In light of recent outbreaks of measles and other vaccine preventable illnesses, and the refusal of anti-vaccination advocates to acknowledge the problem, I thought it was past time for this post.
Dear parents,
You are being lied to. The people who claim to be acting in the best interests of your children are putting their health and even lives at risk.
They say that measles isn’t a deadly disease.
But it is.
They say that chickenpox isn’t that big of a deal.
But it can be.
They say that the flu isn’t dangerous.
But it is.
They say that whooping cough isn’t so bad for kids to get.
But it is.
They say that vaccines aren’t that effective at preventing disease.
But 3 million children’s lives are saved every year by vaccination, and 2 million die every year from vaccine-preventable illnesses.
They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.
They say that vaccines haven’t been rigorously tested for safety.
But vaccines are subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than any other medicine. For example, this study tested the safety and effectiveness of the pneumococcal vaccine in more than 37,868 children.
They will say that doctors won’t admit there are any side effects to vaccines.
But the side effects are well known, and except in very rare cases quite mild.
They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
It doesn’t. (The question of whether vaccines cause autism has been investigated in study after study, and they all show overwhelming evidence that they don’t.)
They say that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism.
It doesn’t, and it hasn’t been in most vaccines since 2001 anyway.
They say that the aluminum in vaccines (an adjuvant, or component of the vaccine designed to enhance the body’s immune response) is harmful to children.
But children consume more aluminum in natural breast milk than they do in vaccines, and far higher levels of aluminum are needed to cause harm.
They say that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (and/or the “vaccine court”) proves that vaccines are harmful.
It doesn’t.
They say that the normal vaccine schedule is too difficult for a child’s immune system to cope with.
It isn’t.
They say that if other people’s children are vaccinated, there’s no need for their children to get vaccinated.
This is one of the most despicable arguments I’ve ever heard. First of all, vaccines aren’t always 100% effective, so it is possible for a vaccinated child to still become infected if exposed to a disease. Worse, there are some people who can’t receive vaccinations, because they are immune deficient, or because they are allergic to some component. Those people depend upon herd immunity to protect them. People who choose not to vaccinate their children against infectious diseases are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people’s children.
They say that ‘natural’, ‘alternative’ remedies are better than science-based medicine.
They aren’t.
The truth is that vaccines are one of our greatest public health achievements, and one of the most important things you can do to protect your child.
I can predict exactly the sort of response I will be getting from the anti-vaccine activists. Because they can’t argue effectively against the overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines, they will say that I work for Big Pharma. (I don’t and never have). They will say that I’m not a scientist (I am), and that I’m an “Agent 666” (I don’t know what that is, but I’m pretty sure that I’m not one).
None of these things are true, but they are the reflexive response by the anti-vaccine activists because they have no facts to back up their position. On some level, deep down, they must understand this, and are afraid of the implications, so they attack the messenger.
Why are they lying to you? Some are doing it for profit, trying to sell their alternative remedies by making you afraid of science-based medicine. I’m sure that many others within the anti-vaccine movement have genuinely good intentions, and do honestly believe that vaccines are harmful. But as a certain astrophysicist recently said “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”. In the case of vaccine truthers, this is not a good thing. Good intentions will not prevent microbes from infecting and harming people, and the message that vaccines are dangerous is having dire consequences. There are outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses now throughout the United States because of unvaccinated children.
In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learn what the scientific community says. Learn how the immune system works. Go read about the history of disease before vaccines, and talk to older people who grew up when polio, measles, and other diseases couldn’t be prevented. Go read about how vaccines are developed, and how they work. Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked. Read the numerous, huge studies that have explicitly examined whether autism is caused by the vaccine…and found nothing. (While you’re at it, read about the ongoing research to determine what IS the cause—or causes —of autism, which is not helped by people continuing to insist that vaccines cause it).
That may seem like a lot of work, and scientific papers can seem intimidating to read. But reading scientific articles is a skill that can be mastered. Here’s a great resource for evaluating medical information on the internet, and I wrote a guide for non-scientists on how to read and understand the scientific literature. You owe it to your children, and to yourself, to thoroughly investigate the issue. Don’t rely on what some stranger on the internet says (not even me!). Read the scientific studies that I linked to in this post for yourself, and talk to your pediatricians. Despite what the anti-vaccine community is telling you, you don’t need to be afraid of the vaccines. You should instead be afraid of what happens without them.
Edited to add: This video is an outstanding summary of many of these issues. I encourage you to watch it.
“Humans try to make sense of the world by seeing patterns. When they see a disease or condition that tends to appear around the time a child is a year or so old, as autism does, and that is also the age that kids get particular shots, they want to put those things together. Parents watch kids more carefully after they get shots. Sometimes they pick up on symptoms then. Just because two things happen at the same time doesn’t mean that one caused the other. This is why we need careful scientific studies.”
Note: For people coming via a direct link, please also feel free to participate in a follow-up discussion
here.
1/13/15: Edited to update broken hyperlinks. If you find any additional broken links, please don’t hesitate to let me know. –JR
4/19/16: Edited again to update more broken hyperlinks. If you find more, keep letting us know and we’ll keep fixing them. –CM
Violent metaphors 
Steve the only thing that has occurred to me is that your closed minded and nothing I could say or anyone could say would change your mind but I do respect your opinion and choice to make the best decesions for your children. However just because you think that way does not mean you should impose your belief and validation of vaccines down everyone else’s throat.
Just for the record I did vaccinate my children however if given the chance again ,I would not .
cancer rates ,autism,allergies,autoimmune disease and everything else has exploded in the western world, but the government and big buisness have no clues what might be causing it.
Well What is known is that It’s not EMF’s nor is GMO foods, it’s not the thousands of chemicals added to our food supply each year, definitely not our fluoridated water, not the addition of hormones, antibiotic and steroids to live produce,definitely not the over use of anti depressants, pain medications or vaccines, it’s not the radiation and not the pollution-
So it must be the families that choose not to vaccinate their kid – lets blame them.
Just a snippet of alternate information that no one will read.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/03/29/mumps-epidemic-among-mmr-vaccinated-persons-netherlands/
http://www.naturalnews.com/042012_vaccine_facts_vaccine-damaged_children_cdc.html
Fletch-Please don’t cite natural news-I looked at their website and all the references were self-citations, and the rest was utter BS. As JerryA has stated, we make formaldehyde in our body, and it is routinely present in our foods. MSG is AKA sodium salt of glutamic acid-used routinely in the body to synthesize proteins and as a neurotransmitter (you have more MSG in your brain than you want to know). You can never prove that something is safe-only that there is a dose below which no deleterious effects can be detected. There is so much BS on that web page that I feel I should be using it on my garden, not reading it!
What a crap article!
Because…?
the CDC is the biggest liar in medicine, so using them as a reference is like shooting yourself in the foot, is a shill for the vaccine industry, hence the lies http://whale.to/vaccine/cdc.html
find out the truth on vaccines http://whale.to/vaccines.html
That is not “evidence”. That is a collection of Facebook memes and personal opinion articles from a group that is obsessed with conspiracy theories (including Holocaust deinialism). Bring peer-reviewed research to support your position if you want it to be taken seriously.
I really think we need to focus on the gut and brain also not to sure I believe that vaccinations don’t play some sort of roll. I definitely do not believe this is genetic.
maybe if you learned to spell “role”, I would be more prone to support you.
Don’t forget punctuation and the proper usage of to and too.
There are lots of good non-peer-reviewed sources too, like http://arxiv.org/. And you should still maintain healthy skepticicsm about peer-reviewed papers. http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_beware_conflicts_of_interest
Come on, who are you going to believe? An endless, diverse list of credible medical studies or a discredited doctor’s 1 study and the former co-host of singled out? That was on MTV. That’s where I get all of my major news and facts.
No, whale.to is not pubmed.
If it wasn’t so clear to everyone that ‘the governments’ have been lying all along about cannabis and ‘illegal’ drug use and users in general, maybe less people would be so quick to denounce the truth about vaccines.
Let’s face it, we are only lied to about vaccines 1% of the time while we are lied to about cannabis and it’s users 99% of the time. No wonder the stupid people are confused.
Stupid people or just too stoned to know the difference?? Go smoke another one and ponder your conspiracy theories.
Dear ‘Anonymous’, you seem to be confused. It’s well documented that cannabis prohibition was just a nasty money-grabbing racist plot in the beginning, and more-or-less the same thing now. That’s called ‘history’ not ‘a conspiracy theory’. Your stoner stereotyping makes me wonder which other minorities you’re ignorant about? If you must know, cannabis users are typically more intelligent, more highly educated, and earn more than their non-cannabis using peers. Do you drink alcohol or perhaps risk caffeine yourself?
So let me get this straight. You say the CDC is a bad reference, and then you use a “blog” to refenrence your opinion? Hmmm…
The Whale – really? Please, stop with the anti science bullshit.
damn, ya beat me to it… NOT a reputable website! Hell, it doesn’t even look remotely like a well put together website, how in the world would someone trust that?
Rofl. Right on cue.
This was an interesting review of data. But there is more important information that needs to be brought to the table. The Danish study is a compromised report. Primary researcher in trouble himself. Data showing opposite results has been suppressed. I am hoping that someone will begin to advocate for a more sensible and spaced out vaccination schedule. Yes, we need vaccinations. But they need to be given at age appropriate times, and not in clusters. I think one reason many parents are concerned, is they have personal knowledge of a vaccine on day, and autism the next child. I know several myself.
What’s your source for this allegation about the Danish study?
Using the CDC as a reference is bad but using a “truth” website is good?
The “truth” about Hitler was he was a British Agent promoting Anglo domination in Europe.
http://www.whale.to/b/hallet_b.html
The “truth” about the alien reptile shadow government overlords.
http://www.whale.to/b/reptilian_h.html
The “truth” about all the alien species we’ve been in contact with.
http://www.whale.to/b/alienraces.html
I’m all for accepting anything on the CDC site with a grain of salt. But it’s a bit insane to accept information from a delusional English pig farmer that truly believes in Illuminati mind control plots.
Whale.to is a website run by English pig farmer John Scudamore.
He has zero medical qualifications, nor expertise to base his erroneous “conclusions” on.
Scopie’s Law states:
“In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately… and gets you laughed out of the room.”
Whale.to is a website run by an English pig farmer, named John Scudamore.
He has zero medical qualifications, nor expertise to base his erroneous “conclusions” on.
Scopie’s Law states:
“In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately… and gets you laughed out of the room.”
Wait? This is YOUR site, you’re “promoting”? 😮
PMSLROFLMFAO!
NOOooooooooooo! Say it ain’t so?! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
I totally didn’t notice that. Are you serious?????????? That is AMAZING.
That is actually hilarious! Yet ANOTHER show of evidence that most anti-vaxxers are living in the dark. That’s unreal. Good catch Steve K.
My child has a rare genetic metabolic disorder. She receives all required vaccinations and the flu vaccine. Having MCAD puts her at risk with any illness. She cannot fast more than eight hours if she is active. (Her body cannot breakdown stored fat.) A stomach virus almost killed her before her diagnosis. There are many people out there who are put at risk everyday by childhood and other diseases.
Thank you for a fantastic blog. Unfortunately, I fear our generation is going to have to go through the suffering and death that a resurgence of these diseases will bring. Why did so many of our grandparents vaccinate? Because they saw, first hand, the devastation polio brought on their children. And unfortunately, the victims are going to be the most innocent among us.
I’m afraid that’s the case, too.
