“A cousin of my mom’s survived Polio and lived the rest of his life with its effects. He was not expected to live past his teens but made it to his 40s. I am grateful that modern science can protect us from Polio and other diseases and I choose to take advantage of modern science to give my kid better odds of not dying from a preventable disease. I had heard a lot of noise from people claiming vaccines caused Autism, but never saw any clear evidence. It just seemed to me like people really wanted to point to something as the cause and they latched onto vaccines.”–Jennifer
I have been getting into a lot of discussions about whether vaccines are safe in the last few days. I’m not sure if it’s because of a post going viral about a (terrible) Italian court ruling last year (In contrast, American courts side with doctors and scientists on vaccine safety) or Jenny McCarthy’s recent hiring as co-host on “The View”, or simply (as a friend suggested to me today) the fact that a new school year is starting soon and parents are having to provide vaccination records to schools.
“(I got my children vaccinated) because the science supports it and I don’t want my kids to die. And civic reasons. It’s so straightforward.”–Britta
Whatever the reason, this week I’ve been in many conversations with individuals staunchly against vaccinations, parents who are very upset at the idea of unvaccinated children putting their own kids at risk, and parents who are confused and worried and want to know how to make the best decision possible for their children’s safety. I’m writing this for the third group of parents.
What’s going on?
There has been a very steep decrease in the rate of vaccinations recently, particularly (but I want to stress not only) within communities of affluent, well-educated parents. [UPDATE: Keep in mind that there’s considerable diversity among anti-vaccine proponents. A conservative religious community here in Texas, opposed to vaccines because “faith should be enough”, is currently experiencing an outbreak of measles].
“It’s that whole natural, BPA-free, hybrid car community that says ‘we’re not going to put chemicals in our children,’” Shapiro told Salon. “It’s that same idea: ‘I’m going to be pure and I want to keep my child pure.’”
California law mandates that all students get vaccinated, but it also makes it easy to get exemptions for personal beliefs. And parents in tony places like Marin County are taking advantage of it in seemingly growing numbers. One public elementary school in Malibu, an affluent beach town just north of Los Angeles, reported that only 58 percent of their students are immunized — well below the recommended 90-plus percent level — according to Shapiro.
And it’s even worse in some of L.A.’s private schools, where as few as 20 percent of kids are vaccinated in some schools. “Yes, that’s right: Parents are willingly paying up to $25,000 a year to schools at which fewer than 1 in 5 kindergartners has been immunized against the pathogens causing such life-threatening illnesses as measles, polio, meningitis and pertussis (more commonly known as whooping cough),” she wrote. –from http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/ (Emphasis mine)
This is particularly frustrating when there is overwhelming evidence that vaccinations DO NOT cause autism. As the wonderful blog Science Based Medicine puts it:
“At this point, the evidence is so utterly overwhelming that there is not a whiff of a hint of a whisper of a correlation between vaccines and autism that it has become irritating that antivaccine activists keep pressuring scientists to do the same study over and over again, coming up with the same results over and over again, and then seeing antivaccinationists fail to believe those same results over and over again. Apparently, antivaccine activists think that if the same sorts of studies are done enough times, there will be a positive result implicating vaccines as a risk factor for or contributing cause to autism.”
Why are parents choosing not to vaccinate their children?
I think there are several reasons, but they all may have some connection to misunderstanding of what the scientific evidence on this issue is, or resistance to perceived authority. In Western cultures, we’re accustomed to framing every public issue as two-sided. People who refuse to acknowledge that there’s legitimacy to the other side are “unfair.” I think this viewpoint is really muddling the vaccine safety conversation. When the media presents scientists on one side, and Natural News on the other, it’s creating a false equivalency. The anti-vaxxers have no credible scientific evidence supporting their position, but placing them opposite a scientist makes it seem like there are two legitimate sides to this debate. There aren’t. The simple fact is that there’s overwhelming scientific consensus that the MMR vaccine doesn’t cause autism.
“I unapolagetically vaccinate my kid, and it’s not just because that’s what you do, it’s because I really looked at what the science said and made a decision based on facts, evidence, and rational weighing of risk-benefit. I think the problem is that it’s easier to feel off the hook for risking your kids via inaction rather than action. But realistically, the risks of vaccination are so much less than the risks of what could happen if your child does get a vaccine-preventable disease, and you are also protecting those who *can’t* be vaccinated. That’s why I get a flu shot. Not because I am going to die of the flu, but to protect the elderly, infants, and immunocompromised folks I might come into contact with.” –Melissa (emphasis mine)
Do vaccines work?
Yes. Here are some of the diseases prevented with vaccinations:
from “Demographics of Unvaccinated Chidren”, National Network for Immunization Information.
Do vaccines cause autism?
No. As a starting point for you, here’s a roundup of trustworthy scientific resources for you to read on your own (everything is peer-reviewed, or contains links to peer-reviewed articles):
Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25349/
Vaccine Safety studies (a bunch of studies, with notes about what they mean): http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf
Concerns about vaccine safety (this is really great, and written in layman’s language) http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-safety/concerns-about-vaccine-safety
How do we know that scientists and doctors are right?
I’ve been asked about this quite a bit lately. One person asked me “why aren’t we getting peered reviewed research from other points of view?” The reason is quite simple: there isn’t any.
Scientific research works like this:
You start with the specific questions “Does the MMR vaccine cause autism?”, “Does the MMR vaccine increase the risk of inflammatory bowel disease?” and so forth. You then design a study to test that question. It’s not starting from one “side” or the other, trying to seek proof for it. That’s the way politics works, not science. When you get an answer, it’s either “yes” or “no” (actually it tends to be “there is a statistically significant association between this drug and this disease” or “there is NOT a statistically significant association between this drug and this disease.”) Your results are submitted to experts for peer review. These experts then go over your results and methods with a fine-toothed comb, trying to find weaknesses in your approach, or over-interpretation of the results. They evaluate your statistics to make sure that they’re correct. If they decide that it’s acceptable (and this is usually a very hard test to pass), your paper gets published and is considered “peer-reviewed.” But that’s not the end.
Studies are then done by other research groups to both test and build upon your results. While the initial screen by peer reviewers is very stringent, it doesn’t always catch mistakes, and can miss identifying faked data (for example, Andrew Wakefield’s paper got past peer review because the reviewers didn’t catch that his data were fraudulent). However, all scientific research is iterative–that is, it builds upon a foundation created by other research. So if your results are wrong, or faked, it will quickly become obvious to other researchers who try to replicate or use them. Scientific consensus is VERY hard to achieve. So when it happens, pay attention.
Why do I (and others) keep harping on “peer-reviewed” studies? Why do I (and others) refuse to acknowledge the truth of what X blogger says?
Science operates based on the philosophy that the truth is knowable if we design experiments correctly, and we do enough of them to rigorously test our hypotheses. And I hope that you know by now that anyone with a keyboard can make stuff up. Peer review is how we test that someone isn’t making things up. Experts in your field have to agree with your conclusions.
But what about Andrew Wakefield’s research?
“I got my son vaccinated after doing research about it. I had been going through birthing classes that were against it, but the scientist in me questioned what they were saying. I found the info about the falsified info about autism. I still couldn’t believe (and still can’t) that parents would hold chicken pox parties. I’d had chicken pox as a kid, and I know about shingles. It just made sense to me.”–Charity
Andrew Wakefield faked his data for profit. His medical license has been revoked as a consequence. It’s important that people know that the the link between vaccines/autism is based on an outright lie–most of the other authors on the paper have removed their names from it. You can read more about this story here:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/14/andrew-wakefield-great-science-fraud/
What are the consequences of not vaccinating your children?
“We chose to vaccinate Vera on a regular schedule, and to be honest I did not do extensive research. I read enough to know that the studies showing an autism link were bad science and I found a pediatrician I really trusted and talked to her about it. I also really do believe that those of us with healthy kids should vaccinate to protect children who have compromised immune systems.”–Faye
Harm to your child:
Penn and Teller illustrate this beautifully (if profanely: language NSFW)
To put it simply, your child is at risk of contracting a preventable disease.
What happens in the absence of our vaccination program? Read about it here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm
Harm to other children:
“Unvaccinated children are concentrated in particular states, increasing the risk of transmitting vaccine-preventable diseases to other unvaccinated children, undervaccinated children and fully vaccinated children.” http://www.immunizationinfo.org/science/demographics-unvaccinated-children
One person with whom I was discussing this issue (he has not vaccinated his kids, but does homeschool them) put forth a hypothesis:
“but if you are correct, i guess in the near future the progressive states will have noticeable outbreaks (and not just the ones you read about), ones that touch somebody you know, as more and more hippy parents stop vaccinating their kids. stay clear of the pacific northwest or perish. ahaha. nah, we are growing super strong natural kids for the future here, and not ones reliant on medicines from a lab. we are sprouting wings and soon we shall fly to furthest regions of the universe and beyond”
I agree with that hypothesis. Unlike the rest of his comment, it’s quite scientific. IF vaccines are protective, and IF parents are choosing not to vaccinate, we should be seeing outbreaks of those diseases in states where the rate of non-vaccination is highest.
This is indeed the case. Here are two examples:
Incidents of whooping cough (pertussis) are significantly higher in states that easily allow parents exceptions from the vaccination. In Washington state alone, there was a 1,300% increase in cases.
Have you ever taken care of a child with pertussis? I have. This is what it’s like (warning: video of children in pain):
And cases of measles infection in the United States have already doubled since last year.
That’s just the beginning. This post is already too long, but I urge you to go to the CDC’s website and read about recent outbreaks. They are tied to regions where vaccine rates are low.
Final thoughts
Googling and listening to what people tell you over on parenting message boards, “Natural News”, and similar sites is not the same thing as advice from a trained physician. I really believe that the vast majority of parents who are leery of vaccinating their kids are simply confused because they’ve been given bad information.
“We live in a society, and our actions have consequences for others. It’s our responsibility to protect our children and our neighbors’ children. Plus our ancestors could only have dreamed of something that would protect their children from these horrible diseases.”–Mary
Vaccination is not just to protect your own child. It’s also a moral and civic issue. Remember that we are incredibly privileged in our society to have access to vaccines. In many places around the world, people don’t have easy access to them, and there are even some places where aid workers are killed for trying to administer vaccines. Our privilege confers responsibility as well. By vaccinating your children, you are also protecting other children (and adults) who can’t be vaccinated. Here is a really great explanation of this, and the concept of herd immunity.
“I chose to have my first child vaccinated because I paid some attention in science classes and it works. I paid better attention in history classes and have a sense of the suffering various preventable diseases have caused in the past and I didn’t want that for my child. After my first born spent a week in the hospital with an infection, I feel much more strongly about having my second child vaccinated. In that case, it wasn’t something that could have been vaccinated against, but there is no reason and no excuse for subjecting your child to the risk of that kind of suffering over a preventable disease. It’s irresponsible and cruel.”–Eric
Wakefield, McCarthy, Kennedy and other leaders of the movement are deceiving you. They bear responsibility for the deaths of children. That’s why I keep speaking out on this issue.
I hope that I’ve provided you with a starting point from which to do your own research. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask me here, or on twitter, or by email (link at the top of this page), or–even better–ask your physician!
UPDATE: I wrote a tutorial/example of how to critically read a vaccine safety study here. If you wish to do your own research, I suggest that reading the primary, peer-reviewed literature is a vastly better approach than relying on books/Facebook memes/discussion forums. Hopefully the tools you’ll find in that post (and this one) will be helpful.
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Edited to remove Lyme disease from list of vaccine preventable illnesses. There’s a vaccine currently in clinical trials, but it’s not fully tested or available yet. Thanks to “justreadingyourblog” for pointing that out to me.
Violent metaphors 
I just completed reading your “How to read and understand a scientific paper: a guide for non-scientists” and I’d like to point you the references you cite in here are to panels and discussions (opinions) regarding vaccine safety — not scientific papers.
Don’t think you’ll find much reassuring information regarding the certification of polio vaccines being ‘clean’ of SV-40. If you happen to run across the literature validating this, please send it my way. Thanks.
Take a closer look at the links I posted. There are many, many primary research papers for you to read there.
Typhoid and Scarlet fever were eradicated never using a vaccine. influenza and the measles were 90% under control before a vaccine was introduced into American society. the same patterns follow many infectious diseases that find it hard to infect a person when their immune system is strong. Mumps effect such a small amount of people that youd have to ask yourself whether it would be worth it to fill your body with much deadlier things just to combat it. If you really look into the history of polio youd understand that it also is much less of a threat than youve been told. and for those that vaccinate their children and are upset at families that don’t vaccinate, don’t worry, by your way of thinking your child is safe because they’ve been vaccinated. On top of all that, I refuse to trust a medical industry that lobbies for further deregulation even after several admitted mistakes in fast tracking while looking at vaccines as more of a product to sell consumers. Furthermore, their denials of any connection between vaccines and autism sounds exactly like tobacco industries told us that smoking doesn’t cause death. We need to evolve our thinking to evolve our species.
I feel sorry for you. Most people take time to know the truth.
You don’t need to feel sorry for me! What truth are you talking about?
Glad you asked, the truth about how the Rockefellers and other rich elites have been in control of the medical industry and Big Pharmaceutical companies for at least 100 years, the truth about how theyve manipulated doctors through the medical journals and books that are used in medical schools to perpetuate the use of deadly medicines. The truth about how the Big Pharma companies have CEOs that have been government representatives and senators and vice versa. The truth about how 100,000 people die a year from prescription drugs(one every 5 mins) and millions more injured by American doctors that think they know what is best. The truth behind why they don’t teach doctors about proper nutrition(see scurvy). The truth about how its impossible to sue these companies. I really could go on and on. It shouldn’t make you mad that people think they know as much as doctors by googling, it should scare the hell out of you that they do.
So Jennifer writes a 2500 word, well thought out, well articulated article on the subject matter and this is the best nonsensical criticism you can come up with?
I’m not saying I think vaccines cause autisim, but this quote “Andrew Wakefield faked his data for profit” is pretty comical. Surely no one in the vaccine-making business is profting off fear mongering…
The evidence is pretty clear that Wakefield owned enough interest in the company in the UK that made/sold the single vaccine measles vaccination (as compared to the combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines) that if the triple vaccine fell out of favor and people got the separate vaccines, he, Wakefield, would be a VERY rich man. That’s where the profit would have been. The companies developing and making the vaccines don’t make a lot of corporate profit on them (many companies find the profit so inadequate that they go out of that business and devote themselves to making drugs with a better profit margin for themselves and their stockholders), but an individual able to tap the profits from administration of a given immunization that was to be given to almost every child in the UK could make a lot of money, indeed. So, Wakefield was apparently in it for the money — and if he wasn’t, he very effectively hid that LACK of greed from the investigators present at the time when the discovery of his publication based on falsified data occurred.
Here’s a brief summary of research on this subject from the site of the American Academy of Pediatrics: http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/autismwakefield.html References and some links to some of the papers cited are at the end of the article.
And here’s a quote from a report commissioned by the Institute of Medicine in the National Institutes of Health which is part of the US Department of Health and Human Services:
Causality Argument
Studies examining the association between MMR and autism (see Table 10), including nine controlled observational studies (DeStefano et al., 2004; DeWilde et al., 2001; Farrington et al., 2001; Fombonne and Chakrabarti, 2001; Madsen et al., 2002; Makela et al., 2002; Takahashi et al., 2003; Taylor et al., 1999, 2002), three ecological studies (Dales et al., 2001; Gillberg and Heijbel, 1998; Kaye et al., 2001), and two studies based on a passive reporting system in Finland (Patja et al., 2000; Peltola et al., 1998), consistently showed no association. Two studies reported findings of a positive association between MMR and autism. The first was an ecological study (Geier and Geier, 2004a) that reported a potential positive correlation between the number of doses of measles-containing vaccine and the cases with autism reported to the special education system in the 1980s. The second was a study using passive reporting data by the same authors (Geier and Geier, 2003c) that reported a positive correlation between autism reports in the VAERS and estimated administered doses of MMR. However, these two studies are characterized by serious methodological flaws and their analytic methods were nontransparent, making their results uninterpretable, and therefore noncontributory with respect to causality (see text for full discussion). The case-series study by Wakefield and colleagues (1998), which originally raised the hypothesis linking MMR and autism, is uninformative with respect to causality and subsequent studies have not been able to replicate or prove this hypothesis. Based on this body of evidence, the committee concludes that the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between MMR vaccine and autism. This conclusion is consistent with the finding in the committee’s previous report on MMR and autism (IOM, 2001a).
The entire report can be read or a free PDF of the report downloaded at: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10997
There literally is NO reliable data — remembering that no number of anecdotal reports will equal scientific data — to support a causal relationship between immunizations and autism or any other common disorder. No substance you apply to your body or take into your body is without risk; too much water, too fast will kill you; too much pure oxygen for too long will irreparably damage your lungs and some other body systems and will kill you; not that much sunlight on your skin will increase your risk of skin cancers; etc. So, there is no 100% safe anything in this world. Expecting vaccines to be 100% safe is as reasonable as expecting crossing the street, driving a car, riding in an airplane, or going to sea on a boat to be 100% safe. Other, perhaps, than driving a car, all of the things I listed are quite safe — and many people do several of these activities EVERY day — yet no one is terribly shocked to learn that, somewhere in the world, every day, people die doing these activities. Yet we have a huge discussion going here and in many other places on the internet where individuals decry the fact that they are expected to get themselves and their children immunized because the immunizations are not 100% safe. As has been noted for the last 2,000 years at least, the members of the human race are very prone to straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
Your story is incorrect and Wakefield was working on not a vaccine patent but, a treatment for the intestinal/bowel inflammation caused ASD. There was no fraud in his study, only some lack of following the right protocols in the study being set up correctly with the authorities. Everything you have been told is lies and deliberate misinformation. The media simply bought it hook line and sinker.
Dr Andrew Wakefield – MMR Vaccine – Truth and Reality http://www.vacfacts.info/dr-andrew-wakefield—mmr-vaccine—truth-and-reality.html
The Vaccine Damage Science
http://www.vacfacts.info/the-unbiased-vaccine-science-and-data.html
New Published Study Verifies Andrew Wakefield’s Research on Autism – Again (MMR Vaccine Causes Autism)
Identification of Unique Gene Expression Profile in Children with Regressive Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and Ileocolitis
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058058#references
You will never look at vaccinated children the same- Shedding vaccines
Why All The Measles Outbreaks…
http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/why-all-the-measles-outbreaks/
Measles Shmeasles…
http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/measles-shmeasles/
Measles Facts, by ROBERT S. MENDELSOHN, M.D.
http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/measles-facts/
Whooping Cough Outbreaks in Vaxed Children More and More Frequent
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-11-27/whooping-cough-outbreaks-in-vaccinated-children-become-more-and-more-frequent/
Outbreaks of Measles in Vaccinated Children Intensifying
Atypical measles – a new phenomenon only in the vaccinated
Continuing measles outbreaks signal increasing incidence comparable with the prevaccine era.
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/outbreaks-of-measles-in-vaccinated-children-intensifying/
THE DILEMMA OF VACCINE-INDUCED DISEASE AND UNVACCINATED CHILDREN
http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vaccine-Shedding
Is the pertussis vaccine causing the recent outbreaks?
http://nourishingourchildren.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/is-the-pertussis-vaccine-causing-the-recent-outbreaks/
Silent Reservoirs for Pertussis Infection
http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/dec00/rr_dec00_pertussis.html
Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/
Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD)
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/
Post Vaccination – Vaccine Targeted Strain – Viral and Bacterial Pathogen – Shedding
http://www.vacfacts.info/post-vaccination-vaccine-targeted-strain—viral-and-bacterial—shedding.html
Lowell with respect. If you are incapable of explaining things in your own words than why do you think that you are capable of determining what is more accurate. You literally copy and pasted several dozen links and a video on random topics mostly unrelated to the fraud allegation. Doing this makes people seriously question if you actually know or understand the content of anything you posted since you couldn’t pick out the relevant articles from the mix. Nor could you show the posters here enough respect to even try.
Also suggesting that almost every country on earth, the vast majority of doctors and hundreds of professional organizations from across the globe are simply being misled by the media is a poor and lazy explanation for anything. It the same explanation that people who believe in big foot, alien abductions and flat earthier provide for their beliefs. If you can’t provide a better explanation than they can for why the facts don’t fit their belief than why should anyone treat what you said any differently.
You can do better…. And if you can’t than maybe you need to ask if your belief really does have the strong foundation that you think it does.
