“A cousin of my mom’s survived Polio and lived the rest of his life with its effects. He was not expected to live past his teens but made it to his 40s. I am grateful that modern science can protect us from Polio and other diseases and I choose to take advantage of modern science to give my kid better odds of not dying from a preventable disease. I had heard a lot of noise from people claiming vaccines caused Autism, but never saw any clear evidence. It just seemed to me like people really wanted to point to something as the cause and they latched onto vaccines.”–Jennifer
I have been getting into a lot of discussions about whether vaccines are safe in the last few days. I’m not sure if it’s because of a post going viral about a (terrible) Italian court ruling last year (In contrast, American courts side with doctors and scientists on vaccine safety) or Jenny McCarthy’s recent hiring as co-host on “The View”, or simply (as a friend suggested to me today) the fact that a new school year is starting soon and parents are having to provide vaccination records to schools.
“(I got my children vaccinated) because the science supports it and I don’t want my kids to die. And civic reasons. It’s so straightforward.”–Britta
Whatever the reason, this week I’ve been in many conversations with individuals staunchly against vaccinations, parents who are very upset at the idea of unvaccinated children putting their own kids at risk, and parents who are confused and worried and want to know how to make the best decision possible for their children’s safety. I’m writing this for the third group of parents.
What’s going on?
There has been a very steep decrease in the rate of vaccinations recently, particularly (but I want to stress not only) within communities of affluent, well-educated parents. [UPDATE: Keep in mind that there’s considerable diversity among anti-vaccine proponents. A conservative religious community here in Texas, opposed to vaccines because “faith should be enough”, is currently experiencing an outbreak of measles].
“It’s that whole natural, BPA-free, hybrid car community that says ‘we’re not going to put chemicals in our children,’” Shapiro told Salon. “It’s that same idea: ‘I’m going to be pure and I want to keep my child pure.’”
California law mandates that all students get vaccinated, but it also makes it easy to get exemptions for personal beliefs. And parents in tony places like Marin County are taking advantage of it in seemingly growing numbers. One public elementary school in Malibu, an affluent beach town just north of Los Angeles, reported that only 58 percent of their students are immunized — well below the recommended 90-plus percent level — according to Shapiro.
And it’s even worse in some of L.A.’s private schools, where as few as 20 percent of kids are vaccinated in some schools. “Yes, that’s right: Parents are willingly paying up to $25,000 a year to schools at which fewer than 1 in 5 kindergartners has been immunized against the pathogens causing such life-threatening illnesses as measles, polio, meningitis and pertussis (more commonly known as whooping cough),” she wrote. –from http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/ (Emphasis mine)
This is particularly frustrating when there is overwhelming evidence that vaccinations DO NOT cause autism. As the wonderful blog Science Based Medicine puts it:
“At this point, the evidence is so utterly overwhelming that there is not a whiff of a hint of a whisper of a correlation between vaccines and autism that it has become irritating that antivaccine activists keep pressuring scientists to do the same study over and over again, coming up with the same results over and over again, and then seeing antivaccinationists fail to believe those same results over and over again. Apparently, antivaccine activists think that if the same sorts of studies are done enough times, there will be a positive result implicating vaccines as a risk factor for or contributing cause to autism.”
Why are parents choosing not to vaccinate their children?
I think there are several reasons, but they all may have some connection to misunderstanding of what the scientific evidence on this issue is, or resistance to perceived authority. In Western cultures, we’re accustomed to framing every public issue as two-sided. People who refuse to acknowledge that there’s legitimacy to the other side are “unfair.” I think this viewpoint is really muddling the vaccine safety conversation. When the media presents scientists on one side, and Natural News on the other, it’s creating a false equivalency. The anti-vaxxers have no credible scientific evidence supporting their position, but placing them opposite a scientist makes it seem like there are two legitimate sides to this debate. There aren’t. The simple fact is that there’s overwhelming scientific consensus that the MMR vaccine doesn’t cause autism.
“I unapolagetically vaccinate my kid, and it’s not just because that’s what you do, it’s because I really looked at what the science said and made a decision based on facts, evidence, and rational weighing of risk-benefit. I think the problem is that it’s easier to feel off the hook for risking your kids via inaction rather than action. But realistically, the risks of vaccination are so much less than the risks of what could happen if your child does get a vaccine-preventable disease, and you are also protecting those who *can’t* be vaccinated. That’s why I get a flu shot. Not because I am going to die of the flu, but to protect the elderly, infants, and immunocompromised folks I might come into contact with.” –Melissa (emphasis mine)
Do vaccines work?
Yes. Here are some of the diseases prevented with vaccinations:
from “Demographics of Unvaccinated Chidren”, National Network for Immunization Information.
Do vaccines cause autism?
No. As a starting point for you, here’s a roundup of trustworthy scientific resources for you to read on your own (everything is peer-reviewed, or contains links to peer-reviewed articles):
Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25349/
Vaccine Safety studies (a bunch of studies, with notes about what they mean): http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf
Concerns about vaccine safety (this is really great, and written in layman’s language) http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-safety/concerns-about-vaccine-safety
How do we know that scientists and doctors are right?