SO, scientist (you are an anthropologist, so yeah, not any more qualified to cite studies than anyone else that can critically read and do research), do you know the % of adults running around un or under vaccinated? why don’t you address that, cause that is the issue.. and who is the person lying to those who do not vaccinate themselves and or their children??? The CDC, vaccine inserts? How about the heath and human services website that addresses the pay out for vaccine injuries.. Or are we going to say correlation does not equal causation??? Ugh, sadly you are SO pro vaccine that I have a hard time getting on board with you… see the thing is, I am not pro or anti vax, I can see flaws with both, which is far healthier than having a one sided perspective.. Also I had my Tdap shot two years ago and have had my titers tested for MMR and hep a/b.. can you say the same? How about all the hate you have propagated on this forum… Which people’s kids dead, allowing that sort of thing to be written is shameful…
http://consumer.healthday.com/public-health-information-30/centers-for-disease-control-news-120/adult-vacciness-684651.html
Hi there! I have a doctorate in genetics as well as anthropology, and I’ve been conducting research in human genetics/genomics for over 10 years, and teaching university courses in molecular biology, genetics, human variation, evolution and cell biology. Do you still think that I’m unqualified to write about human biology?
I’ve had my most recent Tdap a year ago. If you’re insinuating that I don’t receive vaccines myself (because I have some secret knowledge that they’re actually dangerous? That doesn’t make any sense), I can assure you that I’m fully up to date on all vaccinations, and as someone who periodically travels abroad for research I’ve also been vaccinated against yellow fever, hepatitis and rabies.
What hate am I propagating by sharing links to the most recent research addressing parents’ misgivings about vaccines?
and I’m assuming you don’t have a child with autism that started the day after a MMR shot. Be that a bad batch or bad quality control. It still happens. I wonder how your research is funded and wonder if you are not truly unbiased on the subject. In case you are wondering I do NOT support avoidance of vaccines…I believe they help…but you can spread out the MMR to mitigate the risks…and why not do this on a wide scale? To save money. Which is more important? Money or the risk? I say if there is any risk at all…spread it out even if it does cost a few dollars extra.
You are welcome to speculate on my family life, but I don’t choose to talk about any family members (aside from my sister who is already a public figure) on my blog in respect of their privacy.
“I wonder how your research is funded”. You don’t have to wonder: my research is supported by the National Science Foundation.
“..if you are not truly unbiased on the subject.” Depends what you mean by bias. If you’re insinuating that I’m somehow involved in the pharmaceutical industry, or have a financial stake in vaccines, you’re incorrect. My research is on Native American genomics, and isn’t supported by Big Pharma. You are welcome to read more about it on this blog under the tag “My research”, and I’ve also linked to my CV in this post, in anticipation of precisely this criticism.
But if “not truly unbiased” means that I don’t have a perspective on this issue, you’re correct. I have thoroughly read the primary scientific literature on vaccination, and reached the conclusions that I’ve shared with you in this blog.
Why spread out the MMR when every single scientific study has demonstrated that the risks (aside from people who, as previously discussed, can’t receive vaccinations for various reasons) are vanishingly small? Did you know that Bob Sears, the doctor who started the “spread the vaccines out” alternative vaccine schedule movement, recently admitted that he had no evidence for doing so?
I realize you’re looking for a justification for your position. But money isn’t what’s behind the scientific consensus on vaccines, and it’s not my motivation for writing about them.
Boom!!!!! Right on Dr. Raff. I would listen to your advice if I had to take my child into an area of dengue fever outbreak opposed to winging it with vitamin c. Lol
Well bravo to you, least your are not a hypocrite, but many on commenting on your post I can guarantee are, as I am sure they are running around killing babies due to their unvaccinated health status….why not address that… Why focus on kids… a geneticist huh, so you study infectious diseases? how about the stark difference in how our immune system reacts to natural immunity vs. vaccinated “immunity”…see the primary study of vaccines is immunology (which honestly has continued to move further and further away from how the immune system reacts to real viruses in any event)..BUT this is not a primary focus in not genetics or human biology.. So maybe you could speak on some authority about how genes mutate after vaccines or what happens with regard to cells after natural immunity if you are studying it closely…
I am not anti vaccine per say… but using your PhD to convince others your more qualified to have an opinion is sheepish.. reminds me of the student council in high school… Bravo, you can cite other peoples studies, you can repeat debatable studies (and before you get your panties in a bunch most things can be debated).. Do I think you are qualified, yes on many many subjects, on this one, no, I don’t… I say this based on your CV… I would not seek you out about opinions on vaccinations, other things YES… On another note, do you really do not think the CDC lies? You think the government has all of our best interests in mind? I have a big fish to sell you if you believe that. money talks and vaccines make billions… they have a place in the world, but no one is lying to me or the many others who consciously chose to not vaccinate…
So what about the likes of Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD an expert in immunologist, Or Dr. Susan Tenpenny, or Dr Sears, or other Dr.s/scientist who have made it their life’s work to study vaccine safety, some with a lot more tenure studying this than you, with their own studies to cite, not just links to other peoples stuff.. are you going to just call them all quacks? The hate propaganda you are supporting is not responding to those who are inflammatory and outright wrong in their assertions and statements.. What do those who are anti vaccines have to gain? really? If they are so safe, why the push back? I think you are obviously a smart woman, but your stance on this topic is frankly one-sided, and most really intelligent people can see there are two sides to every coin…
“maybe you could speak on some authority about how genes mutate after vaccines or what happens with regard to cells after natural immunity if you are studying it closely”
I’m unclear what you mean by this. Do you have a specific study you’d like me to talk about?
This is an excellent, and poignant point. This is my fear as well.
At last a sensible and comprehensive directive re. Vaccines and Autism. It is essential reading for all, especially young, families.
I made sure my child got all the vaccines that she was supposed to get ! I have an Aunt that contracted Polio a few years before the vaccine was ever made and because of that and what she was telling me about that disease and other diseases that some.of her friends back then had contracted because the vaccines weren’t made yet scared me WAY more than some minuscule side effects from a vaccine that in turn would SAVE my child’s life !! And I ask, if you’re child/children are not vaccinated we stay away !
Why? If your vaccines work…how will your kids catch anything from an unvaxed kid?
People come to the US from all over the world, whether it’s for vacation or to live. These people bring disease with them. People from the US go to all kinds of exotic locales to vacation. These people return with disease. It’s this kind of exposure that harms the unvaccinated child.
It’s not 100%. The effectiveness of vaccination depends on herd immunity.
No one has claimed that vaccinations are 100% effective, they depend on a high rate of inoculations in order to effectively eliminate infections. Most vaccines are roughly 90% effective, depending on the vaccine, and to have an effective herd immunity, so that diseases can’t spread effectively, you have to have close to that percentage of the population inoculated. If you don’t vaccinate your kid, you guarantee that you bring that number down, and increase everyone’s risk of catching the disease in question. This is why mumps, measles and other preventable diseases have recurred in clusters. If vaccination rates were high enough, you wouldn’t hear of 20-30 people being infected at a time, you’d hear of 1. Instead, in communities where vaccination rates have dropped, anti-vaccination parents have caused both their own children, and a portion of those for whom the vaccine wasn’t effective to become ill.
Please go educate yourself.
Because vaccines DON’T work for some kids (like mine, who have a genetic immune deficiency that causes their B cells to not make antibodies). And, some people (like cancer patients) have depressed immune systems and are vulnerable even if they got vaccinated. And babies too young to have been vaccinated. Being part of a civil society means considering the needs of the weakest members of the society.
When did all this collectivist stuff become so commonplace? We are all individuals who have personal rights. It is my personal right to be against vaccines and to not vaccine. I am not responsible for you and yours.
So, what you are saying is that (and am I remembering that you are a nurse?) in the interests of your personal rights, you’d be okay with my lovely, kind and smart five year old and three year old sons DYING from the flu, pertussis or chicken pox. Mmmmkay. Glad you are not our nurse, and I really hope you don’t live in my community.
{as I see red, and have to censor my profanity}
Would I hope for your child to die? Nope. Am I willing to make my children human guinea pigs in this fiasco we call a vaccine schedule? Nope. It is your responsibility to make sure your kids are safe, not mine.
Well, it came along about the time we decided, in this country, that in matters of safety from the extreme actions of individuals (and in a variety of other situations), majority rule would be used for decision making. So we elect representatives who generally gather testimony from experts in a field, then hold public forums to get comments from people for and against a proposed piece of legislation, and then the representative decide. Then we all abide by the decision until or unless the decision is overturned in a court or amended or repealed. It ain’t perfect by any means, but it’s what we have. That’s how it is when you have rule of law.
If every individual decides only to obey laws he/she agrees with, the whole system will break down. Civil disobedience carries the risk of incarceration — because it is disobedience to the rule of the current laws. It’s a great way to get unfair laws changed, but citizens have to accept the risks that go along with the territory when they decide whether something bothers them enough to make civil disobedience a good option. For instance, if you live in one of the areas in the US currently plagued by drought and you’re under water restrictions, it doesn’t matter whether you agree with the severity of the problem or not, if you are forbidden to water your lawn and your water your lawn there may be negative consequences. In a society like ours, your rights end where mine begin; mine end where yours begin. Laws are written and enforced to locate and protect that boundary.
An immune compromised person should have the right to as much safely as we can reasonably provide to go out to grocery shop, walk in a park, visit a doctor, etc. without facing the increased risk of exposure to serious illnesses. People who are infected with the measles or chickenpox virus are contagious before they get sick. The only way to protect immune compromised people — people who 25 or 50 or more years ago would have survived for only weeks to months before succumbing to an overwhelming infection but who can now, with good care survive for years — is to maintain enough herd immunity to keep to the absolute minimum that current science can provide their risks of exposure to, especially, airborne infections. Most of us believe we have a responsibility to help protect from harm those who cannot protect themselves. What would you want of others if you or someone you loved needed that kind of protection?
However, in the case of vaccines, we don’t have laws, only recommendations.
and when your children die of measles or some completely preventable disease, i hope you still feel the same way. People like you should be sterilized. Go choke to death on your conspiracy theories and “non gmo” tofu and die.
Hey Brian. I know that you’re frustrated, but let’s tone down the rhetoric on this, okay? Please refer to my site policies.
This “collectivist” thing started when it was made clear you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater. If your actions put others at risk. This isn’t a choice of what color you’re going to wear, it’s life or death for people. You’re a member of society, you don’t just get the perks, but the responsibilities too.
Im sorry. Your right. Its just sad that these ignorant yuppie parents will believe anything they read on the internet, yet furiously deny things like science and medicine.
HAHAHA…excuse me while I catch my breath…yuppy? If you knew me you would so not be calling me a yuppy! I’ll let my chickens know that I’m a yuppy, I’m sure they’ll get a cackle out of that!
You live in a society where people are pretty closely packed together. If you want to go out in the world and meet people, you are at least minimally responsible for their safety in your presence.
You know, the exact same arguments have been used against every public infrastructure that improved public health. Why do we need sewer systems and water treatment plants? Why can’t people be responsible for the cleanliness of their own water? Funny, the only folks you hear that from nowadays are the ones trying to get rid of environmental regulations that let them dump contaminants into local water supplies. How many years are the people of West Virginia going to be dealing with the aftereffects of having their water poisoned?
maybe. but then you also have the responsibility to keep your germ carrying kids away from the rest of us
You are a despicable person. Selfish, and amazingly uneducated as to the facts.
tonyarn, you have the right to continue to be ignorant and stupid.
Yes you are responsible for me and mine just as I am responsible for you and yours. We are a group of people that need to ban together for the good of the whole and not focus on the individual. The individual cannot survive alone….especially in today’s world where we depend on others for everything. If you see something that is harming others, then please step up and help instead of turning a blind eye.