Im with Lowell, keep ignoring the growing stacks of proof Kevin, one day youll see how naïve you really are, or you wont, I don’t really care. To suggest that people will ignore Lowell because he didn’t put it into his own words is the lazy argument here. It is true that the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Duponts and other rich elite families have been manipulating the worlds banks and countries’ economies in an effort to have a one world government for years and is not only proven but admitted by them. You are probably unaware that every president is related and can be traced back to the King of England. That Obama and Cheney are cousins and that George W Bush and John Kerry are too. Thats right they ran against each other! You probably still think you have a choice when you vote. George W Bush’s grandfather Prescott funded Hitler in WWII, surprised? Did you know that Mount Rushmore was designed by a white supremist and that the Statue of Liberty was made by a Freemason and that it was probably done in the likeness of Cleopatra? or that the story of Jesus is actually the story of Horus, from Egyptian mythology? Lumping Lowell in with Bigfoot and alien abductions is even lazier than your use of grammar and spelling Kevin, but I bet it helps you sleep at night. You can BE better, much better. The truth is the strongest foundation there is. Vaccines indeed.
thought all the information was great Lowell. Thanks for sharing. Helped me to make an informed decision. I wonder just how many other people went through your material. It a shame if they just passed it by. People speak of being informed but then shun the resources they have at their fingertips. In my research I have found hundreds of Medical Professionals that have spoken out against vaccines. I personally have friends in the medical industry who are against vaccinations. It is hard for them to speak out about it though because of ridicule. Thats a shame.
Well said!
To clarify, I’m saying “Well said!” to Marni. Excellent, peer-reviewed studies cited, no drama, no U. of Google (despised by this Ph. D. professor).
Erin, If you wont say it the courts will. google Ryan Mojabi or Emily Moller. just two cases in which vaccines were found to be causes of autism. Although, while compensation reaches 10’s of millions of dollars they only admit to encephalopathy, not autism specifically. What I find most interesting is the medical records in most of these cases are sealed or blocked from the public and the rulings are often unpublished. This raises concerns about the interests of the government and pharmaceutical companies as well as the role of the media. But, just like tobacco industries arguing that smoking isnt harmful to your health while putting money away for lawsuits that they knew were inevitable, there will come a time when we will look back at this debate with certainty. While your at it, google the history of vaccines, it will tell you all you need to know.
Thank you for this post. The people who claim that vaccines cause autism are doing two things: 1) potentially ruining the lives of other people by not having children vaccinated, and 2) being incredibly insulting to people with autism by not understanding what autism actually is. It’s really sad what these people do.
1) ruining some big company’s profits? maybe maybe.. Tell my how rates of sick people went down almost to zero before vaccines were introduced. Tell me how some deseases even dissapeared, and no vaccine was introduced to “prevent” from those deseases? Tell me whose lives are pottentially ruined.. there is no such thing like “community immunity”, because there are lots and lots of people (30+ years and more) who were not vaccinated with lots of today used vaccines. So there is no such a percent like 95% of community are vaccinated. It is more about 25% – this can’t be called “community immunity”. And also – vaccines expire after 10 years or so, so there are lots ant lots of people who are not “immunized” or they lost their “immunization status” or whatever you call it. Again, if you are “immunized”, why would you worry? You are totally safe, aren’t you? So you really don’t believe in this “immunization” crap, if you still worry to get a flu, or any other virus. Then why would you write such stupid comments like ” 1) potentially ruining the lives of other people “. By the way, rates of autism in USA are shooking (1 out of 88), while in Europe its like 1 out of 1000. Think about it. What’s interesting in the blog post for me was, that rich people are avoiding vaccination 🙂 Oh ye, somebody knows more than you.
Tell me where you’re coming up with this crap, because I can tell you right off the bat that the rate of “sick people” was most certainly not at 0 before vaccines were introduced. Unless your definition of sick people is “healthy as a horse.” You want to know how some diseases disappeared before the introduction of vaccines? Enough people died of those diseases that the disease also died out.
You obviously don’t understand the way vaccines work, the meaning of “immunized” and you sound like a total conspiracy theory nut. Not to mention the fact that you obviously seem to think autism is some terrible, deadly disease when in fact it’s not in most cases. Scientists are showing more and more that everyone’s brain develops a little differently, and that has nothing to do with vaccinations. You are insulting people with autism who live perfectly normal lives when you act like they are debilitated.
http://www.sailhome.org/Concerns/Vaccines_files/historical_vaccine_graphs.png – all graphs show decline before vaccines. I have a 10 month child, never was sick, didn’t have temperature more than normal -some kind of “healthy as a horse” 🙂 – was not “immunized” not a single vaccine. People were living in the same house with flu and +40C temperature. People say, child is developing so fast, she can be compared to 14 months old children. Is that a pottential threat to community? Maybe.. she will be too smart, compared to you sick people. Go get some vaccines.
Wow – a whole 1 person anecdote! A ‘study’ with a sample size of 1! Incredible science we see from the conspiracy crowd.
Only the graphs from the hippy websites that made them up. All reliable graphs show quite the opposite. Let’s not forget that you’re making up the story about your one child. Sorry but when you’re on the losing end of science people like you make up stories to try and provide some “proof” of your position
you cant help everybody Algis, conspiracy theorist? I bet she says that to all the boys! its true, vaccines are not responsible for the decline of measles, whooping cough, typhoid etc. proper living conditions are.
http://api.ning.com/files/sSPAZJpsJUC0yPN0MSicqL9a25L3rlUrmbseEvRxmZvu8ifYC9cT4aQ2NpcpnNGljWwT*U4QREbY-Z3qBGRVYIqUh5nRpKEr/pertussis2.JPG – this graph has source, though more reliable
Those graphs show death/mortality rates, NOT infection rates. People were still getting sick, but medicine and general living standards have evolved away from the high mortality rates.
And you might want to read your source. Thomas Mckweon rates smallpox vaccination as one of the greatest medical inventions ever.
Your poor child, I hope someone calls Social Services on you soon – and I hope you get the help you need too. I don’t know if you have some form of mental insanity or maybe you’re just illiterate, but this graph shows nothing remotely like “the rate of sick people was down to 0 before vaccines were introduced.”
This shows that the amount of people DYING from ONE disease – whooping cough, aka pertussis – went down. You want to know why? Because before the vaccine for it came along, other ways of preventing it came along first. Like people washing their hands more and coughing into napkins instead of onto other people. There was also an economic boom during those years that made people less poor and less hungry – also contributing to keeping people healthy.
Go learn to how to read a graph. And then consider going to learn some science and some history. I don’t know who’s bullshit you’ve been eating, but you still have the chance to clean it up.
Algis. I’m going to make this simple.
DEATH IS NOT THE REASON THAT THEY MADE THE VACCINES. Our medical technology may have reduced the cause of death but it did NOT reduce the rate of infection. (check out those graphs)
Most of the viruses what we are vaccinated against are done because they have MAJOR long term side effects.
They cause infertility., spontaneous abortion, crippling of the nervous system. Birth defects, chronic pain and paralysis. These virus also don’t go away once they got a foot hold. You are a carrier the rest of your life and it can resurface at any point and pass it on to another person.
and also FYI your child has the mothers immunity right now.
” Maybe.. she will be too smart, compared to you sick people. Go get some vaccines.”
and FYI since you didn’t know ANY of above it was pretty damn STUPID to say that. considering it took me all of 5 minuets to find out.
So with respect Algis instead of believing in magic conspiracies and that your doctor and every medical professional world wide is personally out to get you on this one topic.
Maybe you should consider that fact that they know more than you and that the guy you take you baby to for a check isn’t an evil monster trying to kill your kid.
Totally agree with u algris. They are pro vaccines and still worry to get infected?? Makes no sense
Since you clearly don’t understand vaccines.. It makes sense that you think vaccinated people are “worried” for themselves. The short answer is no.. We’re not.. We’re worried about the affects of long term lack of immunization.. Put simply another plague is inevitable and completely avoidable.. However those that don’t get vaccinated don’t know the evolution of a disease because (thanks to a vaccinated public) they’ve never had to witness the horror.. And due to that fact feel invincible and immortal in the face of such an idea of epidemics.. Having never seen or experienced plagues why would you know it’s evolution or even believe in its ability to occur? But it does happen.. And it will happen..
How are the unvaccinated ruining the lives of other people exactly? Vaccines were never responsible for the disappearance of influenza, the measles, whooping cough, typhoid, scurvy and others. Proper hygiene and advances in society deserve the credit. Anyways, Autism is a disorder that impairs brain development, it is one of three types in the spectrum. The others being Aspergers and PDD-NOS. No one knows what it is, not even “ayearfromnowchampagne”, but court rulings have attributed many cases of vaccine injury on Encephalopathy(a disease of the brain). While being careful not to blame vaccines for Autism specifically, the symptoms and first signs are remarkably consistent in many cases. From what ive seen its only a matter of time. Just like the tobacco industry.
Reblogged this on Running for kicks.
@kevin. As an African American gay amputee also with ASD and graduating 3 rd in my class married with children all three with varying spectrum disorders it is ignorant for you to make wild ASS U mptions of my motive experiences and your faulty feeling of superiority. I don’t drive I don’t walk I haven’t had a drink since a month after I lost my legs to a road side bomb so get of your high horse and respect others if you want to shoot up your children go ahead but don’t try to make me or we will have bigger problems than just some feelings of insult.
There isn’t solid proof that vaccines don’t cause ASD, so until there is 100% proof many will still feel that there may be a correlation.
Just because you’ve had a hard life doesn’t give you the right to ignore science and doctors. Saying that isn’t meant to be insulting, it’s meant to educate you. If you don’t like it and you don’t want to listen, that’s your own problem to deal with.
why is it always the uninformed that try to educate. History shows no proof that vaccines are responsible for bringing infectious diseases under control(see typhoid, measles, whooping cough, scurvy etc.) Improved living conditions do. Its about a healthy immune system, that’s it. The industry boasts that you can take 100,000 doses easily with no harm. If youre so sure, take the Piers Morgan vaccine challenge.
What does that even mean, ” doesn’t give you the right to ignore science and doctors”? This is the U.S. We have the right to believe what we want and ignore what we want. As for it being at the peril of one’s own kids or others, this has yet to be demonstrated. I have heard ALL the vaccine statements many times. None of them hold water. Thanks to whoever posted all those sources, especially the Gianelloni Family Blog. She. Is. Awesome. (No, she’s not a doctor–foreseeing the inevitable snark–she’s just marshaled a lot of resources, including those who are doctors, for those who want to look into it. She does state that she hopes people won’t use that as their “research.”)
There is much more personal rhetoric going on from the pro-vaccine side than any actual information. Saying that I’m an idiot is so much easier than actually answering the claims:
–that pro-vaccine studies are being funded by Merck & Co. (Is there vaccine research that isn’t? What does it say?)
–that there is credible evidence vaccines did NOT cure polio (however, they seem to’ve caused it a number of times: about 40,000 cases in India, I believe. I pray to God that it doesn’t have permanent effects.)
–that there is a strong, OBVIOUS connection between vaccines and autism. It is NOT just that the vaccine “happened” to be given at the same time. By the way, the error of that could be easily established by giving the vaccine at a DIFFERENT time and observing those children.
–that vaccines have not been proven to work.
Why in heaven’s name do the non-vaccinators have to prove the danger? Wouldn’t it make sense, for people to inject themselves with foreign material, for the providers to have to prove there IS no danger? And since they virtually all admit that there is (we just disagree on the degree of danger), why are we even talking about this, rather than looking for better ways to stay healthy?
“If there were any other way, my doctor would’ve told me” is a cop-out. Doctors do not know everything. And they have not done that much specialized study of vaccines, on the whole: they’ve simply been told to give them. Some find it compelling that doctors, as a rule, “endorse” vaccines. Considering inevitably biased training (all training is biased) and despite pharmaceutical companies contributing to medical school, despite the obvious conflict of interest created by the Vaccine Injury Act, I do not find it compelling. I find it quite compelling that so many doctors have, nonetheless, turned against vaccines or to questioning them seriously. Maybe because doctors’ ideal was to “first, do no harm,” and many of them cannot walk away from that even with the extraordinary pressure placed on them. I also find it compelling that so many other professionals, such as chiropractors and nurses, do not or would not vaccinate their own children.
There is more to being scientific than aggressively promoting vaccines.
Finally, as to my physician knowing more than the University of Google–no. No he doesn’t. Do you use google scholar? Google News? Google anything that leads you to discussions of politics, money, or history? No one can possibly know all of that. Quit trying to shame people for daring to disagree with doctors. Even if no one in all of Western medicine had an inkling that vaccines were not the panacea for everything, there are those who don’t believe that Western medicine has all the answers.
I believe clarity is just trying to mock my posts. However, there is no point arguing about that fact since it has little to no bearing on the argument.
When I pointed out that as a professional and a person with ASD that found clarities insistence on the grounds she provided insulting.
The above was her response to that.
Clarity I don’t need to assign motives or assuming anything Clarity. I just need to ask questions and see your response.
Afterall in order to make your previous logic remotest sense to you if you were a black, gay amputee with ASD. Something that is a 1,000,000 to 1 situation.
That still doesn’t address the other known factors, or the rather insulting opinion of medical professionals worldwide.
Nore does it address the lack of corresponding drop in ASD in non-vaccinated populations.
And it ultimately doesn’t address the double standard you apply to this perceived threat. Walking and driving were just common examples that most people do on a daily basis. Your current challenges do not change the fact there are several hundred things you or millions of other people do on a daily basis that are more dangerous and more likely to cause a perfect storm situation than a vaccine ever would.
So with respect Clarity. I am not acting smugly superior….. I just have a superior and straightforward argument. One that is consistent in any other situation, requires no exceptions, and no conspiracies.
Remember you are the one who thinks they know than a world of qualified people on this topic. Not me.
I was honestly hoping that you would come back with a clear straight forward argument as well.
1. As to why unvaccinated populations have the same ASD rate as vaccinated ones and how does that affect your theory.
2. Why doesn’t the rise in pollution, food supplements, age of the mother, invention of the microwave the joy of canned pickles also qualify as a threat worth avoiding to avoid ASD. They actually fit your criteria better.
i have some more recommendations for you to read Kevin:
https://bookofbadarguments.com/?view=allpages
foryourconsideration:
Ben Goldacre is a terrific author, and doing great work to expose the genuine harms done by pharmaceutical corporations, and the messed up system we have for reporting the outcomes of trials.
Unfortunately for your argument, he is a staunch proponent of evidence-based medicine and outspoken about the fact that vaccines don’t cause autism (he centers the blame for this claim on the media as well as on Wakefield, but nevertheless). You would know this if you actually read what he writes. May I suggest that you read what you post in advance of posting it? Speaking of “Bad Arguments…”
ETA: Here is a piece Goldacre wrote on the Wakefield MMR verdict: http://www.badscience.net/2010/01/the-wakefield-mmr-verdict/#more-1491
Thank you foryourconsideration for providing those links. I’m sure the antivaxiers in this forum would be most interested to see how the wakefeild study was terrible science being done profit and how it puts the public at risk.
I’m also sure they will appreciate the illustrated and simple explanation what a logically fallacy is so they can realize how they rely on them for all of their arguments.
Did I misunderstand foryourconsideration’s point? If so, I apologize!
I don’t think so.
but I figured if he is going to provide us information that proves our point and not his own I should at least thank him.
You’re an idiot.
Yes, it’s about death rates, not infections. But still if you can be cured, why would you want to get vaccines (medication) in you. It has side effects. It’s better to avoid side effects and get medication when you need it. You say, if you get an infection, it has long term problems.. but wait! Those vaccinated have same chances to get sick. Look at statistics, half of sick are vaccinated from that diseases. Poor them, they got side effects from vaccine and the diseases. Side effects mean you have poor self healing mechanisms, because they have to cope with stuff you have in your blood after all vaccines. You don’t really know whats inside of vaccine.It may be protein of some animal or even abortion residue protein from lung, brain, skin. Do you have a knowledge of what it means for a body to find an intruder protein in blood stream? You get autoimmune response to that, if it’s part of lung – you get asthma, if skin, or brain – your body learns to fight your own body cells. RUN to your pharmacist for some more drugs – it’s their part to SELL you more. Also, you get the toxic metals, chemicals right into your blood stream. And what about SV-40 in polio vaccines. It was a mistake? What mistakes are they doing now, your children will understand 40 years later. Or maybe their children.. And the most stupid thing is to put that in new born child (hepatitis B vaccine in 24 h after birth). Why? is he going to get a shot of illegal drugs like heroin? Is he going to get a hooker? That is stupid and you will not find a statement against it. So tell me, if we all get sick, vaccinated or not, why vaccinate? Why take risk of side effects, slow child’s development?
Another thing, diseases helped civilization to survive to these days. Weak children died, instead, people were wasting resources on strong individuals. Virus work is like a body test, if you are strong, you beat it and survive. You can be strong, if you have good nutrition, clean place to live, no toxicity around you. You can be weak if you put viruses, toxic stuff, foreign proteins…
By the way, I had a hard time posting this comment. Have you blocked me? 🙂 Nice attitude for seeking the truth..
Nah, you got caught in my spam queue for some reason, and I didn’t see your post for a while to rescue it. Apologies for that.
I don’t block anyone unless they’re abusive, and so far nobody has been that bad. I prefer to keep the conversation going freely.
Sorry, DAlgis, but this:
Look at statistics, half of sick are vaccinated from that diseases. Poor them, they got side effects from vaccine and the diseases.
is only true if equivalent numbers of people were in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. When up to 90% of the population in an area is vaccinated against a disease but as many unvaccinated as vaccinated people get the disease, it’s proof that the vaccination worked. Remember, we pro-vaxxers, at least the ones who’ve studied the subject from a scientific viewpoint, have never said the vaccines were 100% effective. The idea of “herd” or “community” protection is that, if as many people as possible are immunized, those who can’t be immunized for health reasons and those in whom the vaccine is ineffective, are very unlikely to ever be in direct contact — that is, exposed enough — to an infected person to be at risk of getting, suffering from, being disabled by, or dieing from one of these contagious diseases. When you slash that herd or community protection, the people who were born with an immune disorder, the ones getting chemotherapy for cancer (and no matter how healthy you are now, the older you get the greater your risk of getting cancer), etc. are at an increased risk for that direct exposure — and if they get the disease, extreme suffering and death are way more likely.
Can I just ask if you have any knowledge in actual medicine? Any actual true knowledge of the immune system? You say you can receive treatment after the fact. You do realize that there is no cure for polio. And yes there is a confirmed case of polio is an Amish community that does not believe in vaccination. Have you investigated the number of infants who DIE from whooping cough. Both easily preventable diseases. You talk about autoimmune diseases when clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. You talk about survival of the fittest and the weaker children. Its kind of hypocritical don’t you think? It’s the reason you are anti vaccine because you believe in side effects. And no you can’t have a healthy immune system just by proper nutrition and the like. We are exposed to disease and microorganisms everyday. People don’t wash their hands, they don’t always cover their mouths, and there are organisms in the natural environment that are infective. People like you are the reason whooping cough and measles cases has tripled this year. I assume when you say “toxic metals” you are referring to aluminum, there is more aluminum found in breast milk than in vaccines. Also the amount needed to be toxic far exceeds the amount in vaccines. So please step down from your soap box and educate yourself before your “toxic” knowledge gets someone hurt!
oh i love anon.
Reblogged this on What Lies Beneath The Rock and commented:
An informative post for parents who’re confused about vaccinating their kids due to all the chaos out there.
Reblogged this on:
http://officialwarranty.wordpress.com/
thaaaaaaaaanx
True story:
After Fukushima I looked for iodine supplements, but the standard brands were all sold out – so, I called a local pharmacy. They told me they could supply a liquid iodine, but I’d need a prescribed dosage. Before going to the doctor, I went to the University of Google to research, found an appropriate website, and jotted down the mentioned dosage.
In person, the doctor told me he had no idea off the top of his educated head what the appropriate dosage would be, and would have to research. He went into his office to do so; I followed him. After a few minutes, through his sources he landed literally on the same website I’d found, and prescribed the same dosage.
Much if not most of everything pediatricians know, academically, is available at UG, and much, much more. If they would only use it, they’d begin to get an inkling of the nature and extent of serious vaccine damage, a subject never even mentioned in medical school, despite the fact that we routinely rely on doctors to assure the quality of our vaccine decisions.
But no more. Motivated by the protective instinct, parents are not only capable of discerning valuable sources of information, but determined to do so. Since medical schools deny doctors critical vaccine information, we must seek it out.