I’ve been asked about this quite a bit lately. One person asked me “why aren’t we getting peered reviewed research from other points of view?” The reason is quite simple: there isn’t any.
Scientific research works like this:
You start with the specific questions “Does the MMR vaccine cause autism?”, “Does the MMR vaccine increase the risk of inflammatory bowel disease?” and so forth. You then design a study to test that question. It’s not starting from one “side” or the other, trying to seek proof for it. That’s the way politics works, not science. When you get an answer, it’s either “yes” or “no” (actually it tends to be “there is a statistically significant association between this drug and this disease” or “there is NOT a statistically significant association between this drug and this disease.”) Your results are submitted to experts for peer review. These experts then go over your results and methods with a fine-toothed comb, trying to find weaknesses in your approach, or over-interpretation of the results. They evaluate your statistics to make sure that they’re correct. If they decide that it’s acceptable (and this is usually a very hard test to pass), your paper gets published and is considered “peer-reviewed.” But that’s not the end.
Studies are then done by other research groups to both test and build upon your results. While the initial screen by peer reviewers is very stringent, it doesn’t always catch mistakes, and can miss identifying faked data (for example, Andrew Wakefield’s paper got past peer review because the reviewers didn’t catch that his data were fraudulent). However, all scientific research is iterative–that is, it builds upon a foundation created by other research. So if your results are wrong, or faked, it will quickly become obvious to other researchers who try to replicate or use them. Scientific consensus is VERY hard to achieve. So when it happens, pay attention.
Why do I (and others) keep harping on “peer-reviewed” studies? Why do I (and others) refuse to acknowledge the truth of what X blogger says?
Science operates based on the philosophy that the truth is knowable if we design experiments correctly, and we do enough of them to rigorously test our hypotheses. And I hope that you know by now that anyone with a keyboard can make stuff up. Peer review is how we test that someone isn’t making things up. Experts in your field have to agree with your conclusions.
But what about Andrew Wakefield’s research?
“I got my son vaccinated after doing research about it. I had been going through birthing classes that were against it, but the scientist in me questioned what they were saying. I found the info about the falsified info about autism. I still couldn’t believe (and still can’t) that parents would hold chicken pox parties. I’d had chicken pox as a kid, and I know about shingles. It just made sense to me.”–Charity
Andrew Wakefield faked his data for profit. His medical license has been revoked as a consequence. It’s important that people know that the the link between vaccines/autism is based on an outright lie–most of the other authors on the paper have removed their names from it. You can read more about this story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/14/andrew-wakefield-great-science-fraud/
What are the consequences of not vaccinating your children?
“We chose to vaccinate Vera on a regular schedule, and to be honest I did not do extensive research. I read enough to know that the studies showing an autism link were bad science and I found a pediatrician I really trusted and talked to her about it. I also really do believe that those of us with healthy kids should vaccinate to protect children who have compromised immune systems.”–Faye
Harm to your child:
Penn and Teller illustrate this beautifully (if profanely: language NSFW)
To put it simply, your child is at risk of contracting a preventable disease.
What happens in the absence of our vaccination program? Read about it here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm
Harm to other children:
“Unvaccinated children are concentrated in particular states, increasing the risk of transmitting vaccine-preventable diseases to other unvaccinated children, undervaccinated children and fully vaccinated children.” http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/demographics-unvaccinated-children
One person with whom I was discussing this issue (he has not vaccinated his kids, but does homeschool them) put forth a hypothesis:
“but if you are correct, i guess in the near future the progressive states will have noticeable outbreaks (and not just the ones you read about), ones that touch somebody you know, as more and more hippy parents stop vaccinating their kids. stay clear of the pacific northwest or perish. ahaha. nah, we are growing super strong natural kids for the future here, and not ones reliant on medicines from a lab. we are sprouting wings and soon we shall fly to furthest regions of the universe and beyond”
I agree with that hypothesis. Unlike the rest of his comment, it’s quite scientific. IF vaccines are protective, and IF parents are choosing not to vaccinate, we should be seeing outbreaks of those diseases in states where the rate of non-vaccination is highest.
This is indeed the case. Here are two examples:
Incidents of whooping cough (pertussis) are significantly higher in states that easily allow parents exceptions from the vaccination. In Washington state alone, there was a 1,300% increase in cases.
Have you ever taken care of a child with pertussis? I have. This is what it’s like (warning: video of children in pain):
And cases of measles infection in the United States have already doubled since last year.
That’s just the beginning. This post is already too long, but I urge you to go to the CDC’s website and read about recent outbreaks. They are tied to regions where vaccine rates are low.
Final thoughts
Googling and listening to what people tell you over on parenting message boards, “Natural News”, and similar sites is not the same thing as advice from a trained physician. I really believe that the vast majority of parents who are leery of vaccinating their kids are simply confused because they’ve been given bad information.
“We live in a society, and our actions have consequences for others. It’s our responsibility to protect our children and our neighbors’ children. Plus our ancestors could only have dreamed of something that would protect their children from these horrible diseases.”–Mary
Vaccination is not just to protect your own child. It’s also a moral and civic issue. Remember that we are incredibly privileged in our society to have access to vaccines. In many places around the world, people don’t have easy access to them, and there are even some places where aid workers are killed for trying to administer vaccines. Our privilege confers responsibility as well. By vaccinating your children, you are also protecting other children (and adults) who can’t be vaccinated. Here is a really great explanation of this, and the concept of herd immunity.