Boy were our founding fathers ever wrong! Thanks for setting me straight. Ugh!
An RN? And you spout this? Oh, my. I don’t know where you work, but I’VE seen deaths and unnecessary suffering from influenza, and have seen numerous perfectly healthy kiddos turned into severely mentally devastated, cerebral palsy patients from pertussis. I’ve seen pertussis kill.
Also, you are mistaken regarding your responsibility. If a person is harmed by a preventable disease due to your neglect to immunize, you CAN be held liable.
Ever heard of the Patient Bill of Rights? When I am on the receiving end of any treatment, I have the right to say no.
“When did all this collectivist stuff become so commonplace? ”
When we started picking children in schools and got really frustrated when those kids got small pox and died, well, only about 30% of those infected.
“We are all individuals who have personal rights. ”
And those personal rights extend only so far as they don’t infringe on someone else’s rights. Look no further than smoking. Smoking is not a protected right as it has an objective impact on bystanders. We can debate the degree of this impact, but the principle is sound.
We also have property rights. I can for example ban hats in my home and my establishment. If someone comes in with a yamaka I’m well within my rights to say no yamakas. It’s not a first amendment issue since I’m not targeting one religion or ethnic group, I’m targeting hats.
So by this extension public schools are owned by the public and the public can decide what rules for being there is. Compulsory vaccination is accepted nation wide and has been tested by the supreme court as being constitutional. Your personal rights are not violated with schools mandating immunization as you are perfectly free to opt for private school or home schooling. Well allow some exemptions for religious or personal reasons, but this is a courtesy not a requirement.
“I am not responsible for you and yours”
Fair enough, however you are responsible for any action that results in the harm of someone else. Inaction that results in harm is also actionable.
Thanks for the permission…we homeschool for sure. I wouldn’t send my kids to one of those prisons/liberal indoctrination camps for any reason! Thankfully, in my state, they passed a law saying if we homeschool, we don’t have to vaccinate and we don’t have to answer to anyone about it. If I had chosen to send my kids into a prison such as the public schools, I would file a religious exemption which is also well within my rights.
How in the world are you educated in nursing medicine and still do not believe that vaccines are crucial?
There are lots of us…definitely not the “norm,” but we are out here.
The right to swing your fist ends at my face.
Yes, but thankfully my right to not vaccinate has nothing to do with you.
With all due respect, if babies and people who are sick can’t have vaccinations, doesn’t that tell you that they are not good for you. Vaccines either strengthen your immune system or they weaken it. If they strengthen it, like dr’s would have you believe, then why in the world can’t sick people have them, surely they are the ones who need their immune strengthened the most?
With all due respect, where did you take your college level course in immunology — because the instructor did you wrong if this is what you believe.
A normal immune system, in a complex process I can almost understand as I read the process, takes immature cells of certain types from the bone marrow and from other tissues in glands and organs in the immune system and in response to a specific protein (part of a virus or, sometimes, a bacteria) and causes the immature cell to mature into a cell (and a cell line that will reproduce “true” to continue the function for various numbers of cell division generations) so that those specific cells can attack viruses or bacterial cell walls that contain that one specific protein sequence and can kill the disease causing organism. This doesn’t work for all viruses and it works for very few bacteria. No cell line is able (to the limits of our ability to study such things right now) can be effective against more than one specific “breed” of virus or bacteria — hence the need for a different flu vaccine every year based on the best available predictions of which “flavor” of flu virus will be most common next fall/winter/spring.
Persons with genetic or acquired immune deficiencies cannot perform all of the steps in the process, therefore they cannot produce the special cells that provide immunity to specific diseases. Just as, no matter what you do for a person who is color blind their eyes will never perceive whatever colors they were born unable to see, so you cannot “teach” a defective immune system how to create immunity. Some drugs and diseases can attack one’s bone marrow and eradicate its ability (temporarily or permanently) to produce the white blood cells necessary to fight infection and to play a part in creating and maintaining immunity. Now when that happens some people can be “supported” long enough for the bone marrow to recover; others can survive if they can receive a bone marrow transplant. Some can do neither and they die.
Some people develop autoimmune diseases — such as rheumatoid arthritis (possibly the Native American Tribes’ gift to Europeans to balance the European’s gifts of measles and small pox) and many other diseases. The only treatments that are truly effective at slowing or stopping progression of those diseases are drugs that suppress the person’s over active immune system that has inappropriately labeled some cells in the person’s own body and “foreign” and needing to be destroyed. There is no way with current state of the art medicine to fine tune such treatments so that the patient’s immune system is exactly normal. It’s either destroying needed, healthy body cells or it’s not very good at fighting infection or creating and maintaining the cells that make us immune to some diseases. So, when we say the people are immune compromised or immune incompetent, we’re saying that their immune systems are not capable of learning how to create immunity — they cannot be strengthened, any more than you could strengthen a muscle that had been severed and not reattached. In that case, all of the “parts” of that muscle might still be there, but there’s no way you can contract and relax the entire muscle so there’s no way to strengthen the muscle.
I hope this corrects some of your misconceptions on how the immune system functions or doesn’t.
Hancock330-Excellent description of immune function!
Lmao….. and people like you walk amongst us……. smh
You lack a good understanding of human immune system. Please take an immunology class and try again. In simple terms, the immune system is not some sort of energy or muscle that simply becomes more or less powerful. It is very complicated, and it is fascinating. Your misunderstanding of the immune system is a good launching point for discussing how it actually works, and I thank Hancock330 for the extensive explanation.
What boggles my mind is that to say that vaccines don’t work is to essentially deny a large body of knowledge about adaptive immunity. In short, certain cells ‘recognize’ an antigen, lets say it’s called “A”, that is present on and part of the influenza virus packaging. It is important to note that they don’t recognize the influenza virus, but that they recognize “A” that happens to be part of the virus. Thus if “A” is introduced on another virus, the influenza virus, or just as “A”, the certain cells will still recognize it as “A”. Hence why we can introduce fragments of virions or attenuated virions that will “teach” the cells to recognize an integral component of the real thing.
This ability of the body to “recognize” proteins and create antibodies is not only one of the fundamental reasons why we use vaccines on people, but it is also the basis for making antibody-based medicines for cancer, and it is the basis for making thousands and thousands of different antibodies that we use for identifying proteins in molecular biology. Visit the web sights for Cell Signaling Technology, Abcam, Santa Cruz, Epitomics. etc., their business entirely depends on this phenomenon of acquired immunity. Can you think of an alternate explanation for why our bodies make antibodies and cells that bind so selectively to certain antigens, and perhaps an explaination for why these cells stick around for so long? Why do people who get chicken pox have such a hard time having another lytic infection?
On the autism myth and other random phenomenon: Personal experiences are biologically significant to the individual and emotionally significant to those who become affected by the tragedy. However, they are neither statistically significant nor informative for the average persone. Also, when people say they got the “flu” even though they got the vaccine, or that they survived the “flu”, I will not believe them or consider it significant unless they actually verified the presense of an influenza virus in their system. To say that the flu vaccine didn’t protect you from what it I would require evidence that the virions in your system have the same epitope as the vaccine had. I decided to tag this last paragraph on as a response to other comments made on this thread, so pardon that…
so frustrating……again…..your child may NOT get anything, BUT he may pass on the illness to a child with NO immunity to fight it off, say, cancer, any number of illnesses that can take a child so fast. Its called herd immunity. It is selfish to think its ONLY about your child.
You know cancer is not communicable right…..swing and a miss….
Uh, current evidence is quite clear that almost every woman in the western developed societies that is diagnosed with cervical cancer is infected with the HPV — and that infection can almost always be prevented with a recently released vaccine. HPV is transmitted during sexual intercourse. I therefore argue that cervical cancer IS contagious.
Nancy mentioned cancer as a reason that a person may be unable to fight off a disease as well as regular people or be unable to be vaccinated like the rest of us. Nancy was not implying that you can catch cancer like you can catch a cold.
AND some people miss the point completely…. Nowhere does she state that cancer is contagious. It is young cancer sufferers that CANNOT receive vaccines.
And you do realize that with acellular vaccines such as pertussis, your vaccinated child, or you yourself, can still be a carrier, possibly with no or very mild symptoms, and pass it along to an immune-compromised child or adult. Right? No such thing as herd immunity there.
Direct quote from the CDC website: “The “a” in DTaP and Tdap stands for “acellular,” meaning that the pertussis component contains only a part of the pertussis organism.)”
When you only are given a *part* of the organism in a vaccine, then you are not a carrier, nor can it not grow or spread to anyone else. Anon, you *really* do not understand basic high school level science, never mind vaccines.
read the article again
They work. The article even says they are not always 100%, but they will prevent a child from suffering and maybe dying. I was vaccinated for mumps, still got it. Walked away with no complications. My dad on the other hand, ended up deaf in one ear and partially deaf in the other ear because of the mumps. He was not vaccinated for them. Being vaccinated will prevent diseases, but in some cases they don’t stop a person from getting it, HOWEVER, because they have antibodies built up, they can fight it better than without, making the duration of the illness less and suffering minimal.
Vaccinated kids probably won’t catch anything from unvaccinated kids. But their (say) heart transplanted father with suppressed immunity may well, and it would most likely kill him. Yes, this is personal, and yes, I’ve read the peer-reviewed studies. Vaccines save lives.
Didn’t read the article you’re commenting on, clearly.
MAN are you lazy. That point is addressed IN THE POST.
because your kid can catch something from an unvaccinated kid when they are too young to be vaccinated. My sister almost died of whooping cough when she was 2 months old – she was too young to be vaccinated at that age
In the same way a miniscule minority of people will have an unfavorable reaction to a vaccine, so too there are people whom will contract a disease even though vaccinated.
The article above references why. Read it.
Because if you knew anything, you’d know that vaccines are not a cure, they are a preventative measure. They don’t stop you from contracting the disease from other people, they just prepare your body to fight the diseases you may contract. It is still possible to get sick if you’ve been vaccinated, because again, vaccination isn’t a cure, it just helps your immune system fight disease much better than if it hadn’t been vaccinated. It’s still possible to be carrying a disease while you yourself aren’t sick, because your body, whose antibodies have been activated by the vaccine, are actively fighting off the disease before the disease can do anything to really harm you. If you are carrying that disease, even if you aren’t sick, you can still pass it on to someone who hasn’t been vaccinated, and you know they don’t have the immune system to fight that disease without sometimes very serious consequences.
Just to clarify, your description actually depends on the vaccine and the illness. Every illness has a different pathology, and different vaccines work at different points in the disease cycle. There are vaccines that while not a cure in the individual sense, can cure a disease because widespread adoption breaks the life cycle of a disease that can only live in a particular host (smallpox for example).
Anybody who asks this question is waving a red flag that they haven’t done any real research. How can you claim to have thoroughly researched vaccination and still have no idea that they are not 100%, they are not able to be used by immune compromised individuals, and that younger babies and toddlers have no protection or reduced protection?
So if you admit you’ve done no research and are innocently asking this question, there’s the answer. If you are one of those types who has spent time reading from the Dr. Moneybags Mercola website and think you know what you are talking about – sigh.
good come back cause thats what i would like to know! if you already got the shot y are you scared of children wo shots…urs should be safe…right? so big deal some people have diff opinions about things that are injected into ur newborns body 4-6 at one time how is thats save?
I do not produce antibodies for the Rubella virus. Rubella (the R in an MMR immunization) is commonly know as the German Measles. I did not discover this until I became pregnant with my first child. I received an MMR booster the day she was born, but when I was tested during my second pregnancy, I still had no antibodies in my system. My son (second child) was due for 18 month immunizations (including MMR) when I was pregnant with my youngest child. His pediatrician withheld his MMR until after I gave birth. While Rubella is relatively harmless to adults and children, but if a pregnant woman becomes infected it can cause miscarriage of spread to the fetus. This is called Congenital Rubella Syndrome which can cause horrific birth defects. Herd immunity protected me and my unborn child.