Shawn, unfortunately, you seem to have greater faith in information from unverifiable sources, from opinion pieces, and from the anecdotes of family, friends, and strangers, than you have in the literature based on use of the scientific method to test hypotheses and report on the results of the tests. By the way, did you thoroughly investigate the risks associated with excessive iodide intake prior to getting the prescription from your physician? I’m pretty sure he endeavored to provide you with accurate information in that regard, but I can’t tell for sure from your post here. Adequate amounts of iodide are necessary for the body to be able to create appropriate amounts of the thyroid hormones — but excessive quantities can create imbalances in those hormones. Backer and Hollowell (2000) (free PDF available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1638306/) report that, while most people can tolerate pharmacolgic doses of iodide for prolonged periods without complications, there are people without prior histories of thyroid disease who develop either hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism (with goiter) from ingestion of even the small amounts of iodide such as are used by travelers to purify water for drinking. They also report that there have been suggestions in the literature that a link may exist between increased levels of iodide intake and certain thyroid cancers. Since the incredibly minute amounts of atmospheric radiation that reached this country after the radiation disaster in Japan were never of sufficient levels to create increased risk of thyroid cancer, one wonders at your willingness to risk thyroid diseases, including cancers, treating a non-problem.
Or, for another reference on the subject:
At this website: http://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/43579?mode=full&submit_simple=Show+full+item+record
you can download a free PDF of a report, Concise International Chemical Assessment Document 72: IODINE AND INORGANIC IODIDES: HUMAN HEALTH ASPECTS
from the World Health Organization. Starting on page 21 of this document you will find reports on acute toxicity from iodine and iodides, including information on the unpredictable nature of human physical responses to increased doses of iodides. Again, while most people can tolerate high doses, some people experience alterations in the production of thyroid hormones at small to moderate doses, doses within the range of recommended dietary amounts. So, as you live life attempting to manage your own medical care, please make sure you’ve adequately studied the topics of importance, and make sure that, as you consult the University of Google, you have fully assessed the qualifications of the authors of the recommendations you find there, and that you have carefully searched for the currently available information in the scientific peer reviewed literature — where you have a chance that the people best acquainted with all of the world literature on the subject have reviewed the reports you’re reading and have evaluated the quality of the data (sample size, and how, when, and where it was collected); the quality of the analysis of the data; the comparisons of the current findings with the findings of previous studies; and the conclusions the authors of the papers have drawn from the above, and then the subject matter experts have been willing to bet their reputations on the quality of the entire paper provided that the paper’s authors have been honest. There are no 100% guarantees in this world — other than death and taxes, that is — but only in this fashion might you be assured that you will, in general, know more about medicine in general as it applies to you than your physician.
I recognize MANY areas of my life where I must do my best to find experts to provide services I haven’t learned to provide for myself. I could have chosen to learn one or even several of these occupations instead of the occupations I learned, but in this world no one can know everything necessary to live an active life. I cannot do my own auto repairs; I can’t generally do repairs on my household appliances; I have limited knowledge of the financial world, including the stock market and all that surrounds it; I can’t develop and manufacture my own pharmaceuticals, especially antibiotics, antihypertensives, and many other classifications of medications I may need at some point in my life; I lack the knowledge to develop a reasonable schedule for the regional bus service where I live; I can’t design and arrange for the construction of a city street, much less an interstate highway. I endeavor to be knowledgeable enough to be able to eventually detect incompetence in the providers of many services — but I don’t try to tell the providers how to do their jobs. I did choose to get a good education in nursing and did get a masters degree in the nursing care of adults. However, I recognize that I know darned little about the care of pregnant women, premature babies, people with acute and chronic psychiatric disorders, people requiring care in an intensive care unit, and so on, ad infinitum. There is no way your doctor could know everything about everything in the practice of medicine. In the absence of a true radiation emergency, there would be no reason for him to clutter his brain with information on protective doses of potassium iodide (or any other form of iodine meant for human consumption). Perhaps, in your chosen occupation or profession, you prefer not to have to make decisions and would rather not offer your advice to persons you meet in the course of doing your job. Most people, however, prefer to work with and for people who know enough to be reasonable in their expectations for outcomes and who accept that they won’t know as much as the specialists in the fields involved.
As humans we see the world through a filter as we BELIEVE it to be.. not on the truth as it actually is..
The only way for ignorance to see what it has caused is to experience the consequence of their actions.
There is no “treatment” for Polio, Measles, Mumps, Pertussis, or Diptheria.. all treatment for these addresses only pain and discomfort. These will be the same people crying “oh poor me and mine” when they’re lying by their 20 something year old having measles and not recovering. They are not interested in any kind of proof or legitimate finding. Their only interest lies in their filtered belief of all science bought and paid for to lie.
Again ignorance has a right to choose ignorance. What it doesn’t have a right to is complaint about the consequences of that choice. If you choose dying of a horrible disease? Then if it should happen you must remember your choice in the first place.
How ignorant you are is beyond comprehension .
Silver kills EVERY single Virus known to man and has been tested on all of them .
Then we have a MAX 30% immunisation so how would that work then you silly yiddish woman ?
Polio was a flue like disease PRIOR to mass vaccination which most Europeans could not be convinced was working and indeed IT DOESN’T .
So how does it all work for you Heide ?
You never checked when vaccination were introduced and when the diseases where dropping to close to extinction only staying alive in Slums of Metropolitan cities ?
POLIO died when they started washing hands ! Like all other serious diseases UNTIL they started vaccinating and allowing it to mutate to now
+25 STRAINS that paralise … when they never use to .
I HAD Measles and who here over 30 didn’t ? And who died ?
So Heide go and educate yourself before you push for something Like AGENT Jennifer working for Merck & friends does .
She gets paid for it what aboyut you ? What you get for spreading “their lies” you never properly analysed ?
Go and buy Eutsace Mullins Book and Russel Blaylock , a Author and a Neurosurgeon .
STOP spreading other peoples lies OR inform yourself to a point that you can make such silly statement like crying from Measles complication .
I kill this stuff with a little colloidal Silver proven to kill Measles as well and all over Viruses or diseases .
Also devices like the Rife or Papimi … use to have the Lakhovsky and Priore device all kill this silly Virus .
Also e
Like with most vaccines they were created to prevent more than death. But thank you for picking on one of the weaker cases and failing to talk about the viruses that we are vaccinated against that cause birth defects, spontaneous abortion, chronic pain and nerve damage.
However let’s look at measles.
Measles causes complications…….
Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from mild and less serious complications such as diarrhea to more serious ones such as pneumonia, otitis media, swelling of the brain (and very rarely SSPE – subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (leading to long term Seizures, neurological problems and coma) and corneal ulceration (leading to corneal scarring). Complications are usually more severe in adults who catch the virus. The death rate in the 1920s was around 30% for measles pneumonia (under death rates this was probably recorded under pneumonia).
In short measles is a gateway to bigger problems. (but you already knew this right???? Afterall it would beyond silly to talk about the death rates of measles when it’s the complications that are the primary concern. You’d never use a silly and erroneous stat like that would you.)
Polio among other things has a 5%+ chance of causing percent nerve damage and has a 22% infection rate and spends a large amount of time being undetectable. The vaccine has a 10 year life span and is 90% effective. It is now largely used in localized instances to stem a potential outbreak or high risk areas. (another thing you already knew of course. Didn’t you??)
And FYI I think hand washing has been around for some time. The people in the 1920’s and 1940’s were not unwashed primitives.
Sorry for being a little terse but you are accusing several million people from a thousand different political and economic backgrounds of outright fraud, incompetence and suggesting they are purposely causing you harm.
Than you are getting pissed at us for repeating and relying on the common knowledge from the world over supported by the same people you trust on almost any other medical problem you have.
Neither Merck, nor any other pharmaceutical company pays me. I’m a university-affiliated researcher. My salary is paid by the National Science Foundation.
the national science foundation is a government agency, it can be bought easier than Merck or Phizer can
Can we see your evidence for that please?
even better, can you use some other argument besides “big pharma”? like… humm… how about, some real evidence?
Poor John — missed out on the standard education in grammar, syntax, how to write an organized essay AND the scientific method. Therefore, he tries to substitute rash rhetoric for rational conversation. Polio is transmitted in WATER — and vaccinations protect most of the people who are exposed to the virus in their drinking water. If one examines the current situation in Africa and southwest Asia, for instance, where adjacent regions with equivalent hygiene practices either have children being paralyzed or dying of polio or not depending on vaccination status, it is difficult to maintain an argument that hygiene practices make the difference; given that the countries described also are of similar socioeconomic levels also addresses some of those arguments. Here’s a link to the WHO information sheets on the persistence of endemic polio in 3 countries, Afghanistan, Nigeria, and Pakistan. http://www.polioeradication.org/Mediaroom/Factsheets.aspx Given that polio in each country is occurring primarily or completely in only specified regions where immunization rates are low (sometimes the low immunization rates are due to the war/conflict related dangers of congregating in areas to receive the vaccine, sometime related to the forbidding of vaccinating by local governments/tribal leaders), it is, again, very difficult to say that socioeconomic or hygiene factors make the difference. Here’s a link to the website for the WHO Global Polio Eradication Initiative: http://www.polioeradication.org/
So, John, get your data together before you decide to post another anti-vaccination screed here. Some of us who keep up with the posts on this website actually read and understand research reports on this subject; some of us remember getting the first Salk polio vaccines back in the 1950s, followed by participation in Sabin Oral Sundays. We remember when parents kept their kids from swimming in rural rivers, lakes, and ponds during hot weather, before air conditioning was commonly available in homes, in hopes of protecting their children from polio — and we remember the subtle relaxation of our parents when they were assured that the risks to their children from that awful disease had been greatly reduced or eliminated with so little effort or expense on their parts.
Your ignorance is incredibly transparent and you fit in quite nicely with the sad few who ignore those who are well versed and well educated on the topic. Your belief outweighs the truth to the extent you’d believe any lie so long as it :supported your current belief system. You are certainly entitled to your choice, so why do you find it so hard to accept that others will make a different choice? Why must you defend your actions as though you knew it were a lie? http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html
Do you get an honorary tinfoil hat for reaching this unbelievable level of ignorance, or do you still have to make your own?
Just a quick question, how does Silver act on viral pathogens? I would assume that it would have to have some type of replication based effect, but given that silver has remained unchanged since it’s formation as silver, while viruses go through a plethora of nucleic acid mutations every year, how does it determine virus versus animal, plant, bacteria or other types of cells?
Do you have any papers to back up your response? I would be quite interested to read them, given it is my field, and I haven’t heard about the wondrous nature of silver (only that it was originally used but now levels of resistance and toxicity are mainly why it is phased out).
I think you missed John’s impressive point that just like werewolves, ALL viruses are killed by silver, every single one of them has been tested – and the only viral mutations that have ever happened were because of the introduction of the polio vaccine against a disease that never harmed anyone before we turned it in to the rabid killer it now is…
How irresponsible that we have been able to cure HIV all this time and have just done nothing
does that sum it up?
Hmmm, so then all we need to do is wear silver jewellery and no virus can ever harm us again?
Almost makes me wish John was right… I’d start wearing jewelry if it meant 0% chance of any viral infection!
If you wish to ever be taken seriously for your comments, you should first learn to speak with proper grammar. I feel like trying to read/decipher your post gave me cancer.
Hello John,
I know it has been a long time since you posted this comment and I sincerely hope you have changed opinions since then but I would just like to point out that yes nano-colloidal silver is an antibacterial agent but it should not be used in big quantities and should be used sparingly. It can cause some serious health problems if overused.
-A Nanotechnology Engineer
My god, not only do you know NOTHING about science, microbiology or infectious disease control, you’re barely literate to boot. Crawl back under your rock. Don’t bring you silver potion though, because you’re already brain-damaged from heavy metal poisoning from ingesting it.
I’m sure the Priore Incantatem and the Silver Lahovzky Potion and whatever other spells you use at St. Mungo’s work just fine for wizards, but as us muggles are unable to do magic, we’ll stick with the science based remedies. 🙂
GARBAGE , all false science …. Vaccination NOT RELATED TO AUTISM ? WHY DO WE HAVE IN UK
1 – 32 Kids Autistic ? Hep B vaccines at birth that last 4 years .
THIS WOMAN IS A AGENT FOR BIG PHARMA .
Vaccinations created 25 new polio strains that initially were flue like symptoms , harmless in 99.9% of cases . Now it’s a killer because of the mass vaccination .
TELL IT TO THE TEACHERS , that have 2 in 30 kids that they would consider Normal.
All other are ADHD, ADD , DDE , PPE … I am making them up because Vaccines create more chemical brain imbalances THAN ANYTHING ELSE ,
Don’t take my word for it ask a Neurologist like Russel Blaylock or
a excellent researcher student of Ezra Pound , Eustace Mullins .
THIS Agent 666 Jennifer either does it in ignorance ( me don’t think so ) or she is expecting her cheque from Glaxo , Merck & friend by end of the month !
If you rant and yell like a crazy person than you deserve to get treated like one.
Hey John, I ask everyone here to provide citations to peer-reviewed scientific studies for their factual claims. I’d appreciate it if you did the same. If the neurologists you mention want to come here and provide their data, that would be great, but please back up your own statements instead of telling us to “ask them”.
I can tell you that you’re incorrect about my sources of income– “Glaxo, Merck & friend” don’t pay me anything.
Also, what is an “Agent 666”, exactly?
Think about what 666 really means
What does it mean, Melissa?
666 is considered the devil’s number. an Agent is someone who works for something. saying “Agent 666” is essentially saying “Devil’s Advocate”.
Actually, the whole “666” thing is a mistranslation.
In May 2005, scholars at Oxford University using the latest advanced imaging techniques reexamined a 1,700 year old previously difficult to read papyrus and discovered that the fragment reads ‘616’, not 666.
So, all you people afraid of 666 are gonna need to dial it down about 5 clicks.
Actually, both 666 and 616 are correct. In Hebrew and Greek writing systems, letters are also numbers. To identify something as a number, they have a symbol before whatever sequence of letters they are referring to. Translated, it roughly comes off as “The number xxxx”. Nero Caesar was the ruler at the time, and if you write out 616 in Hebrew or Greek it spells out Nero. An alternate spelling of Nero Caesar is Neron. 666 spells out Neron in Hebrew and Greek.
I live at No 668. Does that make me the neigbor of the beast?
Actually the number 666 was the numerical representation that Jewish people used to refer to the severely unhinged Emperor Nero. The whole devil’s number thing caught on through the bible terming it “the number of the beast” as a way of speaking ill of the tyrant without fear of additional persecution. Soooooo yeaaaaa…… guess the good doctor is a servant of a long-dead emperor of an extinct empire……
haha burn @melissa
The good doctor who?
or you could go with the Biblical definition. maybe.
666 is a representation of evil. i know what you are referring to, and it’s actually christian writing in the book of revelations that has been theorized as referring to Nero, it’s not a jewish reference at all, it’s christian. And no one today would be using 666 to refer to Nero, it’s commonly acknowledge as the devils number
See also Mary Hopkin, she must despair.
Just wanted to say, Dr. Raff: very classy response.
Hate to reply to an old comment, but not all British people are similar to this individual. I would down right refuse to have children with my beloved partner if she decided she was against vaccines. I’ve had all my vaccines, I get the usual cold twice a year. I had pneumonia once that’s it. I don’t have ADD, ADHD, ABCD or EFG.
Sincerely,
Welshman living in Denmark.
You may be interested to know that the term Agent 666 was a tongue in cheek expression some used to refer to Aleister Crowley during his time working with British intelligence during WWII. I’m unsure of the origin of the term, or if it had more widespread use generally or as far as referring to other individuals, but in many of the published biographies of A.C. he has jokingly been referred to as Agent 666.
pretty sure it was a troll/joke comment… just saying
Agent 666 can mean Devil’s Advocate or in a Historical Sense it was a Member of the Allies Anti-Occult Task Force during WWII.
As to the other comments: 666 is also described in some myths as the number of links in the chain used to link Mikhiel(The General of Heaven) and Lucifiel(Queen of Hell).
Note: In most of the early myths Lucifiel was described as a beautiful women and was suspected of being changed do to patriarchal preference of the societies.
Really? “A women”?
Really? Do you always going around editing the typos on informal blog comments?
You must be fun a dinner parties. Surely no one would dare commit a grammatical error in your presence.
“do to” lol…
Beware of the homophone!
John, you realize that there are a plethora of other factors that could be related to the number of autism cases? Or could be linked to an increase in autism? By singling out one factor and promoting it as the sole cause, you have shown how truly ignorant you are. There are many other things that could cause this, and indeed many other things are being looked at to see if they have harmful effects (like some of the ingredients in our food). In studies of issues such as these, rarely is there shown to be one SINGLE irrefutable cause of a problem. Usually the problem is multifaceted and can be traced to several possible sources. It would be a good idea for you to become scientifically literate and actually make an attempt to understand these things before you spout ignorance.
Also, just because you can claim a few “experts” who back your cause does not mean that it is correct. There will always be people running to back claims, no matter how nuts they are. What you need to do is look at where the majority of evidence points. Are you siding with the minority, the ones who claim the least bit of scientific evidence? The side with the fewest accurate studies, with the least accurate data? Yes you are. There’s a reason why the good majority of true experts in this area don’t side with the anti-vaccination group. Hint: it’s because they’re right.
d
By the way, John, what formulation of silver did you test in humans to determine this global effectiveness against each and every virus pathogenic (or not) to humans? Viruses (or viri) are pretty ubiquitous and some of them, like small pox and HIV, are pretty darned lethal. I’m asking because, while pure, metallic silver seems to be relatively benign, it also is very poorly absorbed by the body and appears to stay in the gastrointestinal tract after ingestion and excreted, unchanged, via the feces. Soluble forms of silver, however, may be more problematic, as they are readily absorbed after ingestion and attach to various body proteins and to molecules of DNA & RNA. Now, imperfect as I am, I think I’ll try to avoid unpredictable changes to my DNA & RNA. Somehow, that just seems wise to me. According to Drake and Hazelwood, (http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/7/575.full), 2005,
Ancient civilizations were aware of silver’s bactericidal properties (Hill and Pillsbury, 1939). Metallic silver was used for surgical prosthesis and splints, fungicides, and coinage. Soluble silver compounds, such as silver salts, have been used in treating mental illness, epilepsy, nicotine addiction, gastroenteritis, and infectious diseases, including syphilis and gonorrhea (Marshall and Schneider, 1977; Shelley et al., 1987; Gulbranson et al., 2000).
Please note that prior to introduction of penicillin for treatment of syphilis, many treatments (arsenic, silver, who knows what else) were used but unless the body managed to eliminate the spirochetes (the process not apparently improved by any of the then available treatments), death from tertiary syphilis was the usual outcome.
Anyway, back to Drake and Hazelwood’s article,
Metabolism studies indicate that soluble silver compounds are absorbed by the body more readily as a result of their ability to bind to proteins, DNA and RNA. Soluble silver compounds can be quickly taken up in the bloodstream (Jongerius and Jongeneelen, 1992), deposited throughout the body, and subsequently reduced by light to metallic silver. Finally, accumulated silver can be oxidized to silver sulfide or silver selenide, resulting in blue-gray pigmentation. Metallic silver is not soluble in aqueous solutions nor is it readily solubilized by any physiological mechanisms (Grabowski and Haney, 1972; Weir, 1979); therefore, it is poorly absorbed after exposure and is more likely to be excreted by the body than is soluble silver (HSE, 1998).
In many of the studies, silver could not be definitively linked to an adverse health outcome due to the presence of confounders.
So, again, are you using pure silver to fight the viruses (viri)? If so, you’re almost certainly getting a pretty expensive placebo effect. If you aren’t, what substance or substances is the silver bound to that make it water or fat soluble and therefore absorbable? How toxic is that substance or are those substances? How much of it are you consuming? What are your risks for toxicity, including whatever might come from the silver binding to your DNA as well as what the other substance or substances might be doing to various vital organs? Oh, and what are your feelings regarding your skin color? One non-toxic side effect of chronic silver ingestion/inhalation is a nice dark skin color, that for one patient described in the article cited meant the patient “no longer looked Caucasian”? Just asking.
Since silver has been available in various formulations for several millennia, I think that if it was as effective as you think, we’d never have needed the small pox vaccine because only the poor would have died of the disease. Since it was a non-exclusive killer of people of all socioeconomic groups, I’d imagine silver was less than effective in combating or preventing the disease.
Well, neato. I’m going to have to check out this site sometime, with replies like that and the one from…Agent 666, I forgot her name already. Jennifer. Yeah, her.
Hi Marni,
My friend just shared the link to this article on my page. He told me to watch the video, read the article and then read the comments. He specifically said we should somehow befriend YOU, as you’re a critical thinker.
So, you up for two new friends? We promise to be open-minded, intelligent and painfully punny.
Let me know!