“I chose to have my first child vaccinated because I paid some attention in science classes and it works. I paid better attention in history classes and have a sense of the suffering various preventable diseases have caused in the past and I didn’t want that for my child. After my first born spent a week in the hospital with an infection, I feel much more strongly about having my second child vaccinated. In that case, it wasn’t something that could have been vaccinated against, but there is no reason and no excuse for subjecting your child to the risk of that kind of suffering over a preventable disease. It’s irresponsible and cruel.”–Eric
Wakefield, McCarthy, Kennedy and other leaders of the movement are deceiving you. They bear responsibility for the deaths of children. That’s why I keep speaking out on this issue.
I hope that I’ve provided you with a starting point from which to do your own research. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask me here, or on twitter, or by email (link at the top of this page), or–even better–ask your physician!
UPDATE: I wrote a tutorial/example of how to critically read a vaccine safety study here. If you wish to do your own research, I suggest that reading the primary, peer-reviewed literature is a vastly better approach than relying on books/Facebook memes/discussion forums. Hopefully the tools you’ll find in that post (and this one) will be helpful.
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Edited to remove Lyme disease from list of vaccine preventable illnesses. There’s a vaccine currently in clinical trials, but it’s not fully tested or available yet. Thanks to “justreadingyourblog” for pointing that out to me.
Violent metaphors 
But Dr. Jenny McCarthy (who does e-cigarette commercials, by the way) needs a reason her son is autistic. The numbers of autistic children is higher now because we now define autism differently than we used to. And the OVERWHELMING number of people considered “autistic” are highly functional, not like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man. The fact is that if you grew up in the 60s or 70s, the weird kid is now the autistic kid. And we are so scare of our kids being weird that we freak out and need a diagnosis. Vaccines aren’t perfect, but overall they work. I work in medical research and I get annoyed at “I got the flu shot and then I got sick”. No, you might have gotten a slight fever and felt run down for a day – because the vaccine is making your immune system scramble as it figures things out – so you get tired for a day, not that uncommon. But here’s the thing………even if these vaccines DID cause autism…(they don’t), but even if they did, you are still better off vaccinating your children.
Vaccinate your kids people. If you love them and want to protect them from harmful disease, get them vaccinated.
It started out with the MMR vaccination and now it seems for some, all or any vaccines are suspected to cause ASD. Which is kind of weird, innit?
Smallpox has had very little mention here. Smallpox wasn’t wiped out because people washed their hands. Smallpox wasn’t the sort of illness you could take medicine to cure it. If you survived it you were severely pock-marked. No, smallpox died out because the majority of the world was vaccinated. The same could happen to polio but I’m not holding my breath because of the numbers who don’t believe the evidence.
It seems that for some people (usually called conspiracy theorists) the facts don’t exist and their opinions are all that matter. Well you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. If you don’t want a vaccination and do want to put your children (and others) at risk, well up to you (if you live in a country where it’s not compulsory). What you cannot do is say you are right, and the majority of the world’s scientists are wrong. Same goes for climate change.
“The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson.
These anti-vaxxers just APPALL me. They know nothing about how terrible these diseases truly were and still are, when they happen. I am only 47, and I can still remember reading about & seeing pictures of polio victims in iron lungs as a kid, and being absolutely terrified by it. And that was in books for children! That’s how common polio victims still were even in the early 70s.
My grandmother was born in 1909, my father in 1926, mom in 1929, aunt in 1935, and sister in 1945. My family was close, and I can remember them all talking about life in an earlier era, before vaccines and even antibiotics. I remember hearing many tales of people dying from “blood poisoning” (sepsis) & “lockjaw” (tetanus); and people who had died, suffered terribly, and/or were crippled by diseases that are easily preventable with a simple vaccine these days. These diseases were not ‘minor’ by any means, nor were they ‘on their way out’ like so many here seem to think. They were common and greatly feared by all, especially those with children.
My older sister was born mentally retarded because my mother had Rubella (“German Measles”) when she was pregnant with her. She is a sweet, childlike elderly woman now, living with my husband & I since out parents have now passed. I have loved her all my life, but sometimes I am saddened, and wonder what she could have become if she had not been robbed of her potential by an ugly, and currently preventable, disease. Do anti-vaxxers think of things like that? That their refusal to vaccinate may result in harm not only to their living children, but to those growing in their womb? Or even worse, that they spread diseases to other innocent pregnant women and their children? My sister is high functioning & can take care of some of her needs, which is not usually the case with children struck by rubella in utero- the results are usually far worse, including miscarriage & stillbirth. Do you REALLY want to be responsible for killing or deforming your own or someone else’s unborn child because you fell for a hoax promoted by an unscrupulous doctor & a B-grade actress?
And do you really think that autism would be a worse fate for your child than severe mental retardation? I know many wonderful autistic children and their loving, caring parents. I helped raise my autistic niece, who, at 18, is a beautiful, smart, studious young woman who graduated early and started college at 17. There were struggles of course, but they were nothing compared to what my mom told me about raising a mentally retarded baby. My niece will be able to have a full life with college, a career, marriage & children if she so desires. My sister never had that chance, and never will. Could I go back in time with a rubella vaccine and prevent my mother from having it, I would do it in a heartbeat, even if she was GUARANTEED to be autistic instead.