Why would you stay away from someone who is not vaccinated if you have received the vaccine? That does not make any sense at all! This indicates that you do not believe that the poison you have injected into yourself and your children ( i.e…. the vaccine) can really protect you! If you are so confident that it protects you, then you should not fear whether anyone has or has not had the vaccine too. If you truly believe the vaccine works you should not fear those who are not vaccinated.
Clearly, you don’t understand how vaccines work. They are not 100% protective, it is the vaccination of the population as a whole that provides complete protection.
Lazy lousy anti-vaxxers not even reading before commenting…and you tell US to do our research…
yes calling people lazy and lousy definitely brings them around to your way of thinking… >_>
I have yet to see a single one of these “informed”, superior, neo-Nazi, ubermensch, flat-earther, sociopaths EVER respond without tin-foil hat induced delusion. Never an ounce of reality or science. Not once.
Because if you knew anything, you’d know that vaccines are not a cure, they are a preventative measure. They don’t stop you from contracting the disease from other people, they just prepare your body to fight the diseases you may contract. It is still possible to get sick if you’ve been vaccinated, because again, vaccination isn’t a cure, it just helps your immune system fight disease much better than if it hadn’t been vaccinated. It’s still possible to be carrying a disease while you yourself aren’t sick, because your body, whose antibodies have been activated by the vaccine, are actively fighting off the disease before the disease can do anything to really harm you. If you are carrying that disease, even if you aren’t sick, you can still pass it on to someone who hasn’t been vaccinated, and you know they don’t have the immune system to fight that disease without sometimes very serious consequences.
Another example of why anti-vaxxers are considered uneducated…. sooooooooooooo frustrating!
Thank you!!!
“I had measles as a kid, and it wasn’t that bad. Why should I subject my kids to immunizations for this when it’s no problem?” (Because your individual experience is not the sum total of all experiences. Your experience was mild, for which we can all be happy, but the same disease could have much more serious consequences to someone else.)
“Immunizations aren’t 100% effective. Some people who get the vaccination still contract the disease they were ‘protected’ from. If you can still contract the disease, why bother to get the vaccination?’ (People who wear seat belts can still die in automobile accidents. Because seat belts aren’t a 100% guarantee of an injury free car crash, should we scrap seat belts and air bags and crumple zones in cars? Absolutely not! I have a hard time imagining parents who don’t want vaccinations for their kids similarly turning their noses up at protective car seats, seat belts, and the like.)
“Some people get sick directly from the vaccination. Why would anyone take a vaccine that could make them sick?” (Because the probability of that is waaaaaaay lower than the probability of infectious disease without vaccines. Did you ever eat a piece of pizza that was left out on the counter overnight? Eat an egg cooked after its ‘best by’ date? Eat chips and dip at a party? Then you probably ingested harmful pathogens that could have made someone very sick. You have taken far worse risks than vaccinations in all kinds of things that you have done – and are likely to do again.)
“Enough other people do it that there’s still herd immunity, so it’s not even important that I get vaccinations (for me or my kids).” (This is galling because it’s a tacit acceptance that vaccinations *are* indeed beneficial in a macro sense, but that the person wants all of the benefit of vaccinations, without any of the teensie, tiny, microscopic risk that may accompany it. This is essentially a risk : reward ‘freeloader’ argument.)
What each of these arguments, above, have in common is perspective. Each of these arguments against vaccination are constructed such that the experience of the individual (either real, or by proxy) is given far more weight than either the weight of scientific evidence or the importance of societal-level communal participation.
“if you’re child/children are not vaccinated we stay away”
you are vaccinated, silly. why would you run away? thinking a non-vaccinated kid is a threat to your vaccinated kid while you believe in vaccination is a contradiction. I ask myself if you are mature enough to make an educated decision.
Because if you knew anything, you’d know that vaccines are not a cure, they are a preventative measure. They don’t stop you from contracting the disease from other people, they just prepare your body to fight the diseases you may contract. It is still possible to get sick if you’ve been vaccinated, because again, vaccination isn’t a cure, it just helps your immune system fight disease much better than if it hadn’t been vaccinated. It’s still possible to be carrying a disease while you yourself aren’t sick, because your body, whose antibodies have been activated by the vaccine, are actively fighting off the disease before the disease can do anything to really harm you. If you are carrying that disease, even if you aren’t sick, you can still pass it on to someone who hasn’t been vaccinated, and you know they don’t have the immune system to fight that disease without sometimes very serious consequences.
It becomes more and more clear to me that all these anti-vaxxers really have no clue what they’re talking about. It is so frustrating! You obviously have no idea how vaccinations work.
polio is a piece of cake to deal with compared to measles (there are several measles outbreaks now, on the east coast (NY, NJ, CT) and another in CA)–a MILD case of measles is thought to have caused Helen Kellers deafness/blindness. A sever case of measles has a very high mortality rate (yes, children die from measles!). Take a walk through an old church yard cemetary–look at all the childrens graves.. check the years, and check the local records.. Measles ran through a town, and killed 3 to 7% of the children.. Modern medicine has reduced, but not eliminated, the mortality, but still leaves its victims blind, deaf, sterile, and with other problems.
Thank you for putting a scientifically supported argument together and for encouraging others to do their own (scientific) research. Here’s a great resource that I used to share with pediatricians I worked with: http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/home.html
You are stating everything as fact, and yet you don’t state where you got these “facts” to back up your claims, and secondly you don’t even have the gall to but your name on it. Whoever you are I’m not believing a word that you say.
Actually she referenced every one of her claims. But if you want to ignore all the hyperlinks, go right ahead.
Uh, her name is in the article (Jennifer Raff) and every “fact” is linked.
You, on the other hand …
AGREED!! It’s Hogwash…that’s why!!
Anonymous and Anonymous: Every word in blue is a hyperlink to either a peer-reviewed scientific study, or to a good analysis of a peer-reviewed study. As for “not having the gall to put my name on it”, my name IS on it. I’ve even posted my CV on this site so you can see my credentials. Since you appear to have missed some of these critical details when you read the post, I’ll make it easier for you. Here, this is me: https://violentmetaphors.com/cv/
Your turn. Why, specifically, do you think this is hogwash?
As far as the HOGWASH comment is concerned, please turn on your sarcasm detector. You missed that one.
http://www.iflscience.com/brain/study-suggests-autism-begins-during-pregnancy
Here’s another recent study that can contribute to the thought that Autism is caused by vaccines.
Thank you for putting this together Jennifer.
Did you read the article Jasmine? The only vaccine reference on that entire page is a link to another report about Croatia upholding compulsory vaccination laws. The report you linked talks about when they believe autism starts to develop and not the causes.
Ironic, as you are posted under “anonymous”
Must’ve been really hard going through school with the name Anonymous, I guess.
LOL, yet both anit-vaxxers on this thread are “anonymous”!
We are?
One thing I think is very important to point out, although it doesn’t relate to anti-vaccine activists, it does have a huge impact on the health of your children. The vaccines / vaccine guidelines recommended in Canada for mumps for those born from around 1980 through (I think) the late 1990s proved to be inadequate, and is an important factor in the break outs of mumps in those adults in the last few years. These break outs happened in adults who WERE vaccinated. Mumps is rarely dangerous in younger children (children of my generation and older were often deliberately exposed by their parents young to bring on immunity), but it can be very problematic in older victims. I have not noticed anyone questioning the efficacy or guidelines currently in place for measles, chicken pox, etc, but I think it is quite possible that ineffective vaccines, guidelines, etc can exist in the area of those other communicable diseases since they do in the case of mumps. Nor has the government issued public notices encouraging adults in the relevant age group to get another shot…but they should.
I’m going to go ahead and trust my intuition instead of the institutions. By all means, continue your scaremongering campaign and wonder why the epidemic of autoimmune diseases continues to expand. Just keep your mitts of my exemptions and I’ll leave you to your illusion of safety.
Trust your “intuition”? Seriously? That’s your answer to surviving in a modern society? I think “intuition” tells me the earth is flat, man cannot fly and the stars are just small lights in the sky, certainly not as large as the sun… which is not as large as the moon….
I agree. I’m tired of scare tactics. I’m the healthiest person I know. I never get sick – never! I don’t get vaccinated and haven’t for about 15 years now. I will never get another flu shot, as the last time I got one, I was sick for a week with the worst flu experience of my life (that was before I decided to live holistically). I’m trusting myself and my Source. I believe in mind over matter, and it obviously works since everyone I know who gets vaccinations, takes prescription drugs, etc. are all sickly, allergy-ridden people! No thanks. Keep your nasty chemicals out of my body. It’s the only one I’ve got!
Good for you. You’re healthy because you rely on the herd immunity provided for you by everyone who gets a vaccination. In the mean time, you put everyone else at risk.
Herd immunity is a myth, an idea. Not backed up by any scientific proof.
Except that it is backed up by evidence. It’s shocking what you can find if you spend all of 10 seconds looking for it. http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/08/29/infdis.jir492.full.pdf+html
“The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”
LOL as most anti-vaxxers say, yet there are many STUDIES that suggest otherwise, not to mention the common sense element that goes along with it. Ugh!
” any scientific proof.”
Science doesn’t do proof unless it’s math. Science does degrees of certainty. Evolutionary theory is accepted with a high degree of certainty, Abiogenesis not as high.
Herd immunity is a observed fact. It’s also a mathematical reality. Give someone a vaccinate that is 90% effective their odds of getting a given pathogen are reduced by 90%. A bystander who is vaccinated has odds of 99%, and a bystander to them odds of 99.9%. At some point a given pathogen can’t live outside a host so the general population has a degree of immunity. This is herd immunity. It’s observed in nature and it’s observed with immunization. The eradication of small pox with ring vaccination is a great example of this in work.
Huh? Where do you get this nonsense? What next? Gravity is a myth? F=ma a myth? Please take a science class or three.
The very basis of vaccine is holistic. Your getting the essence of the disease which is why it works.
And I also do not believe that smoking causes cancer. I smoked for 50 years and do not have cancer!
Also, I do not believe that seatbelts prevent injuries in a car accident. I once had a car accidnet when I wasn`t buckled up, and I did not get hurt!
I also do not believe that UV rays cause skin cancer! I never use sunblockers, and I still have no skin cancer!
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand the concept of odds. I’ve never been hot by lightening, nor do I know anyone that has. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Is there alot of misinformaion, and corporate manipulation? Aboslutely – but that doesn’t make everything that is said wrong. There is an old saying “Throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. I see a lot of that “Logic” here. I also see NIMBYism. People willing to risk their childs health, and others because of not understanding how odds, and science work it seems. I could go further – but if people don’t want to believe, unfortunately many people won’t learn until someone they care about it hurt, or dies. I have noticed people have forgotten that with rights, come responsibilities. Yes, there are personal freedoms of choice, but you have to accept that it isn’t in all thing as we are part of a communal society. If you don’t like that – move to a different country more to your liking.
I think Dan was being sarcastic. …I *hope* Dan was being sarcastic.
I wish there was a like button, Dan. 🙂
I am the healthiest person I know. I have only been sick a handful of times in my 50 years. I have had the flu shot. Never made me sick. Everyone I know who do not get vaccines, also do not take prescription drugs, etc and all all sickly, allergy-ridden people. No thanks. I find it odd that they preach all this anti meds stuff and then their kids and themselves are always sick and pass illnesses around. Luckily my vaccinated kids have never been sick. See, correlation is not causation! I also wonder how folks justify not vaccinating, because of the nasty chemicals, then feed their kids processed foods full of chemicals and preservatives and pesticides, etc. Makes very little sense. I think because they simply don’t have the facts, in either case.