1 in 32 kids are not registered autistic in the UK, recent papers are showing autism starts in vitro, so it CAN’T be caused by post birth vaccination (see http://www.jni-journal.com/article/S0165-5728%2809%2900003-4/abstract). The autism = vaccination is a false cause/event analyse, the diagnosis and understanding of autism spectrum disorders has increased greatly in the last two decades, thus the rate of diagnosis has increased as parents and medical professional now look for it (see http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1651-2227.2005.tb01779.x/abstract;jsessionid=0F27377A06F330CFCC4F3E0E836DF646.f03t02?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false). There has been multiple scientific investigations of autism/vaccination correlation, none show cause (see http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134 and http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2899%2901239-8/fulltext) in fact some show higher rates in non-vaccinated children.
Um, in vitro meaning ‘in glass’ right? That first study doesn’t support your position Kev. It’s fairly neutral in that the findings could support both sides of the argument…
In vitro.. means before birth, in the womb, in the mom.
Autism starts before birth.
I’m autistic, I’m also allergic to components in vaccines.
Thus, I’ve never been vaccinated, I can’t be.
None.. no flu, measles, mumps, polio, pox, anything.
When people don’t vaccinate their children, they put many people at risk, not just their children.
It is the height of selfish behavior to deny not only your own child life, but possibly the lives of others because some snake oil salesman told you that their cure is better
In Vitro mean ” In Glass” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro)
Term for “In the womb” is In Utero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_utero)
Sorry, but Biologist wading in here.
“In Vitro” is used to refer to anything genetic/developmental/experimental that you do, is done, or happens, to the subject, while it is in place.
So when I subject my e-coli sample to an interesting allele I want them to replicate, it’s replicated “In Vitro.”
This usage of the term probably dates to shortly after Watson and Crick figured out the double helix.
Secondly, The first study *does* support his position. Given the rates of autism, and that the statistical change is apparent to the third S.F.
For a preliminary study, it’s pretty darn hefty.
Wouldn’t his statement be more accurate to be in utero? sorry to disagree with you, but while you do run experiments on bacteria “in vitro” it is quite difficult to grow an infant in a glass tube like you would a human.. You could, but there are a few laws, at least here in America, against it and it can get quite messy as the embryo grows. The development of autism however is not performed outside of its natural environment as in vitro would be defined, but rather develops, as Kev mentioned, within the womb prior to birth, in utero (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/in+utero, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in%20vitro)
In vivo technically is the better term, as presumably it is under experimental conditions during life.
However in utero is also valid, as it is the locality of the test.
… wait …. Eustace Mullins? The delusional pro-Hitler fascist? THAT guy? You’re suggesting that people should look at Eustace Mullins as a source? The guy who wrote “Adolph Hitler: An Appreciation”, and who believed that the Illuminati are behind the Federal Reserve?
THAT guy?
You can include Ezra Pound the anti-Semitic group along with Eustace Mullins. Apparently the former was a mentor of the later.
Polio strains were never as harmless as the flu
The world as a whole needs to take vaccines and the flu more seriously. The Spanish Flu of 1918 killed more people in one then the plague did of the 4 year period of 1347-1351.(http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/) I read people who feel that the flu is a upset tummy that after a couple days you are better. It is a potentially deadly virus that should be taken seriously. By seriously I mean GET A VACCINE. 🙂
you are plainly mad
you sound ridiculous
Troll.
Oh well. Your loss if you die from the measles or other viruses because you’re either stupid or you’re a troll. On the bright side that would mean less stupid people in the world.
You know, if you had used proper grammar, I might have been able to take you seriously. I would still say you’re full of it, but at least you would sound more educated.
For someone so hung up on grammar, you don’t seem to understand the concept of tense agreement.
You’re are nothing but a gullible arrogant misinformed ill-educated deluded sheep.
The tinfoil hat department is downstatirs and to the right.
Actually, most of these disorders are more related to formula feeding. Something that has become over-common in the last 20-30 years.
Breast Milk contains endocannabinoids that help regulate the body’s immune system and greatly affect mental development and protect against genetic breakdown.
Baby-Formula does not have these cannabinoids, nor does pasteurized milk.
This is why the more recent generations have had an increase in mental and physical disorders.
Erm, we don’t “have here in UK”. No evidence of anything relating any vaccine to autism. Nor was there ever. I believe that you may be referring to a single article published in the British Medical Journal that contained nine pieces of anecdotal evidence, from the US by the way, suggesting that a link could be investigated. Since then the BMJ has completely debunked the article, even if the evidence presented was convincing (which it was not, ask anyone with even a vague knowledge of statistics… I’m a member of the Royal Statistical Society by the way) the BMJ’s own investigation showed that the original evidence was highly manipulated. Many of the subjects did not agree with the findings of the article or, in some cases, even that they had indeed said what it was claimed that they had said.
In the meantime further studies, on a total of around fourteen million children across the US and Europe, have found no correlation whatsoever between any vaccine and any of the disorders listed above. These studies have been carried out under careful conditions which were independently scrutinised and their findings independently reviewed before publication. You may choose to criticise me for discussing something that you claim to be biased, but at least it is something. The anti-vaccine lobby have nothing to present in this discussion, or they would have presented it.
You may wish to note that even if there were a correlation between the rise in vaccine use and the rise in levels of autism being diagnosed (and I’m not sure that you can prove that there is one) that: firstly correlation does not prove causality; secondly any such correlation would be coinciding with greater methods for detecting and diagnosing autism. What I am saying is that just because there are is an increase in people buying yellow cars in your neighbourhood at the same time as an increase in children being named Gerald, doesn’t mean that the two things are related. Also that all those people who, even as little as fifty years ago, were simply the village idiot or ‘a bit weird’ are now autistic. I would urge you to reflect on these points.
As for the scientists that you cite, Russel Blaylock never publish an independent, peer reviewed article. While he was indeed published it was for an openly political group. Ezra Pound, unless you are referring to someone that I’ve never heard of nor can find any reference to, was a fascist poet and so I fail to see how they have a substantial voice in this debate. Eustace Mullins, another fascist poet, openly antisemitic and a holocaust denier. Clearly a delusional fanatic. I urge you to pin your colours to more reliable and respectable sources.
Perhaps if you spent more time reading you would understand these issues better. Wider reading would also allow you to form a cogent argument and even an effective sentence.
1 in 23 kids have always been on the autistic spectrum, we just know what it is now rather than calling them “problem children”
The 4 year thing, I think that is to do with the development of children’s immune systems and bone marrow, ask a biologist.
sure 2 in 30 kids “normal” right, source?
Who is “big pharma”? do you mean GSK who are admittedly getting obscenely rich off essential healthcare they have a monopoly on?
Yeah and why do you think vaccines are responsible for chemical imbalances, can you provide proof?
Hi John,
You can’t claim that at all, there is NO proof of a link – Correlation does not equal Causation (as anyone studying psychology/ statistics will know). The increase in diagnoses of Autism could be linked to a multitude of things! One great indication is that diagnostic procedure and criteria have gotten much better, if you look back into the not so distant past then you’ll see there were still people with autism but they were locked up in assylums, or parents didn’t seek appropriate help for them. Another is that we are becoming an increasingly aware society and recognise symptoms more!
There’s also some evidence that autism is also linked to brain structure not a chemical imbalance – (e.g. an enlarged amygdala) Baron-Cohen et al., which will have been determined long before they were administered any vaccine. The brain doesn’t actually change all that much after birth (only more connections) so there’s another whole in the story….
Please get proper evidence before trying to scare people who have control of the life of a child.
Here’s links to some of the papers I was talking about:
Click to access trautman.pdf
http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567(11)00303-0/abstract
“All other are ADHD, ADD , DDE , PPE … I am making them up because Vaccines create more chemical brain imbalances THAN ANYTHING ELSE”
lol talking of brain imbalances
Thought I might point out the fact that correlation does not equal causation, and a much, much, much more reasonable guess as to why there are more instances of ADHD, ADD, etc. (As a individual who personally has ADD, I can tell you there’s a lot of genetic basis, as my mom has it as well — same with a close friend of mine, who has ADHD from his dad) would be that A) Now that we’ve developed the diagnosis of ADHD more people are being diagnosed/misdiagnosed, and B) diet and largely sedentary lifestyle. Like, come on, does that not make way more sense? Kids aren’t moving around the way they need to, schools are making huge cuts to the amount of time for recess/unstructured play — this is proven to make kids less attentive and more irritable. Imagine keeping a puppy in a kennel all day, and that’s what’s happening to a lot of children. Additionally, certain food dyes and omega-3 and -6 imbalances, amongst other dietary imbalances and anomalies, can also stimulate ADHD-like symptoms. But most kids who are diagnosed with ADHD likely don’t have it (Which, again, as a person with ADD, is a dangerous thing to say because I don’t want to discredit a very real diagnosis or people out there who deal with it every day), and with lifestyle adjustments symptoms would probably dissipate.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I was born in the former GDR, there every kid dif get vaccination, free of charge, starting in the early fifties, so i look at my generation and the generation of my parents, none of them ever showed any of the symptoms you are describing, while on the other hand nearly all kid sicknesses where wiped out. So the these symptoms “ADHD, ADD , DDE , PPE ” are eventually more a society problem. Its really easy just check those countries where vaccination was free for a long time and check their rates of unnomal kids during this time, i am quite sure the numbers will speak for themselfs.
Correlation does not equate to causation. There needs to be actual science backing what you claim. 95% of people who have cancer have drank coffee, so coffee must cause cancer. hell it probably causes autism, and all the other problems. That is the same as your logic. i hope your children don’t suffer from your ignorance.
Majority of people who have vaccinations do not have problems you associate with them. if it caused these things, the numbers would be greater. there are a ton of unknown factors. you are agent 666
Did you literally just decide to NOT read any of the TRUE information she has taken the time to write for brainwashed people like you? You people are the reason there are outbreaks now of preventable diseases and deaths to many many children. Quit talking out your ass and get educated please.
if you have a problem with the diagnosis of psychological illnesses, you should be mad at psychologists, not vaccines.
“flue like?” You mean like those stovepipe devices? That alone shows that you don’t know what you are talking about.
Wow you literally make everyone else in the room dumber by simply existing. Raise your dosages please.
It’s funny, you spelled the corporations correctly, but pretty much urinated over an entire grammar textbook. A lot of your gibberish I can’t even decipher. I can honestly say that I could eat an entire scrabble set, ingest powerful laxatives, squat over a table, and defecate a more coherent reply.
Reblogged this on ofcourseitsaboutyou.
I’m a pediatrician. Wonderfully written. I will be sharing this…
Thank you so much, Dr. Ellen.
if you did any pubmed searches for the epidemiology of said vaccines you would know that these virus’ mutate, and shed like crazy. The vaccinated population is the group that is carrying around this man made in a lab disease. The unvaccinated have nothing to do with this creation….
Vaccines do not permanently give the person the virus. They provide a castrated version of the virus that provides our anti-bodies the opportunity to learn and adapt as they quickly kill the castrated virus. Our bodies learn how to spot the virus right away and how to kill it before it can get a foothold within our bodies.
So in short the Vaccinated population is not carrying around anything but an improved immune system that can recognize a virus faster and quicker than an unvaccinated person can.
Viruses do mutate but it takes time for them to do so. Vaccines give the body the ability to fight off the virus before it gets any foot hold and thus the person doesn’t get sick and the virus doesn’t have much chance to mutate. At least at no-where near the same rate as an infected person.
The unvaccinated population on the other hand can carry the fully functional virus around for years without showing the full signs of the virus. This provides the virus ample opportunity to sit and mutate as it fights against the person immune system. Providing penicillin against another virus will teach the more dangerous viruses how to live and survive.
So while I’m sure you enjoyed your time on PubMed. Your time would have been better spent learning the basics of vaccines instead of trying to second guess the professionals.
This all seems like basic common sense to me. However, the blog owner would probably know better than I.
I think perhaps the time has come for a post on the basics of how the immune system works. Mike, you seem a little confused. Viruses DO mutate, but that’s why we have, for example, a different form of the flu vaccine every year. Immunized people aren’t creating new viruses.
I’m glad you’re here, Jennifer (Dr. Raff? I’ve never addressed a scientist before, and frankly, I’m a bit star-struck, heh) to educate Mike on his misinformation because I’m writer, not a scientist and my only reaction was to burst out laughing at his post.
If what you say is true(and let me tell you it is not), then how do you explain the fact that we are not all swimming in rabid animals? By your logic all cats and dogs would do is “shed” rabies, therefor ensuring that all wildlife, livestock, and unvaccinated pets would be rabid. Yet, thanks to Louis Pasture (I’m sure you have heard of him right…did he work for big Pharm too?)rabies is much less of a problem today. How do you make this mesh with your little world view?
No need to insult. Read back, get off your high horse and delete that comment really quickly. Also, if you decide to contradict someone with years of experience and elaborate knowledge on the matter, better back it up with some evidence. “Let me tell you it is not” is not academic language and certainly won’t make anyone revise their original point of view.
Thanks so much for the fantastic discussions here, everyone. I have a favor to ask–would you mind commenting on this: https://violentmetaphors.com/2013/10/18/send-me-your-vaccine-qustions/ , with any specific questions/links/issues that you’d like to see addressed in a FAQ on vaccines?
I think it would be a helpful to pull together summaries of all of the questions and responses into an organized, searchable resource. It will be an iterative page, so I will be soliciting more contributions as it gets developed. Many thanks!
–Jennifer
Just a salient quote: Journalist Ed Murrow: “Who owns the patent on this vaccine?” Jonas Salk: “Well, the people, I would say. There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?” -Jonas Salk, medical researcher and developer of polio vaccine (1914-1995) So, no one is making a profit off of the original polio vaccine other than what a company can make off of an unpatented medication. If any company started making much money on it, some other company would begin to make it for a bit less — that tends to keep the prices down. I don’t know about the Sabin oral polio vaccine (which isn’t used in the US any more), and I don’t know about the current injectable vaccine — that is, I don’t know if it is the same vaccine as was developed by Salk and I don’t know whether, if it isn’t the same, whether there’s a patent holder.
I had a question about this particular quote: “Unvaccinated children are concentrated in particular states, increasing the risk of transmitting vaccine-preventable diseases to other unvaccinated children, undervaccinated children and fully vaccinated children.” So what they are saying is that unvaccinated children are increasing the risk of transmitting diseases to other children… including vaccinated children? How does that make sense? If the other children are vaccinated, why would they be getting those very diseases they were vaccinated for??? Isn’t that the whole point of vaccinating them? So that when they are around the virus, they DON’T get it? I am on the fence about vaccinating my children and trying to make an informed choice.
No vaccine is 100% effective. However, the FDA approved vaccines have track records of preventing infections after exposure in most of the persons who were vaccinated. So, the herd or community immunity protects both people who, for medical reasons, can’t be vaccinated, AND people who received the vaccination but whose bodies simply didn’t respond in the expected fashion by developing the “upgraded” immune system cells. Since revaccination probably wouldn’t be effective in those few folks, testing is rarely done for the general population since
1. it wouldn’t change what care would be provided, and
2. since it affects so few people it isn’t cost effective to conduct the testing.
Healthcare providers ARE tested for immunity to certain viral infections because if they aren’t immune, they might contract the disease and, during the prodromal period (the period before onset of symptoms of a disease, during which time the person is contagious), they might infect at risk patients with dire results. I hope this explains why vaccinations are important for as many people who can safely be vaccinated, even though they aren’t 100% effective.
research the history of vaccines Amanda, many infectious diseases were on a major decline or had disappeared completely by the time a vaccine was ever introduced. Yet the medical industry takes credit for it. The story of Leicester England is an incredible example. Whooping cough and typhoid never even needed a vaccine to be eradicated. This is undeniably true in the US and Europe with other diseases like influenza as well. Their decline was attributed to better living conditions, proper sewer, cleaner water, better personal hygiene etc. Understanding the history of vaccines, you will definitely find a side of the fence to land on.
I live in Nigeria, and we have a high rate of typhoid fever here. Do we have clean running water? Yes. Even amongst the élite, with high hygiene standards, there is still a high rate of typhoid fever. Because all it takes is one meal from a person who is a carrier of typhoid fever to pass it on.
However, there was a period in the 80s and 90s when the typhoid vaccine was easily available. Those who got it then can eat freely anywhere and never come down with typhoid. Now, the typhoid vaccine is not part of the National Programme on Immunization, so you see pple getting the disease. To get the vaccine on your own from a private hospital costs about 10, 000 naira (abt 62 dollars).
Also, under the NPI, vaccination is free. Mothers pay 50 naira for the syringes used, and about 200 naira to get a booklet where the child’s immunization history and general progress would be recorded.
Almost all babies, except those in the core North where there are some tribal issues against vaccines, are immunized. Do we have a high rate of autism? In spite of our meagre research and records, I would say NO.
Someone mentioned above how a teacher would be hard-pressed to find 2 normal kids in a class of 30. That is unheard of in Nigeria. Yes, we have special schools for the autistic and mentally-retarded, and yes, some children with these conditions are not sent to school at all. But that doesn’t mean we have a high number of autistic children.
I’m speaking not as a scientist, because I haven’t done any study to prove my points, but as someone who lives in a community and has children around her.
Are there no other causes of autism besides the MMR vaccine? I think that is what people in the US shd be focused on answering? And since only the MMR vaccine has been implicated, shouldn’t the fight be about discarding that only, but comtinuing with the rest?
Lily, the “study” linking the MMR vaccine with Autism was proven to contain falsified evidence and withdrawn. That’s science-journal speak for “The guy who said he found that the MMR vaccine causes autism was lying about that”.
The guy – Andrew Wakefield – made money from lying about the MMR vaccine. He has also been struck off as a doctor – had his licence to practice medicine revoked.
To think that you know best because you have letters behind your name is a real error and a major cause for concern. You are the last person that the Big Pharma companies want knowing the truth. You are the interface between their agendas and society. How long was the period of study for vaccines or immunology in medical school? A couple of weeks? the same as nutrition id guess. Its why bank tellers don’t know what the rule of 72 is, or why the power of compound interest isn’t taught in schools. The FDA finally has admitted that trans fats are not “generally recognized as safe” but only after years of public and scientific outcry have they dared to take such a small, meek step forward into the future. How long did it take the tobacco industry to admit what theyd already known for years? They are more concerned about their shareholders and the bottom line than our health. The rich and powerful companies want it this way. They want the debate to continue for ever. You are allowing yourself to be used and you are doing a great disservice to the people. You are the Marlboro man. You are allowing yourself to be guided by your bias and ego. You are scared because of what it would mean to your career if you were wrong. Have some courage and look at some information that is not sponsored by CDC or the FDA or other corrupt organizations and you will find the truth. For that is what will win this debate, not you nor I. The truth will win, and you owe it to every person you treat to find it, fast.
I don’t have my letters yet (or the title/education they represent), I am “only” a first year medical student. I feel I can help out with your question (since it is clear you have not looked at a medical school curriculum).
We have an entire class called Immunology. Since I am a first year, this was a basics course. We only covered the “simple” stuff, for 6 weeks. Then we constantly refer back to it, even on exams. So I would say by now, I have covered the basics for about 8 weeks now. Again, this is my first year, I get to enjoy the specifics of diseases and their immunological ramifications, I will see you in a year for a deeper conversation if you would like.
The debate should be over, we are trying to end it, just people will not listen.
Scientists are not Marlboro men, for two reasons. First, that is a spot held by ad execs. Second, are you really trying to compare us to an ad character? Really?
We are guided by science, and peer-reviewed data. I am curious, what are you guided by?
Truth will win, as it always will (see Copernicus or Galileo) just it takes some intelligence and gumption to receive, read or understand the information.
I would much rather my kid be autistic than ever have to even risk the chance of suffering from tetanus, whooping cough or polio.
Autism doesn’t kill your children, or permanently disfigure them. So many of the diseases we can prevent and have eradicated, do. I am already infinitely grateful that smallpox is gone.
That aside, why is it that every single rant I see against vaccines boils down to conspiracies and Big Pharma money? Where I live, vaccinations are free of charge.
I would suggest that you study up on the effects of autism, then. It’s not what the media would have you believe and frequently involves kids who are non-verbal and not toilet trained, teens and adults who scream for hours, lunge out with no provocation, and still have other bathroom issues. Needless to say, many cannot go in public.
Most people, if pressed, would prefer a disease that attacked them physically but left their minds intact to the horrors of severe autism.
Also, the great majority of people who do contract polio recover just fine. Those who do not may sometimes be the same ones who got the illness FROM the vaccine. No, I’m not going to link to any peer-reviewed paper. If I did, the avid vaccine defenders would carefully find something to shred anyway.
For those who are interested, Neil Miller’s Vaccine Safety Manual and Aviva Jill Romm’s Vaccinations: A Thoughtful Parent’s Guide are interesting places to begin. These are print sources.
Gianelloni Family Blog also links to and references some fantastic sources.
Watch The Greater Good on youtube.