I suggest anti-vaxxers start talking to people they know who were around before vaccines were, and learn what it was REALLY like, how horrible & feared they were before they decide not to vaccinate their kids.
And before someone comes yelling that my niece is autistic because she had vaccines, well….her father (my brother) is a long term alcoholic & drug addict, who had testicular cancer of a type that is associated with smoking PCP & the chemical soup it is usually mixed with. What about the meningitis she had as a newborn? Or even the possibility that her father has undiagnosed ASD and passed it along? Any of those could be the reason
As for me, well, I have had pretty bad lifelong asthma, and if I did not get my flu shot every year, I would probably be dead by now. The one year that I didn’t get it, I came down with flu that turned into pneumonia within days. I could not believe how sick I was, and my case was called “mild”. For over four years after that, I suffered one serious long term respiratory infection after another, I was bedridden for weeks at a time. All because the guys at my husbands work refuse to get vaccinated. I’m sure they were well in a fortnight. I suffered for years. I will NEVER miss a flu shot again. I am also vaccinated for pneumonia and pertussis, per my doctor, due to the high risk of complications or death, should I contract either.
The same flu that knocked me down so hard was also, albeit indirectly, was responsible for the death of my elderly mother.
THIS is the reality for what happens when people don’t vaccinate their kids, or themselves.
I do not look forward to the day, when a visit to the United States calls for a regiment of vaccinations. All because of idiocy and the spreading of false knowledge by laymen.
It does not create evidence, just by stating there is EVIDENCE.
One persons experiences does not provide usable evidence and should not be the basis for conclusions for anyone.
I hope you figure this out before USA falls into being a red flagged country.
When some one searches for his required thing, therefore he/she wishes to be
available that in detail, therefore that thing is maintained over here.
Jennifer Raff, I agree with you!
vaccinations are very important as it helps your child to be prevented from diseases in future
Who wrote this pathetic, ignorant article? It is interesting to me that people with the funds to send their children to private school are not vaccinating; they must also have the funds to EDUCATE THEMSELVES instaed of believing all mainstream, biased science pushed down our throats. Now lets watch the sheeple slowly kill their own children through ignorance.
I wrote it. So, your argument against the scientific evidence is that rich people don’t vaccinate their kids? Interesting. How do you account for the fact that virtually all physicians and scientists vaccinate both themselves and their children? Are they just “ignorant”?
That’s not true at all, Jennifer! I’m sorry that people are so misleading, but many doctors don’t vaccinate their own children, whether or not they admit to it. Susan McCreadie (see “My Thoughts on Vaccines”) is just one of many. I could name many other MDs who’ve raised serious questions on vaccines (not sure if they all have children); however, I realize that conveniently each time someone will label a doctor a “quack” solely for opposing vaccines.
“Who wrote this pathetic, ignorant article?”
Did you notice the name under the title at the top of the page? That is a big hint on who wrote the article. There is also a menu at the top of the page that has a link titled “About me.”
I am curious, where are we supposed to get the proper education on the science? Please point to us where the sources of science that you think are not “biased.”
“Now lets watch the sheeple slowly kill their own children through ignorance.”
Please provide the scientific evidence that any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is more dangerous than the disease. Make sure that science is not biased by posting the actual scientific paper written by a qualified reputable author. Thank you.
People who say sheeple are so kind to let us all know they are blind followers of the crowd
Do you have any video of that? I’d want to find out more details.
In a study of 1.2 million children, no link between autism and vaccines was found. Science is true whether you believe in it or not.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X14006367
Given that numbers of children are rising to statistically significant levels it would be possible to perform a reverse study on the incidence of Autism spectrum disorders, disorders as a result of viral infection & other important markers in those children that have not been vaccinated – if we could persuade them to participate this will end the reasonable discussion on the matter (leaving the unreasonable nutters sticking magic berries up their noses).
Can the vaccine conspiracy theorists please post the following:
Which of the following are facts:
1) Man-made climate change does not exist?
2) The universe or earth is less than 1,000,000 years old
3) Any of the following:
a) Man never landed on the moon
b) The JFK assassination was an inside job
c) The Illuminati exists and the theories are true
4) Vaccinations are deadly, it is being covered up by big pharma
5) Fluoride added to drinking water by water-corporations is deadly
If you answer yes to 3 or more of those questions, I would suggest that you are an ignorant twit and you should just consider that the world would be better off without your ridiculous campaigns
I was vaccinated my entire childhood, and even into adulthood. Nothing happened to me. Although I have a few psychological disorders, like depression and anxiety, those did not come about until my teenage/beginning adult years.
I’m in the process of moving to another state and was amazed to find out that the community college I’m going to actually REQUIRES proof of a negative meningitis test. The anti vaxxers campaign is causing an increase in the outbreaks of meningitis on college campuses to the point that some states are REQUIRING proof that you have not had it. In fact, the colleges in the state that I’m moving to, REQUIRE up-to-date vaccination records or you will NOT be permitted to attend class. I’m willing to bet that policies like that have reduced the amount of outbreaks in that state.