And they refuse to accept fact because they lack education on the subject matter.
Exactly!
Yes!
What are you a squirrel? You’re going to trust your “intuition”, whatever that means to you. I’m guessing you mean your gut feelings, your instinct. Gut feelings might tell you that water that is clear is OK to drink. Gut feelings might get you killed.
I ask again, are you a squirrel?
Sure. Spikes in autoimmune diseases must be related to vaccines that have been used for decades, and not increases in population, worldwide pollution, overuse of antibiotics, homogenization of our food supply chain, or any of the other factors that are more directly tied to the rise, both temporally and factually.
Someone totally linked to whale.to… Wow. So many words. 😦
It happens every single time.
Reblogged this on The Urban Dr. Mom and commented:
A must read re: vaccines.
How do you know these outbreaks are ’caused by’ unvaccinated children?
Strong point…. anyone going to answer him? Remember correlation isn’t the same thing.
Here’s an example report from the investigation of one of these outbreaks (they do this with every incident): http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/4/747.full.pdf
The index case (the first person infected) was a child whose parents chose not to vaccinate. He contracted measles abroad and brought it back home. 12 children were subsequently infected by contact with him at school before quarantine procedures were put into place.
“Of the 12 case-patients, 11 were white and 6 were female. All were unvaccinated: 9 had parents who had signed PBEs, and 3 were below the minimum age for vaccination.”
But here’s the rub.
Costs
County and state personnel reported
spending1745 person-hours on investi-
gation and containment efforts,produc-
ing a public-sector cost of $124517,or
$10376 per case. Direct medical charges
for the case-patients and exposed in-
fants totaled $16163 ($14458 for the
hospitalized infant), or $1347 per case.
Quarantined families reported average
direct and indirect costs of $775 per
quarantined child.Total outbreak costs
were $176980
Quite the tab for the taxpayer to pick up due to some people’s selfishness.
Exactly. And this is happening more and more frequently. Choices have consequences.
I wish there was a like button lol 😉 Thanks for that breakdown….. yet, it is the medical industry wanting to take your $$$ to vaccinate. Seems legit 😛
thank you. What about from adults who are not up to date with boosters?
For an extremely simple explanation of why vaccines are a good thing, please check out Penn & Teller’s take on it. Despite the overwhelming evidence that vaccines don’t cause autism, they look at the hypothetical scenario that they do. Please, enjoy!
Very good visual props to make the point. 🙂
The other thing that pisses me off about the people who believe the anti-vacc scaremongering and don’t vaccinate: they’re basically saying, “I would rather risk my kid DYING than having autism.” Which means they’re literally saying autism is a fate worse than death.
As someone who has several friends diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders (mostly Asperger’s), I’d like to thank those people for insulting the humanity and validity of my friends, their lives, and the many fabulous things they’ve accomplished.
Because people choose one option over another, doesn’t mean they are offending others. I have a son with autism. I used to vaccinate, now I don’t. How is that in any way offending people with autism? Really, we don’t risk our kids dying any more than someone who vaccinates does? Vaccinated kids can get chickenpox, so can the unvaccinated. Both could die. However, this is highly, highly unlikely. On the other hand, a vaccinated child has the possibility of being made paralysed, being asthmatic, having allergies, brain damage, immune disorders and the list goes on. However, these are not side effects of choosing not to vaccinate. So vaccinate, you can still get the disease, plus the high possibility of a myriad of other life long illnesses. Don’t vaccinate, and you might get the disease. Doesn’t leave much of a reason to vaccinate
While I am not an “anti-vaxxer” I must point out that an illustration with two male suits is not the best way to reach we, the people.
I have a child who has an interstitial microdeletion. We didn’t find out until he was 2. Some of the genes he is missing have known functions; others are still unknown. Also unknown is what the deletion means within his genetic makeup, as opposed to another individual’s, especially when you add in that certain genes can be turned on or turned off depending upon a number of factors. That said, I believe in immunizing; however, I did and do not agree with the US vaccination schedule (for instance, there was really no good reason to administer a Hepatitis B vaccination to my son as I was neither a drug addict nor promiscuous, so I decided that one could wait). I have gotten every necessary vaccine for son so far, except the MMR. My intention had been to administer each of those diseases individually. My concern was not that he would develop autism, but that he could have a severe reaction to the vaccine. As he’s aged, his reactions have traveled from the mild reactions to the moderate reactions. For that reason, and because of his microdeletion, a combo vaccine is a frightening prospect. It would be helpful if our government would encourage pharma companies to manufacture the individual shots for measles, mumps, rubella. I believe the immunization rate would increase quite a bit. To hear that it’s too expensive to do so flies in the face of the argument that public safety is paramount. Individual shots for children for those diseases used to be manufactured and were stopped around 2008/2009, I believe. I think if the medical and science community would acknowledge parents’ concerns about the schedule, etc., it would go along way with perhaps getting skeptical or fearful parents back into the vaccination-fold. Instead, scientists, such as yourself, making statements about science being true whether or not you believe it. There have been plenty of instances where science has been wrong, or results fudged, interpretations skewed.
I can well understand your concerns regarding the combined vaccinations for your child. I have NO knowledge that would qualify me to advise you in that regard. I will just note that, unless the rationale has changed in the last decade or so, cost is NOT the reason for combining vaccines into single doses. What the research back then indicated was that, IN GENERAL, the fewer return visits parents had to make with their children to accomplish the administration of all of the required immunizations, the more children would get adequately immunized. That being true, it IS less expensive to use one syringe to give 3 immunizations (for instance, the DTP or the MMR) and it seems much kinder to the children receiving the immunizations to give the combined forms. For a long long time, parents have been able to “restructure” the schedule for immunizations within certain parameters — for instance, having to get the full list of those required to start kindergarten by that age, but perhaps making 3 or 4 extra doctor’s office or clinic visits during that 5 or so years so that fewer immunizations were given in any specific visit.
See if you can get a referral to an immunologist. When my son received his initial MMR shot, he developed a full body rash. Understandably, we were a little concerned about his potential reaction to the second shot. We got referred to an immunologist by our family doctor, and they recommended varying the schedule for the MMR shot and following up more closely following vaccination. There were no issues when he got the booster. There are certainly *ISOLATED* cases where it isn’t appropriate for a child to receive some or all of his or her shots, or where the schedule should be varied, but this should only be done in consultation with a specialist, and it should be the exception rather than the rule. If you have concerns about anything to do with the vaccine schedule, don’t simply refuse the vaccines. Talk to your doctor and figure out what the most appropriate action for your child is.
I have a child relative with a severe egg allergy. She’s had severe allergic reactions to certain vaccines before, so her doctor and parents decided to put vaccines with egg ingredients on hold for her, in hopes that she’ll get over the allergy a bit as she ages. It happens. There are rare cases where it’s inappropriate for a kid to get a vaccine.
None of those cases involve avoiding autism or trying to improve the kids’ health. Vaccines simply do not cause autism, nor do they have a detrimental effect on overall health. The science is against the antivaxers on this.
Furthermore, I would go one further: Even if vaccines did increase the risk of autism, they would still be worth it to prevent the large-scale suffering that vaccine-preventable illnesses used to cause and will cause again if the antivaxers have their way.
People like me aren’t the freaking boogeyman. Stop treating us as if we are.
If this was directed at me, you may have misread my post. I am not anti-vaccine, at all. My vaccines are up to date, my son’s are, I get a flu shot every year. I was simply saying that there are (rarely) medically valid reasons to delay or opt out of a vaccine. Not that they are bad, or that they cause disease, or that the risks outweigh the benefits. And that anyone who does opt out should only do so with a medically valid reason after consulting with a doctor.
No, no, more a general annoyance comment after reading through all the comments to this post, and an afterthought to my previous comment (as I’ve been emphasizing that vaccines do not cause autism a lot). I apologize for being unclear.
I’m annoyed with antivaxers that they are so scared their kid will be like me that to “prevent” that (even though it won’t prevent a damn thing), they will choose to put their child at risk of the serious and potentially life-threatening consequences of vaccine-preventable illness. People like me aren’t the boogeyman. They should stop treating us as if we are.
Hmmm….Riddle me this: “Non-vaccinators in NY are .1-1% of the population. In California we are talking 1.1-2%. Why aren’t we seeing increases in outbreaks in Vermont, Michigan and Oregon where the rate is over 6%? Correlation (or worse yet, public perception of correlation), is not causation: whether it’s vaccines and autism, or whether it’s a tiny number of people not vaccinating, and a few places having measles outbreaks.”
http://politicalblindspot.com/data-reveals-measles-outbreaks-have-nothing-to-do-with-non-vaccination-trends/
You’re taking state-wide data and expecting it to be consistent across the whole state? The state-wide vaccination rate isn’t relevant, what’s relevant is the vaccination rates in the schools and communities where these outbreaks occur. Assuming the data in the link you posted above is correct, a 94% vaccination rate will still prevent most diseases from spreading effectively. But if an individual school has a vaccination rate of 80%, disease can spread much more easily. This is what happens. And infected individual comes into contact with a cluster of unvaccinated people, and the virus can infect multiple people and spread.
You’re ignoring the number of vaccine preventable illnesses that actually occur, and how low that number still is due to vaccinations. In 2011, there were 211 cases of measles reported. Vermont has (roughly) 0.2% of the US population. Assuming these outbreaks didn’t occur in clusters and were evenly distributed (which isn’t the case), you would expect them to get 4/10ths of a case. Given that the cases occur in clusters, it’s expected that in most years, assuming present vaccination rates, Vermont won’t get any cases.
You’re also ignoring the population difference of those states. Vermont has a population of 620,000 or so. The population of California is 38 million. New York is about 20 million. Just on population alone, you would expect there to be 40 times as many kindergarten classes in NY and 80 times as many in California. Vermont hasn’t had an outbreak because the statistically expected number of outbreaks is low enough that 0 is an expected result despite it’s lower vaccination rates.
Your source also can’t read the diagram he posted correctly. It indicated vaccination exemptions of 2.1-3% in California, not 1.1-2%
Perhaps the the people who are not vaccinated are not clustered and distributed evenly through the population-herd immunity applies.
Perhaps they are clustered and nobody in the cluster has been exposed-Monte Carlo rules-they haven’t rolled the right number yet. For example-I’m not immunized against Ebola virus, I don’t work with the Ebola virus, and have never (to my knowledge) come in contact with somebody who is infected, and you know what? I still haven’t come down with it yet-but if I’m exposed I’d say there is a 20-80% chance that I will be dead in a week.
BTW, 0.1-1% of the population in NY is a helluva lot bigger number than 6% in Oregon Vermont or Michigan, especially if they all live in the same place. You also have a lot more foreign vectors in NY than those other places. If people aren’t exposed, they won’t get the disease. That’s why we don’t vaccinate for smallpox anymore-nobody on the planet has had a naturally occurring infection since prior to 1979, and there are no other smallpox reservoirs except for the CDC in Atlanta and in Moscow-and they are tightly protected. How did we get rid of it? Hmmmmm….That’s right we vaccinated that mother right out of this world!
Sadly, the anti-vax extremists will tell you that “those diseases” were already dying out, and that they died out after vaccinations is just a coincidence. Like the coincidence that where unvaxxed kids are prevalent, these diseases are coming back.
