density and proximity to one another. The population has exploded. We have people who travel from one part of the world to another in a matter of hours bringing with them new cultures of virus and bacteria. What makes us different is our evolved brains to be able to actually combat the threats introduced by our increased globalization. One just needs to look at life expectancy prior to modern medicine to gain an appreciation for what we have accomplished. In 1900, the average life expectancy was 47, it is now closer to 80. What about infant mortality? Why is it that we question vaccines when all the evidence supports the benefits. It is mind boggling.
The vacine for childhood deceases have been given for years and eroded small pox and others. I am sure glad my children and myself were vacinated as I surely wouldn’t want any of those deceases that are now preventable. It is not the measles itself but what the after effects can cause.
A little sample from The Vaccine bible:
Nevertheless, in the midst of the polio panic of the 1950s, statistics were manipulated by health authorities to give the opposite impression. One such way, says James, was to redefine the disease, renaming it ‘viral’ or ‘aseptic meningitis’, or ‘coxsakievirus’. She quotes statistics from the Los Angeles County Health Index, for instance, showing that in July 1955 there were 273 cases of polio reported for 50 cases of aseptic meningitis, compared to five cases of polio in 1966 and 256 cases of aseptic meningitis.
I completely believe in vaccination and have vaccinated myself my whole life and plan to vaccinate my children. I however was reading a debate the other day and somebody brought something up that I want to hear your reaction on. They said that this outbreak was caused initially by a vaccinated child when that child was vaccinated because vaccines can sometimes cause the child to have the measles in a lesser form but still be able to pass it on to un-vaccinated children. However my understanding of vaccines is that they are an inert form of the contagion that could never do what people are describing. Was this person just miseducated or is there any scientific backing?
I would like to adress this. The person who you were debating with was correct in their logic, the fact that the child was vaccinated had nothing to do with the possibility of passing the disease on to others, if that is what you are questioning.
The vaccination is never 100% or close, but it is usefull. They can even catch it if they have been vaccinated and had no side effects, but the body response is then much milder, and consequences are much lighter, if any. That goes for all vaccinations.
When measles are naturally ”contracted” and the patient recovers with care and proper medication, nutrition and rest, they have a life long immunity. Being missdiagnosed or responding too late is the danger here.
Most children and adults who ”go through” measles will have no complications, if treated with care, the right medication (not antibiotics!), proper rest and nutrition. And if the fever is closely monitored. The vaccination is however usefull regarding the possibility of meningoencephalitis in children, the fever can possibly cause damage if it persists. It is a huge deal with pregnant women if they don’t have immunity against it, as it can cause serious damage to the child if caught.
The child shouldn’t even have a runny nose when being vaccinated, they should be completely healty and rested. No cough, fever, rash, sore throat, tiredness, or anything that would state an imbalance in the body. Side effects should be expected and planned, it’s not a miracle drug.
However, I would advise you not to put all vaccinations in the same box, and not to be afraid of all. There are some things that the body should be allowed to handle naturaly, chickenpox for example.
I also work in the health sector, and I have vaccinated my childen. However, I didn’t vaccinate too early and more is not always better. I am not all for coctail vaccines, as they are a shock for the body. Doing your homework does help. The flu shot and chickenpox are off the list, and no physician or pharmacist I know has received those or had their children receive them.
I will stress that the ”how” is extremely important for safely vaccinating your child in the long run and avoiding potentially dangerous consequences. Smaller children should stay at home for a couple of days after receiving a shot, should rest and their response and behavior should be monitored.
Written in response to this article.
http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied-to/
Yes, people have spammed that link here before. It’s filled with false and misleading claims, a good example of exactly what the article above is talking about.
Reblogged this on Disability Fieldnotes and commented:
This fantastic commentary on the anti-vaccination crew has been making the rounds on social media. If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s a must-read.
See. I still feel like there’s a lack of evidence. And will until someone can show me a study that shows the affects of vaccines on offspring. Example: A person gets every vaccine at the appropriate time to help reduce their risk of getting infected, and as a result lives a healthy life. But what affects do the chemicals, that he and his wife have received through those very vaccines, have on the offspring they will produce…. So I’m looking for a study on the affects from generation to generation. And please, only respond with ‘proof’. I haven’t been able to find such an article on my own so I’m turning to a group who might already have such an article. Thank you in advance.