If anti-vaxxer parents make choices that put their children at risk, then maybe they shouldn’t permitted to be parents. Because their choices, made for THEIR kids, affect EVERYONE around them.
Uh no.. College campuses have always done this. I went in the 90’s and had to get vax’d and also had to have ‘proof’ I did not have lots of things.. Including std’s!!! Talk about intrusive… But my education was important so I did it and guess what… The MMR vax’d totally fu*ked me up. Took me years to get back to normal…. AND my beautiful son I now have.., has autism.. Makes you wonder.
“The MMR vax’d totally fu*ked me up. Took me years to get back to normal”
What did your medical care providers tell you? Since it was after 1988 did your claim with National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program go well?
“…. AND my beautiful son I now have.., has autism.. Makes you wonder.”
Well I wonder why nothing was noticed in the 1970s and 1980s since the MMR vaccine was introduced in 1971. Do you know of any documentation dated before 1990 that shows the MMR caused autism in the USA during that time? It is a much larger country than the UK, and had been using the MMR vaccine for more than twenty years when Wakefield published his now retracted small case study, so there should be something if there was a real connection.
So it does make me wonder why there would be an assumed connection, when there is not real evidence. This includes a more recent study showing that there is no real connection between vaccines and autism.
Um… no, it doesn’t. Isolated cases prove nothing. At most they raise a question. This question has been raised over and over. It has been answered by studies containing more than fourteen million cases. I am truly sorry to hear that your son has autism and I hope that he is being properly supported so that he can lead a full and healthy life. I also understand your won frustration and the desire to identify a cause but I am afraid that the MMR has repeatedly been proven not to be that cause. The sooner that we can all draw a line under this and do away with the conspiracy theories and blame culture the sooner we can get on with protecting our children.
Kat, I am so sorry about your son. Have you looked into detox and biomedical options? Look at livingwhole.org or gianelloni family blog (she is NOT a practicing professional in this, for those concerned; she provides links to many professional sources). Regarding Caroline (blog) may be another good resource. I really believe that healing the gut is key. The gut-brain connection is a fascinating one.
This is awesome.
Wonderful. Thank you for writing this.
I just have two questions
Does some one knows an unvaccinated child who is autistic? That can give us a good answer
And why parents of a vaccinated child cares about other kids who are not, your child is safe don’t worry!
I don’t pay hundreds of dollars to pub med… i pay thousands to my university and am blessed with the right to access the thousands of scholarly online journals such as pubmed… which my institution pays millions for…..
ohh.. and what about all of the doctors and nurses and immunologists etc that are against vaccines??
I suppose they are just too dumb and looking to start controversy, despite their stellar academic credentials…. yes they are purposely ignoring an “obvious” truth simply to get harassed by all you donkeys who blindly believe that vaccines are “safe and effective”…
It’s hard to communicate with people who are clearly so biased…. My parents were for vaccines, they still are… neither of them are scientists…. I took a biomedical science degree and found many PEER REVIEWED studies questioning both the saftey and efficacy of vaccines.
To be sure, these studies are not the MAJORITY.. However as Einstein, Copernicus, Galileo and other brave scientists have unequivically shown… MAJORITY does not mean they are right… In fact, it an an age old fallacy that to assume because a majority of people support or believe something, it is therefore correct… Aritstotle so aptly pointed that obvious fact out… He’s be sad to see how stupid the average person is…
The majority of doctors used to say cigarettes were safe and EFFECTIVE as treatment for some ailments hahahahha… but no… had nothing to do with industry funding… and all the drugs and vaccines… nope has nothing to to do with industry funding… clearly everyone is much HEALTHIER today thanks to all the drugs!!
And to the idiots who keep pointing out how many people died of polio in 1952…. ok that’s a number…. did you look at how many people died in the 40′s from it? the 30′s?
IF you were responsible in your research and unbiased… you would want to look at a time series… which I have…. Polio mortality and morbidity rates fell dramatically in the preceeding 20 years BEFORE the vaccine was introduced….. so what caused that??
Ever hear of Scarlett fever?? no vaccine for it in this country…. but it also went from very high rates in the early part of teh century to essentially 0…. but there was no vaccine…. Some countries who used the scarlet fever vaccine had the same TREND..
You people really are stupid…. and you want what? to try and force people or shame them who know the shit you are talking is just that??
go get you kid injected….. has *nothing* to do with the raise in neuroligcal and other chronic conditions plaging society…. funny though… since you all like correlational data soo much…. seems like more cancer, diabetes, asthma.etc… the more vaccines we “give” to people…
Ohh peer reviewed research from the University of British Columbia from their neuroscience department has indicated the potential mechanisms by which certain vaccine adjuvants and ingredients may contribute to autism in CERTAIN people….
BUt no…. A vaccine containing mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum etc…. that could have no effect on someones nervous systems or other systems…. no the anti vaccineers are crazzzzzzzzy
Show me one bit of evidence that shows vaccines cannot cause autism… doesn’t exist… the best you have is some studies saying they found no connection….
that doesn’t mean there isn’t one you fools…. it means what it says… that study found no connection…. its not about doing the same study over.. different methodologies lead to different results… MANY studies and methodologically flawed and are INVALID ni the scientific sense that they do not measure what they are purported to measure…
For instance… Autism is a spectrum disorder…has anybody read the criteria used in the different studies for what they count as “autsism”?