Even more sadly, the majority of anti-vaxxers don’t even have THAT as an argument. Most don’t have any rhyme or reason not to vaccinate other than someone told them so and they generally have no idea why or even how vaccines work. This is proven my a LOT of terrible posts on this blog and many others I have read, and I have friends and family who unfortunately try to argue their incredible anti-vaccine opinions that are laughable.
In my province vaccination rates are overall pretty high. However there are pockets of communities in which nearly the entire community doesn’t vaccinate. We have a major outbreak with 300 cases in one of those right now. It’s so obviously caused by this pocket of non-vaccination. It spread like wildfire in their community. Even if they weren’t first to get it (I think it was said they brought it home from a holdup but maybe I’m thinking of something else… ), they are spreading it like crazy.
A state with lowered rates may just have their anti-vaxxers more spread out and experiencing more her protection. Or they live in a more isolated area and have just been lucky so far. The worst outbreaks seem to happen when they congregate in a large group – and that isn’t going to be reflected in you overall state vax rate.
Again, proving the herd community ‘theory’.
Unless you can tell me me what DOES cause it- then any point trying to prove what doesn’t is worthless to me bc YOU DONT KNOW. Do you have a child on the spectrum? I would guess no bc any parent with a child who WENT COMATOSE like mine after a vaccine would spit in your face. Did the vaccine cause it? I think his poor body couldn’t handle it- and the rest is why I LIVE WITH. Not you. You aren’t up all night researching how to help him or rocking him through his screams. You are up writing moronic articles about something that no one knows for sure and in turn are worthless. Get a life.
Not knowing what causes it and ruling out things that could cause it are two different things here. They don’t know what causes it but so far, they do know of a few things that DON’T cause it…one of them being vaccines. I do have a son with Autism…and not the kind where “they just learn differently”. He was diagnosed at age 3 (after tons of visits with specialists, hospital visits, observation, evaluations, etc.)…he received his first round of vaccines EVER at age 6. Clearly, vaccines did not cause my son’s severe, violent form of Autism.
example on cause and effect.
I know that if i hit myself on the hand with a hammer that action will not cause my toe on my left foot to bleed. I may not know what causes my toe to bleed, but I do know it is not caused by hitting my hand with a hammer.
Same with autism. you do not need to know what does cause it to be able to rule out what does not. Other wise you could say that since we do not know what CAUSES autism we can not rule out drinking water, talking to the cat, walking outside as causes of autism. You are you now claiming that a full grown adult is likely to get autism by walking do the road etc?
Risk factors for ASD-Fragile X syndrome, Downs Syndrome, mother 35+ at first birth, pre-term delivery, father older at conception, parent with ASD. Of course, since we haven’t identified the biochemical/anatomical/physiological changes associated with ASD, causative mechanisms are impossible to state. I can tell you what doesn’t cause it-vaccinations, O2 consumption, water consumption, exercise.
Perhaps this will help: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/opinion/sunday/how-to-think-about-the-risk-of-autism.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0&referrer=
Fantastic article. I really feel science should be a mandatory subject throughout second level education, it might help this whole thing on a bit. Also, newspapers which blasted out ‘MMR causes autism’ headlines should have been forced to headline ‘Doctor behind discredited study linking autism and MMR erased from medical register’. Several family members/friends are GPs and they still see parents every week who think the MMR causes autism
Teach everyone in high school critical thinking skills and give them a basic understanding of statistics too. Not everyone needs to be a scientist, but it would sure help if everyone had the tools necessary to separate reality from BS.
The anti-science crowd is out in force. They really don’t get the whole infectious disease thing because they’ve never had to actually deal with those diseases which were almost eliminated because of vaccines.
I’m getting too tired to be cynical.
So my question is this: if the effectiveness of vaccines is largely dependent on herd immunity, what value is there in getting vaccines prior to travelling to countries where the vaccination rates for the very illnesses supposedly being protected from, are either zero or minimal at best? Because based on the argument for mass vaccination, it appears there is no value for travel vaccines. I’m genuinely looking for an answer here.
Herd immunity is useful because vaccines aren’t 100% effective, and not everyone can get one (because of compromised immune systems, allergies, etc). But they are still effective for a large percentage (90%+) of those who get them.
If you get the full twinrix vaccine schedule for hepatitis, for instance, regardless of who else there has Hep A or B, there’s a 99.9% chance you’re protected against hep A, and a 98.5% chance you’re protected against hep B. So if you’re going somewhere where it’s prevalent, you’re not relying on herd immunity, you’re relying on the vaccine.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5037a4.htm
For something like measles, the vaccine is effective 85-95% of the time in one dose, and nearly 100% of the time after two, so those people wouldn’t catch it. But measles only needs about 5% of a population to be vulnerable to spread effectively. If 1 out of every 100 kids has some medical reason they can’t get the vaccine, this usually isn’t a problem. However if 1 in 20 doesn’t get it due to fearmongering or other non-medical reasons, they’re vulnerable, and they can drag the inoculation rate low enough to invalidate herd immunity, placing both themselves and those who were not vaccinated for valid reasons at risk.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig-gci/p04-meas-roug-eng.php#effimm
Herd immunity isn’t required to protect everyone, it’s required to protect those who either don’t get the vaccine, or for the small percentage for whom it isn’t effective. The vaccine prevents most people from getting it, herd immunity prevents diseases from getting enough vulnerable people together for the disease to take hold.
My question is: I paid for my children’s vaccinations BUT the Hep B Vaccines that 2 of my children got from the same Health Department DID NOT TAKE. We were informed that since they did not get the antibody from the shots that they likely received the shots from a “Bad Batch”. I can not recoup the $30.00 per shot at 3 shots each which is $180.00 and now they are grown & have THOUGHT they were “safe” for 10 years or so then ONLY b/c my daughter is a Nurse & had to get tested to prove she’d gotten the vaccination & found out the shots did not take… Both have been at risk, her especially since she has been Nursing in Prisons for about a year & a half before someone was required to check to make sure she did not falsify her records… And now BOTH have to be re-vaccinated & will have to bear the new higher cost of the shots. What can be done in a case like this? And what happens to the people who are not nurses & don’t have to have their shots verified by checking the blood for the antibodies???
Here’s my offer. Release the plague via aerosol by commercial airliners. You have one week to decide whether you want to be treated or not. No symptoms for a week. After that week, you can, under no circumstances be treated for plague or its symptoms. Please like if you would decide not to be treated.
But what about things like Hep B that either: (1) Kill the Victim. (2) Make them become Chronic Carriers forever & they survive but are forever contagious – even through spit contact & may not even know it… Or (3) They can become well & gain immunity to Hep B – as I did. And VERY Contrary to Popular Belief, Sex & Drugs are Not the ONLY way to contract Hep B. It can come from urine on a toilet seat from a relative or friend that may not even know they are chronic because sometimes it doesn’t cause an “Active Sickness” & THAT is how it got the nickname “The Silent Killer”…
There is NO Treatment for Hepatitis B. You either get worse & become chronic, Die or get well…. Most become Chronic, Many Die & now a days some of us get lucky & survive with immunity… You sound like a terrorist…
Thank you so much Jennifer for writing this and I could not agree more with you. This is something I am trying to campaign against. I’m a paediatric nurse and a studying nutritionist and I am worried about the increasing rate of parents choosing not to get their children vaccinated against. These parents a putting the lives of others at risk as well as their own children.
Awesome article! I will be sharing on my page
“these parents are putting the lives of others at risk as well as their own children”
no one is responsible for anyones children but their own. If a parent chooses to vaccinate how would those children be affected by those who dont? vise versa? or if two parents decide not to vaccinate how is there any danger to the children?
You’re being lazy. This is answered in the article. Read before asking the same spammy question that AVers pretend is a trump card everywhere. It’s not.
AGAIN, the misinformed ignorance of another anti-vaxxer…..
Unfortunately, my children (both of them) were in the minority and DID have severe reactions to the vaccines. Each one was to the extreme that they were hospitalized after they received their 2 month vaccines. I took it that my son was a lone exception, but my daughter had the same reaction. They held off the vaccines until they were much older. I was very wary of having them done at all, but did relent when my son turned 4. He still had reactions, but did not require hospitalization. My daughter was again hospitalized. Neither of them has had any since, as their doctors decided it was not worth the risk. Neither has had diptheria, pertussis, polio, or measles. They are now 21 and 18 and are extremely healthy. I am not saying it is not a good idea to vaccinate, I just understand that there are those who cannot.
Right–and protecting those who cannot is a key piece of vaccination. WIthout herd immunity, your children are at risk. The anti-vaxxers are putting them at risk, even now.
“The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it”
^^^That is fantabulous! I love it!
“They say that “natural infection” is better than vaccination.
But they’re wrong.”
i expected this to link to an article comparing different forms of immunity, though the article says nothing on the topic, beyond stating the dangers of the disease and the fact that Measles parties are occurring.
i’m not ‘them’, but i think they say that the immunity gained through natural infection is superior to that gained through vaccination (i.e., that it confers greater resistance to reinfection). you, on the other hand, seem to be pointing to the fact that natural infection is *more dangerous* than vaccination… that, at least, is all that the article you refer to covers.
these are two separate issues.
seems to me that you are the one uneducated about this topic. Where is your evidence? what makes you think that just because your children werent affected by the vaccines that no one else should have an issue?
i can tell you this, my first two children didnt have the hib shot… my last two got the HIB shot for the very first time at 3 years old and 16 months. guess what, they both went into the drs with perfect health, after the shot they both started to have constipation, GUESS WHAT, constipation isnt even on the LIST of side affects.
if it were justmy one child who got the shot and ended up with constipation i most likely wouldnt have even thought it was a side affect but because both got it at the same time after the HIB shot it shot up red flags… they are still struggling its been over a month. ive tried all sorts of remedies. my baby is in pain everytime she poops. my 3 year old drops rocks… so you cannot tell me that vaccines dont come with risks. each child is different and each child can react differently AUTISM, CONSTIPATION, HIVES, DEATH, ALLERGIES, what have you, and i believe we as parents need to be smart and decide whats best for our children and though im NOT against vaccines i do believe in following MY OWN schedule. because YES your childs immune system can be compromised.
OMG, constipation! No wonder you’re willing to risk measles, whooping cough, and polio! For your kids and others. @@
I have raised 4 children. one is on the spectrum, high functioning, verbal but has ODD & PTSD. All are grown, he is the youngest. He is my brother, but I raised him as he was adopted late in Our parents lives & they became unable to care for him before they died. He had all his shots, not one complication. His Autism as well as his PTSD was evident BEFORE the shots ever started. Yes, as an infant in his crib he was a non-sleeper, a climber, a run-off-every-time-we-took-our-eyes-off-him Type who learned to walk AND Climb Vary high & carefully – VERY Early. BUT, on the other hand, my youngest biological child could not take the DTP shot… He was allergic or sensitive in the least to the Pertussis portion of the shot, so after the headache & crying caused from the first shot, they gave him the TD shot & he did FINE afterwards… If a child has a reaction, there are alternatives to make sure they CAN get the other vaccinations that do not cause problems… The only reason Small Pox & Polio (which caused my best friend as a child’s Mother to be Handicapped) & Measles (which caused my grandmother to be deaf from birth) – The only reason these diseases have been eradicated & brought under control is because of the vaccinations. I am a Genealogist…. Do you realize how many WHOLE FMILIES Died & are Buried Together in Cemeteries Across the US from the days when there were no vaccines & whole families would DIE from some of these diseases… This is one of the things that unless we all DO work together, those diseases could reap the same pain as in those days again…. Yes, some kids can’t have the shots – But we have to vaccinate the ones who CAN in ORDER to Protect the ones who CAN’T….