The best thing is probably to challenge yourself to find any study NOT funded by Merck or other drug companies that shows a vaccine–any one vaccine–to be both safe and effective. Or it would be fine to find 2 separate studies–one showing the MMR, for instance, to be safe, and the other showing it to be effective. The first question should not be why anyone wouldn’t vaccinate; the first reasonable question is why anyone DOES inject himself with foreign material.
Whoever said that organic food companies also make lots of money, the point is not that you have to reject something because the producer is making money. The point is that you need to recognize conflicts of interest. The organic farm should not do its own studies for effectiveness and safety. You cannot reasonably expect that any study carried out in this way is unbiased or accurate.
Oh dear….I don’t know where to begin….Please don’t refer to children with autism ” not toilet trained, teens and adults who scream for hours, lunge out with no provocation, and still have other bathroom issues. Needless to say, many cannot go in public.” It is just plain offensive. Children are born with autism. It is who they are and they are wonderful, interesting people. These children are wonderful children simply see and react to the world differently than us.
For the vaccine argument, I won’t consult science (even though that is the logical way to go) but I will consult common sense. Where in the world did you hear that many people recover fine from polio? If you don’t die, you have lasting effects including paralysis. Many immuno-compromised children cannot get vaccinated and thier lives depend on the common sense from the rest of us.
For conflict of interest, not only pharma companies research vaccines. Universities and research facilities dedicate their time and lives to this research with NO conflict of interest. There are many studies not done by these companies but by scientists at Universities. Pub Med is a great place to start to do some actual research.
Spreading fear is very dangerous. Not vaccinating children is ignorant and dangerous. Please educate yourself not on blogs and fear-filled websites.
Our society depends on it!
I’m so late here but I climbed down the link rabbit hole. I have an autistic child and he is NOT the boogyman man hiding under the bed or a parent’s worse nightmare.
He’s amazing. Fear mongering hurts the Autism Community. It hurts MY son. It paints a picture that makes him be seen as less than human. When really he is amazing and I’m very lucky to be his parent.
Oh yeah and I vaccinate on schedule. I’m suspect genetics is the driving force when it comes to my kiddo. There is no link but even if there was I’d take my son just as he is 100 times over a dead child. To believe other wise is disgusting and dehumanizes his inherent value as a person. My child’s presentation is not severe but EVERY PERSON Autistic or otherwise has value and dignity.
As someone that has Asperger’s (an Autism Spectrum Disorder), I really appreciate your kind words regarding what an Autistic person is like. Many people often forget that that there is a spectrum of what one can expect with an Autistic kid, and thus stereotype the Autistic community. The truth however, is that many of us with Autistic Spectrum Disorders go on to live fairly normal, well adjusted, happy lives. There is no doubt among educated people that Autism is a disability or that it can cause problems in one’s life, but no matter what, all people deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.
Cheers to you Dawn! (i too fell fell down this rabbit hole.) My 8yr old son, who is a beautiful and amazing smallish human, is on the autism spectrum with Aspergers and ADD. He was also a preemie. Since birth he has had a less than stellar immune system, therefor catching every bug and usually far worse than his class mates, not vaccinating him would have been a death sentence. I too would take the risk, even if it was well proven one, over a dead child. ( Interesting note :we have a few Aspergers and PDD-NOS individuals that have come to light in the last couple/current generations of both family lines when doing the testing for our son. I am with you on the genetics factor with mine as well)
I would like to say thank you. I have ADHD (Attention Deficate Hyperactivity Disorder) a cousin of Autism. My best friends have a mix of Autism, ADHD, ADD, Aspergers as well nothing at all. We are not holding our own version of AA (Which I think most of you shollow and small minded people who get your facts from the guys screaming the “end is here” on the corner of your street seem to go to swap your small minded and factually wrong concepts) where we get together and share how hard it is for us to function. I am an electrician from victoria, so by no means a fool. I have a friend with Autism who is going on to his last year of chemistry, but I wont use him to prove I am correct. I also have a writer friend who has Aspergers, a mechanic with adhd a farm hand with ADD. Three semi-pro LoL players with Autism.
None of us hide away, in fact we spend more time in public than we do asleep. But hey if you think that we all manage to miss like your drunken friend on the corner, then good for you. You had a though. Not a great one I will admit but hey we all start somewhere.
Now can you please show me one bit of fact. One report that has not been blown so full of holes by other’s in the scientific community that you could use it to strain pasta of water. You do that and me and my friends will all start missing the bowl and being the hidden away monster that you think we are. Till then I would only ask of you two things. One that you shut up with your arguments that are so lacking in facts that it is almost an insult to us with the ability to think more than once a day. And two that you think before you open your mouth and see what effect you bigoted idiocy can have.
Yours truly
A guy who fully thinks you should get vaccinated.
Just a quick reaction to your incredibly inaccurate description of Autistic children: ” of the sweetest and best children I have ever worked with as a kids worker were on the ‘extreme’ end of the autistic scale. With love and understanding from their families and teachers they blossomed into loving 8 year olds. Yes they reacted differently to the world then I do but you just have to learn to adapt to them and after that it’s like looking after any other kid in the world!!!!
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/flu-vaccine-is-the-most-dangerous-vaccine-in-the-united-states-based-on-settled-cases-for-injuries/
Ed, it is unfortunate that the person or persons who wrote the report at the site for which you provided a link didn’t read the data in the chart they provided which shows that the time from the filing of a petition with the “Vaccine Court” to the time of settlement of the various cases ranged from 6 months to at least 2 years and 8 months. That is, the data report cases settled, not the number of cases that were reported or that occurred in a 3 month period. The report also assumes that not one person in the United States of America has EVER filed an unjustifiable claim with the vaccine court so tax payers or pharmaceutical companies should willingly pay any person who files a claim however much money they ask for — no proof required and no questions asked. You may believe this to be true, but I spent too many years as a nurse hearing patients and family members admit to bold-faced lies about the facts of a case (including a clear memory of a parent telling me he had lied to a police officer about the circumstances of a child’s injury) to believe that in this one arena patients and families only ever tell the truth.
According to the website for the “Vaccine Court” at http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreports.html#_ftn5
from 2006 to the end of 2013, about 809,000,000 doses of flu vaccine were administered; and there were a total of 658 cases where patients or their families were compensated for complications thought likely to have been caused by the vaccine. NOT definitely were caused by the vaccine, just likely. This is a complication rate of 0.00081%. Now, among the population of the US,, for just the 2012-2013 flu season, there were 8.9 hospitalizations for every 100,000 population (including all ages) for influenza related illnesses. This would be, then, 890 hospitalizations per million of population. Since there are over 300,000,000 people in the USA, you can see where your greater risk can be found. If the flu vaccine was only effective 50% of the time, the numbers would still be overwhelmingly in favor of getting vaccinated.
Finally, when you find a completely safe human activity or a completely safe substance that a human can put into his/her body, please, please notify me. I have yet to find anything that cannot, under some circumstance, be dangerous or lethal to humans.
“Finally, when you find a completely safe human activity or a completely safe substance that a human can put into his/her body, please, please notify me. I have yet to find anything that cannot, under some circumstance, be dangerous or lethal to humans.”
And that is why insisting that the majority of humans ought to put into themselves any substance is unconscionable.
I find “the few for the many” to be ethically abhorrent.
You’re right. “The many for the few” makes so much more sense.
Ooook, so don’t eat, don’t drink and don’t breathe. Oxygen, water and food are substances too, you know?
By the way, there is more mercury in fish than in vaccines.
Ah, and by the way, this is NOT a “the few for the many”. This is a “accidents can happen: this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use a powerful tool for fighting diseases”.
like all big pharma propagandists, this author suppresses evidence, then denies there is evidence… there is OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE that the skyrocketing levels of many childhood maladies have been caused by the skyrocketing levels of vaccination..
please do your own research and then ask yourself why these FACTS have been hidden from the public? 22 Medical Studies That Show Vaccines Can Cause Autism, vaccine studies damage nervous system, vaccine compensation payouts prove autism link, Univ of Piittsburgh infany monkeys autism study, following vaccinations testimonials, mmr autism testimonials, Dr. salk admitted vaccine caused polio epidemic…
Prove all of that. Provide empirical, evidence based studies. Not some website with unproven statements made by someone with unverifiable credentials. If there is a ton of “evidence”, okay, should be easy for you to provide. Don’t you want to? We’re all waiting for you to prove us wrong.
I guess you don’t believe in climate change either right?
Ya’know what fellas, I think this is just natural selection at work, we should all just shut up and start working on a way to survive climate change and go to mars. Screw trying to talk all these people into facts, it’s a waste of time.
right the natural selection thats going to leave you with less brain function for being vaccinated, thank you good day.
Says the person who uses improper grammar throughout his/her post. Oh, the irony.
I was vaccinated, ‘friend’
I actually do have many diagnoses on my head, most of them somewhere on the Autism Spectrum or Dissocial Disorders; though if anything was done to make me that way post birth it would probably have been the sexual assault received via both birth parents.
As for natural selection, I’ve only ever worked to enhance myself and my community. Sometimes in ways considered universally charitable, sometimes by running fear-mongers from their soapbox altars. I’ve achieved quite a bit academically, and despite some troubles with interpersonal relations, I’ve created a fine web of people to support me should I ever slip. Negative thinkers like you doubtless could achieve so much more; I realize it is a fallacious statement, but I urge you to consider people like me. Autism or other disorders of the mind do not preclude success or contribution.
I totally agree, Chris. This author has been paid to write this article, and the brainwashed zombies can’t do their homework and think for themselves. God bless the whistleblowers that are not afraid to tell the truth no matter what!
Amen Tutti. Worth repeating
“I totally agree, Chris. This author has been paid to write this article, and the brainwashed zombies can’t do their homework and think for themselves. God bless the whistleblowers that are not afraid to tell the truth no matter what!”
The same old worn out rhetoric still being parroted after all these years can easily be spotted & seen through these days. And because, FINALLY, many people are paying attention we can get to where we need be in order to save our children from further harm & death. Thanking the good God is for that.
Too many watching for the cover up to continue. That cat’s not going back in.
Please see the most urgent link & help truth along by taking action. The video at this link made believers out of many who did beLIEve vaccines not a problem.
We The Parents & World Citizens want a retraction of the fraudulent 2004 MMR autism study so please add your signature.
“We The Parents & World Citizens want a retraction of the fraudulent 2004 MMR autism study so please add your signature”
Why? What are the scientific reasons? Please provide the critique from someone who is actually qualified (not Brian Hooker nor Mark Blaxill) on how it is wrong.
ou, the Author of this Article, are very biased. Have you ever read any literature, from educated people, about why people choose not to use Vaccines? You have only proven your own ignorance through what you have written. I suggest you have a look at some of the articles on NaturalNews.com by Mike Adams about Vaccines.
Did you know pharmaceutical companies, with their obvious profit motive, educate doctors about how great their drugs are, and they often pay them very well to push them on people? Think that might cause any bias?
Do you really believe you need to rely on a doctor to be healthy? If you do think a doctor is necessary for you to be healthy, then you probably do need one, and you’ll probably need a good psychiatrist down the road to help you once you’ve realized the full consequences of deciding not to take responsibility for your own health.
Doctors are great for emergency surgery, but natural health education, and simply treating your body with respect will keep you more healthy than a vaccine will. Ever notice that most people getting the diseases there are vaccines for, are the ones who’ve taken the vaccines? It’s a sick mentality to rely on Doctors to keep you healthy.
Unfortunate to see people give up their responsibility for themselves and their health and become guinea pigs for the medical industry.
Please get educated BROADLY and then rewrite your opinion about vaccines.
Well said i agree,, there is so much information on vaccine injured people ..And deaths ..Even cases like in Africa were 69 children contracted a type of polio ,,from the oral polio vaccine ..These pro vaccine people fail to mention the dark history of vaccines ,and proven side effects …From SV40 to Cow pox puss injected in people etc etc etc …Vaccine inserts have side effects on them as well also…Also outbreaks of mumps ,whopping cough, measles are happening in the vaccinated …Always a one sided opinion ,repeating the same pharmaceutical corporate sales propaganda …When all you have to do is read a vaccine insert and see that = Vaccines have side effects ..Even expert immunologist etc are finding out major flaws in vaccinations =https://sites.google.com/site/vaccineillusion/whooping-cough
I have read many vaccine inserts; no one with ANY sense whatsoever would ever say that vaccines are 100% safe and effective. One of the reasons that the US has gone back to a “Salk-type” injected polio vaccine and moved away from a “Sabin-type” oral polio vaccine was the rate of mild cases of polio caused by the “attenuated” virus used in the oral vaccine. The oral vaccine is still used in under-developed countries because it IS effective in preventing severe polio in almost all of the people almost all of the time AND the storage requirements for keeping the vaccine from degrading and becoming ineffective are much less stringent than what are required for the injected vaccine. The effectiveness of vaccines against the diseases they battle is well documented with carefully designed studies, and the decreases in incidence of the diseases is significant. I certainly was fully vaccinated as a child. For instance, I received the full series of the Salk polio vaccines when that became generally available and then we had “Sabin Oral Sundays” where I received the full doses of that vaccine when it became generally available.
For those of you who are so rabid in your fear of all things vaccination, I’m very sorry for you and your children. Most of you seem to prefer anecdotal evidence to scientific research, and while it can be very impressive to say “in my family” or “read this blog” or “read the news reports about”, you will NEVER get a balanced presentation of facts from these sources.
Also, while the pharmaceutical companies in this country make huge profits on newly introduced medications, most of the vaccines in use provide minimal profits to those companies; and in other countries where the vaccination rates are as high or higher than what we have in the USA, their profits are severely limited by the governments of those countries. So, the profit motive is minimal in this area of medication preparation, distribution, and administration.
Ah well. I know this won’t convince those who distrust vaccines, but at least I have the comfort of knowing that, via my comments on this blog, I’ve done what I can to support Jennifer in her attempts to provide science-based information to the public on this subject.
Troll, and paid mouthpiece.
If I were a paid mouthpiece of anyone I’d never have had to work the hours I worked in over 40 years as a registered nurse, including my years as an instructor in various schools of nursing. And I’d be wealthy rather than needing to live on my pensions and social security. It’s so very easy to resort to name calling and blaming when one really would rather not research the depth and breadth of information available on a subject, especially when that information does not align with one’s personal beliefs. You have my sympathy, and if ever someone near and dear to you suffers permanent disability or death from a preventable disease, you’ll also have the sympathy for your loss from most of the doctors and nurses who provide the care required.
I find it hysterical that anti-vaxxers call everything vaccine related as “crowd-think” and do not for one second question or concern themselves with the pot calling the kettle black.
Reading a pseudoscience blog and opinions and translating them as facts is not educating yourself. Dismissing any and all studies supporting vaccinations as falsified or doctored (no pun intended) is not educating yourself.
I am fully willing to support no vaccines if and when the evidence is overwhelming in its facts that vaccination has no value.. But as of right now, right this minute? No such luck. We are seeing a resurgence of diseases not reported in years and years.. Specifically the ones that have vaccines.. This alone is its own evidence to support that vaccination has an affect..
To deny that nearly dormant diseases are suddenly upon us as if nature spontaneously decided without help from any source? It is uneducated at best and purposefully ignorant at worst..
Why is it so hard to consider that vaccines have a sound purpose and so easy to believe that it’s all some stupid conspiracy theory?
What science-based information? It is easy to manipulate the study data to reflect what the pharmaceuticals want as an outcome. Let me give you one example of thousands so that you may want to explore the truth. So sad as to see another fall for the vaccine propaganda. Their are millions spent on vaccines every year http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/index.html?s_cid=cs_000 and though the profits may not be as high (20%-150% profit the CDC makes selling to the private sector) as pharmaceutical drugs the acute and chronic disease and lifelong disabilities that vaccines cause make billions more in profit for the pharmaceuticals drug pushers and cost the tax payer, the economy and the families of those damaged by vaccines BILLIONS MORE financially and an immeasurable amount in emotional and psychological cost including the financial cost to take care of the vaccine injured.
There are thousands of adverse reactions to vaccines.
Possible Adverse Effects from the Flu Vaccine
An article in JAMA estimated that 1:4000 will experience an adverse reaction, a lot more than the one in millions that we are quoted or see written.
Reference: JAMA, June 19, 1999 vol. 281, no.21, pg.2132
Vaccine adverse event reporting system (VAERS) – Voluntary reporting system for adverse reaction to vaccines that was formed in 1986 to compensate citizens for injuries. It was set up because the government knows that vaccines can cause injuries and death and considers those results as a necessary sacrifice for the common good. Anyone can report adverse reaction to vaccines including parents, health workers or the one who experienced the adverse reaction. The FDA states that 1% to 10% of all Adverse Reactions are reported. To more accurately estimate the numbers of adverse reactions reported to VAERS for a specific vaccine, you must multiply the VAERS number by 10 to 100 because only 1%-10% of adverse reactions are reported.
NOTE: Adverse events are compared to doses distributed, not to doses administered, therefor expressed as a percentage of actual administered doses, adverse events could be significantly higher as no one knows how many doses are in storage.
At a CDC conference call for 2009-2010 flu season there was 16, 234 adverse reactions to the flu shot. You can multiply that by at least 10 for a more accurate number of adverse reactions (162,340).
Of the adverse reactions reported for the flu shot: Again multiply all statistics by at least 10 for a more accurate number.
46 were fatal x 10
605 x 10 considered non fatal – Ranges from hospitalization to a sore arm or rash etc.
93 x 10 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from the swine flu shot. 1:20 is fatal for someone that develops GBS.
112 x10 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from the seasonal flu shot. 1:20 is fatal for someone that develops GBS.
Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) occurs mostly from the flu shot and Hep-B, but can be the result of other vaccines as well. It affects the nervous system and the patient gets ascending paralysis that starts in your feet and goes on up both legs and can reach your diaphragm and are placed on a ventilator or you die. A patient will usually spend 2 days to 6 months in the hospital and usually on a ventilator (modern day IRON LUNG). In a severe case you may go through months or even years of rehab and may never gain complete function back. The CDC’s position is that the number affected statistically is insignificant compared to the number of shots administered. But when it happens to you it is very significant. It is also very significant the amount of health care dollars spent to help these victims recover not to mention there personal loss and the economic loss. In the 2009-2010 flu season there was a 125 reported of GBS and 64 were verified to be caused by the flu shot. There were 268 reports of Anaphylaxis and 115 were verified to be caused by the flu shot. The vaccine injury court had 433 injuries filed and 26 deaths=459 claims. 144 were compensated, 43 were dismissed and 272 had pending claims. The average for claims filed that get some kind of compensation is 25%. The vaccine court looks for ways not to admit vaccine(s) caused the injuries and tries every way possible to dismiss every case so as not to openly admit that vaccines do cause death and damage..
The cost for one vaccine induced disease (GBS) in a 2004 Study in Neurology, The Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology stated that “it costs the U.S., 1.7 billion a year to take care of these GBS patients or $319,000/patient due to vaccine induced GBS and most of the indirect costs were due to premature deaths.” If the government & Pharmaceuticals reached their goal of 100% vaccination in the world with 7 billion people that would come out to 1.6/1,000,000 vaccine induced GBS x 7 Billion = 11,200 cases x $319,000 = $3,572,800,000 health care dollars.
Adverse Reactions to the Flu Shot:
A. Painful abscesses, nodules, ulcers, draining lymph nodes.
B. Flu like symptoms – Induction of fever, muscle and joint pain and headaches. This is a aha moment!! It sounds like the symptoms of Flu! Again pointing out that there is no way to assess or measure if the virus is dead.
C. Anaphylaxis(shock), Hives, Vasculitis, Systemic toxicity to tissues and organs
D. Immune suppression leaving you more susceptible to acquiring disease.
E. Induction of autoimmune arthritis and other autoimmune disorders
F. Carcenogenesis (causing cancer),
G. Teratogenesis (associated with birth defects) and Abortogenesis (causing abortions)
H. Local or acute inflammation including encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) causing all types of neurological disease including autistic Spectrum Disorders (ASD)
Reference: Expert Review of Vaccines in 2003: Kenney RT, Edleman, R. “Survey of human-use adjuvants.” Expert Review of Vaccines, (2003) p. 171
I am not sure you understand how ridiculous it is to think that 99% of research scientists, doctors, professors, chemists, nurses, epidemiologist, etc are just lying in every country in the world and somehow getting paid by someone when there isn’t enough money involved to pay off all those people. Talk about blindly following the crowd.
We know it’s true. Look up ‘faked studies and paid doctors to put their names on them’ for a starter. The #CDCwhistleblower confirms what many doctors and scientists have been trying to warn us about. Even Salk testified his vaccine actually caused the disease. Go to Vaccine Liberation and see uncountable numbers of wise voices, doctors and scientists, etc., telling it like it is.