Also, as one poster wisely pointed out… even the government admits that nowhere near the TRue number of adverse events are reported…
Also… many adverse events take TIME to occur… as the wise poster shrewdly pointed out.. these residues build up in the body… everyone reacts differently to toxins and in different time frames… but once a reaction is moved in time from a vaccine, the connection is missed…. despite the fact it may very well have been a major contributor…
FINALLY… Does anybody do a neuroloigcal assessment of your child BEFORE the vaccine?? And there AFTER the vaccine at certain periods to evaluate whether any damage occured?? fuck no lol…. the nurses don’t do it and wouldn’t be qualified anyone… a neurologist would be the one…. doesn’t happen…. so just remember… not all reactions are “clinical” meaning they result in some horrific immediate measurable outcome….. so you could get a shot and your neurons could degenerate slightly causing maybe loss in concentration, focus, IQ perhaps… but it’s minimal… cant diagnose it… let alone connect it to the shot..
I find it much wiser to listen to the minority of professionals who REFUSE the vaccines and their REASONS WHY….you could line up 99.9% of any profession… i still want to hear the .1% that is on the other side….
So here’s a link to a doctor, infectious disease specialist… WHO ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to SHOOT UP HIMSELF OR HIS KIDS>… HE’s being interviewed and is asked why…He clearly states that particular shot (h1n1) is simply too dangerous and not shown to be safe or effective….
but I guess since he on fox news.. can’t be trusted… damn right wing doctor lying to everyone
Fox News – Doctor says H1N1 vaccine is dangerous, toxic ‘adjuncts’ used, product rushed to market
ohh heres another doctor advising against it… ohhh because he read the insert.. hahahhaha
Dr. Roby Mitchell, M.D. (www.drfitt.com) issues a retraction to nurses he originally advised to get the H1N1 flu vaccination.
hmmmm infectious disease expert doctor warns shot is dangerous vs. Paul (for profit) Offit… head of CDC vaccine policy who famously said you could give a child 10 000 vaccines (in one day!!) and be fine…. hahahhahaha
ohh and he has patents for several vaccines and has made 10s of millions…..
but nope…. he just doin it for your safety!!!!
stupid fucking idiots
“Show me one bit of evidence that shows vaccines cannot cause autism… doesn’t exist… the best you have is some studies saying they found no connection….”
Small question: How else do you show vaccines don’t cause autism?
Truly the best comment here. You have got to be brainwashed to shoot a bunch of unnatural crap into a kid.
Really? It started out with “I don’t pay hundreds of dollars to pub med”…. news flash, you don’t have to spend a dime to access this index. The rest sounds like something written after a some dosing with ethanol.
“You have got to be brainwashed to shoot a bunch of unnatural crap into a kid.”
So why is it better to put natural stuff like tetanospasmin, rubeola, or other pathogen in a kid than preventing the symptoms with a vaccine? Some other natural things are ricin, belladona, and foxglove are very natural… just don’t give them to a child. Just post the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is more dangerous than the disease.
We went to the internet and searched for Roofing Salt Lake City.
Natural slates are assumed easier to handle just because
of the characteristics that it does not stains, non porous, non slip,
no sealer and easier to clean as well. Other than rain,
powerful winds are also fairly typical in the early spring.
#LOVE
That is the only command.
All men’s blood has crossed and we are brothers. All
women are sisters who over thousands of years have covered the globe and now reach
beyond the clouds. From the palest skin to the darkest, all are one.
Do for others as you would have them do for you and you will find happiness.
#MuchLove
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You got one problem here. NONE of the sources cited has any credibility.
Does big pharma lie? Yes. They are into money not making people well.
Does the government lie? Yes, more than they tell the truth.
Can you trust them? No.
Would they admit vaccinations did indeed cause autism? No.
Why are there TV commercials doing dragnet style blanket inquiries for people who have claims against major drug companies? Because that many people have had that many severe issues. People as a whole are becoming suspicious of the medical establishment for good reason. Not only do they sell poison as medicine but then they have to be sued for reparations, it’s not like they admit anything & help their victims voluntarily.
Why not share the data from: … http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Activities/vsd/accessing-data.html … with everyone regarding vaccines? Statistics can be easily loaded contextually, why not let some other people evaluate & interpret the data?
I have yet to see anything more than claims of these studies aforementioned. Lets see real data, raw data, not their self serving interpretation. Not their claims of conclusive findings. Their word is not enough.
CDC Caught Hiding Data Showing Mercury in Vaccines Linked to Autism | Health Impact News healthimpactnews.com In a press release issued recently, one that almost no mainstream media sources have bothered to report, it was…
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/
Why should we believe you? That is not a reliable unbiased website. Its “About” page shows it is run by:
Brian Shilhavy, CEO Tropical Traditions
Marianita Shilhavy, Certified Nutritionist/Dietician in the Philippines
This is a major reason why you need to be careful with Google U. They seem to be in the business of selling coconut oil and other supplements. Are you a Supplement Shill?