Wow. Constipation. My guess for the reason constipation isn’t on the list of side effects, is because vaccines don’t cause constipation! Something more likely is that they are siblings, thus being on similar diets. Occam’s Razor….when you have a problem, the most likely solution is the simplest.
Thank you Jennifer for your article.
I did vaccinate my children for every thing except chicken pox. I am surrounded by families who don’t vaccinate their children. When I went to the CDC site to read up on it and to make an informed decision on whether or not to vaccinate the compelling reason that “they” said was that it would keep me from loosing two weeks of work.
That to me is not a good reason to give my children the chicken pox vaccine. I also felt like as a mom, I could decide with research and talking to my doctor that I could set the rate at which my children got their vaccines. I strongly felt like having my day old child get 4 shots in his tiny leg was too much. I am a stay at home mom and my husband works from home, because of our living situation, I felt that slowing down the schedule was best for our family. It was not recommended by my Dr. but she respected our wishes. I feel like there are people on both sides of this issue that are trying to tell other people what to do. Maybe if families with new babies were talked to and given a chance to have a candid conversation instead of feeling like their Dr. or other people in the community were going to look down on them, more families would vaccinate. I feel like that with breast feeding also, but that is a slightly different conversation.
Chicken pox is much worse when contracted as an adult. Look up “shingles”. It is so bad that CDC recommends older people get shingles vaccines (basically chicken pox vaccines for adults). As fas as “slowing down vaccines”, all you are doing is increasing the time that your child is vulnerable to catching and being harmed by dangerous disease. There is no scientific justification. As far as not wanting to see your kid get more than one injection, honestly, that’s you putting your short-term emotions over the health and safety of your child. I would not let my kid avoid an immunization because it made him cry- I just held him for a minute afterwards. All better. That’s all it takes.
Definitely the best post I have seen on the topic. I have shared on my personal Facebook page and (along with my comments) in my blog.
btw… I have triplets. Born at 28 weeks and all were on an immunization schedule in the NICU. My son is autistic (not caused by shots) and my youngest daughter caught whooping cough and spent 24 very scary hours in the ER even with the vaccination. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if she had NOT received the shot.
Keep up the great work and I’m so glad to follow you.
If u are so sure vaccines are safe and work 100% and have no side effects why do non vaccinated people put vaccinated people at risk?
Why do autistic children have measles mumps and other viruses stuck in their bodies? Which cause the inflammation? I could go on and on with the scientific evidence that is also been proven for vaccine injury. People just need to accept there are a lot genetic types out there in this generation that can’t handle the immunizations. As we are all different we react different. Some of us react to heart medications etc some of us don’t. Maybe some of us are sensitive to immunizations and the fillers and substances in them. All of u commenting on the people not vaccinating obviously have never had a bad vaccines or injury or else u wouldn’t comment. If u had been injured u might think twice
Cluck,
please provide references showing that case controlled studies have demonstrated that “autistic children have measles mumps and other viruses stuck in their bodies” while age and situation and health history OTHER than having autism children do NOT have viruses “stuck in their bodies” AND that age and situation matched autistic children who were not vaccinated and had the viral illnesses do or don’t have viruses “stuck in their bodies”.
Your statement “Which cause inflammation” makes no sense even in context. What causes inflammation? Do children with autism who’ve had immunizations show different kinds, amounts, locations of inflammation than age & situation matched children with autism who have NOT been vaccinated? And different kinds of inflammation than children without autism that have and have not been immunized. Oh, and in order to reduce the risk of investigator bias, the specimens should be examined by appropriately educated/trained lab scientists who do NOT know ANYTHING about the patients from whom the specimens were collected, and it would be best if each specimen was analyzed by 2 separate labs with neither lab knowing what the other lab found. Once the specimens have been matched back with the source patients, an analysis of correlation with a view to speculating about causation can be performed. Until that has been done, well, you might as well consult an astrology chart or see your neighborhood psychic for your diagnostic information. It’s either science or it’s opinion.
You might also try researching causes of death prior to the use of x-ray machines and lab tests for diagnosis. For instance — see how many people in a big city died of consumption and try to determine who died of tuberculosis, who died of black lung disease, who died of lung cancer, and who died of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It’s an interesting challenge. Accurately determining cause and effect prior to collection of adequate data is a rather futile exercise.
Finally, I’d like the source of your information about genetic variability now versus, say, 2 or 3 decades ago. I wasn’t aware that the human genome project had developed that kind of analysis already. Historically, it’s generally been postulated that major genetic shifts that occur over only 2 or 3 generations result in non-viable offspring and are lost to posterity, however if you have evidence that some sort of major shift has occurred, again, I’d love to see the evidence.
I agree with you Hancock330, but I did want to post that there ARE viruses that do stay “stuck in “their” bodies.” Not in children/adults with autism but everyone. The virus that causes chicken pox and shingles…..stays in your body for the rest of your life. I never had chicken pox (I’m 41 and was around kids who did have it when I was a child – got lucky!). When my son went to have his chicken pox vaccine (a year before his kidney transplant – he can’t have live vaccines anymore), they checked my titer (I think that’s what it’s called?). The doctor said that some people have these diseases, but never show any symptoms (and of course can pass them on to others without even knowing they are sick!). Well, my labs showed I had NEVER had the virus. So I had to get the shot too, since my son getting it could cause me to get it (I was his main caregiver). Of course, being an adult I had to have two injections – a month apart. Anyway, sorry if I’m rambling. I think all children should get vaccinated (unless there is a confirmed medical reason not to), but I did wonder if maybe “Chuck” MIGHT have been talking about the viruses that remain in your body? (doubt it, since he only mentioned people with autism). Both of my son’s have autism. My oldest was born with kidney failure and was not suppose to live at all. Having watched him, expecting him to die and also watched him struggle with autism……I’ll take autism over death. No parent WANTS their child to suffer, just some don’t want to listen to the facts….NOTHING is 100%. Nothing is 100% safe. I don’t care how careful you are about buying organic, non-gmo, etc….there is so much toxicity in the world….it’s everywhere. All we can do is learn and do what we can to help our children and our neighbor’s children (in a global sense) be as healthy and happy as possible. Not all of them will be…..we can only hope for most.
The chickenpox virus apparently stays in spinal nerves forever after one is infected with the virus — under circumstances that may vary from person to person, years to decades after the original infection the virus can “wake up” and migrate down the nerve causing the characteristic rash/blisters and. often, extreme pain. I don’t know if the immunization creates the same situation. The youngest person I personally knew who got shingles had a mild case of chickenpox as a toddler and shingles when she was 5. Most folks who get shingles are middle-aged and older. Currently, almost everyone who is getting shingles HAD chickenpox as a child. This is NOT a problem of the vaccine. In addition, a most unfortunate minority of the people who get shingles not only have the intense pain and itching for days to weeks — 6 weeks is not uncommon from what I remember — but after the rash subsides the continue with “post-herpetic neuralgia”. Nerve pain along the nerve root where the shingles rash was. That pain can vary from being an annoyance to being excruciating — and for those with severe pain, even narcotics may not be effective in controlling the pain. Historically, there were reports of people committing suicide to escape post-herpetic neuralgia.
One can also Google “Chickenpox scars” and see photographs and read about the plastic surgery procedures that may be performed to reduce the impact of the most severe scars.
I spoke recently with an adult who had gotten chickenpox when she was 20 — and mention the agony of the lesions in particularly private and sensitive places.
Not something to risk when a vaccination can at best prevent the disease, and can almost always at least attenuate the severity of the disease. And if, like the tetanus immunization, we eventually learn that periodic boosters are needed, well, better a shot every decade or so that risk permanent scarring, disability, or death from the disease.
My rheumatologist also wonders about if a person who got the chicken pox vaccine can actually get shingles. I asked her about it because she started me on medications for rheumatoid arthritis and they often recommend a shingles vaccine since they depress your immune system. But, insurance usually doesn’t cover the shingles vaccine unless the person is above a certain age (I am not), so I’m hoping that having never had the actual disease, I might escape shingles as well! My brother is 39 and has never had chicken pox….neither of us did as kids, even though we were exposed to kids who did have it. I often wonder if there is such a thing as natural immunity to chicken pox….maybe my brother and I were just lucky.
I’m sorry, but I cannot get past your first paragraph….. did you actually read the blog?? Did you do any actual research at all? Because if you did, you would already know that vaccines are NOT 100% effective and DO have side affects and that I would dare to say that most pro-vaxxers are aware of this and that THIS is not at all the argument. Just throwing that out there.
Vaccines aren’t tested with respect to scheduling. Meaning all of those studies look at the new vaccine by itself, and not in combination with whatever other vaccines will be administered at the same visit. This is a weakness of current vaccine testing schemes and isn’t addressed by your articles.
Another aspect of it is that some vaccines could wait – most specifically the Hep B vaccine that happens right after birth. If the infant is premature, and therefore low-weight, the dose of mercury in the vaccine is toxic. Waiting a few months until the infant weighs a bit more makes sense unless they will need excessive medical care/will have other exposures. And every vaccine could wait a week until your kid actually feels well. Giving a sick kid a shot isn’t worth it, as I’m sure it increases side effects that would be quite concerning/irritating for parents, especially fevers.
Vaccines schedules are tested and adjusted frequently, for safety and maximum effectiveness. That includes making sure there are not too many doctor visits required, because too many trips causes the vaccination coverage rate to drop.
Your second paragraph, about mercury toxicity, is pure anti-vax garbage. Most vaccines have no mercury at all. There is more mercury in one tuna sandwich than in all vaccines given in a lifetime. Yes, ‘mercury is toxic’, but (a) dosage matters, and (b) some chemical forms are more dangerous than others.
As far as waiting a week if your child is ill, why yes, doctors *do* make that assessment. You did not need to teach that to the medical establishment. They could have taught you that- you just needed to listen. Try listening to the rest of what they have to say- perhaps start with Jennifer’s post, above.
In the 1950’s my great aunt Cudgie who had survived London in WW2 was 6 months married when she contracted Polio ( no vaccine then) She spent 2 years in an iron lung TWO YEARS!! http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/howpolio/ironlung.htm
When she was finally discharged from hospital she was never able to walk again…or have children. She was astonishingly funny …I was a kid who knew of her as my ‘great aunt in a wheelchair’ but as I grew older the implications of what she had gone through became more clear to me… I will always remember her as the bravest person I ever knew. GET VACCINATED. This is not just about children catching stuff…people grow up…and they are still susceptible!
Thanks for writing this. I know it won’t make a difference to people who are convinced that vaccines are “poison,” or a conspiracy, but maybe it will help those who are confused and just don’t know what to believe or where to look for information.
Both of my boys have autism, they were “off” from birth. My husband also has many symptoms of high functioning autism. I don’t. I think in our family it’s genetic.
My oldest was born with kidney failure. He was expected to be stillborn. Then we were told he needed dialysis, but we shouldn’t treat him. Well, we didn’t listen, we looked for answers. Doctors aren’t gods, but they do have a lot more education and experience than most of us. They are human and ego can get in the way, so you still need to learn what you can and check into things, especially if something doesn’t seem right.
He had a kidney transplant at age 5, so was able to get in all his vaccines up until that age. He can no longer have live vaccines. I just pray what he did have was enough to protect him. He got many of them while on dialysis and I guess that can cause your body not to create the antibodies, but they checked his titers before transplant and he was ok.
Maybe I live in la-la land, but I care about everyone’s children, not just mine. I don’t want any of them to suffer or die. Sadly, that will continue to happen whether I want it to or not. Too many awful things in the world.