And yes. The top tier of scientist etc. are paid to lie & all else either believe the fake studies or go along with them for their pensions & so forth. Out of fear. No secret. Many have woke up & are joining the moral side of this war waged against children & posterity. Too much real science now for the cat to go back in the bag. Cover up is over & criminals behind it need rounded up.
“The #CDCwhistleblower confirms what many doctors and scientists have been trying to warn us about.”
Yes, Hooker’s paper was retracted because not only did he not disclose his conflicts of interests including his position on “Autism Focus”, but also his botched statistics, and not to mention he illegally recorded the phone calls with Thompson (without his consent):
Thank you!
The profits from the vaccines themselves may be minimal (Idk for a fact) but what about all the drugs they offer for the 1001Ailments that have become popular in the last 20 year’s, whose ads spam every channel. The list of side effects are longer and sometimes worse than the disease itself. Don’t trust these people. Get a strong, natural immunity the way nature intended.
“Get a strong, natural immunity the way nature intended.”
How? Explain clearly how one would do this without actually getting sick from a disease, and do include verifiable documentation that it would really really work.
For instance, how would you have saved the three babies in California who died from pertussis this year? See: California’s pertussis epidemic escalates, health officials report.
The way the body develops a strong immune system is by feeding it the proper food. Most of the food you buy in the store these days isn’t proper food because it’s produced using gmo growth hormones and sprayed with poison to kill the bugs. And that, sadly, isn’t the half of it. If the mothers of those children were using any form of pharmaceutical medication, chances are that wasn’t helping either. So, assuming they were educated enough to breast feed their child, their milk would have been severely lacking due to poor nutrition due to consuming “un-food” and possibly using medications. Thus the mother’s immune system isn’t as strong as it should be and that weakness is transferred to the child. And yes, everything I’m saying is backed by hard evidence provided for us by very qualified scientists and doctors; some of whom actually worked for corporations such as Monsanto. We don’t need vaccines, we need people to become informed of the truth about what’s in the food they’re eating. .
I suspect that you are not capable of explaining in detail how “the proper food” “develops a strong immune system”; I doubt you could even describe in technical detail what physical properties differ between “proper food” and “un-food”, how “pharmaceutical medication” actually weakens children, what nutrients are missing from the milk of mothers who eat GMO food, or any other specific facts that would tend to justify your conclusion.
You seem to be using these words and phrases as a kind of magic mantra. But your gut feeling that foods you don’t think feel “natural” undermine the immune system is just that: a gut feeling. Announcing that it’s “backed by hard evidence” does not make it so.
What company do you work for? Who Says There is No Money in Making Vaccines? At Least $5.7 Billion Given to Vaccine Manufacturers in 2011 by US Gov’t. http://vactruth.com/2012/11/30/2011-billions-vaccine-manufacturers/
Why? I actually do not work because I am spending my time trying to get services like supported housing for my adult son who was injured with an actual disease. This is why I want you to give me the relative costs of the vaccines versus treating the diseases. And do provide something that is more verifiable than the less than adequate sputterings of Jeffry John Aufderheide. A real verifiable economic analysis from someone who knows what they are doing like:
Pediatrics. 2014 Apr;133(4):577-85.
Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009.
69 vaccine induced polio cases
50,000 pre-vaccine cases, USA 1952
Hmmmm. Which looks like a better deal?!
None if your ‘re one of the 69
That is horrible logic, Michelle, and you should be ashamed.
(it’s “you’re”, by the way)
Even less if you are one of the 50,000
Mike Adams is not a doctor, nor does he have any formal training. He is an AIDS denialist. He is considered by doctors and scientists to be a spreader of pseudoscience. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaturalNews
Another troll, paid for in blood, the lives of vaccinated children.
Simple-minded food-worshipping naturopath shill. Why do you spread lies about safe and effective vaccines? How much are they paying you? You whore yourself out like a common prostitute and terrify parents into letting their kids sicken and die from measles and meningitis so you can sell them untested potions and useless homeopathic paste instead. You are a fraud and a liar, and the cost of your lies is incalculable.
How the hell do you live with yourself?
(FYI – The “Shill” accusation can always be flung in BOTH directions, shill).
You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
How do you spend blood, though? I’m pretty sure my local grocery store doesn’t accept it. Blizzard might, though. My friend has been asking me to get back into WoW.
And all such article son wikipedia is controlled by the pseudo-sceptics, as report after report has proven. NOT a reliable source for anything controverisal.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, no scientific study has found a link between vaccines and autism. Technically correct. Kinda lying by omission. Vaccines can cause encephalitis and encephalitis can cause autism. Ask your cranky baby if he or she knows they had a bout of encephalitis.
Just look around to see what know it all science is doing to our planet and now our children with vaccines. Think of all the unnecessary hysterectomies, mastectomies, and prostate surgeries.
Do you get it? The processes of the human body are so complex, so interdependent, that entered drugs and vaccines are time bombs.
We are chemical beings. The chemicals we need are sorted and distributed from the food we eat and the air we breath. Chemicals, such as aluminum adjuvants in vaccines, put into the body directly have no purpose and are basically left to their own devices.
I doubt if 1 doctor in a 1000 has vaccinated his child in the past 5 years. A count of doctor’s children that became autistic in the past 5 years would break the vaccine bubble once and for all.
A very telling aspect of this “controversy” is that the vaccination victims are concerned and polite and the pro vaxers are angry and nasty.
Remember the origin of the military grade anthrax that was sent to Tom Daschlel? http://www.commondreams.org/headlines.shtml… Take a guess where these childhood disease outbreaks come from.
People don’t connect the omniscient godlike portrayal of doctors on television with medicine for profit. It’s time they should.
Michael,
I am glad to burst your little bubble. My niece, an emergency room physician in a children’s hospital, has most definitely had her child vaccinated within the last 5 years — as he is fully vaccinated and 6 years old. Her sister and brother-in-law — the brother-in-law being also a physician — have had all 3 of their children, the oldest being in kindergarten, fully vaccinated as appropriate for their ages. Every physician I’ve ever, as a nurse, trusted, has had his or her children fully vaccinated. I wouldn’t trust a physician who wouldn’t vaccinate those he/she loves (unless medically contraindicated due to immune disorders or allergies) to provide competent, much less good, care to me or mine. What amazes me is how many parents are willing to risk encephalitis, sterility, blindness, etc. in their children by exposing them to the risks of measles or mumps. And any woman of childbearing age, not known to be immune to rubella (German measles) who might, possibly, under any circumstances be pregnant, would be insane to go out in public and risk exposure to rubella. Especially if contracted within the first 3 months of pregnancy, rubella can cause severe birth defects and developmental delays. Hospitals will not allow a nurse, a student nurse, a physician, a medical student, any person subject to screening by the hospital (that is, anyone other than a patient or visitor) near areas in the hospital where pregnant women congregate for care, classes, or whatever, unless that person has a lab test result on file proving immunity to rubella. Well, an chicken pox (varicella), and measles. They won’t risk inadvertent exposures that can be prevented with this simple measure. If you have a religious objection to vaccinations you can attend public schools, but you can’t work in most hospitals.
And, PLEASE, before you start another screed about big pharma — big pharma is a big problem in the USA — but a remarkably minor or non-existent problem in most 3rd world countries where there are no profits to be made on vaccines — but where vaccines save countless lives every year.
If you want popular, medical, nursing, or public health (ie, not written by doctors or nurses but written by persons with advanced degrees in epidemiology and similar sciences) literature references to support what I’ve said, please post a reply here on Jennifer’s blog and I’ll assemble the requested information. Do not expect me to trust the science knowledge of someone who has spent few if any hours at the college and graduate school levels studying that part of science on which he/she is opining. Brilliance in one area of knowledge or in one part of life doesn’t not imply even competence in another, even in a related, area of science or life. And common sense, in science, is only found in people who’ve done a great deal of studying in that science. If you doubt that, try applying your common sense to explaining quantum mechanics and photosynthesis — both, not one or the other, please.
Americans, us Baby Boomers, did very well without this vaccine madness. I have plenty of common sense. I see the TV ads for a plethera of wonder drugs and their horrific accompanying side effects and I understand vaccines are nothing more than drugs called vaccines.. When you figure out where vaccine residue winds up and tell me which vaccines the Merck Manual Home Health Handbook is referring to that can cause encephalitis you just may get my attention.
“And common sense, in science, is only found in people who’ve done a great deal of studying in that science.”
You seemed to have let that boat sail.
Speaking of horrors did you read about the idiots who wanted to have anthrax vaccine study done on babies? Did you read about the soldiers who were killed/maimed by anthrax vaccine? Or the young women who were killed/maimed by Gardasil?
Michael, I was born in 1947 — how about you?
My FB picture is there for all to see. Are you calling shotgun or seniority? Hancock330 what happened to the topic? “Speaking of horrors did you read about the idiots who wanted to have anthrax vaccine study done on babies? Did you read about the soldiers who were killed/maimed by anthrax vaccine? Or the young women who were killed/maimed by Gardasil?”
“Americans, us Baby Boomers, did very well without this vaccine madness.”
The ones who survived did! The ones who died aren’t around to talk about it, are they? Fucking dunce.
Perfect example of the pro vaccine people mentioned here, Shank. Mean & nasty. Why is that? Always eager to parrot the deception they beLIEve in. If they really do. Some don’t but swear by vaccines for profit. It is all coming out in the wash.
“Some don’t but swear by vaccines for profit.”
I am very curious about this. Are you expecting a company to sell its products at a loss?
Also, if we decided to shut down all vaccine manufacturing, would that save any money? So if we go back to the way it was fifty years ago when every child caught measles before turning fifteen, how much would be saved? Since about one in ten who get measles end up in the hospital for things like pneumonia and encephalitis (which is what happened in the Wales measles outbreak not too long ago), would that cost less than providing each child with two MMR doses?
By the way, one dose of MMR costs about $20 through the Vaccine for Children Program, so that is forty dollars per child (or a bit over a hundred in the private practice. Hospital costs are usually in the over ten thousand dollar range, so if one in ten is treated, that works out about to at least a thousand dollars average per child. Lots of it going to pharmaceutical medications.
To me it seems like vaccines provide less profits to Big Pharma than treating the diseases. But you must have some other real data. Please provide the economic data showing that treating a disease is more cost effective than preventing it. Something that is comparable in quality, but refutes Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009. Thank you in advance.
Your generation also grew up with tobacco smoke permeating every building and environment in existence, I suppose you “did just fine” with the effects of that, too.
1952: 3000 polio deaths in the USA.
Where’s you borrow the picture of the old guy. I mean, I’d figure it was dementia except the short-term memory goes first, the long-term remains.
Hancock330. You are saying because of 4 children you know that are vaccinated that vaccines are safe? An article in JAMA estimated that 1:4000 will experience an adverse reaction, a lot more than the one in millions that are quoted or written.
Reference: JAMA, June 19, 1999 vol. 281, no.21, pg.2132
So far those children are very fortunate. I would never gamble with my children’s health or lives once I was fully informed. This means you actually explore and research the other side of vaccination without prejudice. There are plenty of experts in the same fields that you want to believe in and most of the research backs up the anti-vaxxers as people on your side of the belief system call us. I wonder if you will have the foresight to connect any allergy, autoimmune diseases, or any other illness to vaccination in the future with these children or if you will be like the medical community and automatically write it off as the children being defective. How about noticing how much sicker they may become compared to their non-vaccinated counter parts. Bet you did not know that an allergy or autoimmune disease can occur up to 7 years after their last vaccine. You are using your family because they are in the medical field, the same field that is taught by the pharmaceuticals and are the puppets of the government and corporations and have lost most critical thinking skills and we should take comfort in knowing this? What is your point? Dr. OZ who is well known and trained by the same medical mafia system does not vaccinated his children but recommends that everyone else receive vaccinations with his hysterics about a 2009 pandemic that never occurred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrBvh7EumNo. Does he know something that all you pro-vaxxers do not know? A little education would open your mind to the truth. Parroting what you have been told and what you have heard does not make it truthful or factual.
I will use one of many examples of the lies from the CDC and FDA that gullible people swallow hook line and sinker and than parrot what they are told or heard prove it completely false.
The below is taken straight from the CDC website
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm
MISCONCEPTION #2. The majority of people who get disease have been vaccinated.
This is another argument frequently found in anti-vaccine literature – the implication being that this proves vaccines are not effective. In fact it is true that in an outbreak those who have been vaccinated often outnumber those who have not – even with vaccines such as measles, which we know to be about 98% effective when used as recommended.
This is explained by two factors. No vaccine is 100% effective. Most routine childhood vaccines are effective for 85% to 95% of recipients. For reasons related to the individual, some will not develop immunity. The second fact is that in a country such as the United States the people who have been vaccinated vastly outnumber those who have not. Here’s a hypothetical example of how these two factors work together.
In a high school of 1,000 students, none has ever had measles. All but 5 of the students have had two doses of measles vaccine, and so are fully immunized. The entire student body is exposed to measles, and every susceptible student becomes infected. The 5 unvaccinated students will be infected, of course. But of the 995 who have been vaccinated, we would expect several not to respond to the vaccine. The efficacy rate for two doses of measles vaccine can be higher than 99%. In this class, 7 students do not respond, and they, too, become infected. Therefore 7 of 12, or about 58%, of the cases occur in students who have been fully vaccinated.
As you can see, this doesn’t prove the vaccine didn’t work – only that most of the children in the class had been vaccinated, so those who were vaccinated and did not respond outnumbered those who had not been vaccinated. Looking at it another way, 100% of the children who had not been vaccinated got measles, compared with less than 1% of those who had been vaccinated. Measles vaccine protected most of the class; if nobody in the class had been vaccinated, there would probably have been 1,000 cases of measles.
1. The CDC admits that 5%-15% (average of 10%) of Pt’s receiving the vaccine will not develop an antibody. The CDC’s and FDA’s goal is to reach a vaccination rate of 95% for their fictitious herd immunity concept. So if everyone is vaccinated that means only 90% may develop an antibody, far short of their 95% goal and their herd immunity goal
2. The CDC admits those that are vaccinated and contract the diseases often outnumber those that contract the diseases and have not been vaccinated and says that the MMR is 98% effective. Maybe, only in producing antibodies and not provoding protection from the disease as the bottom links verify.
WHY DO THE PT’S WHO ARE VACCINATED CONTRACT THE DISEASE IF THE VACCINE IS SUPPOSE TO PREVENTS THEM FROM CONTRACTING THE DISEASE? THIS QUESTION IS NEVER ADDRESSES. IT IS WHITE WASHED AND IGNORED AS THE ABOVE CDC STATEMENT DID.
A. Measles Vaccines Part I; Ineffectiveness of Vaccination and Unintended Consequences. ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/18/the-ineffectiveness-of-measles-vaccines-and-other-unintended-consequences-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/#sthash.IkN1s6jA.dpuf
B. Measles Vaccines Part II; Benefits of Contracting Measles ~ by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD) – See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/#sthash.TAutcPvL.dpuf
A necessary tutorial on the immune system so that you will understand why vaccines do not protect us from disease
A. http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/06/10/basics-of-the-human-immune-system-prior-to-introduction-of-vaccines-are-vaccines-turning-our-children%E2%80%99s-immune-systems-inside-out/
B. http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/06/21/risks-damage-basics-of-the-human-immune-system-prior-to-introduction-of-vaccines-are-vaccines-turning-our-childrens-immune-systems-inside-out-part-2/
READ THE ARTICLES AND LISTEN TO THE SHORT VIDEOS THAT BLATANTLY DISPROVES THEIR LIES TO THE MASSES
short videos of recent outbreaks within the the vaccinated (not protected as advertised) and caused by the vaccinated.
A. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2014/03/31/new-york-measles-outbreak-90-vaccinated/
B. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2014/04/03/ohio-mumps-outbreak-97-vaccinated/
C. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2014/03/25/mumps-outbreak-involves-highly-vaccinated-students/
D. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2014/01/31/cfr-council-on-fake-realities-vaccine-created-outbreaks-map/
E. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2014/04/04/fda-vaccine-insert-lists-autism-as-adverse-reaction/
F. http://experimentalvaccines.org/2013/10/09/91-fully-vaccinated-involved-in-pertussis-outbreak/
G, 17 more vaccine failures
H. http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/23/measles-outbreak-traced-to-fully-vaccinated-patient-for-first-time/
After over 1,000 hours of research on my own I was compelled to create a source of factual information for those who want to learn more about the who, what, why and how of vaccination and become fully informed with a purpose to encourage independent research and not parrot what someone has heard all of their lives.
Sorry, was there a mistake in your original citation? I looked it up and it doesn’t exist. No. 21 was published June 2nd. Page 2132 was in No. 22 issued June 9th and has nothing to do with what you’re referring to. Perhaps you could clarify?
“I doubt if 1 doctor in a 1000 has vaccinated his child in the past 5 years.”
I doubt if the handful of brain cells you have to rub together are in any way interconnected. Vaccines work, period. That’s why we don’t see kids with calipers on their legs or skins ravaged by smallpox anymore.
I’ll bet that you haven’t vaccinated any of your own children, but exposed them to unnecessary and serious risk from totally preventable diseases such as measles and mumps. Diseases that could kill them. However, if they end up as silly and shrill as you, they won’t be a great loss to humanity, and I can’t think of a simpler or more effective way of chlorinating the gene pool.
I concur. Angry pro-vaxers are rampant and a disgrace, hiding behind computer screens to heave their vile opinions. With a lack of civility, it’s any wonder why pro-vaxers have a difficult time recruiting anti-vaxers to believe their propagated stance. The human race is surly to eliminate itself if people keep making uninformed decisions about their family’s health care and lifestyle.
Please tell where I have not been civil.
Please correct how I am uninformed by providing the PubMed indexed studies by qualified reputable researchers showing any vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the actual disease. For instance, since measles causes encephalitis in one out of a thousand cases, provide the studies showing the MMR used in the USA since 1970s has caused similar harm at least in one out of a thousand doses.
Thank you in advance.
Is that one study there? Or are there more? And I would also like to take a gander that if there is more articles supporting your side, the amount that go against it is staggering. Overall, if you use this scientific research to prove your point, then you must accept the 99% of other research that tells you that you’re wrong. Everyone besides the few in the article you mentioned know that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the dangers.
“Everyone besides the few in the article you mentioned know that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the dangers.”
What article have I mentioned? I am asking for scientific studies from “Provaxers are a disgrace”, since he/she did not provide any data.
On the money syerodriguez. Measles is a rash and a fever. It is not a deadly disease. Nor are the overwhelming majority of diseases on the vaccine “schedule.” If you neglect a sick child or anyone who has a normally mild disease he or she could die.
Measles most certainly can be a danger disease. Part of your ignorance may stem from how effective vaccination has been in preventing it completely as well as moderating the severity for those who do contract it. Measles can cause the very encephalitis with greater frequency by far than vaccination but you carefully omit that. It can cause blindness, deafness and, yes, death.
Since I was unfortunate enough to be born too soon for the vaccines, I had all of what were then called the usual childhood diseases. I had measles in first grade and clearly remember how sick I was nearly sixty years later. My fever was very high and they considered hospitalization. Before the rash in the prodrome I was violently nauseated and vomited repeatedly. My little body hurt all over and I was confined to a darkened room for more than a week. And that was a normal case, not an unusually severe one.
Every time we had a thunderstorm in my hometown most of us worried about the young woman in the house on the hill who depended on an iron lung as a result of polio. A power failure meant she would die if no one could manually crank it. A close friend went through dozens of surgeries for polio damage and in middle age developed post polio syndrome.
I’ve watched a young cancer patient endure the added pain of whooping cough caught from an unvaccinated relative with “religious” objections to immunization. I’ve been through the misery of shingles because I’ve had now preventable chicken pox. And I’ve t as taken the shingles vaccine in hopes of having it again.
In truth, I really don’t care what the excuse for your criminally ignorant opposition to vaccine is, what I care about is the truth and the safety and health of all.
My sister died of measles. It can be a deadly disease. Please check your facts.
Your Dragon’s Breath, Eye Of Newt, Lavender, Eucalyptus, Goldenseal potion will not save you, bring you peace, or change the disease for which you take it for..
I love the hypocrisy of “Naturalists”.. You’ll shop at Whole Foods while stopping to put gas in your car.. You’ll push your nose up at medical science while popping Tylenol for your headache after your Lavender oil refuses to work of course..
You can’t even agree to disagree.. If you want to live your hypocrite lifestyle then I will fight to the death for your RIGHT to do so.. I wish more for you and your families then dying by preventable situations, but if you don’t agree? Then I wish you the best and hope you get it before anything gets you..
But you WILL NOT do the same.. We have NO RIGHTS as long as we believe that modern medicine might be ok.. Us who believe in giving ourselves what we consider the best chance at safety..