Also, can you please tell us which vaccines on the present American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Do not include influenza because half of those approved for children half are thimerosal free.
About your first comment:
Please the sources in the above article that are paid by “Big Pharma”, please provide a direct quote from the source to shows its dubious nature.
Please be specific on those “government lies”, with actual academic cites to show exactly which vaccine information provided lacks veracity.
Please provide PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that vaccines have a casual link to autism. By reputable we mean someone who has not had their right to practice medicine legally revoked (Geier, Wakefield). By qualified someone needs to actually have the requisite education and experience, so no lawyers, business professors, geologists, journalists, computer scientists, etc.
And then you can list the reasons why each of the following studies are not true: Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence. Be sure to be specific with references, and have direct quotes of the dubious bits (like Conflict of Interest). Back up your assertions with real evidence, please.
All valid points. However I remain of the opinion that: The FDA, CDC, AMA, ect are not in place for the protection of the populace but to further their own economical interests.
I do believe the burden of proof lies with the producer of the product they want to have injected into people. That is a real concern. While words are cheap the products that are being sold to us are of real consequence. My questions are not ratified by scientific documents, but I’m not selling you something that goes in your body either. While you are basically right to ask all the questions you do, the issue of vaccines is not resolved by them.
Which government agencies lie? While the answer is a bit vague it appears self evident to me that lying is pervasive & a common practice in Washington.
I would ask that your standards of reference be applied to the claimant regarding the safety of their vaccine.
Part of the issue at hand is that what you or I find as information from a good source is not of value if the other doesn’t agree with the credibility.
It seems obvious that bad or dangerous mediation is placed on the market quite often. Am I wrong? The overall skepticism I perceive to exist is warranted.
“However I remain of the opinion that: The FDA, CDC, AMA, ect are not in place for the protection of the populace but to further their own economical interests.”
Why should we care about your “opinion” on any scientific subject? The issues on vaccines are scientific, and now that you mention it some are economic. Your “opinions” are worthless unless backed up by real data.
First what regulatory responsibility is held by the American Medial Association, which is a large private professional organization supported by very high fees required of its members (not every MD belongs)?
Second what kind of economic interests are their for a federal regulatory agency (FDA) and public health agency (CDC)? Be specific.
And third, explain how the economics of the recommended vaccine schedule is detrimental to the public. Provide actual verifiable studies to support your statements. Here is an example of an valid economic study of a vaccine schedule: Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009. If you find errors or reason to doubt that paper, please explain them carefully with supporting documents from qualified authors (no coconut oil sellers).
“Am I wrong? The overall skepticism I perceive to exist is warranted.”
We can’t tell because you provide no evidence to back up your statements. Until then we will be skeptical of your claims.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2014/02/22/is-the-cdc-hiding-data-about-mercury-vaccines-and-autism/
Wrong again.. Your insistence on backing your opinion with fake “news” stories is both sad and rather childish. Yet again the U of Google proves that you’ll stop where your opinion ends.. Facts are lost on you.. I bet you even post The Onion articles when they agree with your opinion too!!
I should add that I don’t think all vaccines are bad. Some are the better choice over the risk of not. I do however believe cause for concern & the lack of trust is with merit.
follow the money … >> http://vactruth.com/2012/01/09/document-shows-merck-paid-doctors/
paul offit (the pro vaccine go-to guy) has a patented vaccine so he has financial reasons to peddle his bullshit … >>>http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/offit-congressional-reprimand/
what’s wrong with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program? ..>>http://www.ebcala.org/unanswered-questions/vaccine-epidemic
The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act acknowledges that vaccine injury or death may be “unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and accompanied by proper directions and warnings.” 42 U.S.C. 300aa-22(b)(1). The “unavoidable” language in the Act is from the Restatement (Second) of Torts that applies to “products which, in the present state of human knowledge, are quite incapable of being made safe.” Restatement (Second) of Torts Section 402A, comment k (1965).
How much do drug manufacturers pay doctors who speak positively about their products?…>>> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703712504576233032397911512
Vaccine supporters say vaccinations are the reason most diseases have been eradicated? but is this true.. >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/104031930/DI-Ch15-the-Amazing-Decline
The Supreme Court declared vaccines to be “Unavoidably Unsafe” .. >>http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf
Vaccines are all about money >>> http://over-vaccination.net/
Who says there is no money is vaccines .. >>> http://vactruth.com/2012/11/30/2011-billions-vaccine-manufacturers/
Doctors against vaccines : Dr. Sherri J. Tenpenny, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Dr. Suzanne Humphries, Dr. Garth Nicholson, Dr. Richard Moskowitz.
and if something goes wrong, vaccine makers (and doctors) have legal immunity from prosecution..>>> http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2011/0222/Parents-can-t-sue-drug-firms-when-vaccines-cause-harm-Supreme-Court-says
.