Sometimes reading some anti-vax posts really makes me think of my older son. He does not have severe autism, it was moderate before his transplant, but he improved after that. Started communicating, using words. He’s far from “typical,” but at least he’s more functional than some kids. He will listen to something and only hear 1/2 of what you said (or less) and immediately answer or say something that makes no sense because he didn’t listen to the whole thing. He has trouble understanding words anyway, but when you miss half of what was said….it makes it hard to see the facts.
Herd immunity goes hand in hand with herd mentality. Wake up people. Go talk to people who know 100% that their child was good before a vaccination or shot and afterwards was damaged in some way (either mentally, physically and even death). I don’t need scientific studies to know whats wrong and whats right. We need to focus on boosting our health and cleaning up our lifestyle not relying on the cure all from a profit driven industry.
“I don’t need scientific studies to know whats wrong and whats right.” You are certainly free to reject science as a way of knowing about the world, so long as you understand and accept the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately, in this case the rest of us (and our children!) have to pay the price for your belief system.
I’ve had vaccines and my 3 children had vaccines and we are all perfectly healthy. So look at all those cases too! What is the actual percentage of people that have reactions? Why is it more common now? I never heard of reactions when I was a child in the 70’s. So what has changed? If the vaccines are the same, then perhaps it’s something else that has changed. My children had vaccines in 1993, 2000, and 2003 and again, they are all fine, healthy, straight A students. Every teacher’s conference indicates that they are all well behaved, polite and focused. What do all the “naturalists” say about that?? We rarely ever get sick in this house or go to a doctor. I’ve never had the flu! (knock on wood)
Unbelievable! Sheer ignorance! LOL
I can’t believe what I’m reading, and how many stupid people there are in this world. If you choose not to vaccinate your children you are a complete and utter moroon.
sometimes spelling mistakes are so precious
The only stupid people in the world are the people who are not open to discussing topics and remaining open minded. They used to murder people for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun. It’s the same with people nowadays who blindly believe vaccines are good for everyone. Wake up.
So I assume the anti-vaxers also don’t wash their hands after using the restroom, because it isn’t their problem if they spread a bacteria to my child or myself? I assume they figure it’s not their responsibility. And I also have to assume you don’t follow traffic laws? Because who cares about cross traffic when YOU are only responsible for yourself? They should have stopped, because you dont HAVE TO. My gym has an “unofficial” rule about wiping the equipment down after you use it. Should I just leave my ass sweat for someone else to sit in because I don’t have to wipe it down? As less people have immunity, these diseases will spread again. With all of our scientific knowledge we will still have people dying from things they shouldn’t. All because some people don’t science very well. Ignorance isn’t an excuse.
People who don’t science very well are people who don’t inform themselves and think for themselves. If you look at the stats, diseases started disappearing when humans began to understand that personal hygiene cuts the risk of infection. In fact, if you want to look up the data instead of just reading government websites, you will find that measles rates actually began to decrease when public officials began to spread information about washing hands after the bathroom, not vaccine introduction.
LOL, love it Jackie!
People who think today’s vaccines.. (not the stuff we got in the 60’s) aren’t harmful to the human body are similar to people in 1491 who thought the world was flat and the Sun orbits the Earth. Time to get with the time and stop beLIEving everything the government tells you. It’s funny how pro-vaccine people call this Science. Science isn’t all peaches and cream. Science has created the atom bomb and ton of other oppressive weapons that are used everyday. Careful how you use the word “Science” as a word that means well being and advancement for everyone, it makes you look foolish.
I don’t think anyone would say that science is all about “well being” since, like you said, it’s come up with some horrible things. But, it also has come up with some amazing things that have saved lives and improved them. If you are using a computer or smart phone…..you need to thank science. Also, I’ve never met anyone who said that vaccines aren’t harmful. Just like everything else in the world, there are people who have horrible reactions to the. They could have a reaction to anything. A bee sting, something they eat, some pollen or pollutant in the air. There isn’t anything in this world that can be labeled as not harmful. Also, back when people thought the world was flat, they did not do any studies or research into it. Science involves more than belief. It was science that led to people learning that washing their hands could help prevent disease.
My wife was raised a Christian Scientist. Not getting vaccines as a child nearly killed her. She also witnessed the suffering of other kids in that predicament. As an asthmatic, the pneumonia vaccine has changed (and saved) her life.
Until you’ve sat in a hospital watching a loved one nearly die because she didn’t get a vaccine you should really just STFU about things you know nothing about. Worse than nothing as you’ve filled your mind with drivel.
So yes, you anti-vaxxers are setting your children up for torturous suffering and death. Do us all a favor, please wall yourselves up somewhere so you don’t do injury to the rest of us. We’ll arrange for your kids to be taken care of in a responsible fashion while you’re away and dying off from disease and illness.
Honestly, there is SO much information out there it is hard to know what to believe. The fact is that our government DOES lie to us. So where do you go? All the scientific articles and information are from the government. All the other articles are not. What do we believe anymore? Until I run those tests myself (which I am SO not qualified or smart enough to do) it’s basically a he said/she said and you take from it what you can.
My experience with vaccines has been this: My perfectly healthy son had a severe reaction to a fever spike he got from vaccinations when he was 4 months old. We were told to actually stop giving him vaccinations until he was a year old and then play catch up. If you have never had a child suddenly start convulsing as he is breastfeeding, then don’t judge me. But it scared me enough that I put off vaccinations until he went to school and at 9 years of age, we are still playing catch up because some of the side effects from vaccinations are scary to a mother…especially one like me who was never supposed to be able to carry a baby to term. It’s been a slow process. It is a weird thought to have my child shot up with a virus. I get that it’s important and we ARE playing catch up but…please don’t judge some of us more timid mothers. We love our children as much as you love yours and we are doing the best we can with what we know, understand, and are trying to accomplish.
I also happen to have a baby (now a little over 2 years) that had to have open heart surgery very soon after birth. We were not allowed to vaccinate her due to possible complications. We are now playing catch up. She is actually much more ahead of the catch up schedule than my 9 year old is.
Personally, I am not against vaccinations. I don’t love them though. And I HATE taking my kids in to get them. I am sure that they do more harm than good. We are probably putting WAY worse into our bodies every time we grab a cheeseburger somewhere or drink processed milk. But for some of us, putting chemicals knowingly into our children IS a difficult decision. And it has NOTHING to do with not caring about YOUR child. I have been to FAR too many infant funerals since my daughter was born as we watched as babies died from heart failure. So don’t think those of us who are afraid to vaccinate can be lumped into a group and branded as zealots or selfish or even stupid. Some of us are just more cautious. My kids ARE on a catch up schedule and I am so glad that I am spreading their vaccinations out. Maybe they are not vaccinated as quickly as other children, but with my son’s reaction and my daughters extreme medical care, this is how it is for us.
Anyway, just wanted to throw a different scenario in there for everyone to see. It’s our families unique perspective. Maybe it will help to know that there are some of us who HATE the vaccinations and ARE unsure of the effectiveness, but we do begrudgingly get ourselves and our children vaccinated. Even if it is a bit more slowly. We are not all zealots who wish they didn’t have to vaccinate.
“All the scientific articles and information are from the government.” That’s not actually true. Most scientists, although their research is funded by tax dollars, aren’t working FOR the government. The people who decide what research gets funded are their colleagues, not government workers. I think that if you were able to shadow us around in our daily activities, you’d see that there’s not some sinister intention here–we freely conduct research, and we critique each others’ work very strenuously before it is allowed to be published.
there is one of the first thoughtful posters with a different view on here and do you say any of the same things to her? Like “thank you for sharing your story” or “must have been difficult” or any of the other words you used for previous posters brave enough to share a personal experience (who happened to fit your agenda)? No.
She was rational and balanced in her approach she just wasn’t being zealous like most people on here and she IS STILL VACCINATING HER CHILDREN. You focus on the ONE thing she said that you’d like to debate a point on. Well I’d like to debate you. If you are trying to pose to the public that there are no politics among institutions of academia and what to do with government funded research dollars or who gets published and who doesn’t then the only being manipulative and untruthful here, is you.
Thanks for noticing and thanks even more so for noticing that we have traveled a tough road with an extremely sick child we watched struggle for every breath in her body the first year of her life.
I cringe at people’s insensitivity and bias on here for sure. This author has commented on so many other anecdotes in a sensitive manner but I have noticed she only has supportive or positive comments for people who don’t oppose her statements or position in any way. Keep sharing your story. Please. People need to hear alternative views so they can make balanced judgements for themselves.
I find it ironic that no one cares about personal stories but all data on humans is is a collection of personal stories whose content and particulars are thus forgotten by programming them as a number. Or as someone so eloquently and sensitively put on here, “a data point.” Most seem to have absolutely no respect for the field of qualitative research or evidence even though anecdotal evidence appears in peer-reviewed scientific periodicals regularly and some of the most amazing scientific discoveries were based on one anecdote, an outlier, a peculiarity.
I admire your dedication and passion and that you were able to make thoughtful decisions and a reasonable compromise that works for you and your family. Your children are so lucky to have you. I spaced out all of my sons’ vaccinations too but I was fortunate enough to have fairly healthy children so they all get caught up by the time they are ready to start school. Well so far anyway. My youngest is still only 6 months.
It is just really hard to know who to believe. But like I said, we do vaccinate. We just don’t like it. I do believe that others know what is best (usually) for their own children. I try to reserve judgement in most cases and see the good from all angles. I think some people call that being cautiously open-minded. I get that as a medical professional you have much more schooling than I do, and I do defer to what our pediatrician recommends as far as medical care for my children. But I do have an opinion and I do not like my children being shot up with ANY virus. I get nervous every time I get the flu shot for myself! But unlike probably most people, our ENTIRE family gets vaccinated. And that includes my mother who watches my daughter for me Monday through Friday. We do what is recommended but if I didn’t question what was being done to my children and even myself, that wouldn’t make me a very good person. It would just make me stupid. So forgive me that I am cautious about what to believe. I am truly doing the very best that I can do.
I’ve found this to be very beneficial tool. It’s a herd immunity simulator. Since vaccines to do not confer 100% immunity, the greatest benefit of vaccines is herd immunity. When 90% or more of the population is vaccinated, diseases never get a toehold in a population, and you’re unlikely to ever be exposed to that disease in the first place. This simulator shows how much further a disease spreads as vaccination levels drop.
http://www.software3d.com/Home/Vax/Immunity.php
First, know that I’m not against all vaccines. BUT – please show me the long term study showing that current ~50 doses of vaccines before age 5 protocol is safe. And by long term, I mean following the children at least through the beginning adulthood with a control group of no vaxers and a control group using the older protocol from the 70s. THEN you can claim it has been rigorously tested.
The test you’re proposing would be unethical, since it would require keeping children unvaccinated or using an outdated protocol when we have very good evidence that the current protocol is effective and safe. Similarly, you can’t study the effectiveness of antibiotics on pneumonia by using a control group that doesn’t get medicine or only gets treated according to forty-year old protocols.
The safety and effectiveness of vaccines, including the vaccine schedule, has been studied. Please refer to the article above for some convenient links to that information.
Our species needs a good purge of the stupid.
We’re overpopulating and overloading our resources.
We have no natural predators besides each other and our own stupidity.
This outbreak of adults refusing protection may be just the thing to save our future.
Thank you for the brilliant blog post.
Everything about parents making the uneducated decision to NOT vaccinate is one of the most frustrating things ever to me… thank you for this amazing article! It is my fear, also, that it’s going to take a much scarier outbreak (like polio) for people to pull their heads out of the sand.
I think one of the reasons people are so anti-vaccine is because the use of force is so prevalent today. People are lashing out at the only thing they actually have a choice over. Fighting amongst each other, name calling, and insults only takes away from the actual problem.