Of course healthy eating has an affect on you.. We as Americans (particularly low to no income) eat horrible diets. So anything that brings more nutrients is going to have an affect.. That’s not ever in question.. What IS in question is the fact that having proper nutrition may keep you from getting a common cold or some types of flu’s however.. And a BIG however.. There are some diseases which do not care how Crunchy Organic you are.. And those of us who are old enough to have family or experienced the fallout from horrible diseases.. We know why they’re coming back and how they will destroy a large percentage of lives..
Again.. I get it.. You’re going to cite your conspiracy theory blogs and angry citizen websites to support your claims. You’ll disregard any form of medical science in favor of “Expert Mommies” websites and rhetoric.. And I’m ok with that because it’s your RIGHT to believe your truth as you see fit..
Can you do the same? Can you fight for OUR RIGHT to disagree with your choices? Can you fight to the death OUR RIGHT to see validity in medical science?
Holy shit. She already addressed all of your points in the piece. And Jesus Christ God Almighty. You’re telling me it’s all one huge conspiracy? And to read some internet site instead of scientific literature?! Do you understand the kool aid you have drank. This is insanity. The author IS educated, has provided nothing but education to easily and clearly debunk everything you are saying. You simply do not want to accept it.
I am still undecided about vaccines, because I have access to a lot of whistleblower articles and it seems to me that most of the doctors that approve all get their information from the same source which has been in the past 10 years severely corrupted…I think Vaccines USED to be safe.
Look, they’re just now finding out that we’ve been lied to all these years about flouridation in the water and millions of dentists swore by it (Now Australia has banned it so stop thinking US GOVT thinks about your safety) So think about that for a second and really let it sink in. All I am doing here is playing Devil’s Advocate while I do my own research and decide for myself what I’m going to do…See, I have 3 girls. One is 15, Fully vaccinated and no issues. One is 10. The timeline with the US Govt influence in freedom, economic collapse, etc…. Is around when my 10 year old was getting her vaccines…I suspect she has Aspergers Syndrome, which hasn’t even started developing as a disorder until recently. I have VERY good genes, I was a surrogate for twins – have never been unhealthy as a child but my 10 year old fell behind in her shots due to Hurricane Katrina, so she got a couple at the same time. I don’t think I am willing to take these risks with my newborn, I don’t trust the vaccines put out on the market now. I think what used to be safe is now used as a weapon, I think they’re also doing that with our food, our education, and our military. Look up the Petro dollar, Look up Mk Ultra, Look up Brics, realize that Rockefellar funded BOTH sides of the German war and was essentially the mastermind behind Hitler, and he governs US policies now. Please, it CAN be all one big conspiracy, the Jewish citizens of Germany didn’t think anything bad was going to happen to them and the Nazi’s were all fed propaganda for YEARS- that is what Assange, Snowden and Manning all went out on a limb to expose. Not saying I know what’s true, but if you start looking at all of the exposures, you start to see a very real and scary pattern.
Ironically, the “CDC Whistleblower” is NOT undecided about vaccines. He clearly, unambiguously and specifically wrote:
“I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives. I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated with their administration are vastly outweighed by their individual and societal benefits.”
(And he wrote it with the protection of his own whistleblower lawyers, on their site, where no one else could control or influence his words.)
Where on earth did you get the idea that Australia has banned fluoridation? Or a “timeline” for “economic collapse”?
Ah–well, by the time we get to the bottom of your comment, we’ve hit vaccines, fluoridation, US government plotting economic collapse, the Rockefellers plotting the Holocaust, and CIA mind control.
You say that you see a very scary pattern, but please consider the possibility that the pattern you see is all in your head.
Australia hasn’t banned fluoride in water. Where did you get that from?
Plus what do you mean by ‘VERY good genes’ with respect to Aspergers Syndrome and Autism? Do your genes enable you to combat every environmental stimulus that may contribute to the foundation of this spectrum condition?
Actually, pharmaceutical companies make very little money on vaccines. Drugs like beta blockers and statins are much more profitable, since they tend to be required for life.
” I suggest you have a look at some of the articles on NaturalNews.com by Mike Adams about Vaccines.”
Yeah, and then I’ll read some equally informative articles from the Discovery Institute about evolution.
“Doctors are great for emergency surgery, but natural health education, and simply treating your body with respect will keep you more healthy than a vaccine will. Ever notice that most people getting the diseases there are vaccines for, are the ones who’ve taken the vaccines?”
Would you kindly explain why there is no more smallpox in the world any more? Was it because of people ‘treating their body with respect’? Or was it because of mass immunization programs? And then you go on to say “Unfortunate to see people give up their responsibility for themselves and their health..” What a hypocrite. Those who refuse to be vaccinated but instead like to ‘naturally exercise’ their immune systems are simply freeloading off the herd immunity of the vaccinated majority.
You’re stupid, but not stupid enough not to spread dangerous falsehoods.
“Ever notice that most people getting the diseases there are vaccines for, are the ones who’ve taken the vaccines?”
You should do some reading yourself. Recent outbreaks of measles and whooping cough are occurring in UNVACCINATED populations. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Either a troll, or incredibly stupid. ‘I suggest you have a look at some of the articles on NaturalNews.com…’ LOL!
Educated people vaccinate their children. You, on the other hand, are an ignorant zealot who only believes pseudo-scientific hogwash. There is NO link between vaccination and autism, that study has been refuted a dozen times or more. Vaccines account for less than 3% of the profits of pharmaceutical companies – they would make far more by letting kids get sick and then treating the diseases. My Doctor does not “keep me healthy”, he treats me when I’m sick. Pediatricians are charged with the health of children, and part of their job is administering vaccinations so that children don’t DIE from preventable illnesses.
I suggest that YOU get “educated BROADLY”, because right now you are just a fountain of dangerous misinformation.
You prove your ignorance by not knowing the difference between blogs and opinions versus peer reviewed evidence. Anyone can write a book or post a blog, but science is the objective standard by which these decisions should be made on. Making an important decision based on anything a .com website says is insane! Why can’t anti-vaxers post any high-quality, peer reviewed evidence to prove their claims have any truth? 1) They have no clue how research works or how to interpret it. 2) No one with an advanced degree in science is still ignorant enough to believe all the false info this silly campaign perpetuates. 3) Studies have been done over and over again proving the opposite of their lies…. So it will not be possible (short of pulling a Wakefield and falsifying evidence) to repeat a study and get different results. But if anti-vaxers were to ever find a way to stop quoting blogs and opinions as “truth” and provide quality evidence, perhaps the world would stop laughing at them and listen.
Natural News is the most anti-science website on the internet. Congratulations on shilling for a lunatic.
Some people think they know everything but have never read 1 vaccine insert …etc ! Yet could never handle the truth about vaccine side effects and ineffectiveness…https://sites.google.com/site/vaccineillusion/whooping-cough
If you rant and yell like a crazy person than you deserve to get treated like one.
The blog was very interesting. There are many diseases that they experience such as colds, bronchiolitis, or croup though these are quieter in that age but very difficult to avoid. Some others in these are ear infections, sinusitis, impetigo which is probably known as Skin infection and conjunctivitis. The best thing that most of us follow to control these diseases in children in early stages is using Vaccines- has been incredibly effective in preventing childhood diseases and improving child mortality rates. These vaccine fights against many diseases in children if provided whenever necessary.
You sure seem to like the phrase “Peer reviewed”. Lemmings are peers also.
Lemmings don’t have doctorates and subject matter expertise.
“You sure seem to like the phrase “Peer reviewed”. Lemmings are peers also.”
Lemmings also don’t actually commit mass suicide – that’s a falsehood, just like anti-vaccination pseudoscience.
People who have subject matter expertise don’t usually rely so heavily on buzzwords.
What’s your point, exactly? First you compare researcher scientists to “lemmings”, now you’re complaining about the tone of this post? I deliberately write in a non-formal voice here because this is a blog, not a scientific journal. Do you know the difference?
You are a fear mongering hypocrite. You claim objectivity and yet you resort to insulting language. You are a fraud on every level.
This is an extremely serious issue–people’s health and lives are at stake. And you want to be flippant and resort to ad hominen attacks? You might find this kind of argument style personally satisfying, but I think the issues demand more serious treatment than what you offer. Come back when you are prepared to discuss the research.
You talk and talk about peer reviews and then make the claim that non-vaccinators are spreading measles. That is not science but dangerous propaganda and moves us closer to a day were vaccinations for non-lethal diseases will be mandatory. If you are indeed a scientist then you should hang your head in shame.
I do talk about peer review, because that’s the standard of quality control in scientific studies. What standard do you use?
Non-vaccinators are spreading measles. If you don’t trust peer-reviewed studies on the subject (I’ve included links to many in my post above), what about a few news reports from the last few days?
Here’s one from CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-outbreak-in-new-york-city-health-officials-warn/
And here’s one from ABC: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/san-francisco-commuters-warned-measles-bart/story?id=22521724
What on earth leads you to believe that measles can’t be lethal? Data, please!
Oh, and you can verify whether or not I’m a scientist from my CV, which shows my education and research output. It’s linked to in the “About me” section. Who are you? What are your qualifications?
Jennifer Raff you are a purveyor of horse shit. You cannot think critically and can only repeat the phrase peer reviewed study over and over again. Stop taking refuge in your completely corrupted institutions and media outlets. There is no such thing as safe in science. There is cause and effect. If you want immunization for a nonlethal illness you will have to put up with some side effects. Scientists do not speak in absolutes, they present the results that support the hypothesis and the tolerance for error. Do you know what a tolerance is? If you are a scientist, you are the worst scientist I have ever seen. Take down this obscene web siten
Hey there, Anonymous! We seem to be talking in circles, and you’re not adding anything to this discussion beyond name-calling (which is in express violation of my comments policy). I’ve asked you several times to provide something–anything!–to back up your criticisms, and you’ve been unable to do so. However, I’ll respond to a few of your points:
1. “Stop taking refuge in your completely corrupted institutions and media outlets.” Do you mean that there’s a conspiracy between every single scientist, physician, and reporter who has written about vaccines? To what end? That’s a bit farfetched, don’t you think? If you’re going to make accusations like that, it would help if you brought along some evidence.
2. “There’s no such thing as safe in science. There is cause and effect.” Exactly right. Those peer reviewed studies that seem so abhorrent to you are designed to actually measure what causes particular effects (For example: do vaccines cause autism?).
3. “If you want immunization for a nonlethal illness you will have to put up with some side effects.” It’s true that vaccines cause some side effects in some individuals. You get a pamphlet with each shot that describes what they might be. I’m not sure what your point is here–nobody is arguing that there aren’t some side effects to vaccines. Just that autism isn’t one of them. Usually it’s more like muscle soreness and redness and/or fatigue for a day or two.
Oh and again, what do you mean by nonlethal illnesses? I’ve asked you this before. You seem to think that measles isn’t lethal, which is tragically false. Do you think that the flu isn’t lethal? Polio? Where are you getting your information?
4. “Scientists do not speak in absolutes, they present the results that support the hypothesis and the tolerance for error.” Again, correct. And yes, I know what ‘a tolerance’ is. Better than you do, I suspect, based on your descriptions here.
Since you haven’t brought anything of substance to this conversation despite repeated requests, I’m forced to conclude that you’re just a not-particularly-interesting troll. If you don’t like my website, you’re absolutely welcome to avoid reading it. We’re done here.
Whereas you won’t even reveal your true identity so that your credentials and qualifications can be examined. What you are is a troll and an idiot. Jennifer Raff, I urge you to waste no more time on this moron.
and u just made ur self a hypocrit, as u have all ready criticized her for using corse words
The bodily processes of a human being or any creature are extremely precise. The epitome of flippancy and arrogance is to think bodily processes can manipulated with vaccines 49 times before a child is 6 years old without consequence to the child’s well being. Maybe you can explain that arrogance along with what happens to the vaccine residue.
Urm, I think you may have a misunderstanding of what Peer-Reviewed means.
It’s not a self congratulatory circle of snobs who just repeat whatever one of them had decided earlier.
The First, Major part of peer review, which usually takes place between the publisher and the research team, is about presentation, Clarity, Validity, and relevance.
This can go on for a year, with the publisher’s in house people requesting clarification after clarification.
-Then it’s published, (success! Right?)
Wrong.
You can bet your boots that as soon as anything a) New. b) Contrary to the current models, c) Connecting two, previously unrelated systems
Comes out, there’s about 50 different research teams just waiting to tear it to pieces, or confirm the findings. It’s always more exciting to show the present models to be wrong than to reconfirm the current understanding. But this means every piece of peer reviewed work on anything more interesting than monkey snot (Yes, people research that) will have hundreds, if not thousands of repetitions of the experiment done.
-So, it’s done now?
Not quite.
Now come the letters. Oh my yes.
Clarifications. Corrections. Amendments. Argument over aspects of the method. Suggestions for continuations to the experiment.
Guess what? These mean you have to *Do the experiment again* This time without the slight mistakes from last time.
-You mean it never ends? You can’t sit back when you’re done?
Pretty much. Yes. Science doesn’t stop. There’s always more to understand. Always.
So please. Enough with the derision of peer reviewed articles.
I don’t follow “Peer Review” as a catchall codeword. I trust it because I know exactly what it entails.
When a research team is published in Elsivier (A high calibre biomedical journal), with an unbiased, repeatable method that shows vaccines do more harm than good, and that research stands un-refuted, the scientific community will do a collective double take, and change their tune in short order.
It’s just that, so far, the overwhelming majority of research concludes otherwise.
autism. The NVICP is clearly on the side of science on that question, and acknowledges that the evidence does not support a link between vaccination and autism. If those plaintiffs could kill the NVICP and get back into normal trial courts, they would a pet shop, dog supplies
This spam bot is actually a little interesting
Very nice! dbddkfaceb
I find it funny that pro vaccine pushers always say that there’s no studies or evidence and that all people against vaccines are uneducated and don’t understand science. Well here a few links from government studies and etc…speaking against vaccines. I can list studies all day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170
Click to access tomljenovic%202011.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2013/801517/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145534
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/6/1611.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14745455
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15527868
http://jcn.sagepub.com/content/22/11/1308.abstract
Oh so you’ve read all of these? You’ve paid the hundreds of dollars it costs to use PubMed? Every single one of these has no option for full text. How are we supposed to know what any of the findings are? Every study sets out with a particular hypothesis, primary outcomes, and secondary outcomes it would like to see. Then the research either supports it or it doesn’t. Since we can’t read any of these in full text how are we supposed to know what the findings were? For all we know all of these studies negated their hypotheses.
The fact that there is no full text option is a clear indication of the quality of the work. Anyone can start a “peer reviewed ” boutique journal !
I don’t pay hundreds of dollars to pub med… i pay thousands to my university and am blessed with the right to access the thousands of scholarly online journals such as pubmed… which my institution pays millions for…..
ohh.. and what about all of the doctors and nurses and immunologists etc that are against vaccines??
I suppose they are just too dumb and looking to start controversy, despite their stellar academic credentials…. yes they are purposely ignoring an “obvious” truth simply to get harassed by all you donkeys who blindly believe that vaccines are “safe and effective”…
It’s hard to communicate with people who are clearly so biased…. My parents were for vaccines, they still are… neither of them are scientists…. I took a biomedical science degree and found many PEER REVIEWED studies questioning both the saftey and efficacy of vaccines.
To be sure, these studies are not the MAJORITY.. However as Einstein, Copernicus, Galileo and other brave scientists have unequivically shown… MAJORITY does not mean they are right… In fact, it an an age old fallacy that to assume because a majority of people support or believe something, it is therefore correct… Aritstotle so aptly pointed that obvious fact out… He’s be sad to see how stupid the average person is…
The majority of doctors used to say cigarettes were safe and EFFECTIVE as treatment for some ailments hahahahha… but no… had nothing to do with industry funding… and all the drugs and vaccines… nope has nothing to to do with industry funding… clearly everyone is much HEALTHIER today thanks to all the drugs!!
And to the idiots who keep pointing out how many people died of polio in 1952…. ok that’s a number…. did you look at how many people died in the 40’s from it? the 30’s?
IF you were responsible in your research and unbiased… you would want to look at a time series… which I have…. Polio mortality and morbidity rates fell dramatically in the preceeding 20 years BEFORE the vaccine was introduced….. so what caused that??
Ever hear of Scarlett fever?? no vaccine for it in this country…. but it also went from very high rates in the early part of teh century to essentially 0…. but there was no vaccine…. Some countries who used the scarlet fever vaccine had the same TREND..
You people really are stupid…. and you want what? to try and force people or shame them who know the shit you are talking is just that??
go get you kid injected….. has *nothing* to do with the raise in neuroligcal and other chronic conditions plaging society…. funny though… since you all like correlational data soo much…. seems like more cancer, diabetes, asthma.etc… the more vaccines we “give” to people…
Ohh peer reviewed research from the University of British Columbia from their neuroscience department has indicated the potential mechanisms by which certain vaccine adjuvants and ingredients may contribute to autism in CERTAIN people….
BUt no…. A vaccine containing mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum etc…. that could have no effect on someones nervous systems or other systems…. no the anti vaccineers are crazzzzzzzzy
Show me one bit of evidence that shows vaccines cannot cause autism… doesn’t exist… the best you have is some studies saying they found no connection….
that doesn’t mean there isn’t one you fools…. it means what it says… that study found no connection…. its not about doing the same study over.. different methodologies lead to different results… MANY studies and methodologically flawed and are INVALID ni the scientific sense that they do not measure what they are purported to measure…
For instance… Autism is a spectrum disorder…has anybody read the criteria used in the different studies for what they count as “autsism”?
Also, as one poster wisely pointed out… even the government admits that nowhere near the TRue number of adverse events are reported…
Also… many adverse events take TIME to occur… as the wise poster shrewdly pointed out.. these residues build up in the body… everyone reacts differently to toxins and in different time frames… but once a reaction is moved in time from a vaccine, the connection is missed…. despite the fact it may very well have been a major contributor…
FINALLY… Does anybody do a neuroloigcal assessment of your child BEFORE the vaccine?? And there AFTER the vaccine at certain periods to evaluate whether any damage occured?? fuck no lol…. the nurses don’t do it and wouldn’t be qualified anyone… a neurologist would be the one…. doesn’t happen…. so just remember… not all reactions are “clinical” meaning they result in some horrific immediate measurable outcome….. so you could get a shot and your neurons could degenerate slightly causing maybe loss in concentration, focus, IQ perhaps… but it’s minimal… cant diagnose it… let alone connect it to the shot..
I find it much wiser to listen to the minority of professionals who REFUSE the vaccines and their REASONS WHY….you could line up 99.9% of any profession… i still want to hear the .1% that is on the other side….
So here’s a link to a doctor, infectious disease specialist… WHO ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to SHOOT UP HIMSELF OR HIS KIDS>… HE’s being interviewed and is asked why…He clearly states that particular shot (h1n1) is simply too dangerous and not shown to be safe or effective….
but I guess since he on fox news.. can’t be trusted… damn right wing doctor lying to everyone
Fox News – Doctor says H1N1 vaccine is dangerous, toxic ‘adjuncts’ used, product rushed to market
ohh heres another doctor advising against it… ohhh because he read the insert.. hahahhaha
Dr. Roby Mitchell, M.D. (www.drfitt.com) issues a retraction to nurses he originally advised to get the H1N1 flu vaccination.
hmmmm infectious disease expert doctor warns shot is dangerous vs. Paul (for profit) Offit… head of CDC vaccine policy who famously said you could give a child 10 000 vaccines (in one day!!) and be fine…. hahahhahaha
ohh and he has patents for several vaccines and has made 10s of millions…..
but nope…. he just doin it for your safety!!!!
stupid fucking idiots
“I don’t pay hundreds of dollars to pub med”
And no one else does, because it is free to access at http://www.pubmed.gov .
“ohh.. and what about all of the doctors and nurses and immunologists etc that are against vaccines??”
What about them? What is their training, and how many are of them versus the thousands of pediatricians and family doctors that make sure their patients are properly vaccinated. Please provide the verifiable statistical data comparing the two sets of medical care professionals.
“The majority of doctors used to say cigarettes were safe and EFFECTIVE as treatment for some ailments hahahahha… but no… had nothing to do with industry funding…”
Actually that was because they weren’t doctors, they were actors paid by the tobacco companies. You need to learn to tell the difference between scientific studies and advertisements. Stanford School of Medicine has an online tour of tobacco ads. You should check it out. It costs just as much as it does to access the PubMed index.
“Polio mortality and morbidity rates fell dramatically in the preceeding 20 years BEFORE the vaccine was introduced….. so what caused that??”