.>>http://www.nvic.org/nvic-vaccine-news/march-2011/no-pharma-liability–no-vaccine-mandates-.aspx
A history of smallpox and the first vaccine . . >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/99366449/05-Smallpox-and-the-First-Vaccine
what doctors really know about vaccines. . >> http://vactruth.com/2012/07/31/what-your-doctors-know/
financial incentive for doctors to fully vaccinate. .>> http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/vaccines/do-doctors-have-financial-incentive-get-their-patients-fully-vaccinated
collection of quotes from doctors about vaccines. . >> http://www.vaccinesuncensored.org/doctors.php
herd immunity myth.. fear mongering to force vaccination.. >> http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/
great must watch documentary on vaccines . . >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsVTlMsQrI
big pharma in same bed with CDC. . >> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/02/merck-flu-vaccine-conflicts.aspx
doctors bribed to speak positive of drug companies . . >> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/02/bribery-affects-vaccination-rates.aspx
how pediatricians are trained to answer vaccine questions like salespeople. . >> http://www2.aap.org/immunization/pediatricians/communicating.html
is it really about the money?…>> http://vaxtruth.org/2011/09/how-can-it-be-about-the-money-immunizations-are-free-right/
doctor explains his reason for being anti-vaccine .. >> http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/
“follow the money”
Jeremy, are you seriously trying to explain to us that letting every kid get measles is cheaper than preventing it? Even though about one in ten who gets measles needs hospital treatment.
So instead of this rather less than original link bombing of dubious links, I have an idea. It would be something, new, novel and totally radical for you: actually read the article you posted your link heavy comment on.
First you can try the title, and notice that it exactly opposite of what you just did. Then work your way through the entire article. Try it with an open mind.
Then please explain very carefully and with real verifiable scientific and economic data from actual reputable folks who know what they are doing why it would be cost effective to toss out the entire vaccine schedule, and just let everyone get measles, mumps, rubella, polio, pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, Hib, hepatitis, etc.
Essentially you have to intelligently prove that the following economic analysis is wrong:
Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009
Just for your information: the use of multiple random links and insults is not a way to provide an intelligent response.
vaccine induced developmental delay. . >> http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/October-2011-(1)/Video—Pertussis-Vaccine-Reaction-Leads-to-Develo.aspx
if vaccines are so safe , why has the government paid up to $2 billion to families of vaccine related injured or dead relatives . . http://www.vacfacts.info/national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program—payout-data.html
Unanswered Questions from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program: A Review of Compensated Cases of Vaccine-Induced Brain Injury. . >> http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr
more info on the vaccine injury compensation program . . >>
http://www.nvic.org/injury-compensation.aspx
1 in 50 schoolchildren now have autism, yet they claim no link with vaccines ,yeah right. . >> http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/cdc-now-admits-1-in-50-school-children-with-autism-time-to-stop-ignoring-the-vaccine-connection/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/27/vaccines-are-dangerous-says-the-government.aspx
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CDC caught lying about vaccine research . . >> http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cover-up-scandal-cdcs-vaccine-research-exposed-as-flawed-and-falsified/
Why would we care about the opinions of an underemployed bioengineer who is a vaccine court litigant on a site run by a coconut oil seller? Seriously, if you are going to accuse an entire government department of lying, you need to bring in some real data.
Newsflash: The CDC is not the only public health agency on this planet. This list, Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence, contains research from some of those others. You might try checking it out.
Again, posting random links is not equivalent to a verifiable scientific and/or economic documentation. You really need to read the above article by Dr. Raff.
And you might this article too:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2014/02/22/is-the-cdc-hiding-data-about-mercury-vaccines-and-autism/
I am sorry, but that does not answer my question. Even though I have a child who suffered seizures from an actual disease before a vaccine to prevent was available and is permanently disabled, I will not ask you for the PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers showing the DTaP vaccine is more dangerous than diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.
Nor will I point out that the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has only compensated only a small fraction out of the billions of vaccine doses given since 2006, and even 1988 when the program first started.
What I am going to do is ask you for the economic analysis that shows an ounce of prevention is not worth a pound of cure. Please try again to answer the question I actually asked you:
And again, posting a Gish Gallop of links and not actually answering the given question is not an intelligent response. Please try again. Perhaps you can start by actually reading the above article.
so the CDC admitting to lying about their research which affects children’s lives is not enough for you ? i can’t help you man. . here watch this ..>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s49xpHl3hWI
sorry man i guess there will never be an agreement . . let’s just agree to disagree, i will never vaccinate my kids. . just leave it at that. . “what if they die. . ” yea yea, im more afraid of vaccines.
How can there be an agreement when you cannot respond with any kind of real data? I don’t care if you do or don’t vaccinated your children, I only care about the lack of real evidence and data in your responses.
ThinkTwice and Mr. Neil Z. Miller are not qualified researchers, and videos are not PubMed indexed studies. Also the video has a disclaimer a few seconds in that it should not be considered legal or medical advice. All you have demonstrated is that you rely too much on believing what you read at the University of Google, possibly because you have not read one word on this page written by Dr. Raff.
Again, you made a financial claim about vaccines, “follow the money.” I just want you to provide actual economic data that it is better to let kids get sick, which will often require hospital care, than to prevent diseases. Why will you not do that? Why will you not explain with actual verifiable documentation why it is better for kids to get measles and pertussis than to prevent those diseases? I know from personal experience that ambulance rides and hospital stays are not fun for kids.
I noticed at least one of your links was to Mercola. Perhaps you should also “follow the money” and click on this picture.