Really? Here is polio morbidity data from http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
Year…. Rate per 100000 of polio
1912 . . . . 5.5
1920 . . . . 2.2
1925 . . . . 5.3
1930 . . . . 7.5
1935 . . . . 8.5
1940 . . . . 7.4
1945 . . . 10.3
1950 . . . 22.1
1955 . . . 17.6
1960 . . . . 1.8
1965 . . Less than .05
1970 . . Less than .05
1975 . . Less than .05
1980 . . Less than .05
It looks like it actually went up in the 1940s, the vaccine was introduced in 1955. Please provide the verifiable evidence to support your assertions.
“Ever hear of Scarlett fever?? no vaccine for it in this country…”
Yes, it is a strep infection caused by the same bacteria that causes strep throat. There is a virus phage that can turn that bacterial infection into Scarlet Fever, but with antibiotics that really does not happen much. There has never been a Scarlet Fever vaccine, since there is no vaccine for Streptococcus Group A bacteria. One reason is that you cannot get immunity even after having a strep throat, so how do you create a vaccine for that?
“You people really are stupid…”
“stupid fucking idiots”
Why do you think insults are a valid form of evidence? If you have access to scholarly journals from your university, why did you not cite any?
this dr should have his license revoked
I believe all of these articles can be found here:
And that’s all I have to say about that.
You can list them, but you seldom understand them. Indeed, I often find anti-vaxers don’t even read the abstracts! Real scientists know that vaccines sometimes fail. They write articles about how often. Indeed, often the paper contains evidence showing how GOOD the vaccine is.
The reasoning works like Tax Protestors’, Creationists’, and Holocaust Deniers’. Buried in the ‘mainstream’ research are the clues to the truth of the “alternative”. Context? No such thing. Looking at the conclusions of the research? Irrelevant. Some random useful phrase can be quoted? Bingo!
I don’t have time to waste replying to you really, but I decided to look up the first article. The following link makes comments similar to what I’d say anyway, so read up:
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/09/17/another-weak-study-proves-vaccines-cause-autism/
I might look at the rest of the articles when I have time. Something tells me they are going to be dodgy too, though… we’ll see.
The Pediatricians are actually engaged in total crowd think and confused about the science literature. The peer-reviewed literature shows clearly that early adjuvanted vaccines are dangerous. Numerous animal studies show injecting vaccines or aluminum in vaccine relevant amounts to post-natal mice and rats causes brain damage and autoimmune disease. Numerous epidemiological concur, for example for each 1% increase in vaccine compliance, there are associated 680 additional autism and SLI cases regressed across the 50 states. There are no cogent studies showing early adjuvanted vaccines are safe. I prove all this in a survey article below, where I link and cite dozens of peer reviewed articles, and discuss recent safety surveys. See for yourself.
You’re not going to check are you? That’s why the Pediatricians are so confused. Each of them thinks there must be support in the literature. Its total Crowd Think. Go a few posts further to find the explanation of the Pediatricians delusions in terms of the Group Psychology Model of Gustav Le Bon (1895).
I’d be glad to. Please actually cite a journal and not some wackos opinion
Its not an opinion. Its a demonstration. Its not intended to be relied on because I’m smart, its intended to be understood and relied on because you realize its convincing. Its not in a journal because the pediatricians are in crowd think and refuse to consider the evidence. But it cites, and links, dozens of journal articles that the pediatricians are ignoring that show danger. And points out, there are no, zero, cogent articles in the peer-reviewed literature on the subject of safety of early adjuvanted vaccines. If you think I’m wrong, please cite one.
How can the pediatricians be rational if there are no articles to base a claim of safety on that cover a clear danger?
Natphilospopher. If you actually have a demonstration-not a thought, but real experiments with real controls, real measures, real statistics, please submit it to a Journal-I might suggest New England Journal of Medicine, Lancet, Journal of Immunology, Journal of Infectious Disease, scientists are more receptive to being proved wrong than right. We remember the people who proved someone wrong-Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein. Also remember that great claims require great proof.
I’ll remind you that most chronic diseases are diseases of age. You don’t develop arthritis at 60 if your dead at 5, ditto, type II diabetes, glaucoma, hypertension, kidney failure or any other chronic disease.
BTW, I did a quick pubmed search of “adjuvant safety aluminium” and came back with 311 references. I haven’t evaluated all of them but it seems there might be a fair amount of data on the subject. This primarily covers data from the 1980’s forward, I haven’t dug through the stack to find older, perhaps more relevant citations.
I don’t have any experiments personally, its a survey article. Check it out. I cited and linked more than two dozen peer-reviewed mainstream journal papers showing its dangerous, and cite the safety surveys none of which cite these papers or provide any other papers arguing its safe. There are no papers AFAIK in the peer-reviewed literature that examine early adjuvanted vaccines and don’t conclude they are dangerous.
In 2002 the National Vaccine Program Office (NVPO) convened an expert group to study safety issues with adjuvants in vaccines. Among their conclusions:
“pervasive uncertainty [from] missing data on pharmocokinetics and toxicities of aluminum injected into humans… There seems to be abundant data concerning risk levels for ingested aluminum, but scant data about risk levels for injected aluminum. The oral minimum risk level, for example, appears to be in the range of 2–60 mg/kg of aluminum per day but there are no comparable data for injected aluminum.”[1]
Since 2002 there is an extensive literature, and its all bad. For a detailed survey:
Natphilosopher, am I correct that you did submit this to peer review, and the journal rejected it? (Sorry if I’m mixing you up with someone else–please do let me know if I am). Typically the journal will give you reasons for why it chooses not to send it out for review–would you mind sharing those with us? And why do you choose not to revise it to correct the flaws and resubmit it, as most of us do in response to critiques of our work?
I submitted it to the Journal of Pediatrics. I posted their rejection letter here: http://whyarethingsthisway.com/
“Because of limited space, we are able to accept <20% of submitted manuscripts. In reaching an editorial decision, the Editors considered the priority for publication, the quality of the manuscript, the novelty of the observation, and appropriateness for our readership."
Ya think a paper that explains why their editorial was wrong in a concise manner, and cites dozens of new mainstream journal articles that show early adjuvanted vaccines are incredibly dangerous, isn't worthy of getting reviewed to see if, maybe, it could be right?
I think the fix is in, or they are in total crowd think. The fact that they won't consider new evidence shows they are in crowd think. Nobody has ever bothered investigating whether early adjuvanted vaccines were deadly, and they don't want to think about it now.
I think you should do a pubmed search. A fellow named Stanely L Hem at Purdue has done research on the elimination and dissolution of Al adjuvants. Mostly in model species-rabbits and dogs, because some experiments involved radioactivity. He looked at absorption and elimination in rabbits, along with a bunch of other work, and finds that they are fairly slowly absorbed (~55% in 28 days for Aluminium Phosphate, ~20% for Al(OH)3. There certainly isn’t a bolus effect, additionally, Al has a fairly high volume of distribution, with a high fraction protein bound, so concentrations aren’t what you might think.
I’ve seen that work. Its discussed if memory serves in Mitkus, which I had reviwed and is now cited. If you look at my survey, you’ll see I cite lots of animal experiments showing brain damage. Slow or fast, there are problems either way.
Simply because you can find a few dozen articles demonstrating that vaccines may be dangerous does not make them so. Jennifer argues the exact same thing with one key difference: her articles are well-vetted and carried out with numerous subjects in each one. Recently an anti-vaccinist cited a plethora of articles claiming to find dangers in vaccines. However, this article: http://angryautie.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-definitive-reference-debunking-vaccine-autism-myth/
does a pretty good job of tearing those apart.
(1) there’s normally an expectation that medical interventions will be proven safe, not that they have to be proven dangerous. Can you and I agree that that expectation has not been met in the case of early vaccines? And that, as long as the Pediatricians are ignoring the risks I point out, for example, as long as the dozens of papers I cite, in fact as whole major fields of investigation into vaccine safety such as injections into infant animal models, have not been reviewed by safety panels, as I point out they haven’t been in the cases I’ve seen, and as long as all this evidence hasn’t been included in documents prepared to help patients “Examine the Evidence”, the parents are not being fully informed. Maybe you and I can agree on this.
(2) I’ve seen that angryautie list. My first reaction to it was, he listed 72 papers that arguably show dangers with vaccines, and zero that arguably show early adjuvanted vaccines are safe. He has given arguements against these papers that might show some of them don’t apply. One still has to worry that his arguments might be wrong, or partial, and that the weight of this list is still rather negative for vaccine safety. It certainly isn’t a net positive. And keep in mind that its a clear logical fallacy to say: because we have 100 papers showing MMR doesn’t cause autism, that means vaccines are safe. You have to deal with all the risks.
(3) The one article of Jennifer I’ve looked at, as I pointed out in comments, her arguments on aluminum were specious. She hasn’t answered my comment on this nor modified the article, which stands as making the false assertion that infants get more aluminum from breast milk than from vaccines. In fact, when you take into account the fact the dietary system flushes 99.75% or so of dietary aluminum, they get hundreds of times more from vaccines. That wasn’t the only error I could point out there. I think her posts state lots of things that when examined turn out to be unjustified and wrong. If you can find any such in my paper, and provide citation or cogent argument, I will thank you for pointing it out and modify the paper. And its worth pointing out as well, that sources you might regard as authoritative, such as the Children’s hospital of Pennsylvania, seem to make some of the same errors. I’m interested in reaching truth, not in appealing to people or institutions regarded as expert.
(4) Most important. I’m not just counting citations. There is a clear and consistent set of ideas. Animal studies indicate early injections of antigens are dangerous, presumably because of critical periods of brain and immune system development. They also indicate early injections of aluminum are toxic. There is also an understanding of why that might be, and how they would interact with antigens to increase danger. Human clinical data, on ASIA and narcolepsy from vaccine, for example, confirms some of these risks. Epidemiological studies confirm the risks, I would argue you see exactly what you might expect from the animal studies. Third world studies, the confounding factors seem to strongly favor vaccines, confirm these risks. And I’m unable to find any cogent evidence in the literature for the safety of early or adjuvanted vaccines. If you know of any, please point it out, preferably in the comment page at http://whyarethingsthisway.com/2014/03/08/example-1-pediatrician-belief-is-opposite-the-published-scientific-evidence-on-early-vaccine-safety/
Just to emphasize this point: its not a priori surprising to me that injecting 100’s of times as much aluminum ( a known neurotoxin) into babies as they get from breast milk, precisely because it inflames the immune system and gets it to produce antibodies that it would normally be too immature to produce, and injecting antigens stimulating immune responses to some of the deadliest diseases in human evolutionary history, many times several at once as would be very unlikely to happen in nature, and doing all this dozens times in the first year of life, starting often at day 1, during which period the brain and immune system are going through a very delicate and complex development process;
well is it surprising to you this might be dangerous? Don’t you think there should be some actual safety studies showing its safe before you decide it is?
Nat, this is excellent, especially #1. I would like to be further in touch with you. My email address is katiecrystal23@yahoo.com and I welcome hearing more of what you have learned.
I grew up in a country where vaccines for MMR and other childhood illnesses such as polio and whooping cough are compulsory by law, and unlike the state of California, no religious belief will get you exempt unless you have an allergy or auto immune disease that makes vaccination medically impossible.
I am not, and do not claim to be a doctor. I am an engineer and scientist but medical science and biology are, for the most part, gibberish to me. I will say two things though:
1. In Belgium (where I grew up) there is no higher instance of autism in children than any other European country, or at least not outside of the usual standard deviation from the mean
2. The instances of child birth have radically reduced in all of the ‘developed west’ since mass immunization has been in place. This is fact and not debatable by any means. It’s just a case of: birth-death = still alive; death/birth% = child mortality rate, end of. Now nobody claiming any form of scientific training would ever argue that this is 100% attributable to vaccinations, just that we can correlate reduction in infection rates to increase in vaccination. Of course, healthier (though as you seem to be based in the US I would argue that in the area you live in this is largely a debatable fact and healthy living seems to have taken a hike along with common sense…) living, better sanitation and better medical knowledge and medication for the illnesses mentioned play their part.
Now I do have some hope in the human cause and therefore believe that ‘total crowd think’ (apart from being appalling grammar) would be incapable of affecting every single paediatrician in every single country in the world ergo the amount of diverse and widespread support of vaccination is in itself an indication that it must be born out of some degree of truth. Also you may wish to reference data that has some clout to equate the level of clout offered up by the good doctor who authored this post.
As a footnote you may also wish to update the psychology you site as our dear friend Gustav Le Bon having lived in 1895 will not have looked upon a globalist world the way we do now.
This is in essence just my two cents and, should you find you disagree, I would gladly look at you argument provided it is structured in such a way as to offer up a coherent and analytical argument. Not just some hysterical indignation please. But I think you may find such an argument hard to mount as have your peers. I shall not refuse you the right to say and indeed believe whatever you wish but I would respectfully request that you allow the rest of us the same right even though we may wish to respectfully disagree with your point of view.
I checked the vaccine schedule in Belgium and it claims the only mandatory vaccine is IPV, so perhaps your recollection is mistaken. They also don’t give Hep B in the first few months, as is done here.
Its easy for the Pediatricians to be in crowd think. They don’t as a general rule survey the scientific literature, and the surveys that have been done, as my post documents, have simply not included almost all the evidence baring on the subject of safety of early adjuvanted vaccines. So whatever your biases, Le Bon is clearly right. I’ve basically given a proof in this case. And as I outlined somewhat, there is a fair amount of understanding, for example from more recent psychological experiments, about why Le Bon is right about the psychology of human crowds.
Lets talk about some of the reasons Autism diagnoses are considered on the rise, shall we?
I have seen in both my professional and personal life, that autistic ‘features’ occur in children who are neglected and abused. And it makes sense, really. If you think about it. If you are neglecting your child to the point of not teaching them ANYTHING, then you are going to see classic signs of ‘autism’ (biting, hitting, head banging, non verbal, poor social skills/interactions.) I have seen first hand with my niece and my nephew, who are both my sisters children, be a prime example of what I am saying here. My sister severely neglected them. She was to busy for them, had her own life to worry about. Never taught them to walk, to talk, colors, numbers, abc’s…nothing. She fed them, but she fed them junk. Literally. She kept them up all hours of the night to run the roads to do things with her friends so their sleep schedules were disturbed (just like a child with autism.) On the surface, when they went in for WCC, she played the loving dotting mother concerned that something was wrong with her childrens development. And the doctors agreed. Of her 6 children, two were diagnosed with autism. She lost custody of all 6 of her children. My nephew is 12 now, and my niece is 8. Since being placed in supportive adoptive they have both had these dx removed from their medical history. When placed in a good home, they have both fully caught up with her peers and are fully developed children. 3 of her 4 other children have varying degrees of spectrum diagnoses. Her oldest, who is 14, was raised by myself and has never been diagnosed with anything. Though their diagnoses have since been reversed, I am telling you this because -THEY- are part of that number. These two children are part of the statistic that makes up the 1 in 32 children. And they are not alone. I do in home support for children and adolescents diagnosed somewhere on the spectrum. Often times I come across a parent of a young child that I can tell is just in a bad situation. That is not having its developmental needs met. We, as parents, CAN developmentally stunt our children. And it’s happening on a REGULAR basis now. Think of the many many accounts of abuse being reported in the news; kids are at risk in their own families for being neglected. And it is more common now then ever since we have young parents who don’t know how to parent, we have parents who either don’t want to parent or just think they are more important then their children. So what am I saying here? I am saying that Autism and similar spectrum diagnosis -are- being misdiagnosed at times. Which accounts for an increased rate of occurrence.
Lets also talk about the fact that Autism and similar Spectrum diagnoses are not made until age 3-4. Even if you see subtle indications early on that your child is not developmentally on task, even if you have concerns at say…a year old. It still isn’t diagnosed until 3-4 years old. Which is when? At the tall end of the mass dosing of vaccinations. The two happen to coincide. That does not equal causation. It equals potential coincidence. I have seen younger babes in my observations through work that show subtle signs as early as a year old, so you know something isn’t quite right, you can predict that perhaps they will be on the spectrum later. Not because of vaccinations that they haven’t even had yet, at a year old, but because of natural causes. But at 4 years old, during the WCC their pediatrician finally says, ok somethines not right here. And so people point their finger at the vaccinations; an easy target to place blame. Which, btw, placing blame isn’t necessary or helpful. (Unless you are one of the above families I referenced, that are developmentally stunting your child.)
And finally. I will say this. And I do not care -what- backlash of response it gets.
How heartless of anyone, as a parent, to say “I would rather my child die from a preventable disease, then risk them developing autism.” And that is exactly what you are saying when you choose to listen to unsupported (or even supported for that matter, I don’t care WHY you believe it) evidence that Autism is caused by vaccines, so you say to yourself “I will not vaccinate my children against the barrage of diseases that they will encounter in their life, and that might kill them, in order to avoid that risk.” That is selfish of you; because let me tell you, these diseases are dangerous, they are deadly (especially pertussis in newborns/infants,) they are occurring much more frequently now, then ever before, because people are refusing to vaccinate, and they DO kill.
Dear Big Pharma: I told people vaccines cause autism and that consuming Pop-Rocks and cola at the same time will cause stomachs to rupture. As our agreement was to pay based on nonsense Americans will believe, I request 50% of our agreed price. Respectfully, Agent 666
Reblogged this on visiblycynical and commented:
Vaccination: Part Four
Jennifer,
Keep up the good work!! I can’t even bring myself to read through all of these anti-vac comments, they just make me sick. I’m so thankful someone is taking time to thoughtfully and respectfully respond with actual data!
Thanks for fighting the good fight!
actual data…. yes she replied with actual data… her best -> not a whiff of a hint of a whisper of a correlation between vaccines and autism
not a hint a of a wiff or a whisper… damn.. shits scientific…
ohh I took advaced research and statistics(94)… advanced abnormal psychology(89)(purely about the DSM V and to a lesser extents it’s history and predessors with particular emphasis on DSM IV-R as it was the most recent.) cognitive psychology(92)(looked a lot at memory and perception–which is pertinent because the perceptions of everyone, pro and anti vaccine are ridiculous… people are truly dumb in so many ways… many people oppose it and for entirely idiotic reasons.. but thank god we have a right to not be coerced… i see it like getting lucky… good choice bad reasons… but the pro side is the WORST.. by a lot…wouldn’t you want to see evidence.. true evidence.. this shot is ACTUALLY safe and effective.. in real terms. i defy you to show me studies demonstrating this unequivocally….. nobody will say vaccines are perfectly safe, in fact the common types of adverse events are listed in the monograph or drug insert sheet in the box the drugs come in… opens up quite big with tiny writing… clearly states encephalities, guionne burre, seizures, anaphylactic shock, etc… and NOBODY will claim under full commercial liability that vaccines are effective… they give a rate generally but the research is laughable at how they calculate it, in no way credible…. so you people are stupid who ‘comply’… get this shot.. with known carcinogens/ neurotoxins– formaldehyde, mercury etc—- gov’t won’t guarantee it to prevent the disease.. in fact as others incredibly pointed out… they believe if i dont get the shot, im somehow risking even those who did get the shot, in some unelucidated way… ok so even if you get the shot youre still at risk… but then there’s a warning that you may be seriously injured as a result to a reaction to this shot…. and then you are told you cannot actually sue to manufactorer of the shot… you may only go through a government compensation court…. haha fuck you guys are dumb as horse shit) educational psychology (89) health psychology (91)etc.. Forensic Science with courses in chemistry(86), microbiology(93), cell biology(92), anatomy(94) & physiology(90), genetics(89), immunology(91) biochemisty(88) organic chemistry(93)etc… ohh a really great forensic course was on the history of prison systems and prisoners…. crazy shit… nuremburg code… if they don’t CLEARLY state all these serious risks to you… people injecting that garbage are breaking international law… you MUST give people the true risks…. no lying and saying ohh its totally safe… instead they say side effects are rare.. yet won’t tell you real numbers… instead bullshit “estimates” by the company itself not the actual government numbers which they themselves estimate to be only 1-10% of actual adverse events….
ohh the polio vaccine was infected with various viruses from the green rhesus monkey kidney tissue used in its preparations… one in particular… administered to likely 10s if not 100s of millions of people… called SV-40… simian virus 40… has been shown in multiple studies to cause different types of cancers… that was just one virus…
I understand genetics and biochemistry… any competent scienst will explain we cant guarantee there wont be viruses and the way dna works, these things can transfer between species.. its fucking crazy to inject these animal tissues into your blood…instead of taken in through your stomach… you idiots… the best they can say is the chances are low or unlikely or some bullshit…. look at history you fools
I’m just sorry you all are so dumb… I truly feel sorry for you… I feel sorry for the world because if these idiots had their way they’d put us in camps or some shit for refusing.. or just have people held down and injected because its for “the greater good”
Perhaps a jail sentence for distributing “anti-vaccine propaganda”… no but that would be obvious… ad hominems attacks saying they are illogical, immoral, reckless, unintelligent etc… would be a better tactic right…
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